Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: LSE-SEI Supervision relations (ESTj & ISFp)

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    854
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default LSE-SEI Supervision relations (ESTj & ISFp)

    (not sure if this belongs in Delta but I am posting it here anyway since the question is mainly posed at LSE)

    LSE:

    How do you experience this type? I have seen at least 3 long term romantic relationships between SEI and LSE, and have noticed many life long friendships of these two types.

    Friendships seem very close and have little trouble remaining this way, although at times the SEI will make negative comments about LSE behavior behind their back. I have never seen LSE talk about SEI in this way.

    Of the three romantic relationships it was the SEIs who eventually broke it off, and the LSEs have taken this very hard. It seems like they just don't get why it didn't work, and they hold on to this for a long time.

    Does anyone have any insight about this relationship pairing that they are willing to share?
    EII 4w5

    so/sx (?)

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    USA.
    TIM
    INTj
    Posts
    4,497
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Makes sense, all your observations.

    Personally I have not seen an ESTj ISFp supervisory relation but it's one of the relations I can most easily visualize.

  3. #3
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I have some experience here........



    How do you experience this type? I have seen at least 3 long term romantic relationships between SEI and LSE, and have noticed many life long friendships of these two types.
    In generally they seem quite cute, feminine, caring, and in need of logical and productive assistance. I have said numerous times, "man, she would be a great person to be in a relationship with", although prior to socionics. There is a great deal of superficial attraction, and appearance of chemistry.

    Friendships seem very close and have little trouble remaining this way, although at times the SEI will make negative comments about LSE behavior behind their back. I have never seen LSE talk about SEI in this way.
    It is easy to be close, because I generally do understand ISFps pretty well. One of my closest relationships is with an SEI. We both ponder intuition and religion and other things. They are flexible and generally don't seem to cause trouble, and protect my week emotional and relational areas fairly well. They are not often over the top with Fe, or they at least are nicely aware of my own mood well enough to make sure things don't get out of control in my presence.

    Of the three romantic relationships it was the SEIs who eventually broke it off, and the LSEs have taken this very hard. It seems like they just don't get why it didn't work, and they hold on to this for a long time.
    This is a very good thing to observe, it will help you understand socionics and people better.

    Why it sputtered out is because (I have seen this with myself and with an ESE), bluntly, the LSE and ESE are rational. They are predisposed to consistent relations. This eventually wears on the SEI - and it is often nothing really "rational", there are no "rational" reasons behind why they get bored, they just do. It is because they need more change and just a different kind of relationship. Why the ESXj takes it so hard is because they want and long for an IJ type. The ESXjs feel like nothing is wrong because they just don't realize that anything is wrong. Simply by being who they are, this slowly turns off the SEI, because the SEI needs Ne. Someone who is so consistent, as ESXjs eventually move towards, bothers the SEI, because the SEI feels like they are getting stagnated and losing "who they are", so they need to find themselves somewhere else.

    From the end of a marriage that I witnessed between SEI and ESE, the ESE took it horribly, because the SEI became sexually dissatisfied and cheated. The SEI was not happy with it, but, it just got so bored with how things were going. Having an EJ caregiver and an IP caregiver is strange, because both want to take care of the other, and there is no one who genuinely needs it or appreciates it, like an infantile does. So in this case, the ESE thought it really was doing its job - because things were consistent and steady, and that is good. That is what its dual, an IJ, is looking for. But the SEI is looking for an EP static, not an IJ static.

    There can often be attraction based on morals or beliefs or physical appearance, but in the end there is much more than that, there has to be raw compatibility and life alignment. In the marriage I described, the ESE was giving adequate space to the SEI, and the ESE thought was doing things right, because, for an LII, that would be what it wants. However, the LII would be much more receptive to care giving ways.... towards the end of the marriage, the SEI made remarks like "(The ESE) just got colder over the years...", and what that really had to do with was the ESE feeling like the SEI did not need it's "care", so it stopped giving it. Later, the ESE ran into an LII, and seeing someone who so greatly needed their natural ways, it was a great match.

    In much the same way, the SEI started looking for someone to take care of, because the ESE, who was very settled, just didn't need them that much.


    In this way, I can see an SEI being attracted to LSE's nobler qualities or stability, but ultimately being turned off in the long run because the LSE is not someone who needs (to be "taken care of in a caregiver way") very much, if at all.

