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Thread: Forms of conflict under Supersocion Theory

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    Default Forms of conflict under Supersocion Theory

    Opposition:
    This is the kind of conflict that exists between people of different Information Domains when the judgment of those domains yields different results as to what is correct or incorrect action. The individuals may see eachother as immoral, imprudent or even evil when this kind of conflict arises.

    Awkwardness:
    This is the kind of conflict that classical socionics deals with. It exists between people of different Master types. It comes about through differences in terms of capabilities and priorities, which make for situations in which one person is allowed to correct another person's mistakes, or to prey on the person's weakness.

    Misinterpretation:
    This kind of conflict exists between people of different Slave types. The two persons have different ways of seeing the world on an elementary level, and make themselves clear in different terms. They also behave differently, have different ways of enjoying themselves and different interests. Their social behavior is misaligned. The two persons constantly misinterpret eachothers' words and deeds, thus resulting in misunderstanding.

    There is a fourth form of 'difference' between people that does not fit well with the others. This difference manifests in the case of two persons that are on opposite sides where Object- and Field-orientation is concerned. Persons between which this difference exist may either trivialize or ignore eachothers' problems and ideals, or benefit greatly from the eachothers input as to where energy should be directed. Particularly people that are of the same Information Domain and have different 'orientations' complement eachother greatly.

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    Sounds concrete.

    I would add to those two more, on the tentative basis of hitta's +/- paradigm. In particular, positive and negative forms of an accepting element, when used with the same producing element, tend to completely disgust each other on a moral and philosophical level. In fact, I suspect that by reversing the signs on a given type, the pathological form of the same may be derived. As evidence for a case in point, I offer the case of Hu, the Democratic fundraiser who was indicted over a massive money laundering scheme. Mr. Hu's actions seem to me indicative of +Te as a means by which to assess opportunity for profit, followed by -Ni as a factor of inclination toward risk and short-sightedness.

    I also see nonstandard rivalries between pairings of contrary functions in the same block (the transcendent vs immanent issue), projected onto real world people and situations, as a particularly brutal source of conflict. In fact, I suspect that the reverse polarities coupled with the hatred of transcendence by the immanent was the real fuel behind Hitler's ambitions in WWII.

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    That's the idea. The first step to take for anyone who wants to use our theories is to start realizing that their relation with others is determined by factors other than the "socionics type" (= master type).

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    In particular, positive and negative forms of an accepting element, when used with the same producing element, tend to completely disgust each other on a moral and philosophical level.
    What kind of types/people would this conflict occur between...?

    It sounds to me like what you're describing would be impossible. The +/- sign is fully determined by what function a function pairs with. (except when you'd be talking about a 'regressing' version of the type, which would mean that the function being paired with was also inversed in +/-).

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    That's exactly what I'm referring to. I think the root of the problem lies in the differentiation process itself.

    When differentiating your own psyche you pick from between the socially acceptable sign for your leading element and the non-acceptable sign. You are aware of the pathological option, but you dismiss it. (Freud's concept of repression at work.) Even when you rely on the exiled pair as your organized id, its pecking order is reversed, with the mal-signed leading element only acting as an advisor to the lead's contrary.

    A pathological person has no problem with the mal-signed range of cognition. In fact, they may decide from a range of such thoughts that which is optimal to the situation. On the other hand, it's the more socially acceptable thoughts that get the shaft.

    I've actually begun to consider whether or not the type relations themselves are perversed between pathological and normal people. For example, otherwise superego partners would be extremely antagonistic, always getting in each other's way as a form of mock duality. Dual-seeking itself would be misdirected, particularly towards semi-duality.

    In particular, it seems to me that a pathological INTj, with their -Ni, would be a total dispoiler for ISFj hopes for a "better" future.

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    Ahh, this theory is fantastic.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    what the hell is a slave type?

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    The slave type is a type that every person has besides their ordinary socionics type (= master type).

    The master type determines how you live your life; what your role is in society. The slave type, on the other hand, determines how you actually see the world around you. It determines what things you notice and focus on.

    Click the link in my sig for more info.

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    After thinking carefully about the way socially adjusted and rescendent types interact, the following seem evident:

    - In a supervisor-supervisee relationship, the supervisee always has as PoLR the base function of the supervisor's rescendent form. This explains why the supervisor is frightened by the supervisee's PoLR statements: they can observe situations where conclusions similar to those of the supervisee have been adopted as plain truth by recendent types, and used as the basis for further (erroneous) conclusions. On the other hand, one can argue that it is the acceptance of PoLR data which leads the rescendent off into "the blue." It's like a perverse mirror relationship.

    - If one were to choose to follow the base function with PoLR instead of the creative function, then one would be manifesting oneself as the rescendent form of one's comparative.

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    Does one's master type relate to another's slave type? For instance, if I'm INFp-ENTp and my dad is ISFp-something-I-don't-know-what his slave type might be, would the fact that my slave type is his master type's dual, mean anything? Does it change our interactions any? Or do master types only relate to others' master types and slaves to others' slaves?

