"I didn't tell you b/c I didn't want to hurt your feelings"

[UDP]

It seems I have to actively go out of my way to make people know that I don't like it when people do things like this to me. I would ALWAYS rather know - anything at all - than not know it. It doesn't matter what it is. To me, from my perspective - it is because said individual didn't want to deal with whatever anticipated negative reactions there might be. Like, it is hard to really say if someone is doing it "for my benefit", or for their own "ethical benefit" - they wouldn't want to be the ones responsible for getting me upset, or seeing me get mad, etc.

It seems ethical types make this kind of statement a lot.
It took a few outbursts to get an ESE relative to finally realize that I am not changing in how I deal with things like this - now she complies, and I thank her every time she does. I appreciate it even more because I know, for whatever reason, she has to go out of her way to make a special exception for dealing with me - and I really respect that.


Do you think this says anything about type?
I don't really. If anything it would say I do not value ethics as a reason for withholding information - and because I react negatively to it, I would say I am not an ethical type. It seems ethical types find this line of reasoning to be very important in some of the decisions they make, but it outrightly bothers me.

And yes, I have seen people from all quadras do this -
ESE EIE SEE EII, to name a few


Any comments?

[UDP]

I can see people saying - those are Gamma values
...however I am not so sure. It seems like too easy of an answer.

It might just be a pet peeve of sorts. But I want to see how everyone responds.

[Joy]

An emotive type may simply say it in a way that softens the blow.

[cracka]

"I didn't tell you b/c I didn't want to hurt your feelings"

Also a huuuuuuge pet peeve of mine. ESPECIALLY if later on you find out they'd totally lied to you about something. It's one thing not to say anything, but it's an entirely different thing to lie about it. hahaha, this post actually made me think back and I got pissed off for a sec when I remembered a situation where I absolutely went off on a g/f for this.

[Park]

Do you think this says anything about type?

I don't know, but I do relate.

If anything it would say I do not value ethics as a reason for withholding information - and because I react negatively to it, I would say I am not an ethical type.

I think withholding certain information is often very important for preserving trust, preventing unwanted things from happening ,plans from failing, etc. I think people should be at least a little careful with what they choose to say and what to keep to themselves. They should be selective of the information they give to other people and always think of its possible implications. I do it and I encourage it. But withholding information for the sake of not hurting someone's feelings (as you described) irritates the hell out of me, too.

[Ms. Kensington]

yes i do relate. as with most things I think the type related part would be the reasons why this pisses you off.

[Joy]

"I didn't tell you because I didn't want to hurt your feelings" always sounds like bullshit to me. It's more like "I didn't tell you because I didn't want you to get upset with me" or something of the like.

[Creepy-bg]

ok so how would you people feel about somebody actually saying "I didn't tell you because I didn't want you to get upset with me" or "I didn't tell you because I didn't feel like it"?

[redbaron]

ok so how would you people feel about somebody actually saying "I didn't tell you because I didn't want you to get upset with me" or "I didn't tell you because I didn't feel like it"?

I think it's still a bad reason. If you're in a relationship with someone, you have to be willing to work through these types of things without tip-toeing around each other.

fwiw, I think SEIs do this. (the whole "I didn't tell you b/c I don't want you to get upset with me" thing)

[HollywoodWanderer]

it is because said individual didn't want to deal with whatever anticipated negative reactions there might be. Like, it is hard to really say if someone is doing it "for my benefit", or for their own "ethical benefit" - they wouldn't want to be the ones responsible for getting me upset, or seeing me get mad, etc.

I think it is fairly obvious that the way in which you let someone know something affects the way they respond to the news so I do not see what the problem is. For example, if you let someone take in information slowly so that they can process it rather than bombarding them with too much information at one time you reduce the difficulty in absorbing the knowledge. Also, why do you think concern for oneself and another are mutually exclusive? That seems overly simplistic and sad.

[Joy]

ok so how would you people feel about somebody actually saying "I didn't tell you because I didn't want you to get upset with me" or "I didn't tell you because I didn't feel like it"?