    (note: I see this happening with a double ESE couple... they are very nice, and seem like a pleasant couple, and may stick together ethically, but it seems to foreshadow a lack of success, unless each one keeps rotating into and out of playing the role of their dual)


    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


    Personally, there is usually a general attraction to ISFps, because they take care of themselves pretty well, and like I said, they can be really feminine, which is attractive to me. So there is a lot of initial "green lights". But over time, their alpha-ness and focus more on immediate happiness and need of Ne/weak Ni/ lack of direction seems to get odd. I see them as "stagnating" or needing help from me that I don't really know how to give. We are both looking for the same thing and neither one of us really has it.

    ISFps generally make great discussion partners because we both approach relationships in a similar caregiver way, so to say, and they make good and easy conversation about anything. You can always just talk with them. But ultimately they don't have the substance I want, and they don't quite have the same outlook on life as, say, EIIs.

    ISFps seem to "appreciate" my advice, but they don't really ever use it, and don't really seem to be too concerned with actually being efficient about getting somewhere. I feel like supervising them is like..... being a father, and them being children, and I'm saying "do something useful with your life, pick a job that is important and matters", but they just don't really get it, and want to be artists or musicians or just some other..... 'go-nowhere' sort of job. They seem pretty bad with money in general.

    My ultimate conclusion about the type is that they are great friends for me. But they lack the seriousness, rationality, stableness, and need of me caring for them that EIIs automatically have, so in that way they seem unfulfilling as real, long term partners. They just seem like children, basically. I feel responsible to take care of children somewhat, but I know I need a real adult, a woman, to be in a relationship with. (Consider this from an alpha vs delta perspective, not anything personal against the type).
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    854
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    I have some experience here........



    How do you experience this type? I have seen at least 3 long term romantic relationships between SEI and LSE, and have noticed many life long friendships of these two types.
    In generally they seem quite cute, feminine, caring, and in need of logical and productive assistance. I have said numerous times, "man, she would be a great person to be in a relationship with", although prior to socionics. There is a great deal of superficial attraction, and appearance of chemistry.

    Friendships seem very close and have little trouble remaining this way, although at times the SEI will make negative comments about LSE behavior behind their back. I have never seen LSE talk about SEI in this way.
    It is easy to be close, because I generally do understand ISFps pretty well. One of my closest relationships is with an SEI. We both ponder intuition and religion and other things. They are flexible and generally don't seem to cause trouble, and protect my week emotional and relational areas fairly well. They are not often over the top with Fe, or they at least are nicely aware of my own mood well enough to make sure things don't get out of control in my presence.

    Of the three romantic relationships it was the SEIs who eventually broke it off, and the LSEs have taken this very hard. It seems like they just don't get why it didn't work, and they hold on to this for a long time.
    This is a very good thing to observe, it will help you understand socionics and people better.

    Why it sputtered out is because (I have seen this with myself and with an ESE), bluntly, the LSE and ESE are rational. They are predisposed to consistent relations. This eventually wears on the SEI - and it is often nothing really "rational", there are no "rational" reasons behind why they get bored, they just do. It is because they need more change and just a different kind of relationship. Why the ESXj takes it so hard is because they want and long for an IJ type. The ESXjs feel like nothing is wrong because they just don't realize that anything is wrong. Simply by being who they are, this slowly turns off the SEI, because the SEI needs Ne. Someone who is so consistent, as ESXjs eventually move towards, bothers the SEI, because the SEI feels like they are getting stagnated and losing "who they are", so they need to find themselves somewhere else.

    From the end of a marriage that I witnessed between SEI and ESE, the ESE took it horribly, because the SEI became sexually dissatisfied and cheated. The SEI was not happy with it, but, it just got so bored with how things were going. Having an EJ caregiver and an IP caregiver is strange, because both want to take care of the other, and there is no one who genuinely needs it or appreciates it, like an infantile does. So in this case, the ESE thought it really was doing its job - because things were consistent and steady, and that is good. That is what its dual, an IJ, is looking for. But the SEI is looking for an EP static, not an IJ static.

    There can often be attraction based on morals or beliefs or physical appearance, but in the end there is much more than that, there has to be raw compatibility and life alignment. In the marriage I described, the ESE was giving adequate space to the SEI, and the ESE thought was doing things right, because, for an LII, that would be what it wants. However, the LII would be much more receptive to care giving ways.... towards the end of the marriage, the SEI made remarks like "(The ESE) just got colder over the years...", and what that really had to do with was the ESE feeling like the SEI did not need it's "care", so it stopped giving it. Later, the ESE ran into an LII, and seeing someone who so greatly needed their natural ways, it was a great match.

