VI This Person

[Iconoclast IX]

I have been having a really hard time typing this person. It's almost impossible. All I know is that she is an ethical type, though I am quite sure that she is not an ExFp. More likely irrational than rational also. VI?

[Mediator Kam]

You need a password for the pic, remove it or something.

[Iconoclast IX]

You need a password for the pic, remove it or something.

Eh. Didn't notice that. I'll try to fix it.

[Expat]

Based on that one small pic, if I had to guess I'd say ENFj.

But it's really not enough.

[implied]

Based on that one small pic, if I had to guess I'd say ENFj.

But it's really not enough.

yeah, sort of mary tyler moore-ish.

[Iconoclast IX]

Based on that one small pic, if I had to guess I'd say ENFj.

But it's really not enough.

Brief description:
Appears sociable, but actually seems drained from socializing. Often spends a great amount of time arranging and organizing parties, gatherings, etc. yet strangely, seems to do so without any joy whatsoever, perhaps even regret. Prefers animals to humans. Can be very kind and loving, yet also has a cold, cruel, and unforgiving dark side. Often gives of the impression of being very inattentive and flaky, when in reality, can be rather focused, determined and calculating. Very, very concerned about the environment. On the positive side, behaves in a somewhat eccentric manner, perhaps purposefully, and does not care about what people think of her. Does not let other people's opinions influence her too much. Is extremely focused on aesthetics. Spends a large part of her day focused on the exact positioning of objects and decorations in her home. At the same time, she herself is somewhat disorganized.

[Mediator Kam]

Based on that one small pic, if I had to guess I'd say ENFj.

But it's really not enough.

Brief description:
Appears sociable, but actually seems drained from socializing. Often spends a great amount of time arranging and organizing parties, gatherings, etc. yet strangely, seems to do so without any joy whatsoever, perhaps even regret. Prefers animals to humans. Can be very kind and loving, yet also has a cold, cruel, and unforgiving dark side. Often gives of the impression of being very inattentive and flaky, when in reality, can be rather focused, determined and calculating. Very, very concerned about the environment. On the positive side, behaves in a somewhat eccentric manner, perhaps purposefully, and does not care about what people think of her. Does not let other people's opinions influence her too much. Is extremely focused on aesthetics. Spends a large part of her day focused on the exact positioning of objects and decorations in her home. At the same time, she herself is somewhat disorganized.

Sounds exactly like a Jungian ISFp. The purposeful eccentricity, the love for an aesthetic house, loves animals more than people, all that can be taken directly from the ISFp profile on Personalitypage.

"ISFPs have a strong affinity for aesthetics and beauty. They're likely to be animal lovers, and to have a true appreciation for the beauties of nature. They're original and independent, and need to have personal space. They value people who take the time to understand the ISFP, and who support the ISFP in pursuing their goals in their own, unique way. People who don't know them well may see their unique way of life as a sign of carefree light-heartedness, but the ISFP actually takes life very seriously, constantly gathering specific information and shifting it through their value systems, in search for clarification and underlying meaning."

That keys me into a ISFp/SEI.

[Expat]

Brief description:
Appears sociable, but actually seems drained from socializing. Often spends a great amount of time arranging and organizing parties, gatherings, etc. yet strangely, seems to do so without any joy whatsoever, perhaps even regret. Prefers animals to humans. Can be very kind and loving, yet also has a cold, cruel, and unforgiving dark side. Often gives of the impression of being very inattentive and flaky, when in reality, can be rather focused, determined and calculating. Very, very concerned about the environment. On the positive side, behaves in a somewhat eccentric manner, perhaps purposefully, and does not care about what people think of her. Does not let other people's opinions influence her too much. Is extremely focused on aesthetics. Spends a large part of her day focused on the exact positioning of objects and decorations in her home. At the same time, she herself is somewhat disorganized.

Perhaps ENFj, perhaps an ENTj who for some reason feels the need to focus on Fe and Si, perhaps for others' sake or due to a social role, perceived or real. What you're describing sounds like a concern for Si but not spontaneous.

[Kristiina]

Based on that one small pic, if I had to guess I'd say ENFj.

But it's really not enough.

Brief description:
Appears sociable, but actually seems drained from socializing. Often spends a great amount of time arranging and organizing parties, gatherings, etc. yet strangely, seems to do so without any joy whatsoever, perhaps even regret. Prefers animals to humans. Can be very kind and loving, yet also has a cold, cruel, and unforgiving dark side. Often gives of the impression of being very inattentive and flaky, when in reality, can be rather focused, determined and calculating. Very, very concerned about the environment. On the positive side, behaves in a somewhat eccentric manner, perhaps purposefully, and does not care about what people think of her. Does not let other people's opinions influence her too much. Is extremely focused on aesthetics. Spends a large part of her day focused on the exact positioning of objects and decorations in her home. At the same time, she herself is somewhat disorganized.

