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Thread: Famous INTjs (Redux)

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    Default Famous INTjs (Redux)

    I cannot find a Famous INTj thread, so let's see if we can actually make something out of this thread.

    Immanuel Kant


    Maximillien Robespierre


    Al Gore


    Gregory Peck


    Thomas Jefferson
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    I found the INTj typing of Gore on www.socioniko.net. But if you are not convinced that he is an INTj, then do you know of any other high profile contemporary politicians who are?

    ETA: Also do you have any Famous INTjs to add to the list?
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    I think Brian Eno is a INTj, at least from the way he talks about systems and music and such .

    Rick has recently added Robert Oppenheimer, Dustin Hoffman and Robert Fripp (guitarist in the band King Crimson) as INTjs as well.

    (At the Socionics Workshop page, INFj was considered as a type for Jefferson...I guess it's possible :wink: ).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    I think Brian Eno is a INTj, at least from the way he talks about systems and music and such .

    Rick has recently added Robert Oppenheimer, Dustin Hoffman and Robert Fripp (guitarist in the band King Crimson) as INTjs as well.

    (At the Socionics Workshop page, INFj was considered as a type for Jefferson...I guess it's possible :wink: ).
    Possible, but doubtful.
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    I will add pictures later.

    Thabo Mbeki, President of South Africa




    Angela Merkel, chancellor of Germany




    I think INTj is a likely type for Johannes Kepler:




    Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr., historian and member of the Kennedy near-inner circle.




    Prince Charles. I can make a case for his type, but I think that even the wikipedia "biography" or any longer video make it fairly obvious.




    Khieu Samphan, ideological mastermind of the Khmer Rouge




    José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero , Spanish prime minister (or INFj, but I think INTj is more likely)




    Elio di Rupo, leader of the French-speaking Socialist Party in Belgium (if not, ENTp)




    Jerry Seinfeld (the real person, not the character).

    Last edited by silke; 02-20-2015 at 01:50 AM. Reason: updated pictures
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Donald Davidson - Philosopher
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla
    How about some younger people? Singers, actors, TV personalities, athletes, etc. ...
    Why wouldn't you post them anyway? I do not see any reason why not? If you have the name and the mugshot, go for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Quote Originally Posted by Carla
    How about some younger people? Singers, actors, TV personalities, athletes, etc. ...
    Why wouldn't you post them anyway? I do not see any reason why not? If you have the name and the mugshot, go for it.
    I think she's saying she wants u to post them

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    Well if I had them then, I would have posted them then, but I don't. So I'm going to have go hunting for them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Well if I had them then, I would have posted them then, but I don't. So I'm going to have go hunting for them.
    get on it then man... Carla is waiting!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95
    it's very possible i'm the youngest person in this thread

    no other young people coming to mind yet. but among more political people, maybe:

    John Locke, British Empiricists and Social Contract Theorist?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke

    what strikes me as particularly INTj is that in spite of all the political and economic happenings around him (and perhaps opportunity to have done more participation, or speculation) Locke's legacy remembers him overwhelmingly more for his ideas shaped by them.
    Interestingly enough, the most common type I have seen suggested for Locke is ISTp.
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    I think Michelle Williams the actress might be INTj, thought INFj but could go either way I think.

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    To take another stab in the dark (sorry he is not a modern celebrity):


    Baruch Spinoza: One of the forefathers of the Rationalist school of philosophy and often cited as the first modern pantheist.

    Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
    Baruch (or Benedictus) Spinoza is one of the most important philosophers -- and certainly the most radical -- of the early modern period. His thought combines a commitment to Cartesian metaphysical and epistemological principles with elements from ancient Stoicism and medieval Jewish rationalism into a nonetheless highly original system. His extremely naturalistic views on God, the world, the human being and knowledge serve to ground a moral philosophy centered on the control of the passions leading to virtue and happiness.
    Wikipedia
    Spinoza's system imparted order and unity to the tradition of radical thought, offering powerful weapons for prevailing against "received authority." As a youth he first subscribed to Descartes's dualistic belief that body and mind are two separate substances, but later changed his view and asserted that they were not separate, being a single identity. He contended that everything that exists in Nature/Universe is one Reality (substance) and there is only one set of rules governing the whole of the reality which surrounds us and of which we are part. Spinoza viewed God and Nature as two names for the same reality, namely the single substance (meaning "to stand beneath" rather than "matter") that is the basis of the universe and of which all lesser "entities" are actually modes or modifications, that all things are determined by Nature to exist and cause effects, and that the complex chain of cause and effect are only understood in part. That humans presume themselves to have free will, he argues, is a result of their awareness of appetites while being unable to understand the reasons why they want and act as they do.
    Just some random website a biography:
    Baruch Spinoza was born to Portuguese Jews living in exile in Holland, but his life among the Marranos there was often unsettled. Despite an early rabbinical education, he was expelled from the synagogue at Amsterdam for defending heretical opinions in 1656. While engaging privately in serious study of medieval Jewish thought, Cartesian philosophy, and the new science at Rijnburg and the Hague, Spinoza supported himself by grinding optical lenses, an occupation that probably contributed to the consumption that killed him. Private circulation of his philosophical treatises soon earned him a significant reputation throughout Europe, but Spinoza so treasured his intellectual independence that in 1673 he declined the opportunity to teach at Heidelberg, preferring to continue his endeavors alone.

    Spinoza's first published work was a systematic presentation of the philosophy of Descartes, to which he added his own suggestions for its improvement. The Principles of Descartes's Philosophy (1663) contain many of the characteristic elements of his later work, but Spinoza seems to have realized that a full exposition of his own philosophical views would require many years of devoted reflection. In the meantime, he turned his attention briefly to other issues of personal and social importance. The Tractatus Theologico-Politicus (A Theologico-Political Treatise) (1670) is an examination of superficial popular religion and a vigorous critique of the militant Protestantism practiced by Holland's ruling House of Orange. Spinoza disavowed anthropomorphic conceptions of god as both logically and theologically unsound, proposed modern historical-critical methods for biblical interpretation, and defended political toleration of alternative religious practices. Christians and Jews, he argued, could live peaceably together provided that they rose above the petty theological and cultural controversies that divided them.

    Although he published nothing else during his lifetime, metaphysical speculations continued to dominate Spinoza's philosophical reflections, and he struggled to find an appropriate way to present his rationalistic conviction that the universe is a unitary whole. Respect for deductive reasoning and for the precision of the Latin language led Spinoza to express his philosophy in a geometrical form patterned on that employed in Euclid's Elements. Thus, each of the five books of Spinoza's Ethica Ordine Geometrico Demonstrata (Ethics) (1677) comprises a sequence of significant propositions, each of which is deduced from those that have come before, leading back to a small set of self-evident definitions and axioms.

    In Book I Spinoza claimed to demonstrate both the necessary existence and the unitary nature of the unique, single substance that comprises all of reality. Spinoza preferred the designation "Deus sive Natura" ("god or nature") as the most fitting name for this being, and he argued that the its infinite attributes account for every feature of the universe. Book II describes the absolute necessity with which the two attributes best known to us, thought and extension, unfold in the parallel structure that we, with our dual natures, comprehend as the ideas and things with which we are acquainted in ordinary life. This account also provides for the possibility of genuine human knowledge, which must be based ultimately on the coordination of these diverse realms. Spinoza's Tractatus de Intellectus Emendatione (On the Improvement of the Understanding) (1677) provides additional guidance on the epistemological consequences of his metaphysical convictions. Here Spinoza proposed a "practical" method for achieving the best knowledge of which human thinkers are capable.

    Spinoza applied similar principles to human desires and agency in Books III-V of the Ethics, recommending a way of life that acknowledges and appropriates the fundamental consequences of our position in the world as mere modes of the one true being. It would be moral bondage if we were motivated only by causes of which we remain unaware, Spinoza held, so genuine freedom comes only with knowledge of what it is that necessitates our actions. Recognizing the invariable influence of desire over our passionate natures, we then strive for the peace of mind that comes through an impartial attachment to reason. Although such an attitude is not easy to maintain, Spinoza concluded that "All noble things are as difficult as they are rare."
    While none of the bold on their own merit would necessarily make him an LII, on the whole, they at least point to a narrow number of possible types that he could be. He could very well be an ILE, but parts of the bold seem to point to Spinoza at least being -valuing, especially the bit about his propositions "leading back to a small set of self-evident definitions and axioms," which mirrors closely the description of leading-Ti in the LII entry on WikiSocion.
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    Here is one that is kind of a no-brainer as a means to maintain the thread.