    In much the same way, the SEI started looking for someone to take care of, because the ESE, who was very settled, just didn't need them that much.


    In this way, I can see an SEI being attracted to LSE's nobler qualities or stability, but ultimately being turned off in the long run because the LSE is not someone who needs (to be "taken care of in a caregiver way") very much, if at all.

    (note: I see this happening with a double ESE couple... they are very nice, and seem like a pleasant couple, and may stick together ethically, but it seems to foreshadow a lack of success, unless each one keeps rotating into and out of playing the role of their dual)


    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


    Personally, there is usually a general attraction to ISFps, because they take care of themselves pretty well, and like I said, they can be really feminine, which is attractive to me. So there is a lot of initial "green lights". But over time, their alpha-ness and focus more on immediate happiness and need of Ne/weak Ni/ lack of direction seems to get odd. I see them as "stagnating" or needing help from me that I don't really know how to give. We are both looking for the same thing and neither one of us really has it.

    ISFps generally make great discussion partners because we both approach relationships in a similar caregiver way, so to say, and they make good and easy conversation about anything. You can always just talk with them. But ultimately they don't have the substance I want, and they don't quite have the same outlook on life as, say, EIIs.

    ISFps seem to "appreciate" my advice, but they don't really ever use it, and don't really seem to be too concerned with actually being efficient about getting somewhere. I feel like supervising them is like..... being a father, and them being children, and I'm saying "do something useful with your life, pick a job that is important and matters", but they just don't really get it, and want to be artists or musicians or just some other..... 'go-nowhere' sort of job. They seem pretty bad with money in general.

    My ultimate conclusion about the type is that they are great friends for me. But they lack the seriousness, rationality, stableness, and need of me caring for them that EIIs automatically have, so in that way they seem unfulfilling as real, long term partners. They just seem like children, basically. I feel responsible to take care of children somewhat, but I know I need a real adult, a woman, to be in a relationship with. (Consider this from an alpha vs delta perspective, not anything personal against the type).
    Thank you for all this.
    EII 4w5

    so/sx (?)

  5. #5
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    They just seem like children, basically. I feel responsible to take care of children somewhat, but I know I need a real adult, a woman, to be in a relationship with.
    (The odd thing is that EIIs seem infinitely more mature and infinitely more delicate, simultaneously. I suppose you could say I want to be a "man" to such a "woman" - if that makes any sense. Someone I want to protect, yet also, someone admirable enough to cater to and be worthy of protection. And most importantly, someone who seems stable enough to give me the kind of relationship I crave)
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  6. #6
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,321
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP

    Why it sputtered out is because (I have seen this with myself and with an ESE), bluntly, the LSE and ESE are rational. They are predisposed to consistent relations. This eventually wears on the SEI - and it is often nothing really "rational", there are no "rational" reasons behind why they get bored, they just do. It is because they need more change and just a different kind of relationship. Why the ESXj takes it so hard is because they want and long for an IJ type. The ESXjs feel like nothing is wrong because they just don't realize that anything is wrong. Simply by being who they are, this slowly turns off the SEI, because the SEI needs Ne. Someone who is so consistent, as ESXjs eventually move towards, bothers the SEI, because the SEI feels like they are getting stagnated and losing "who they are", so they need to find themselves somewhere else.
    This is interesting. My SEI friend is married to a female EII. I think what I bolded is true for him (even though he's not married to ESE). The EII is rational and in some ways just not playful enough or maybe too consistent for him. They will stay together but there are ways in which I sense that he searches elsewhere to find himself because he loses himself with the EII. It's kind of sad but on the other hand, we aren't all lucky enough to find our duals. And we do the best we can with what we've got. Anyway, I found your analysis of SEIs to make perfect sense, given your type.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  7. #7
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Years of witnessing and analyzing failed relationships with one SEI must produce some sort of a benefit.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  8. #8
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,321
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    Years of witnessing and analyzing failed relationships with one SEI must produce some sort of a benefit.
    Sorry about that. But it sounds like you see more clearly now and that's worth a lot. I wish you luck finding an EII.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  9. #9
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    (For the record: the SEI is a very close friend, and seeing what he went through was at least very informative. He has wished of me that I do not make the same mistakes he has, so I intend not to. Socionics helps a lot in that way)
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    854
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Oh man. Yet again! Another LSE-SEI relationship. LSE-Te and SEI-Fe to be exact.