At least then they're being honest about not being honest (rather than them trying to say they were just looking out for my best interests).

It's really not all that much better though... deception is deception. I'm probably more harsh about that sort of thing than I should be, but it's a really big deal to me. Even small lies (not telling the truth counts as a lie as far as I'm concerned) create big issues if it's someone I'm in a relationship with, and whether I'm with the person or not, I don't trust that person anymore. I'll probably never trust that person entirely. If they did it to try to save face, save my trust, or save themselves from me being pissed at them, I will lose a great deal of respect for that person.

[redbaron]

ok so how would you people feel about somebody actually saying "I didn't tell you because I didn't want you to get upset with me" or "I didn't tell you because I didn't feel like it"?

At least then they're being honest about not being honest (rather than them trying to say they were just looking out for my best interests).

It's really not all that much better though... deception is deception. I'm probably more harsh about that sort of thing than I should be, but it's a really big deal to me. Even small lies (not telling the truth counts as a lie as far as I'm concerned) create big issues if it's someone I'm in a relationship with, and whether I'm with the person or not, I don't trust that person anymore. I'll probably never trust that person entirely. If they did it to try to save face, save my trust, or save themselves from me being pissed at them, I will lose a great deal of respect for that person.

I absolutely agree.

[Creepy-bg]

I'd do it just because I didn't want to deal with ur stupid irrational girl anger

[Joy]

And that is one of the reasons why we are not compatible.

[Creepy-bg]

And that is one of the reasons why we are not compatible.

yup

[redbaron]

And that is one of the reasons why we are not compatible.

exactly. BG, you sound just like my SEI friend. Although he hasn't even said it in that many words (and would never) but I know that's what he's thinking. It's so obvious. And that's how he treats his wife too. I suppose she's okay with it (INFj)? Ugh, would drive me crazy. In fact, when I ask his opinion on stuff, if he has a negative opinion, he doesn't even bother to reply (email) but ignores the question! As if I'm that fragile. Give me a break. I wouldn't ask for his opinion if I was only prepared for a positive response. How on earth can we be real friends if he refuses to be honest?

[Joy]

In fact, when I ask his opinion on stuff, if he has a negative opinion, he doesn't even bother to reply (email) but ignores the question! As if I'm that fragile. Give me a break. I wouldn't ask for his opinion if I was only prepared for a positive response. How on earth can we be real friends if he refuses to be honest?

It's not about you. He's most likely just avoiding the unpleasantness of thinking about it long enough to type out a response.

[Blaze]

And that is one of the reasons why we are not compatible.

exactly. BG, you sound just like my SEI friend. Although he hasn't even said it in that many words (and would never) but I know that's what he's thinking. It's so obvious. And that's how he treats his wife too. I suppose she's okay with it (INFj)? Ugh, would drive me crazy. In fact, when I ask his opinion on stuff, if he has a negative opinion, he doesn't even bother to reply (email) but ignores the question! As if I'm that fragile. Give me a break. I wouldn't ask for his opinion if I was only prepared for a positive response. How on earth can we be real friends if he refuses to be honest?

as if!! lol i love that expression.

infp man did this too. then i just said c'mon man, it's me. just tell me i'm not gonna get that upset. if i do get upset then say, "wtf why are you getting upset? it's no big deal." if it is a big deal then we'll deal with it. i'm not gonna run around chasing you with a frying pan or anything like that. *shrugs* he's getting better.

[redbaron]

And that is one of the reasons why we are not compatible.

exactly. BG, you sound just like my SEI friend. Although he hasn't even said it in that many words (and would never) but I know that's what he's thinking. It's so obvious. And that's how he treats his wife too. I suppose she's okay with it (INFj)? Ugh, would drive me crazy. In fact, when I ask his opinion on stuff, if he has a negative opinion, he doesn't even bother to reply (email) but ignores the question! As if I'm that fragile. Give me a break. I wouldn't ask for his opinion if I was only prepared for a positive response. How on earth can we be real friends if he refuses to be honest?

as if!! lol i love that expression.

infp man did this too. then i just said c'mon man, it's me. just tell me i'm not gonna get that upset. if i do get upset then say, "wtf why are you getting upset? it's no big deal." if it is a big deal then we'll deal with it. i'm not gonna run around chasing you with a frying pan or anything like that. *shrugs* he's getting better.

hey blaze, is that you?