    (am I making sense?)
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    The two types don't interact directly, but when you metabolize the energy of the slave type you react to it in accordance with the metabolism type relations, because by using your master type to metabolize energy you are necessarily abstracting a person from it, in a sense. (so long as you metabolize the entire energy pattern surrounding it, which of course always follows model-A in as much as you can understand it.) You give it role and relationship to other energies, for example.

    To study your slave type, think about how people around you react to the suggestions you make. Think about how you react to theirs. You'll notice the very plans they are offering you have relation to your own, just like people do in socionics. Your very patterns of energy have character. Part of this character is your slave type.

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    Okay, that's helpful. Here's another question: can looking at quadra values help determine one's slave type? For instance, if I were trying to decide between ENTp and ENFp for my slave type, might I look at alpha vs. delta to help determine?
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Sure. That question, I think, can be answered rather simply: do you live in a world of limited possibilities and the motives they seem to signify, or in a world were conclusions drawn rest on the possibilities that seem to be in the air?

    The first option is ENFp slave, the second ENTp.

    On the other hand, given those two maybe I can figure it out....

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Sure. That question, I think, can be answered rather simply: do you live in a world of limited possibilities and the motives they seem to signify, or in a world were conclusions drawn rest on the possibilities that seem to be in the air?

    The first option is ENFp slave, the second ENTp.

    On the other hand, given those two maybe I can figure it out....
    Well possibilities ARE limited so yeah, I live in a world where they're limited. But I don't like that they're limited and I would prefer to live in a world where everything was less constrained by limits. I hate rules and limits. But they're part of life.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    OK, first up: this is an id reaction. I brought up both -Ne and +Ne to you and you responded with your -Ne id. This is followed by +Fi: you are concentrating on what you feel about the situation you live in.

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron
    Well possibilities ARE limited so yeah, I live in a world where they're limited. But I don't like that they're limited and I would prefer to live in a world where everything was less constrained by limits. I hate rules and limits. But they're part of life.
    Well possibilities ARE limited so yeah, I live in a world where they're limited. -Ne

    But I don't like that they're limited: crossover of -Ne to +Fi; +Fi not liking what -Ne has given it. This statement seems more "adaptist" than anything, because it wants freedom from regulation, freedom to adapt as is required for the situation.

    and I would prefer to live in a world where everything was less constrained by limits. I hate rules and limits. But they're part of life.:
    +Fi commenting on what it wants. I don't see any talk of "binding" here, so Fe slaves seems the more likely candidate.

    ENFp slave it is then. But I'd like labcoat's analysis just to be sure. He's often better at diagnosing slave type than I am. (over the internet at least. In person I can diagnose slave easy.)

    What this means:
    - you are weak against laws, rules. This is why you dislike them. You see rules as temporary and ever changing. You think the rules are made by the person who has the biggest guns, the forces that are strongest. These powers make the facts, which in turn dictate the rules.
    Note: because you are INFp, you do not dislike structure. In fact, you want it, even need it, by which means you can, being ENFp slave, communicate with people all the better and choose better relationships.
    - you know how to make people feel at ease (slave Fi), and this is specifically the kind of effect you try to instill by means of the values you produce. (+Fe) Your values are specifically designed not to offend people, and to respect others' opinions. Indeed, this is what you preach. (I believe that would be the proper word, "preach")
    - You live in a world where people are always narrowing down possibilities. Possibility ranges are narrowing over time, this is what you observe. You would say that it is the natural way of things for potential to decline with age.
    - The will you can muster (Se slave) rises in proportion to the enmity between you and the world. You also see this in people around you: will, determination... these things grow stronger through conflict.
    - You would say that peace (slave Si) can be won and maintained only through force. (-Se) When there is no strength to be had, "peace" cannot be maintained for long. You look for someone who has the will to bring war against the established order and overthrow it, creating a new righteous order (+Ti) under which people can be free and prosperous.

    That's ENFp slave with INFp metabolism. Sound like you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    OK, first up: this is an id reaction. I brought up both -Ne and +Ne to you and you responded with your -Ne id. This is followed by +Fi: you are concentrating on what you feel about the situation you live in.

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron
    Well possibilities ARE limited so yeah, I live in a world where they're limited. But I don't like that they're limited and I would prefer to live in a world where everything was less constrained by limits. I hate rules and limits. But they're part of life.
    Well possibilities ARE limited so yeah, I live in a world where they're limited. -Ne

    But I don't like that they're limited: crossover of -Ne to +Fi; +Fi not liking what -Ne has given it. This statement seems more "adaptist" than anything, because it wants freedom from regulation, freedom to adapt as is required for the situation.

    and I would prefer to live in a world where everything was less constrained by limits. I hate rules and limits. But they're part of life.:
    +Fi commenting on what it wants. I don't see any talk of "binding" here, so Fe slaves seems the more likely candidate.

    ENFp slave it is then. But I'd like labcoat's analysis just to be sure. He's often better at diagnosing slave type than I am. (over the internet at least. In person I can diagnose slave easy.)

