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Thread: Planning and time estimations - what functions are involved?

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    Default Planning and time estimations - what functions are involved?

    Assume someone is a project manager in a project that is trying to create a rather massive solution.

    Part 1:
    The project manager has to define a process on how the project will proceed. This involves dividing the work into tasks and subtasks and defining a causal relationship between the tasks (i.e. in what order they have to be done, what can be done concurrently, etc..)

    Question:
    What functions are most relevant / most heavily used dividing the job into tasks, subtasks and creating the process which binds the tasks together?

    Part 2:
    Now the project manager has to estimate how much time it takes to complete each task and subtask in order to calculate a time table and cost estimate for the project.

    Question:
    What functions are most relevant / most heavily used in estimating the time and work effort it takes to do a task?

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    part 1: Ti & Se

    part 2: Te & Ni

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    This is an excellent question, because it challenges us to directly think about the typical Socionics assumption that Ni is somehow involved in mysteriously coming up with time estimates. In actuality, a number of different functions may be involved in the 2nd phase described here, depending on the person who's doing it. But basically, time estimates are usually formed by 1) breaking down a task into small enough units that one can one use past data on how long each micro-task takes; 2) assembling the data on how much each micro-task took in the past; 3) adding together the time amounts.

    The key source of data here is simply how long it took to do something in the past. This information could come from industry data, asking people (e.g., the people assigned to each task), personal memory, or a computer database of past project performance. The fact that this data is about "time" doesn't change the fact that it's really just data, and not really any different from data about measuring or estimating anything else...size or cost, for instance.

    Of course, a person might use Ni to develop a quick estimate, imagine or conceptualize performing the task in order to develop a time estimate, to conceptualize ways in which a task is different from other past tasks, or imagine unusual contingencies. However, for a big multi-person project,a purely intuitive estimate is probably going to be less accurate than a systemmatic estimate based on hard data and just doing the math.

    Actually, if Ni and Te have a role here, it's probably more in the initial phase of conceptualizing what needs to be done and how. Probably if the overall plan was developed primarily with Ti and Se, someone with strong Te and Ni would be able to critique the plan and suggest better, more efficient ways of doing certain things, or even a better conception of what the overall objective should be.

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    It sounds like a lot of hard work to me, so in those kind of circumstances, I would try to leave the work in the hands of an EJ temperament, and lay back in my chair.

    Actually now come to think of it, I always try that.

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    I know I am very good at the 2nd. It's just a natural skill that I have, and most of my friends and some co-workers have come to rely on me for it. I can sometimes even go as far as saying the exact minutes if I train myself. Might be related to the fact that I also have an "internal clock": I can generally tell at every moment what time it is, with an approximation of 3-5 minutes.

    I don't have a natural talent for the first, though. If I take a step back and think about it I could do it, but probably other types are more specialized.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively
    part 1: Ti & Se

    part 2: Te & Ni
    A key word here: process.

    It's all pretty much Te and Ni.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    I know I am very good at the 2nd. It's just a natural skill that I have, and most of my friends and some co-workers have come to rely on me for it. I can sometimes even go as far as saying the exact minutes if I train myself. Might be related to the fact that I also have an "internal clock": I can generally tell at every moment what time it is, with an approximation of 3-5 minutes.
    that is so cool. sometimes I like to guess but I'm usually off by a lot more than 5 minutes. I can really get lost in a task--when I was in college I used to spend hours in the photo darkroom and completely lose track of time. Four hours would pass and I would have missed dinner or something and it usually felt like I had only been in there for maybe 45 minutes.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively
    part 1: Ti & Se

    part 2: Te & Ni
    A key word here: process.

    It's all pretty much Te and Ni.
    *nod head*

    This is the kind of thing I go to my ENTj mom for. She would want me to pick her up at one place and to take her another place, etc. (this is the kind of thing you have to do for parents when they get old), and I'd never be there at the right time, and it would drive her crazy. Finally, I just told her to tell me *what time to leave my house* because I have NO WAY of estimating how long it's going to take me to get anywhere. I have never been late picking her up since.
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    *sigh* Yeah, I suck at those things. It drives my boss crazy b/c he'll walk over to my desk and demand to know how long it'll take me to do something. It's always something detailed that he under-explained too. aaaaahhhh.

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    dunno i still think part one is Ti in that it basically involves creating a system, which i happen to be pretty good at. it's Se in that you've got to figure out who's going to do what.

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    Ugh. The above scenario is precisely why I would suck at being the consummate Project Manager. I glaze over at the very idea of coming up with detailed projections, cost-effectivenesses, subtasking, etc., not to mention Power Pointing all that schematic and presenting it to Upper Middle Management.

    This sounds like a big PoLR hit for me. Weak and unvalued.

    Systems are *really* not my forte.
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    Default Re: Planning and time estimations - what functions are invol

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Assume someone is a project manager in a project that is trying to create a rather massive solution.

    Part 1:
    The project manager has to define a process on how the project will proceed. This involves dividing the work into tasks and subtasks and defining a causal relationship between the tasks (i.e. in what order they have to be done, what can be done concurrently, etc..)

    Part 2:
    Now the project manager has to estimate how much time it takes to complete each task and subtask in order to calculate a time table and cost estimate for the project.
    Part 1 seems Ti to me maybe mixed with some Te. Logical analysis is definitely required. I think I would be quite good at part 1. Seems like part 1 is about adopting the best strategy which I think that ExTps would probably be pretty good at.