I can see ENFj in this description and definitely in the picture. But I'd have to assume that she has a very over-sensitive Si-PoLR. This is more often seen in ENFjs than ENTjs, but she's quite extreme. I don't really collect any objects and decorations and I wouldn't change their position much...

And if she's ENFj, she organizes the parties because she tries to stay social. In that case, she does care what people think of her, but she's doing a good job at hiding it.

[implied]

expat, how did you get "perhaps ENTj" from that, aside from the fact that her Si and Fe focus comes off as joyless? also -- could you give an example of an ESFj attempting to focus heavily on Ni and Te due to whatever reasons? trying to be overly organized?


@kamangir - i see what you mean by that sounding pretty much like MBTI ISFP, but i think she sounds like a constantly flipping out EJ.

[Megan]

I guess ENFp but not strongly so, more pictures and info might help. She appears to value and but not that good with them.

[Kristiina]

I guess ENFp but not strongly so, more pictures and info might help. She appears to value and but not that good with them.

Can you explain a bit more? I didn't get any Te vibe and I barely got the feeling that she might be in a Si-quadra. I agree with Expat's observation that the isn't spontaneous.

[Expat]

expat, how did you get "perhaps ENTj" from that, aside from the fact that her Si and Fe focus comes off as joyless? also -- could you give an example of an ESFj attempting to focus heavily on Ni and Te due to whatever reasons? trying to be overly organized?

*shrug* the description is a bit contradictory and can be interpreted in different ways. The "cold, cruel, unforgiving dark side" - as far as it goes, and whatever it may actually mean - suggests first Gamma, then Beta. Perhaps Ionoclast IX can provide more information.

And I said "perhaps ENTj" because my first thought was ENFj, then I thought that perhaps ENTj too, precisely due to the reasons you pointed out.

As for an ESFj attempting to focus on Ni and Te: I think any ESFj who happened to find himself/herself in a managerial job with responsibilities for longer term decisions.

Finally, my typing is just tentative -- I will have no problem changing it totally if more information is provided.

[Phaedrus]

How do you know that she is an ethical type, Iconoclast? By the way, she is certainly no ESFj (based on V.I.).

[Iconoclast IX]

How do you know that she is an ethical type, Iconoclast? By the way, she is certainly no ESFj (based on V.I.).

Based off actions and behavior. Sometimes, when typing a person, certain things just seem obvious. And no, she is certainly not an ESFj.

[Megan]

I guess ENFp but not strongly so, more pictures and info might help. She appears to value and but not that good with them.

Can you explain a bit more? I didn't get any Te vibe and I barely got the feeling that she might be in a Si-quadra. I agree with Expat's observation that the isn't spontaneous.

It is something to do with her being rather pragmatic and almost realistic despite the outward flakiness. And the not caring about what other people think of her does not seem that in a way. The whole not having people influence her decisions does not seem seeking. Then spending her day on aesthetics could be Si seeking or just some weird polr issue I guess but I have seen seekers to that. Can you see yourself or anyone of the ENFj type so focused daily on Si issues? Then the exact positioning of objects of decoration in the home is something that I have sort of associated with certain polr types. Not very convincing arguments here I know . I am flirting with the idea that she might be some sort of introvert as well.

[Iconoclast IX]

I guess ENFp but not strongly so, more pictures and info might help. She appears to value and but not that good with them.

Can you explain a bit more? I didn't get any Te vibe and I barely got the feeling that she might be in a Si-quadra. I agree with Expat's observation that the isn't spontaneous.

It is something to do with her being rather pragmatic and almost realistic despite the outward flakiness. And the not caring about what other people think of her does not seem that in a way. The whole not having people influence her decisions does not seem seeking. Then spending her day on aesthetics could be Si seeking or just some weird polr issue I guess but I have seen seekers to that. Can you see yourself or anyone of the ENFj type so focused daily on Si issues? Then the exact positioning of objects of decoration in the home is something that I have sort of associated with certain polr types. Not very convincing arguments here I know . I am flirting with the idea that she might be some sort of introvert as well.

Do you suggest that she is an INFj? Because, come to think of it, that suggestion actually seems very likely. I now suspect that she is an INFj-Fi.

[Expat]

Based on that one small pic, if I had to guess I'd say ENFj.

But it's really not enough.