[redbaron]

In fact, when I ask his opinion on stuff, if he has a negative opinion, he doesn't even bother to reply (email) but ignores the question! As if I'm that fragile. Give me a break. I wouldn't ask for his opinion if I was only prepared for a positive response. How on earth can we be real friends if he refuses to be honest?

It's not about you. He's most likely just avoiding the unpleasantness of thinking about it long enough to type out a response.

what on earth is so unpleasant about saying "I don't particularly care for that chandelier" ?? Honestly. I mean, I'm not trying to ruin his day by forcing upon him the hefty responsibility of giving a negative opinion. What.ever.

[Creepy-bg]

you pretty much have to get me pissed for me to tell you something that I know is going to get u pissed. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that every little bit of negativity gets hidden and not spoken about. I'm a good judge of whats going to make somebody fly off the handle usually, it's those things i don't like to tell people. If I do tell them i do it in a way that "mellows" the results somewhat... ehh... what i said above was more of a joke (sort of, lets say 50/50 joke )

[Creepy-bg]

In fact, when I ask his opinion on stuff, if he has a negative opinion, he doesn't even bother to reply (email) but ignores the question! As if I'm that fragile. Give me a break. I wouldn't ask for his opinion if I was only prepared for a positive response. How on earth can we be real friends if he refuses to be honest?

It's not about you. He's most likely just avoiding the unpleasantness of thinking about it long enough to type out a response.

what on earth is so unpleasant about saying "I don't particularly care for that chandelier" ?? Honestly. I mean, I'm not trying to ruin his day by forcing upon him the hefty responsibility of giving a negative opinion. What.ever.

oh there's nothing unpleasant about that (although I more likely say "ehhh" instead of being direct, I mean u got to learn to read between the lines somewhat) What I was talking about was more like telling someone "I fucked your sister last night"

[redbaron]

In fact, when I ask his opinion on stuff, if he has a negative opinion, he doesn't even bother to reply (email) but ignores the question! As if I'm that fragile. Give me a break. I wouldn't ask for his opinion if I was only prepared for a positive response. How on earth can we be real friends if he refuses to be honest?

It's not about you. He's most likely just avoiding the unpleasantness of thinking about it long enough to type out a response.

what on earth is so unpleasant about saying "I don't particularly care for that chandelier" ?? Honestly. I mean, I'm not trying to ruin his day by forcing upon him the hefty responsibility of giving a negative opinion. What.ever.

oh there's nothing unpleasant about that (although I more likely say "ehhh" instead of being direct, I mean u got to learn to read between the lines somewhat) What I was talking about was more like telling someone "I fucked your sister last night"

Oh. Okay then. Yeah I asked him a second time and he was like "it's okay, not my taste" which was perfectly acceptable. But I had to ask twice. I think he just didn't want to hurt my feelings, which he didn't. Now if he had done my sister (well, I don't have one, but you know, assuming I had one), yeah that would have been something to consider holding back.

[Blaze]

lol funny.

don't hold back on the big stuff either i say.

[xyz]

Sometimes I have to say this because it seems like EVERYONE is a whiny little bitch when something doesn't make sense or go their way.

Except for Bionicgoat.

[implied]

Sometimes I have to say this because it seems like EVERYONE is a whiny little bitch when something doesn't make sense or go their way.

Except for Bionicgoat.

enemy of the state award!

