Childlike types and dependency

[Blaze]

i'm getting my mind around the infantile position driven by the presence of Ne in the go block. i've actually seen 2 of my Ne dominant friends, one an IEE the other an EII both kind of have downfalls into dependency. they both have lost their will for independence. one has become dependent on prescription drugs due to a physical illness, including the fentanyl patch and goes to pain clinic, the other has put close to 100 pounds on her formerly svelte frame and has an array of addictions feeding her including food, shopping, and alcohol. their husbands both manage 95% of what has to be done. in the former case, the husband works, cooks, cleans, pays bills. basically does everything. in the latter case it's the same, and various baby sitters take care of the 3 children. neither woman works. the former is on disability and the latter just doesn't work since her husband is a high earning professional.

i draw attention to this not to judge, but to discuss the link of between these behaviors (and lack thereof) to a desire for being taken care of brought to the extreme. i don't know whether the same would apply to alpha infantiles (perhaps i just don't know of any cases). but i must wonder whether extreme dependency can be the logical outcome of an infantile orientation, if unchecked.

in the first case, the person clearly has fibromyalgia and is sick, but the dependency on opiates has become so severe that i wonder to what degree her symptoms are reflective of the drug dependency. at thanksgiving, she could not so much as clear her dish from the table. in the second case, this person could clearly take greater responsibility whilst her husband works 3 jobs to support her shopping and dining out habits.

has anybody noticed this? could these kinds of examples be one reason why people recoil from the infantile label? is an enabling care-taking person in the life of an infantile always a good thing?

[aka-kitsune]

has anybody noticed this? could these kinds of examples be one reason why people recoil from the infantile label? is an enabling care-taking person in the life of an infantile always a good thing?

This is an interesting topic. This question especially.

I've been noticing things about attraction and relations between what socionics deems "non-ideal" fit types. ie: I've found myself attracted to an IEE, and very clearly have noted occasions where either of us will solicit the other for our optimum "ideal" medium of care. He has often induced me to caregiving (which I seem to automatically provide at times), while I've unconsciously stirred him to aggressor tactics.

Really, though it seems less clear than just that. I think all types relate to others with a combination of all 4 erotic attitudes. In fact, I think all relationships really require that kind of flexibility.

What you are describing seems to be indeed the difficulty with sliding into the comfort zone of infantile behavior. Although, I don't think substance dependence or dependence in general is exclusive to infantiles. To some degree, I think awareness of this tendency might be helpful. There certainly are times when everyone (well, mostly everyone) would like someone else to take care of them. Really, it is tough to always be self-contained.

From my pov, I find I do have a natural tendency to caregive (probably just by way of ), but there definitely is a recoil factor at certain qualities of infantile expectation. ie: I don't want to become the "mommy" in a relationship. I don't want a puppy for a mate. Someone constantly trying to earn my approval would really irk me. I like the idea of flexible roles, but I wonder if most people, like water does, seek their own level in terms of an enabler for their natural behaviors. In this way, I think "ideal fit" isn't always a good thing, and leads to stagnation and complacency.

[Slacker]

I'm an IEE and my husband is an SLI. IMO in a healthy caregiver/infantile relationship, the partners "switch roles" every so often. Like, generally, my husband is the caregiver, but it makes me very happy to sometimes be able to take care of him - to give him some of that back in return.

I stay home and I do the house stuff. I do a pretty good job keeping it up on my own, but if I do have trouble for whatever reason, my husband will help me catch up without complaint. That doesn't happen very often, because I truly like to make him happy and I know he's happy if his environment is taken care of. I feel like he takes care of me in so many ways that maintaining the house isn't that much to ask. He does kind of get things organized for me so it's easier for me to do, though.

So I don't think those are common or "normal" caregiver/infantile relationships by a long shot. If a relationship, or a person in it, is unhealthy, maybe that's the way this particular kind of relationship would get unhealthy.

[Expat]

Gilly suggested the following interpretation:

- Caregivers feel that having someone to take care of addresses doubts as to a higher meaning to their existence (vulnerable Ni), which is why they also tend to have pets

- Infantiles feel that having someone to provide support addresses doubts as to their ability to cope with life's obstacles (vulnerable Se).

[Slacker]

Yeah, that was a very good insight of his.

[UDP]

Gilly suggested the following interpretation:

- Caregivers feel that having someone to take care of addresses doubts as to a higher meaning to their existence (vulnerable Ni), which is why they also tend to have pets

- Infantiles feel that having someone to provide support addresses doubts as to their ability to cope with life's obstacles (vulnerable Se).

[Blaze]

ah good insights all. thank you.

although i mentioned dependency on alcohol/other drugs, food etc, this wasn't meant to be a primary focus. what i'm picking up on more is both of these friends letting their husbands do mostly all the work...."infantile gone to seed" taking infantile impulses to the nth degree and just giving up on any kind of self sufficiency.

i kind of think it can happen, almost like a socionics slide over the continuum and into a personality disorder.

having said that, i know plenty of so-called infantiles that haven't done this at all.

but what's interesting about this is that at one time both of these friends were confident, self sufficient women. the older you get the more weird stuff you see unfolding over time i guess.

but anyway, i do think people recoil from the label partly because of not wanting to be thought of like this. who wants to be thought of as helpless and dependent?