    Rene Descartes: The First Modern Philosopher


    I am not really a fan of Descartes as his logic has been repeatedly refuted, torn apart, and decimated time and time again, but his LIIness is still kind of hard to deny. But I am looking through the VIs of Kant, Descartes, and Spinoza for similarities in their depictions. (Incidentally, all of these philosophers belonged to Rationalist school of philosophy, which may be worth looking into for later.) Leibniz (the calculus and polymath guy) was also a Rationalist, however, I am not sure if he was an LII.

    I do need to try and find some LII monarchs and historical rulers for the list though. While LII do enjoy contributing to modeling politics and proper modes of governance, the element is something that somewhat keeps them out of it. But the benefit of finding LII monarchs is that they do not really have a choice as they are simply born into and inherit the power. There are a few monarchs who I would like to find out were LII, but wanting them to be LII does not make them LII anymore than me wanting this paperweight on my desk to be coconut pie make the paperweight into coconut pie.

    ETA: And you other LII slackers out there need to go looking for some people to add. I do not want this thread to be a one-LII show.
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    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Really? Him?

    I may have to challenge whether or not this Pope is an LII, but that will be for later. I do not have the time as of now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Okay, yeah he strikes me more as LSI, especially with his strong attachment to the Roman Catholic Church.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Okay, yeah he strikes me more as LSI, especially with his strong attachment to the Roman Catholic Church.
    That's certainly very possible. We'd have to look at him more closely (wouldn't that be fascinating ).

    Apart from a general impression, one of my reasons for going for LII is that he and his predecessor, who I think was ESE, seemed to have something like a dual relationship -- of course semi-dual can't be ruled out (or EIE for JPII's type).
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Okay, yeah he strikes me more as LSI, especially with his strong :Se: attachment to the Roman Catholic Church.
    Agree.......... ISxj type I would guess. Definitely not INTj.
    Suomea

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    What about this :




    Theodore Kaczynski, the Unabomber
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    That picture of Khieu Samphan wasn't a typical one, only a very recent (and big) one. He got bloated in old age. As a young man, I think ESTp becomes less likely. Here he is, on the left:



    If not INTj, then ISTj imo -- but the thing is, I think that he and Pol Pot made a typical INTj-ENFj political semi-dual couple; with Samphan providing the ideological Ti, but yielding the public leadership to Pol Pot.

    On di Rupo: yeah I don't find it easy to differentiate between INTj and ENTp, either, in his case:

    On Kaczynsky: ok, Sumeoa may well be right that he's a Ni dominant.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Originally Posted by Carla
    How about some younger people? Singers, actors, TV personalities, athletes, etc. ...
    I know a lot, but they are in the Asian type thread in "what's my type?". Don't think you will be interested.

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    in *addition* to Michelle Williams, another actor who is said to be INTj is Cuba Gooding, Jr.

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    John le Carré?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla View Post
    How about some younger people? Singers, actors, TV personalities, athletes, etc. ...

    Hmm, I've just been searching through previous threads and other forums etc., to get suggestions and also possibly inspiration - but unfortunately, basically all the people are dead, old, or been suggested a million times before . It really seems impossible to think of an up-and-coming INTj - can you imagine the process?

    If I see an actor who might be an INTj on TV or in a film, it's because they're 'quiet' or 'logical' etc. in some way, so I just end up thinking they are playing a stereotype etc - it's probably only fairly well established actors that are readily deducable as INTj (i.e. over many films). And musicians are always a pretty miserable lot who are trying to make some point or other - it's fairly easy to find a musician who is probably a INFp, but not a INTj (except some greats who seem to have developed some niche, but you probably already know about them. I thought I typed some athlete as an INTj a while ago, but I can't recall the name...I think he's past it anyway.

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    Oh yes...I think Alan Hansen is a INTj or thereabouts. He's very famous in the UK, though not anywhere else, so combined with my dodging typing skills...oh well. He's a famous football (i.e. soccer) pundit, who is well known for his strange turns of phrase, his style of narration, and his analytical knowledge of the beautiful game etc. You might find some amusing clips on youtube if you are interested.


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    A generalisation of sorts maybe, but I don't think INTj's are the sorts of people who would want the limelight, which appears to be sort of necessary to 'famous' in our society.

    I know INTj's who are fairly successful in what they do, and personally one in particular who is very successful with a kick ass business. But he's definitely not flash or attention grabbing. To look at him you would never guess he's a multi-multi millionaire.