[Creepy-bg]

And that is one of the reasons why we are not compatible.

exactly. BG, you sound just like my SEI friend. Although he hasn't even said it in that many words (and would never) but I know that's what he's thinking. It's so obvious. And that's how he treats his wife too. I suppose she's okay with it (INFj)? Ugh, would drive me crazy. In fact, when I ask his opinion on stuff, if he has a negative opinion, he doesn't even bother to reply (email) but ignores the question! As if I'm that fragile. Give me a break. I wouldn't ask for his opinion if I was only prepared for a positive response. How on earth can we be real friends if he refuses to be honest?

as if!! lol i love that expression.

infp man did this too. then i just said c'mon man, it's me. just tell me i'm not gonna get that upset. if i do get upset then say, "wtf why are you getting upset? it's no big deal." if it is a big deal then we'll deal with it. i'm not gonna run around chasing you with a frying pan or anything like that. *shrugs* he's getting better.

honestly... after reading Blaz... I mean Sunshine Livelys :wink: response that sounds like something I'd totally enjoy hearing. Like it would be one of those killr warm fuzzy moments to hear. I think in a way that's almost what i'm fishing for by being indirect.... the go-ahead that it's ok to be direct (but it needs to be done in a way like she described, somehow that makes it silly and takes the pressure off) there just might be something to this socionics stuff

although I'd still be careful about telling her about her sister

[redbaron]

And that is one of the reasons why we are not compatible.

exactly. BG, you sound just like my SEI friend. Although he hasn't even said it in that many words (and would never) but I know that's what he's thinking. It's so obvious. And that's how he treats his wife too. I suppose she's okay with it (INFj)? Ugh, would drive me crazy. In fact, when I ask his opinion on stuff, if he has a negative opinion, he doesn't even bother to reply (email) but ignores the question! As if I'm that fragile. Give me a break. I wouldn't ask for his opinion if I was only prepared for a positive response. How on earth can we be real friends if he refuses to be honest?

as if!! lol i love that expression.

infp man did this too. then i just said c'mon man, it's me. just tell me i'm not gonna get that upset. if i do get upset then say, "wtf why are you getting upset? it's no big deal." if it is a big deal then we'll deal with it. i'm not gonna run around chasing you with a frying pan or anything like that. *shrugs* he's getting better.

honestly... after reading Blaz... I mean Sunshine Livelys :wink: response that sounds like something I'd totally enjoy hearing. Like it would be one of those killr warm fuzzy moments to hear. I think in a way that's almost what i'm fishing for by being indirect.... the go-ahead that it's ok to be direct (but it needs to be done in a way like she described, somehow that makes it silly and takes the pressure off) there just might be something to this socionics stuff

although I'd still be careful about telling her about her sister

Yeah, I liked her response too. I can see how that would take the pressure off and lighten things up.

[Kim]

Damn, you guys are black and white. I have withheld information in the past because I did not want to hurt people's feelings and it was the best thing to do at the time. And it was about the person and not about me, Joy. I can't stand the whole honesty for the sake of honesty crap. If it's something that needs to be said because it needs to be dealt with, sure. But if I don't see the reason for hurting someone's feelings, I don't need to reveal things. What's the point.

I have been told things by people that hurt me badly and to this day I don't see the point of telling me. And I have done the same to other people. And the aesthetic value of a chandelier is a bit different than someone's big ears or penis size, if you get my drift.

"I am not going to be with you because your penis/breasts/brain is too small. Here, I am telling you because we always have to tell the truth. But don't shoot yourself now. Everyone needs to be able to deal with all truths, dear. The socion tells us so."

[xyz]

Damn, you guys are black and white. I have withheld information in the past because I did not want to hurt people's feelings and it was the best thing to do at the time. And it was about the person and not about me, Joy. I can't stand the whole honesty for the sake of honesty crap. If it's something that needs to be said because it needs to be dealt with, sure. But if I don't see the reason for hurting someone's feelings, I don't need to reveal things. What's the point.

I have been told things by people that hurt me badly and to this day I don't see the point of telling me. And I have done the same to other people. And the aesthetic value of a chandelier is a bit different than someone's big ears or penis size, if you get my drift.

"I am not going to be with you because your penis/breasts/brain is too small. Here, I am telling you because we always have to tell the truth. But don't shoot yourself now. Everyone needs to be able to deal with all truths, dear. The socion tells us so."