    What this means:
    - you are weak against laws, rules. This is why you dislike them. You see rules as temporary and ever changing. You think the rules are made by the person who has the biggest guns, the forces that are strongest. These powers make the facts, which in turn dictate the rules.
    Note: because you are INFp, you do not dislike structure. In fact, you want it, even need it, by which means you can, being ENFp slave, communicate with people all the better and choose better relationships.
    - you know how to make people feel at ease (slave Fi), and this is specifically the kind of effect you try to instill by means of the values you produce. (+Fe) Your values are specifically designed not to offend people, and to respect others' opinions. Indeed, this is what you preach. (I believe that would be the proper word, "preach")
    - You live in a world where people are always narrowing down possibilities. Possibility ranges are narrowing over time, this is what you observe. You would say that it is the natural way of things for potential to decline with age.
    - The will you can muster (Se slave) rises in proportion to the enmity between you and the world. You also see this in people around you: will, determination... these things grow stronger through conflict.
    - You would say that peace (slave Si) can be won and maintained only through force. (-Se) When there is no strength to be had, "peace" cannot be maintained for long. You look for someone who has the will to bring war against the established order and overthrow it, creating a new righteous order (+Ti) under which people can be free and prosperous.

    That's ENFp slave with INFp metabolism. Sound like you?
    Yes, definitely. But the bold there makes me sound like some sort of Iraq war/Bush supporter! LOL

    edit: btw, I really like this dual type theory. It makes a lot of sense to me. Although I'm not hard to convince. :wink:
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Well if that sounds like you, then INFp-ENFp it must be, then.

    If that sounds like Bush, then maybe that's because he's ESTp. He's a theoconservative specialist also, but I guess you knew that.... It is only natural for INFp to appeal to ESTp for strength and stability.

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    so now I have another question, if you don't mind

    What might a relationship between these two types look like:

    ISFp-ISTp and INFp-ENFp

    So they would be lookalikes on the master level and duals on the slave level. Would the lookalike relation be a lot more obvious? When might they notice or feel the dual slave relation?
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron
    so now I have another question, if you don't mind

    What might a relationship between these two types look like:

    ISFp-ISTp and INFp-ENFp

    So they would be lookalikes on the master level and duals on the slave level. Would the lookalike relation be a lot more obvious? When might they notice or feel the dual slave relation?
    You mean comparatives on the master (your look-alike is INTp) and duals on the slave.

    Slave duality is marked by complementary interests and pursuits. The work of your slave dual is just what you need to fill in the gaps in your own work, so to speak. Just as master duality complements your information, slave duality complements your work. If you find you're just not being effective or productive, a slave dual is what you need.

    In light of above, perhaps you can see what makes a dual-dual relation so desirable: all your weaknesses are covered and you can succeed at pretty much anything.

    As for comparative-duality relations, imagine two professionals who had different ways of reaching the same fundamental goals, but found they worked in complementary fields. Let me think... the sculpture artist (ISFp-ISTp) who needs to know how not to offend people with their work, or at the very least needs someone to create a new value for their work that can smooth over people's emotional reactions to it. Someone who can create a positive reception, you might say.

    Actually that's probably not very good. I'll need to think on that.

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    I'm pretty sure INFp and ISFp are lookalike/business/kindred relations. Am I wrong?
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Intertype_relations
    SEI and IEI, "business/lookalike/cooperation"

    IEI and ILI "kindred/comparative"

    That's what it says. So I was wrong with the term "kindred" but I meant lookalike/business for INFp and ISFp. INFp and INTp are actually comparative, according to this chart. Help me, am I going crazy??
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    No, the official socionics terms are just confusing. ("Kindred"... what the hell-?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    No, the official socionics terms are just confusing. ("Kindred"... what the hell-?)
    okay thanks.

    So let me see if I get this straight. When putting out suggestions or actually acting/working, it's my slave type that's at the fore. But my "default" setting (so to speak) is my master type? So when observing people or being passive in whatever situation, it's the master type that's processing the information?
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    So let me see if I get this straight. When putting out suggestions or actually acting/working, it's my slave type that's at the fore. But my "default" setting (so to speak) is my master type? So when observing people or being passive in whatever situation, it's the master type that's processing the information?
    My impression of it is that even then it is primarily the slave type that processes things. The master type is what you use to organize the "face value" information that is handled by the slave on a higher level.

    But from what I gather tcaudilllg's view of it is that this is opposite. He refers to the master type as the type that handles "information" and the other as the one that handles "energy". Anyway; I have always found that part of his explanations dubious. From what I can tell socionics deals with information processing and nothing beyond that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat
    So let me see if I get this straight. When putting out suggestions or actually acting/working, it's my slave type that's at the fore. But my "default" setting (so to speak) is my master type? So when observing people or being passive in whatever situation, it's the master type that's processing the information?
    My impression of it is that even then it is primarily the slave type that processes things. The master type is what you use to organize the "face value" information that is handled by the slave on a higher level.

    But from what I gather tcaudilllg's view of it is that this is opposite. He refers to the master type as the type that handles "information" and the other as the one that handles "energy". Anyway; I have always found that part of his explanations dubious. From what I can tell socionics deals with information processing and nothing beyond that.
    hm. okay. cool avatar.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Motor functions. Energy processor functions of the brain that are not so much perceived as interacted with and experienced.

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