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Thread: Enneagram type 5w4 description

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    MysticSonic's Avatar
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    Default Enneagram type 5w4 description

    As written by Don Richard Riso and Russ Hudson

    The traits of the Five and those of the Four reinforce each other in many ways. Both Five and Four are withdrawn types: they turn to the inner world of their imagination to defend their egos and to reinforce their sense of self. They both feel that something essential in themselves must be found before they can live their lives completely. Fives lack the confidence to act, and Fours lack a strong, stable sense of identity. Thus, Fives with a Four wing have difficulty connecting with others and staying grounded. People of this subtype are more emotional and introverted than Fives with a Six wing, although paradoxically, they tend to be more sociable than the other subtype. As a result of their Four component, they are also more interested in the personal and intrapsychic. The two types also have some significant differences in their approach. Fives are cerebral, holding experience at arm's length, while Fours internalize everything to intensify their feelings. Despite these differences---or because of them---these two personality types make one of the richest subtypes, combining possibilities for oustanding artistic as well as intellectual achievement. Noteworthy examples of this subtype include Albert Einstein, Werner Heisenburg, Friedrich Nietzsche, Georgia O'Keeffe, John Cage, John Lennon, k. d. lang, Laurie Anderson, James Joyce, Emily Dickinson, Stanley Kubrick, David Lynch, Buster Keaton, Gary Larson, Stephen King, Tim Burton, Clive Barker, Franz Kafka, Umberto Eco, jean-Pual Sartre, Oriana Fallaci, Glenn Gould, Peter Serkin, Hannah Arendt, Kurt Cobain, and Vincent van Gogh.

    In healthy people of this subtype, we find the union of intuition and knowledge, sensitivity and insight, aesthetic appreciate and intellectual endowments. Fives with a Four-wing are likely to be involved in the arts as writers, directors, designers, musicians, composers, choreographers, and so forth. This subtype has been somewhat overlooked in many descriptions of Fives because they do nit fit the stereotype of the academic/scientific Five(the Five with a Six-wing). This subtype is more synthetic in its thinking, pulling things together and seeking out new ways of looking at things. Also, Fives with a Four-wing tend to utilize their imaginations more than the analytic, systematic parts of the mind which are more the domain of the other subtype, If they are involved in science, are drawn to those areas in which there is less emphasis on experimentation and data-collection than on intuition and comprehensive vision. This subtype is particularly aware of---and on the lookout for---the beauty in a mathematical formula, for example. For this subtype, beauty is one of the indications of truth, because the order which beauty represents is a confirmation of the objective rightness of an idea. One of the foremost strengths of healthy Fives with a Four-wing lies precisely in their intuition, since intuitions he,ps them uncover areas of knowledge where their conscious thoughts have not yet ventured. The Four-wing adds a desire to find a unique, personal vision to the curiosity and perceptiveness of the Five, and the result is a propensity to "tinker" with familiar forms until they become something almost unrecognizable. In talented Fives with a Four-wing, this can lead to startling innovations in their chosen fields of endeavor.

    In Average Fives with a Four -wing, the Four-wing adds emotional depth, but causes difficulties in sustaining efforts and in working with others. Fives with a Four-wing are more independent than Fives with a Six-wing and resist having structures and deadlines imposed on them. There can be an off-putting detachment from the environment, both because they involved in their thoughts and because they are introverted and emotionally self-absorbed. Analytic powers may be used to keep people at arm's length rather than to understand them more deeply. Emotionally delicate, people of this subtype can be moody and hypersensitive to criticism, particularly regarding the value of their work or ideas, since this impinges directly upon self-esteem. Both component types tend to withdraw from people and be reclusive. They can be highly creative and imaginative, envisioning alternate realities in great detail, but can get lost in their own cerebral landscapes. The Four-wing gives a propensity to fantasizing, but with the Five with the Four-wing, the subject matters tends toward the surreal and fantastic rather than the romantic. Individuals of this subtype can become highly impractical, spending most of their time reading, playing intellectual games, or specializing in trivia. There is often an attraction to dark, forbidden subject matter or to any way of self-expression which would disturb or upset others. Some Fives with a Four-wing become fascinated with the macabre and the horrific. As they become more impractical and fearful about their possibilities in life, one typical solution is to find emotional solace in various forms of self-indulgence---in alcohol, drugs, or sexual escapades.

    Unhealthy persons of this subtype may fall prey to debilitating depressions yet be disturbed by aggressive impulses. Envy of others mixes with contempt for them; the desire ti isolate themselves from the world mixes with regret that it must be so. Intellectual conflicts make their emotional lives seem hopeless, while their emotional conflicts make intellectual work difficult to sustain. Moreover, if this subtype becomes neurotic, it is one of the most alienated of all the personality types: profoundly hopeless, nihilistic, self-inhibiting, isolated from others, and full of self-hatred. Unhealthy Fives with a Four-wing retreat into a very bleak, minimal existence, attempting to cut off from all needs. The self-rejection and despair of the Four combines with cynical nihilism of the Five, to create a worldview that is relentlessly negative and terrifying. Social isolation, addiction, and chronic depression are common. Suicide is a real possibility.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    machintruc's Avatar
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    Default

    (edited)

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    MysticSonic's Avatar
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    I typed that article out myself. Fucking appreciate it.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    MysticSonic's Avatar
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    Bump
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    UDP's Avatar
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    My chest is swelling with appreciation
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    Not with heartburn?
    lolz.

    @mystic; it's good.

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    Thanks for the description, MysticSonic.

    I'm not sure if it's a shorter version of this text that I have read before on the Internet, but anyway it is a very good one. What is the exact source?

    It it almost totally obvious from this text alone that I am a 5w4 rather than a 5w6, because all the key elements are there, and they are also explained and exemplified better than in most profiles of type 5.

    Of course it is also extremely obvious -- to everyone -- that I am absolutely not a 4w5 or some other version of type 4 or some other type than 5. Only a deluded mind like machintruc's could get such a ridiculous idea.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Yeah, I think 5w4 would go down well for you, Phaedrus.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
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    I'm curious about the 4w5 one. Of course if it were there, then I'd probably say "I'm curious about the 4w3 one," so I could get a clearer view of the entire spectrum

    4w3----4w5----5w4

    Reading this 5w4 one, you can intuit part of the 4w5 one of course, it reminds me of this... (at ~1:53)

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=C-c8_OFwZoY&feature=related
    (hehe, metaphorically tough thing for SLI...? "leap of faith")

    Anyway, the boundary between 4w5 and 5w4 remains unclear to me.
    Last edited by inumbra; 05-09-2008 at 06:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic View Post

    Social isolation, addiction, and chronic depression are common. Suicide is a real possibility.
    Wow, that's depressing.

    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic View Post
    I typed that article out myself. Fucking appreciate it.
    Thanks! I appreciate it!

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    MysticSonic's Avatar
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    lol that was directed at Machintruc's bitching, which he duly edited.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    reyn_til_runa's Avatar
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    i know i've posted this before, but i think instinctual variants serve the purpose of pointing to possible reasons for differences between people of the same basic type/wing.

    here are the five stacks:
    type stackings
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

    Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee

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