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    i think it might not be as obvious as in ENTps but i think most INTjs would be quite pleased if they were recognized in some way publically. Also.. lots of actors and famous people don't like being famous, rather they do but they also hate it. Many many people in the arts are pleased with a piece of art being successful in communicating something that moves others, but sort of hate the attention it brings, rather the kind of attention or attention from the wrong people.

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    I kicked myself a little for not realizing it sooner. Ed O'Brien of the band Radiohead is probably an INTj.

    I think these pics show Se polr.





    and Ti:


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    A generalisation of sorts maybe, but I don't think INTj's are the sorts of people who would want the limelight, which appears to be sort of necessary to 'famous' in our society.

    I know INTj's who are fairly successful in what they do, and personally one in particular who is very successful with a kick ass business. But he's definitely not flash or attention grabbing. To look at him you would never guess he's a multi-multi millionaire.
    have no clue about successful intjs. you should pm me with a list.

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    Mika Hakkinen, Finnish Formula 1 driver. World Champion 1998 & 99



    M.H. (left) and Michael Schumacher (ISTj)



    Mika Hakkinen crying after he made a big mistake in a race:



    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    Tom Everett Scott




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    Topher Grace




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    How do you, guys, insert pictures?

    I wanted to suggest Carl Jung and Junichiro Koizumi, the former Prime Minister of Japan

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    damn she's schooling us... I think
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    You guys don't know type.
    Then explain why this typing and the others are incorrect. Other than their spine, what other attributes about these choices that make the INTjs or some other type. Connect them to the information elements. Make comparisons or contrasts to another type. If your methods are conclusive and scientifically based, then please demonstrate this. Demonstrate your consistent and accurate typing methods.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik View Post
    Then explain why this typing and the others are incorrect. Other than their spine, what other attributes about these choices that make the INTjs or some other type. Connect them to the information elements. Make comparisons or contrasts to another type. If your methods are conclusive and scientifically based, then please demonstrate this. Demonstrate your consistent and accurate typing methods.
    I concur. I would be willing to buy this spine business if it could be shown to have a direct correlation to type. However, to do that, you have to be able to determine type independently of any physical features. Socionics is, after all, a system of personality types, not physical types. Physical evidence is secondary to psychological evidence.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    You guys don't know type.
    Peter's Online Typing Course - Online Typing Lessons for Everyone!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    That is because the English translation and type descriptions are bad VI is genetic...like looking at twins, it can not be inaccurate.
    There are no excuses. You need to link the VI to the genetic evidence to the Information Elements and types. If the information is in another language, then go back home and find a way to translate it and bring it back, or provide the links to the research. Otherwise, you have nothing. Saying VI has a genetic link does not prove the link between genetic related VI methods are correlated to actual type.

    You've posted over 500 posts within a 2 week time span, more than most members post within 6 months. Yet, you've failed to produce anything of value to bring forward and englighten members. Rod, one of the authors of the socionics book, has been a member since 2007 with 7 posts to his name. There have been plenty of missed opportunities to assist members to understand their type, or to 'spread the word' to the West.

    Think of the hundreds of members who have signed up to discuss socionics who could have been helped during this period of time, but spent all that time groping around trying to figure it out. And here you are, playing 'cat and mouse' games looking like you know all of the mysteries of socionics like some special goddess. I'll appeal to your moral and ethical values, maritsa and say "shame on you".

    It's all BS. You're not worth the time.

  40. #40
    Creepy-cinq

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Let me ask you a question? How can you tell a mouse from a goat?...Isn't that genetics?...If you learned to VI people then you can tell an ISTj from an ISTp and an ESTj from a goat.
    The problem is, maritsa, you've yet to prove that your methodologies are conclusive to ID type. Why is it so hard for you to understand that?

    That's very clear stuff...it needs no explaination...I am working on a bigger study now and hopefully will have results of it soon but in the meanwhile, learn to VI. Shame on you for not looking around...
    I have looked around. And there is nothing. I've even googled your name, and there is very little. Remember, the onus is on YOU to prove your methodologies. You're methodologies are full of shit, and you are too proud to admit it. You'd much rather go down with your ship, than admit you are wrong. And, this is all really funny because, for all of the VI you've done so far on this site, you've backtracked on your initial type ID. It's obvious, it's not even clear for you.

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