    Part 2 seems much more Te. Also has the sound of Ni with all that time talk. I just know I'd do a lot better on part 1.
    Suomea

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    Default Re: Planning and time estimations - what functions are invol

    Quote Originally Posted by Suomea
    Part 1 seems Ti to me maybe mixed with some Te. Logical analysis is definitely required. I think I would be quite good at part 1. Seems like part 1 is about adopting the best strategy which I think that ExTps would probably be pretty good at.

    Part 2 seems much more Te. Also has the sound of Ni with all that time talk. I just know I'd do a lot better on part 1.
    That sounds something like me. I feel pretty confident in part 1. Defining what needs to be done and in which order to reach a goal. However I dislike part 2. I'd much rather just define the tasks and start working. I hate it when I have to put deadlines or price tags on the tasks. Perhaps even dismiss some tasks because of lack of time or money. I'd rather let someone else do that. I just want to solve problems and not worry about whether there is enough time or money left (unless Im the one paying for it )

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    yes I agree the first one seems like primarily Ti and some Te.

    second one does seem like Ni.. maybe creative Ni.

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    I agree with most of what Jonathan said here.

    I don't generally estimate how long it will take to do things... or make any concrete time estimates... I honestly think that concrete estimates of time to complete multi-layered projects is more of an ST thing (when it involves actual implementation).

    My sense of time is more... I get a feeling that at the rate things are going they're going to miss the mark, so I accelerate certain parts of it, to re-adjust it so it will be done in the time I want it to be done. I generally procrastinate most tasks (especially if I don't care about them)... and those ones get done right at the last acceptable time... My point is I'm aware of the rate at which things are moving... and I watch it to make sure it's moving smoothly, so that it will be done on time, making adjustments to the rate when I see that it's off slightly... I very rarely make actual time estimates such as ("X will take exactly 3 days, 10 hours, and 2.5 minutes to accomplish"). I have no idea how long it will take to accomplish most things, nor do I care, I only know it will be done on time. This is why I prefer to be given deadlines or suggest deadlines myself rather than be asked "so, how long will it take to do X, how about Y, Z?" Instead I'll say "I will get you X on Monday, and Y and Z by Friday." To reiterate sort of, the sense of time here is abstract not concrete--I always see ahead what I will be doing... but it is a vague picture... always changing... adapting... consisting of multiple pieces which I move into place over time so that everything is set right at the last minute when I decide to act.

    To add on, I'm rarely punctual about anything. I have a difficult time being on time to anything... because I'm usually immersed in doing something I'd rather do than be somewhere on time... My notion of time is not exacting. If I say I'll be somewhere at 2:00pm for instance, it means I'll be there between 1:45 and 2:15. When I get around to it. If I try to be on time I can be, but I don't usually try to.

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    Default Re: Planning and time estimations - what functions are invol

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by Suomea
    Part 1 seems Ti to me maybe mixed with some Te. Logical analysis is definitely required. I think I would be quite good at part 1. Seems like part 1 is about adopting the best strategy which I think that ExTps would probably be pretty good at.

    Part 2 seems much more Te. Also has the sound of Ni with all that time talk. I just know I'd do a lot better on part 1.
    That sounds something like me. I feel pretty confident in part 1. Defining what needs to be done and in which order to reach a goal. However I dislike part 2. I'd much rather just define the tasks and start working. I hate it when I have to put deadlines or price tags on the tasks. Perhaps even dismiss some tasks because of lack of time or money. I'd rather let someone else do that. I just want to solve problems and not worry about whether there is enough time or money left (unless Im the one paying for it )
    Well, the optimal situation is always one of unbounded maximization. Unfortunately only a few people in this world have such large amounts of money!

    By the way the gift of punctuality that I have can also drive me crazy. Because I don't know anybody that is as punctual as me, not even my ISTj friend, so I always have to wait, bitch and moan. I think one of the few things I'm really intolerant about is people that are late.
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    Default Re: Planning and time estimations - what functions are invol

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    By the way the gift of punctuality that I have can also drive me crazy. Because I don't know anybody that is as punctual as me, not even my ISTj friend, so I always have to wait, bitch and moan. I think one of the few things I'm really intolerant about is people that are late.
    Are you sure you are not an ESTj ...?

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    Default Re: Planning and time estimations - what functions are invol

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    By the way the gift of punctuality that I have can also drive me crazy. Because I don't know anybody that is as punctual as me, not even my ISTj friend, so I always have to wait, bitch and moan. I think one of the few things I'm really intolerant about is people that are late.
    Are you sure you are not an ESTj ...?
    It's unlikely, I am never early to things either, just perfectly punctual.
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    Default Re: Planning and time estimations - what functions are invol

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    I think one of the few things I'm really intolerant about is people that are late.
    Damn. You distolerate meh

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    Default Re: Planning and time estimations - what functions are invol

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    I think one of the few things I'm really intolerant about is people that are late.
    Are you sure that you are European?
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    Default Re: Planning and time estimations - what functions are invol

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    I think one of the few things I'm really intolerant about is people that are late.
    Damn. You distolerate meh
    Eh. I've got friends that are late many times. I just get pissed off until they arrive generally, it's not like I reprimand them.
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    Default Re: Planning and time estimations - what functions are invol

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    I think one of the few things I'm really intolerant about is people that are late.
    Damn. You distolerate meh
    Eh. I've got friends that are late many times. I just get pissed off until they arrive generally, it's not like I reprimand them.
    So you'd wait for me?

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    Default Re: Planning and time estimations - what functions are invol

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    I think one of the few things I'm really intolerant about is people that are late.
    Damn. You distolerate meh
    Eh. I've got friends that are late many times. I just get pissed off until they arrive generally, it's not like I reprimand them.
    So you'd wait for me?
    Sure
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