Brief description:
Appears sociable, but actually seems drained from socializing. Often spends a great amount of time arranging and organizing parties, gatherings, etc. yet strangely, seems to do so without any joy whatsoever, perhaps even regret. Prefers animals to humans. Can be very kind and loving, yet also has a cold, cruel, and unforgiving dark side. Often gives of the impression of being very inattentive and flaky, when in reality, can be rather focused, determined and calculating. Very, very concerned about the environment. On the positive side, behaves in a somewhat eccentric manner, perhaps purposefully, and does not care about what people think of her. Does not let other people's opinions influence her too much. Is extremely focused on aesthetics. Spends a large part of her day focused on the exact positioning of objects and decorations in her home. At the same time, she herself is somewhat disorganized.

Sounds exactly like a Jungian ISFp. The purposeful eccentricity, the love for an aesthetic house, loves animals more than people, all that can be taken directly from the ISFp profile on Personalitypage.

"ISFPs have a strong affinity for aesthetics and beauty. They're likely to be animal lovers, and to have a true appreciation for the beauties of nature. They're original and independent, and need to have personal space. They value people who take the time to understand the ISFP, and who support the ISFP in pursuing their goals in their own, unique way. People who don't know them well may see their unique way of life as a sign of carefree light-heartedness, but the ISFP actually takes life very seriously, constantly gathering specific information and shifting it through their value systems, in search for clarification and underlying meaning."

That keys me into a ISFp/SEI.

The problems with SEI, to me, are these:

- "drained from socializing" and "arranging parties with no joy whatsoever" -- anyone can get drained from anything, but I don't think SEIs would be described as having that as a characteristic. They are likely to be "party animals", except in situations where the specific persons present make them feel bad or uncomfortable.
- cruel, dark, unforgiving, determined, calculating - is a SEI woman really likely to be seen that way?

Of course, it all depends on what was meant by that *shrug again*

[implied]

I guess ENFp but not strongly so, more pictures and info might help. She appears to value and but not that good with them.

Can you explain a bit more? I didn't get any Te vibe and I barely got the feeling that she might be in a Si-quadra. I agree with Expat's observation that the isn't spontaneous.

It is something to do with her being rather pragmatic and almost realistic despite the outward flakiness. And the not caring about what other people think of her does not seem that in a way. The whole not having people influence her decisions does not seem seeking. Then spending her day on aesthetics could be Si seeking or just some weird polr issue I guess but I have seen seekers to that. Can you see yourself or anyone of the ENFj type so focused daily on Si issues? Then the exact positioning of objects of decoration in the home is something that I have sort of associated with certain polr types. Not very convincing arguments here I know . I am flirting with the idea that she might be some sort of introvert as well.

that's actually really good hah.

[Expat]

And the not caring about what other people think of her does not seem that in a way. The whole not having people influence her decisions does not seem seeking.

Yes it's a good point, but again it depends on precisely what it's meant. ENFjs don't let their "big" Ti opinions be easily influenced by others either, once they've been made; just like ENTjs won't be friends with everyone who shows positive Fi towards them. Rather, ENFjs will have strong views on specific, "big" things - in which perhaps they were indeed influenced by others at some point - and rely on others for help on short-term, "small" things.

And the same goes for the "not caring what other people think of her" -- it depends. ENFjs want people to believe in the ENFjs opinion about themselves. So an ENFj may well think "let them think I'm an asshole, as long as they accept that I'm a great leader" or "let them think I'm cold and heartless, as long as they recognize me as ambitious and an achiever".

Please comment, Kristiina, if you disagree.

[Megan]

I am sort of surprised you guys think it is a good point because I had the vague feeling that I was talking out my ass when I wrote it . Any arguments for/against introversion?

[implied]

I am sort of surprised you guys think it is a good point because I had the vague feeling that I was talking out my ass when I wrote it . Any arguments for/against introversion?

seeming drained from socializing?

[Mediator Kam]

Based on that one small pic, if I had to guess I'd say ENFj.

But it's really not enough.

Brief description:
Appears sociable, but actually seems drained from socializing. Often spends a great amount of time arranging and organizing parties, gatherings, etc. yet strangely, seems to do so without any joy whatsoever, perhaps even regret. Prefers animals to humans. Can be very kind and loving, yet also has a cold, cruel, and unforgiving dark side. Often gives of the impression of being very inattentive and flaky, when in reality, can be rather focused, determined and calculating. Very, very concerned about the environment. On the positive side, behaves in a somewhat eccentric manner, perhaps purposefully, and does not care about what people think of her. Does not let other people's opinions influence her too much. Is extremely focused on aesthetics. Spends a large part of her day focused on the exact positioning of objects and decorations in her home. At the same time, she herself is somewhat disorganized.

Sounds exactly like a Jungian ISFp. The purposeful eccentricity, the love for an aesthetic house, loves animals more than people, all that can be taken directly from the ISFp profile on Personalitypage.