    Does the LSE find the supervisor position to be something they enjoy more than other types would? Maybe they confuse "helping" their supervisee with duality because in a dual relationship they would be caregiver? I don't get it otherwise. I have seen the particular LSE in question repeat this now three times with SEI. Two other male LSEs I know have been with SEI girls, with at least one long term relationship each. . . also one girl LSE with male SEI now that I think about it.

    Sorry to bring it up again if no one cares abou this thread anymore, but it is just strange. It seems to happen more often than other supervisory relationships I have observed.
    EII 4w5

    so/sx (?)

  11. #11
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I feel comfortable around SEIs, I admit. They do seem harmless, and also cute, feminine. Might take better care of themselves than INFjs, in an Si/makeup-y kind of sense.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    854
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    I feel comfortable around SEIs, I admit. They do seem harmless, and also cute, feminine. Might take better care of themselves than INFjs, in an Si/makeup-y kind of sense.
    I knew it! *Thank you for being honest.* We are too frazzled for you guys. This duality thing is crap! We should all just stick to the opposite of the same N or S function like that guy Keirsy says: S with their "opposite" S type and N with their "opposite" N type.
    Last edited by Christy B; 04-09-2008 at 07:14 AM.
    EII 4w5

    so/sx (?)

  13. #13
    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Chatbox
    TIM
    SEI, 9
    Posts
    5,268
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ;270316
    I have some experience here........
    Why it sputtered out is because (I have seen this with myself and with an ESE), bluntly, the LSE and ESE are rational. They are predisposed to consistent relations. This eventually wears on the SEI - and it is often nothing really "rational", there are no "rational" reasons behind why they get bored, they just do. It is because they need more change and just a different kind of relationship. Why the ESXj takes it so hard is because they want and long for an IJ type. The ESXjs feel like nothing is wrong because they just don't realize that anything is wrong. Simply by being who they are, this slowly turns off the SEI, because the SEI needs Ne. Someone who is so consistent, as ESXjs eventually move towards, bothers the SEI, because the SEI feels like they are getting stagnated and losing "who they are", so they need to find themselves somewhere else.
    In much the same way, the SEI started looking for someone to take care of, because the ESE, who was very settled, just didn't need them that much.

    In this way, I can see an SEI being attracted to LSE's nobler qualities or stability, but ultimately being turned off in the long run because the LSE is not someone who needs (to be "taken care of in a caregiver way") very much, if at all.
    ISFps generally make great discussion partners because we both approach relationships in a similar caregiver way, so to say, and they make good and easy conversation about anything. You can always just talk with them. But ultimately they don't have the substance I want, and they don't quite have the same outlook on life as, say, EIIs.
    ISFps seem to "appreciate" my advice, but they don't really ever use it, and don't really seem to be too concerned with actually being efficient about getting somewhere. I feel like supervising them is like..... being a father, and them being children, and I'm saying "do something useful with your life, pick a job that is important and matters", but they just don't really get it, and want to be artists or musicians or just some other..... 'go-nowhere' sort of job. They seem pretty bad with money in general.
    My ultimate conclusion about the type is that they are great friends for me. But they lack the seriousness, rationality, stableness, and need of me caring for them that EIIs automatically have, so in that way they seem unfulfilling as real, long term partners. They just seem like children, basically. I feel responsible to take care of children somewhat, but I know I need a real adult, a woman, to be in a relationship with. (Consider this from an alpha vs delta perspective, not anything personal against the type).
    You do seem to understand us pretty well. I lived with a ESTj friend for awhile and your description of the relations btwn our types fits really well. I always felt like a little kid around her - I felt that she thought of me as immature and in need of her help ... and what you said confirms it. Re what you said about us not getting your advice ... I think we do 'get' it and appreciate it - I can see that's it's practical and the sensible way to go in terms of stability and that sort of thing ... but I think it's just not that important or appealing to us - the whole making a career plan sort-of thing. It doesn't leave room for spontaneity and opportunities that may come up unexpectedly.

    Being friends (who don't live together) with ESTjs is great though. I feel like I can talk about anything with them. Like you said - good discussion partners.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

  14. #14
    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Chatbox
    TIM
    SEI, 9
    Posts
    5,268
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I know two female ISTp's one wears make up, one doesn't. I know one female ISFp who wears make up. I don't wear make up, but if I was a girl I might do. Does this help
    yeah - that's real illuminating
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •