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Thread: niffweed and ILIs

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    Default niffweed and ILIs

    Who does niffweed consider to be "real, actual ILIs?" Why does he not consider "phaedrus, dioklecian, jarno, [me], warlord, [or] crazedrat" to be ILI? And why is he so hostile towards us? I believe that this sort of behavior seems very much unlike that of an ILI. It's a shame niffweed has me on his ignore list, and is therefore unwilling to discuss this issue, like a mature adult.
    INTp, ILI Logical subtype

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    Default Re: niffweed and ILIs

    Quote Originally Posted by drd252
    Who does niffweed consider to be "real, actual ILIs?" Why does he not consider "phaedrus, dioklecian, jarno, [me], warlord, [or] crazedrat" to be ILI? And why is he so hostile towards us? I believe that this sort of behavior seems very much unlike that of an ILI. It's a shame niffweed has me on his ignore list, and is therefore unwilling to discuss this issue, like a mature adult.
    yeah it seems he's got me on the ignore list too, guess I've hit a weak spot.

    1) I've met a couple of ILI's in real life. One of them reminded me of Niffweed, because of his big ego. Pretended to be always right, and know the absolute truth. Though he often makes mistakes.

    2) Indeed he's offensive to people. His comments consists mostly of a statement, without an argument. (e.g. You are stupid) This tactic is to make your opponent look weak, without giving them a chance to comment back, since you didn't give arguments that can be attacked.

    3) His recurring humor isn't funny the 500th time. But his probable motivation is to ridiculize the topic starter anyway.

    4) Why he thinks he's the only ILI...Because he doesn't spot the same arrogant behaviour in us?

    5) Is niffweed an ILI. I would say yes, but with a lack of the ILI politeness.

    Normally I hate personal attacks like this, but for an arrogant kid like Niffweed it's a justified exception.

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    i don't know what this is and i don't care.


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    Interesting colors.

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    Yeah, that shit hurt my eyes. At least it's better than the last one where it was vomit green.

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    lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    i don't know what this is and i don't care.
    It is apparently about you ignoring and being hostile to several self claimed ILIs who you don't think are ILIs. And about you not be willing to discuss the matter like an adult. or sumthing.

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    so i surmised.

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    I have doubts about the types of everyone mentioned in this thread, as well as a couple other people who think they're ILI who's types I doubt as well. The only members who I can think of right now who I am very confident are ILI are reyn and Cone. Not that there aren't other ILI's here, I'm just not sure who they are (and/or they didn't come to mind when I tried to think of forum ILI's).

    (Not that niffweed isn't ILI. It is probable that he is, I'm just not totally confident in that.) And no, I'm not trying to start a discussion about anyone's type. Just commenting on your list, drd252.

    Obviously my understanding of ILI's could use some improvement.
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    Well apparently Implied, Reyn, SteveENTj, INTJGuy, BLautritson and Cone who else is there? :wink:

    I don't really care what people think about my type. So far (somewhere) I have been suggested to be ESTp and INFj

    Maybe I just have too hot bod to believed to be INTp
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    he questioned whether i was an ESFp or not too. Although I was pretty offended and pissed off by someone questioning my type without me asking the forum about it- as if i were a child or something- but talking to niffweed afterwards and clarifying a lot of stuff made it a lot better. He's a really nice kid deep down, but just like the rest of you ILIs, you need to give them some time to let them in and understand them. Because he is younger than many of us here too shows that maybe he shows actions and behaviors more typical to an ILI.
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    I honestly just think he's fucking bored.

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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive
    Although I was pretty offended and pissed off by someone questioning my type without me asking the forum about it- as if i were a child or something-
    i really don't understand this kind of reaction. based on my initial observations of you, i didn't think you were SEE, and said so. how is this a crime? would you rather i lied to you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive
    Although I was pretty offended and pissed off by someone questioning my type without me asking the forum about it- as if i were a child or something-
    i really don't understand this kind of reaction. based on my initial observations of you, i didn't think you were SEE, and said so. how is this a crime? would you rather i lied to you?
    Rather not make any diagnoses when you've just observed someone for 5 minutes ...on an internet forum. It's pretty naive to expect to know them.

    Assuming people aren't able to find out their type by themselves is pretty... well i've already said enough for one day.

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    Yeah, that's why I don't ask on here, you're pretty limited on "getting to know someone" when all you see is their text.

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    Default Re: niffweed and ILIs

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    Is niffweed an ILI. I would say yes, but with a lack of the ILI politeness.
    I agree. Almost right from the start, when niffweed joined the forum, I have thought that he really is an ILI. He is slightly different from some other ILIs here, but not too different from me in some respects. I have never had any reason to seriously doubt his ILI-ness, and if he identifies strongly with his own ILI description at wikisocion, he most certainly is an ILI.

    I am also certain that you are an ILI, Jarno, and I agree with niffweed that Jonathan is an ILI. On the types of the other ILI candidates mentioned in the first post in this thread I have no strong opinion. Warlord has so far struck me as rather different from other self-proclaimed ILIs, but maybe he is an ILI too. I have no very strong reason to doubt that his self-typing is correct anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive
    Because he is younger than many of us here too shows that maybe he shows actions and behaviors more typical to an ILI.
    Perhaps this is true; I used to have a major superiority complex, and actively hate on everyone simply for my own amusement.
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    Why does it matter that niffweed does not recognize a group of people as ILI's?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Why does it matter that niffweed does not recognize a group of people as ILI's?
    because i am god.

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    I literally scared my office neighbors by laughing so damn hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive
    Although I was pretty offended and pissed off by someone questioning my type without me asking the forum about it- as if i were a child or something-
    i really don't understand this kind of reaction. based on my initial observations of you, i didn't think you were SEE, and said so. how is this a crime? would you rather i lied to you?
    Rather not make any diagnoses when you've just observed someone for 5 minutes ...on an internet forum. It's pretty naive to expect to know them.

    Assuming people aren't able to find out their type by themselves is pretty... well i've already said enough for one day.
    it's basically what Jarno said- i was like, this kid doesn't even know me? i guess my reaction was because of my interpretation of the criticism of my PoLR ... but you're right, i would'nt have wanted u to lie to me, but that was just my initial, illogical, ridiculous ESFp defensive reaction to my getting shit on...
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    honestly i can't understand why saying that i didn't believe that you were some type would be a Ti hit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    honestly i can't understand why saying that i didn't believe that you were some type would be a Ti hit.
    It is in the fact that because you did not know me, and obviously with me knowing myself better, thinking that you were seeing something in me that made me not an ESFp that I was not aware of. Does that make sense?
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    Did you really just try to imply that ILIs are inherently polite? With Fe PoLR? This thread cracks me up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive
    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    honestly i can't understand why saying that i didn't believe that you were some type would be a Ti hit.
    It is in the fact that because you did not know me, and obviously with me knowing myself better, thinking that you were seeing something in me that made me not an ESFp that I was not aware of. Does that make sense?
    What if he's not questioning your personality, but rather your understanding of Socionics? Which isn't a completely illegitimate thing to do, given some of the shit you've said on this forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive
    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    honestly i can't understand why saying that i didn't believe that you were some type would be a Ti hit.
    It is in the fact that because you did not know me, and obviously with me knowing myself better, thinking that you were seeing something in me that made me not an ESFp that I was not aware of. Does that make sense?
    no. it doesn't make sense at all in the context of a Ti polr hit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive
    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    honestly i can't understand why saying that i didn't believe that you were some type would be a Ti hit.
    It is in the fact that because you did not know me, and obviously with me knowing myself better, thinking that you were seeing something in me that made me not an ESFp that I was not aware of. Does that make sense?
    What if he's not questioning your personality, but rather your understanding of Socionics? Which isn't a completely illegitimate thing to do, given some of the shit you've said on this forum.
    I wouldn't get upset about questioning about logical, theoretical criticism from my dual- that's what they're there for They're able to do it without hitting my PoLR- something which you Alphas should learn a thing or two about in dealing with Gamma SFs if you truly mean to give constructive criticism and not just to be an asshole. I took the typing thing personally, because, well, it's personal- it's my own type.
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    Well you're silly for taking it personally. You obviously know approximately nothing about real Socionics, so you could do with some of niffweed's advice, whether you're completely intellectually insecure or not

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You obviously know approximately nothing about real Socionics
    this is something of an exaggeration. obviously, there have been a number of things that she's posted here about socionics that really don't make any sense. however, i've talked to her, not extensively, via PM/IM/email, and she has effectively demonstrated that she has a basic idea of certain legitimate concepts. how extensive her knowledge really is, i'm not really able to evaluate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive
    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    honestly i can't understand why saying that i didn't believe that you were some type would be a Ti hit.
    It is in the fact that because you did not know me, and obviously with me knowing myself better, thinking that you were seeing something in me that made me not an ESFp that I was not aware of. Does that make sense?
    no. it doesn't make sense at all in the context of a Ti polr hit.
    Yes- you questioned my conclusion to my type. Coming to a conclusion about one's type is in the sense that this quality, this quality, and this quality interact to make you this type. is also used in typing someone such as looking at consistent and enduring behaviors, actions, and beliefs of a person in order to type someone. However, regarding the use of in typing someone, you obviously could not have had enough information about me, and my past in order to come to a conclusion about my type through it. All you had going for it were my posts which are a lousy indicator of type if you ask me. Also, if you did know me fairly well IRL and my past, etc. and you were to question my type through - meaning bringing up past behaviors, actions, mannerisims, etc. to go against my questionable typing, I would not be upset by this according to socionics, but in fact relieved, glad, and amused that you were doing this and would have reacted accordingly. Thus, you were not making an judgment in questioning my type.

    In fact in asking me questions about me and my type were purely based on . Do you do this? What do you think of this? You left your questions with enough open-endedness in order to allow for the true depiction of type without making the questions showing obvious ESFp answers or yes/no responses. Hence, in you questioning my type you were solely shitting on my - cold-harded, analysis of my own person; how each trait works into every other trait resulting in the "system of each type." Does that make better sense?

    BTW, Gilly you're officially on ignore so yap all you want
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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive
    I wouldn't get upset about questioning about logical, theoretical criticism from my dual- that's what they're there for They're able to do it without hitting my PoLR- something which you Alphas should learn a thing or two about in dealing with Gamma SFs if you truly mean to give constructive criticism and not just to be an asshole. I took the typing thing personally, because, well, it's personal- it's my own type.
    Your distinction between types seems arbitrary based upon how people have labeled their type. If Gilly marked himself as a ILI, would you still have said the same thing? Or what if these self-typed ILIs had said the same thing that Gilly did? Let us say probably not. And then what if these self-typed ILIs turned out not to be ILIs? Or what if they are ILIs and say the same thing? Would you claim a Ti-PoLR hit then?

    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive
    Yes- you questioned my conclusion to my type. Coming to a conclusion about one's type is in the sense that this quality, this quality, and this quality interact to make you this type. is also used in typing someone such as looking at consistent and enduring behaviors, actions, and beliefs of a person in order to type someone. However, regarding the use of in typing someone, you obviously could not have had enough information about me, and my past in order to come to a conclusion about my type through it. All you had going for it were my posts which are a lousy indicator of type if you ask me. Also, if you did know me fairly well IRL and my past, etc. and you were to question my type through - meaning bringing up past behaviors, actions, mannerisims, etc. to go against my questionable typing, I would not be upset by this according to socionics, but in fact relieved, glad, and amused that you were doing this and would have reacted accordingly. Thus, you were not making an judgment in questioning my type.

    In fact in asking me questions about me and my type that were purely based on . Do you do this? What do you think of this? With enough open-endedness left in order to allow for the true depiction of type without making the questions obvious ESFp answers or yes/no. Hence, in you questioning my type you were solely shitting on my - cold-harded, analysis of my own person. Does that make better sense?
    Not at all.

    BTW, Gilly you're officially on ignore so yap all you want
    Why? What has he done?
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    Prodded her insecurities, apparently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive

    Yes- you questioned my conclusion to my type. Coming to a conclusion about one's type is in the sense that this quality, this quality, and this quality interact to make you this type. is also used in typing someone such as looking at consistent and enduring behaviors, actions, and beliefs of a person in order to type someone.
    umm... no. your functional interpretations here are overextending what the functions actually do on a massive level. first of all, they don't make any sense. really, at all. try looking at them.

    coming to a conclusion about one's type is Ti in the sense that this quality, this quality, and this quality interact to make you this type.
    try rereading that? if there was an actual concept behind that, it certainly got very badly garbled in translation.



    equally as importantly, you're trying to assign these sort of random attributes to particular functions.

    Ni is also used in typing someone such as looking at consistent and enduring behaviors, actions, and beliefs of a person in order to type someone.
    why would you say this? these are things that ANY type can do. Ni is not exclusive to this at all. Ni, in brief, might be about patterns, beliefs, etc. but Ni is not about recognizing things in other people; Ni types might have a strong sense of understanding long-term patterns in the world around them, or have highly developed moral/philosophical complexes. basically this shows a lack of understanding of what Ni does.


    in short, i really can't make head or tail of what you're talking about.

    BTW, Gilly you're officially on ignore so yap all you want
    i want to say that i agree with almost everything that gilly has said in this thread, and that which i don't i've already taken issue with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Your distinction between types seems arbitrary based upon how people have labeled their type.
    yes. that's another thing. you're taking everybody and treating them based on your prejudices about all the types. this is really an insane way to go about since, as you should be realizing, not everybody is typed correctly.

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    i don't get what you mean by "self-typed." it seems to me that everyone has to accept a less than perfect typing because, in essence, it is impossible to type oneself based on only the self.
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
    i don't get what you mean by "self-typed." it seems to me that everyone has to accept a less than perfect typing because, in essence, it is impossible to type oneself based on only the self.
    Generally this refers to when individuals (often of dubious Socionics knowledge) type themselves and their assessment is taken at value without the general consensus of others to argue the legitimacy of the typing. While there is "less than perfect typing" in all cases, the margin of error should be expected to be higher in the case of individuals who are "self-typed" than those who derived the conclusion of their type through a process of discussion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
    i don't get what you mean by "self-typed." it seems to me that everyone has to accept a less than perfect typing because, in essence, it is impossible to type oneself based on only the self.
    Generally this refers to when individuals (often of dubious Socionics knowledge) type themselves and their assessment is taken at value without the general consensus of others to argue the legitimacy of the typing. While there is "less than perfect typing" in all cases, the margin of error should be expected to be higher in the case of individuals who are "self-typed" than those who derived the conclusion of their type through a process of discussion.
    i see. i thought you meant a solipsist or something.
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive

    Yes- you questioned my conclusion to my type. Coming to a conclusion about one's type is in the sense that this quality, this quality, and this quality interact to make you this type. is also used in typing someone such as looking at consistent and enduring behaviors, actions, and beliefs of a person in order to type someone.
    umm... no. your functional interpretations here are overextending what the functions actually do on a massive level. first of all, they don't make any sense. really, at all. try looking at them.

    coming to a conclusion about one's type is Ti in the sense that this quality, this quality, and this quality interact to make you this type.
    try rereading that? if there was an actual concept behind that, it certainly got very badly garbled in translation.



    equally as importantly, you're trying to assign these sort of random attributes to particular functions.

    Ni is also used in typing someone such as looking at consistent and enduring behaviors, actions, and beliefs of a person in order to type someone.
    why would you say this? these are things that ANY type can do. Ni is not exclusive to this at all. Ni, in brief, might be about patterns, beliefs, etc. but Ni is not about recognizing things in other people; Ni types might have a strong sense of understanding long-term patterns in the world around them, or have highly developed moral/philosophical complexes. basically this shows a lack of understanding of what Ni does.


    in short, i really can't make head or tail of what you're talking about.

    BTW, Gilly you're officially on ignore so yap all you want
    i want to say that i agree with almost everything that gilly has said in this thread, and that which i don't i've already taken issue with.
    my description of the IM elements in typing was merely to show how you hit my PoLR and how and could be used in typing someone. I also was attempting to explain why I was upset by your questioning of my type, which should not have if were are ILI-SEE duals. I still think I'm right after hearing your disagreements so I'll try to clarify what I was trying to say and afterwards if you guys still don't agree please explain why.

    Ok so here's the definition from Wikisocion:

    Introverted logic is generally associated with the ability to recognize logical consistency and correctness, generate and apply classifications and systems, organize systematic and conceptual understanding, see logical connections between things (including logical similarities, differences, and correlations) by means of instinctive feelings of validity, symmetry, and even beauty.