Exactly. There's being honest and there's shit you don't need to say.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Kim]

It could also be that someone told you something about this person and you didn't repeat it to the them.

If my friend's ex tells me that he broke up with her because she is not attractive enough, I sure as hell
won't repeat that to her. Or if I overhear things that I don't repeat. People might find out that later
and for some reason find out that I knew.

I don't think I have an obligation to repeat things like that if I think it causes hurt.

[Ms. Kensington]

sometimes i wonder if it's just the evolved view of an ethical type.. since i had never been able to understand why someone wouldn't tell someone EVERYTHING and be honest for honesty's sake until i became more experienced in relationships (not only romantic).

..im still pretty clueless though

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Kim]

It could also be that someone told you something about this person and you didn't repeat it to the them.

If my friend's ex tells me that he broke up with her because she is not attractive enough, I sure as hell
won't repeat that to her. Or if I overhear things that I don't repeat. People might find out that later
and for some reason find out that I knew.

I don't think I have an obligation to repeat things like that if I think it causes hurt.

Bleh. Of course you don't have to repeat things that do nothing but hurt someone. But, in that scenario, you know, if a friend of mine said, "I just don't understand why so-and-so broke up with me? Did he say anything?" I might say, "Yeah, he said that he's a shallow jerk who wants a girl to drape on his arm like a decoration" or something like that, and she'd know what he said, and she'd hopefully realize that it's not a place she'd want anyway. Asked for further clarification I would certainly tell her. But no, I wouldn't go out of my way to spread things that would be hurtful to someone.

I would, too, since she would most likely find out anyway.

What I meant to say was just that I think it really depends on the scenario.

infp man did this too. then i just said c'mon man, it's me. just tell me i'm not gonna get that upset. if i do get upset then say, "wtf why are you getting upset? it's no big deal." if it is a big deal then we'll deal with it. i'm not gonna run around chasing you with a frying pan or anything like that. *shrugs* he's getting better.

I had to laugh at this because I can see both my ISTp ex and my current bf give me the exact same look and say: "uhm...you just might..."

[mustachio]

honesty is overrated. sometimes people don't want to hear negative stuff. i find that when people withhold info from me it's mainly because a) it's out of my jurisdiction; b) they really care about me; c) they hate my guts and wish me a horrible death. in all cases i'm often better off not knowing. sometimes knowing too much can act like a Pandora's box on future events and even on your psyche and how you perceive things thereafter.

anyway, when people care, they often try to smoothe out things. it's not necessarily condescending or anything. they might be afraid of your reaction and want to keep the relationship peaceful and whatnot. i used to be way too honest until i discovered the profound benefits of lying.

[Joy]

Damn, you guys are black and white. I have withheld information in the past because I did not want to hurt people's feelings and it was the best thing to do at the time. And it was about the person and not about me, Joy. I can't stand the whole honesty for the sake of honesty crap. If it's something that needs to be said because it needs to be dealt with, sure. But if I don't see the reason for hurting someone's feelings, I don't need to reveal things. What's the point.

I have been told things by people that hurt me badly and to this day I don't see the point of telling me. And I have done the same to other people. And the aesthetic value of a chandelier is a bit different than someone's big ears or penis size, if you get my drift.

"I am not going to be with you because your penis/breasts/brain is too small. Here, I am telling you because we always have to tell the truth. But don't shoot yourself now. Everyone needs to be able to deal with all truths, dear. The socion tells us so."

I've not said things that didn't need to be said for the sake of sparing someone's feelings. When my sister's car got broken into and her shit got stolen, she was like "I don't think I'm cut out to live in the city" and I wanted to say "well obviously not if you leave valuable shit in plain sight in your car overnight", but I didn't. Why? Because she's sensitive. I never intended to say that you should be harsh or critical with everyone... However, I want others to treat me like that. You have to take people's temperaments (not the socionics term) into account when you're dealing with them.

That's not what this thread is about though, is it?

And just to clarify, if someone were to tell me...