"ISFPs have a strong affinity for aesthetics and beauty. They're likely to be animal lovers, and to have a true appreciation for the beauties of nature. They're original and independent, and need to have personal space. They value people who take the time to understand the ISFP, and who support the ISFP in pursuing their goals in their own, unique way. People who don't know them well may see their unique way of life as a sign of carefree light-heartedness, but the ISFP actually takes life very seriously, constantly gathering specific information and shifting it through their value systems, in search for clarification and underlying meaning."

That keys me into a ISFp/SEI.

The problems with SEI, to me, are these:

- "drained from socializing" and "arranging parties with no joy whatsoever" -- anyone can get drained from anything, but I don't think SEIs would be described as having that as a characteristic. They are likely to be "party animals", except in situations where the specific persons present make them feel bad or uncomfortable.
- cruel, dark, unforgiving, determined, calculating - is a SEI woman really likely to be seen that way?

Of course, it all depends on what was meant by that *shrug again*

That is true, I don't know.

[Exodus]

I think Expat is right on this one.

[Megan]

Yes it's a good point, but again it depends on precisely what it's meant. ENFjs don't let their "big" Ti opinions be easily influenced by others either, once they've been made; just like ENTjs won't be friends with everyone who shows positive Fi towards them. Rather, ENFjs will have strong views on specific, "big" things - in which perhaps they were indeed influenced by others at some point - and rely on others for help on short-term, "small" things.

And the same goes for the "not caring what other people think of her" -- it depends. ENFjs want people to believe in the ENFjs opinion about themselves. So an ENFj may well think "let them think I'm an asshole, as long as they accept that I'm a great leader" or "let them think I'm cold and heartless, as long as they recognize me as ambitious and an achiever".

Yes I agree that these are indeed good points but...

Appears sociable, but actually seems drained from socializing. Often spends a great amount of time arranging and organizing parties, gatherings, etc. yet strangely, seems to do so without any joy whatsoever, perhaps even regret.

This part does not sound ENFj to me.

Often gives of the impression of being very inattentive and flaky, when in reality, can be rather focused, determined and calculating.

This is sort of my image of ENFp or someone with first or second function . Even the love of pets thing is something that I personally think is far more common in infantile/caregiver types... valuing types in other words.
I get the impression that ENFjs often think of pets especially several pets as demanding in a kind of way and unhygienic.

Very, very concerned about the environment. On the positive side, behaves in a somewhat eccentric manner, perhaps purposefully, and does not care about what people think of her.

I also get your point Expat but even what you said does imply that ENFjs tend to care what people think of them. Like in your example being seen as a great leader or whatever does indicate that the person does in fact care. I think we might need some clarification from the topic starter about what is meant by the not caring about what others think issue.

Does not let other people's opinions influence her too much.

The point you made Expat about ENFj not letting others opinion influence them much once they made a decision is something that am not sure about. I think Kriistina (in another thread) and most ENFj descriptions says they are given to fluctuations and doubts in their opinions and this is why the kind of certainty that Ti/Se types have is helpful to them. Perhaps I can see an ENFj having quite set idealogical opinions here or there but to consistently not want to have people influencing their opinions does not seem like someone who is the dual of an ISTj.

Is extremely focused on aesthetics. Spends a large part of her day focused on the exact positioning of objects and decorations in her home. At the same time, she herself is somewhat disorganized.

Again, this part just does not seem ENFj to me. I cannot imagine an ENFj with even weird polr issues spending most of their day positioning objects and decorations. It just seems too sustain and consistent or something to be polr related.

The whole image of this person gives the impression of someone with values. Pets, attention to aesthetics, valuing of entertainment/parties but finding it stressful to create it etc. seems needed.

[Wittmont]

Ethical Sensory Introvert. Some things you say give a distinct ISFj vibe. In my experience they can be very set in their views and headstrong, need to be part of group happenings, want to be in charge but doubt their abilities, very keen to be perceived in a positive light yet mostly in "keeping a facade up" kind of way, really enjoy sculptures and tangible artwork, love animals, efficient, very good at getting jobs done but lack patience, not necessarily superneat despite their interest for decorating (perhaps health related) ...

[Blaze]

get a delta vibe from her pic. could be Si hidden agenda. looks a little prissy.

[Kristiina]

I sometimes worry about giving the same sort of over-eager vibe. You know... planning parties but being too stressed about the details to really sit down and enjoy the party. Trying to make things look perfect but working too hard on it and seeming obsessed. Trying to do good make-up but I worry about ending up looking too strict like I'm going to an office. I have fears of being seen like her, but I don't really understand her as an individual. So yeah, I think she could be ENFj, but it would be a combination of the worst possible traits for ENFj (because she wouldn't really enjoy or value any of those Si things). It would make somewhat more sense if she was some other type and just had a different focus in life.