[rockclimber]

who wants to be thought of as helpless and dependent?

certainly not I.

[xyz]

who wants to be thought of as helpless and dependent?

I don't know, I like getting spanked every once in awhile.

[Blaze]

who wants to be thought of as helpless and dependent?

I don't know, I like getting spanked every once in awhile.

giddyap then lol

[UDP]

So many things I could say in this thread.....

[Gilly]

So many things I could say in this thread.....

Gilly suggested the following interpretation:

- Caregivers feel that having someone to take care of addresses doubts as to a higher meaning to their existence (vulnerable Ni), which is why they also tend to have pets

- Infantiles feel that having someone to provide support addresses doubts as to their ability to cope with life's obstacles (vulnerable Se).

You say so many vague, meaningless things and never provide any kind of useful insight. Some kind of Te type you are.

[xyz]

Ohhh snap.

[Gilly]

Well it's the fucking truth. Everything he says is either completely egocentric or vague and pointless. He's probably never made a topic that didn't have to do with typing some girl as his dual, videogame character as his identical (is Squall Lionheart still LSI, UDP? Or does using a hybrid weapon suggest Ne quadra values so Delta ST instead?isgioerjg[iejg[jgw), or blabbering about his completely warped understanding of the types he thinks he is.

I swear I will stop being a dick once I get my lithium upped but until December 19th you guys are going to have to hear me out because if you don't I'm going to hurt someone physically. lol

[xyz]

haha, damn. You sir, gave it to him straight.

[Ms. Kensington]

you guys are going to have to hear me out because if you don't I'm going to hurt someone physically. lol

i can respect that.

[Suomea]

you guys are going to have to hear me out because if you don't I'm going to hurt someone physically. lol

i can respect that.

???...........: )

[misutii]

LOL I love seeing ENTps laying the smack down. Earlier today my ENTp friend was complaining about how microsoft wouldn't upgrade his broken x-box 360 to 1080 something video-tv output related (which is what the newest models have but it's against their "policy" to upgrade) so I suggested he call them back and verbally rape the poor outsourced telephone support guy so he could talk directly to the supervisor with actual power, and then slap him into submission. Suffice to say he agreed that it was a good idea and I got to listen to the conversation and it was fucking awesome lol the microsoft supervisor was practically begging my friend to let him let him let the policy slip this one time and now my friend's xbox is gonna be fixed and upgraded for free and i'm gonna get to play fifa 08 on a 42inch widescreen plasma tv with 1080 output hahaha fucking microsoft

[Mediator Kam]

Can't say he was curved in any true manner, so I concur with above post.

[aka-kitsune]

LOL I love seeing ENTps laying the smack down. Earlier today my ENTp friend was complaining about how microsoft wouldn't upgrade his broken x-box 360 to 1080 something video-tv output related (which is what the newest models have but it's against their "policy" to upgrade) so I suggested he call them back and verbally rape the poor outsourced telephone support guy so he could talk directly to the supervisor with actual power, and then slap him into submission. Suffice to say he agreed that it was a good idea and I got to listen to the conversation and it was fucking awesome lol the microsoft supervisor was practically begging my friend to let him let him let the policy slip this one time and now my friend's xbox is gonna be fixed and upgraded for free and i'm gonna get to play fifa 08 on a 42inch widescreen plasma tv with 1080 output hahaha fucking microsoft

Little bit of ENTPnis envy ya got there??

[misutii]

Little bit of ENTPnis envy ya got there??

what can i say they are admirable ppl, last week i was broke as a bicycle thrown off the empire state building but i really needed a cigarette and my friend, being the compassionate soul he is, couldn't bare to watch me suffer, but he didn't have any money either, so he made his gf buy me a pack... lol true friendship

[Ms. Kensington]

you guys are going to have to hear me out because if you don't I'm going to hurt someone physically. lol

i can respect that.

???...........: )

lol humans have limited resources!

[UDP]

Well it's the fucking truth.

Truth?

Everything he says is either completely egocentric or vague and pointless.

That sure is truth. No opinion there, Gilly. Come on - you live for exaggeration. (see below)

He's probably never made a topic that didn't have to do with typing some girl as his dual, videogame character as his identical (is Squall Lionheart still LSI, UDP?

You take any dirt you can find to make a point.

So what, I tried to type a video game character when I first came go socionics. Do you suppose you knew everything when you first started? How many people have tried to type anime characters here? But you want to use this to prove a point? You're full of it.


You consistently disregard your own inability to type me
INFp
INTj
ENTj
and now what
ISTj?
...yet you pretend like you actually know me well enough to say what I am or am not?
And what was all that bullshit about us being in the same quadra?

[hr:51dd48ee7a]

The "fact" of the matter is, you are making decisions off of bits and peices here on the forum. It is obvious that there is contradictory material about my type, so simply trying to say I do not seem this or that isn't going to do anything. You can say I am INFp, but then what about the people who see me as Se creative? You can say I am LSI, as you just did, but then how does......