• I didn't tell you because I didn't think it was important.
• I didn't tell you because *insert an "ethically" logical reason here, and not because they didn't want me to be pissed at them or be in a bad mood*
• I didn't tell you because it didn't cross my mind.
• I didn't tell you because someone had told me that information in confidence.
• Etc.

Then that's a different story.

[Kim]

"I didn't tell you because I didn't want to hurt your feelings" always sounds like bullshit to me. It's more like "I didn't tell you because I didn't want you to get upset with me" or something of the like.

And then there is the topic.

I thought that IS what we are talking about. And you indicated above that you don't buy it when people say that the reason they didn't say something was to spare someone's feeling..

I'm confused...

[Danielle]

Whatever happened, if you find yourself saying, "I didn't tell you because. . ." you've screwed up somewhere along the line.

I agree that this is the case in most situations, although I think Kim has a point as well. But usually if you say it, they've found out. So you either should have anticipated that and found a way to tell them, or you should have resolved whatever the issue was so it wouldn't be a problem or you should have made sure it could never come up.

An example from my life. My brother is the budget person in our family. He's very conscious of what is being spent and how, and he's been known to lecture on it a time or two. He's also always there to bail people out when they're in trouble or when they're trying to start over. But he tries to keep real strict track of everything that's going on. So he co-signed a loan for my mother. Now she is notoriously bad with money, he's bailed her out a lot (as have we all), but lately she has made a real effort to stick to the budget and only buy what she needs. But she's disabled and receives little in the way of income, and sometimes she doesn't make enough to both pay off the loan and buy medications. This past month, she didn't have enough for the loan.

Now, I could have told him. But I didn't. He would have been anxious, worried, angry, stressed and resentful. A whole range of emotions surround this issue. Yes, it was "only his feelings", but the emotional wellbeing of others means a lot to me. It means more to me than food in my mouth or a roof over my head. "Feelings" are complex and hurting his "feelings" could have effected a lot of things. For example, he could have blown up at his boss and gotten fired (it's happened before). Could have gotten depressed. Did something reckless. Bad enough if he only resented my mother, or if he felt an unfair burden.

However, I couldn't both keep it from him and do nothing about it. So I simply made sure the loan payment was made. I didn't tell him because....I didn't want to hurt his feelings.

It could also be that someone told you something about this person and you didn't repeat it to the them.

I've been in that situation many times. People tell me secrets and how they feel about others. Especially if you're in a situation where you care about all of the parties involved. But I'm really good at spin when I want to be. So for example, my brother broke up with my best friend. Yeah, there were negatives. Of course, she really wanted to know why. Would have been worse to tell her nothing, because she would have blown it out of proportion in her mind. In that situation, I told her the truth and spun it with care for her heart.

Joy, in response to Kim:

That's not what this thread is about though, is it?

The thread is "I didn't tell you because I didn't want to hurt your feelings"

The truth is, I broke up with you because you couldn't satisfy me due to your (penis/breasts/brain). I'm not going to tell you that, because I don't want to hurt your feelings. That's what Kim is saying, and it applies to this thread.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Well some people are just plain fragile and cannot handle if somebody disagrees with them in the slightest.... and they don't handle stress well or when anything hard happens. To me, everything is hard- so there's no escaping it, unless I just want to quit life altogether.

For me, I don't mind criticisms, as long as you compliment me enough where I know you have my best interests at heart. =]

Y'all know the key to flirting with people and having great, exciting (and stable and long lasting at the same time) relationships is to criticize/tease them 2 times, then compliment them the third. Always be genuine when you're doing it too. The trick is to show that you're not a pussy, but not a total jerk either. Like how most girls and gay guys want bad guys but we want to change them to nice people lol.

Always break them down more then you lift them up, because the lifting up moments should be naturally better and you shouldn't cheapen them by having them occur as frequently as ripping them a new one. People love when you fuck em over and show that you can have power over them, in turn it makes the passive person feel the most in power. I think it's hot when people can be all assertive and dominant don't you? Maybe not. Oh well.