    So in using in typings... say you are faced with a complete stranger (which I basically when you first questioned my self-typing of a SEE) and you have to type them. In asking them questions regarding their personality, it would be most effective to ask open-ended somewhat ambiguous questions in order to "recognize logical consistency and correctness" among the responses to the questions. The more yes/no questions, or obvious questions in which you can answer as a SEE, or any other proclaimed self-typing would would make your own conclusions about this stranger less than 100% true and accurate and your ability to "generate and apply classifications and systems" would be compromised somewhat in trying to classify them as a type based on their answers. So by asking me the open-ended, ambiguous questions you did in attempting to verify my self-typing, you were using . In listening and analyzing my responses to your open-ended questions and seeing the "logical connections between things (including logical similarities, differences, and correlations)" you were thus able to reach your own conclusions about my type through "means of instinctive feelings of validity..." or by both your own knowledge of socionics in theory and also your RL experiences with other SEEs(accounting for the "instinctive feelings").

    Here's the wikisocion definition of :

    Introverted intuition is generally associated with the ability to recognize the unfolding of processes over time (how one event leads to another), have visions of the past and future, develop mental imagery, and see intangible hints of relationships between processes or objects.

    So in typing someone using ... it would be more effective to have had an established relationship with the person of whom you're typing- the longer and more intensive the relationship is, the better. This would be because the more prior knowledge and understanding of the events and situations facing the person you are typing allows the to be more reliable in its "ability to recognize the unfolding of processes over time (how one event leads to another), have visions of the past and future, develop mental imagery..." In me criticizing your questioning of my self-typing ("You don't know me"!), I was thus criticizing in part, your lack of information of my past and thus future behaviors which is obviously useful in typing someone. By applying your knowledge of socionics and types to someone's past behaviors, events, and situations you are able to get a better "mental image" of how they are in the present, and also the future. By creating these connections between past, present, and future behaviors of an individual, you are therefore able to see the consistent behaviors, actions, mannerisms, etc. that can help you determine someone's type. So here's an example- say you're trying to refute me being a SEE not directly to my face, but rather in your mind. Assume that we've been good friends for a while too. Say we're at a bar and some girl who I've had beef with comes up to me, taps me on the shoulder and says "Just so you know- I think you're a bitch." By you seeing how I've acted in past maybe similar confrontations and my beef with this girl through , you can come up with a pretty good idea of how I'm most likely going to react to her tapping me on the shoulder and calling me a bitch. This becomes a stronger prediction when applying your knowledge of socionics- is she a SEE? If she's a SEE she'll probably react _____, but if she's an IEE she may react by ______. This IRL example, would help for you to solidify your conclusion regarding my type. So because all you had going on were my posts and not my accounts or first-hand experience (for the most part) of the events and situations of my past, you would not have been able to generate a "mental image" of how I may react. Although you did have some ideas of how a typical SEE may react, without knowledge of my own unique and specific past behaviors, reactions, situations, etc. you would not have been able to type me as an individual.

    So because you did not have previous knowledge of who or how I am IRL, both in the past and present, you were thus relying on vs. in typing me.
    Do you understand what I'm getting at better?
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  39. #39
    liveandletlive's Avatar
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    [quote="Logos"]
    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive
    I wouldn't get upset about questioning about logical, theoretical criticism from my dual- that's what they're there for They're able to do it without hitting my PoLR- something which you Alphas should learn a thing or two about in dealing with Gamma SFs if you truly mean to give constructive criticism and not just to be an asshole. I took the typing thing personally, because, well, it's personal- it's my own type.
    Your distinction between types seems arbitrary based upon how people have labeled their type. If Gilly marked himself as a ILI, would you still have said the same thing? Or what if these self-typed ILIs had said the same thing that Gilly did? Let us say probably not. And then what if these self-typed ILIs turned out not to be ILIs? Or what if they are ILIs and say the same thing? Would you claim a Ti-PoLR hit then?

    Regardless of what type Gilly was I would have reacted to his comment the same way. Although it should not be of concern to anyone, I blocked Gilly because of several, incessant slammings of my own person and knowledge of socionics which is actually counterproductive. He has never once attempted to clarify what he may perceive as my misunderstandings, but rather wasted both the time it took for him to call me a dumbass (never directly, but you get the idea) and for me to read it. I also have yet to read something of substance or enlightening at all regarding socionics which further contributes to wasting my time. Not to say that I have, but rather it just supports my decision.
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  40. #40
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    niffweed is good!!!
    I dont see the point in argue with nifiweed.... he is good people!

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