Everything he says is either completely egocentric or vague and pointless.

How does that apply to being LSI either?
Are they vague and pointless? I think not.

but

?

Why do you see me as having Se polr, when the majority of the forum sees me as Se creative?

Last time I checked he didn't think you were Se polr.

So what do you think, then, Gilly?

I think you're probably LSI.

You DO think I'm LSI now.


And look at this bullshit you posted before, trying to sound like you actually know something.

UDP, whatever quadra you are in, I'm in it as well. I feel more sure of that than I do anything about my type, except being EP. I don't know why, but I feel like we have something strange in common.

I dunno. I just get a feeling with you. Nothing but a hunch, but it's a pretty fucking strong hunch.

Riding on the whims of whatever you can come up with at present.
Well done, Gilly.

[UDP]

I know I overreacted.

[Blaze]

anyway.....back to infantile.....if anybody has any other insights that is....

[Slacker]

anyway.....back to infantile.....if anybody has any other insights that is....

LOL I don't think we actually got away from infantile behavior there.

[Gilly]

Well it's the fucking truth.

Truth?

Everything he says is either completely egocentric or vague and pointless.

That sure is truth. No opinion there, Gilly. Come on - you live for exaggeration. (see below)

He's probably never made a topic that didn't have to do with typing some girl as his dual, videogame character as his identical (is Squall Lionheart still LSI, UDP?

You take any dirt you can find to make a point.

So what, I tried to type a video game character when I first came go socionics. Do you suppose you knew everything when you first started? How many people have tried to type anime characters here? But you want to use this to prove a point? You're full of it.


You consistently disregard your own inability to type me
INFp
INTj
ENTj
and now what
ISTj?
...yet you pretend like you actually know me well enough to say what I am or am not?
And what was all that bullshit about us being in the same quadra?

[hr:b19a2b49d9]

The "fact" of the matter is, you are making decisions off of bits and peices here on the forum. It is obvious that there is contradictory material about my type, so simply trying to say I do not seem this or that isn't going to do anything. You can say I am INFp, but then what about the people who see me as Se creative? You can say I am LSI, as you just did, but then how does......

Everything he says is either completely egocentric or vague and pointless.

How does that apply to being LSI either?
Are they vague and pointless? I think not.

but

?

Why do you see me as having Se polr, when the majority of the forum sees me as Se creative?

Last time I checked he didn't think you were Se polr.

So what do you think, then, Gilly?

I think you're probably LSI.

You DO think I'm LSI now.


And look at this bullshit you posted before, trying to sound like you actually know something.

UDP, whatever quadra you are in, I'm in it as well. I feel more sure of that than I do anything about my type, except being EP. I don't know why, but I feel like we have something strange in common.

I dunno. I just get a feeling with you. Nothing but a hunch, but it's a pretty fucking strong hunch.

Riding on the whims of whatever you can come up with at present.
Well done, Gilly.

Yes, I exaggerated, but not by much, lol.

I'm not sure I ever made real cases for your being IEI or LIE. They seemed like possibilities. Not any more. Sorry for not knowing you in person.

My inability to type you doesn't make you any less obviously not LSE. I can't pin you down for sure yet, but I can say that I know a few LSEs and you're nothing like them.

I'm not blaming you for typing a video game character, lol. I've done that too. I'm using it as an example of how everything you do revolves around you and what you want to be and how cool and dedicated and hard core you want everyone to think you are. It's plain as fuck. You fool nobody.

As for our similarities, I think it's probably Ti/valuing Fe. That's plenty consistent with my current opinion. Sorry you can't understand the fluctuation of my opinions. There's this thing called "getting more information" that happens, and sometimes you precipitate these changes with all the nonsense you write about yourself. Maybe I should call you a dipshit for changing your type so many times. I'd be in that category too, but remember: you're right there with me.

By the way, this:

The "fact" of the matter is, you are making decisions off of bits and peices here on the forum. It is obvious that there is contradictory material about my type, so simply trying to say I do not seem this or that isn't going to do anything. You can say I am INFp, but then what about the people who see me as Se creative? You can say I am LSI, as you just did, but then how does......

PERFECT example of how you blab and blab and never say anything at all.

I didn't say it had shit to do with you being LSI. Read, you idiot.

[Gilly]

I woke up my roommate with my laughing when UDP suggested that he knew more than me.

UDP I swear I'll stop making fun of you if you don't post here.

[Creepy-bg]

anyway.....back to infantile.....if anybody has any other insights that is....

LOL I don't think we actually got away from infantile behavior there.

[xyz]

anyway.....back to infantile.....if anybody has any other insights that is....

LOL I don't think we actually got away from infantile behavior there.

ZING

[rockclimber]

UDP, you get so defensive at the smallest sign of attack. Why not just let things go?

[Minde]

UDP, you get so defensive at the smallest sign of attack. Why not just let things go?

Yes.

Reacting strongly (or even at all) gives it more importance.

[ScarlettLux]

Read: UDP VALUING