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Thread: ESTj Uncovered

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    Default ESTj Uncovered

    http://www.socionics.com/prof/estj2.htm
    ESTjs are born to be bosses. "Work! Produce! Utilise! And work!" - undoubtedly comes very close to describing ESTj's moto. If you have to work for an ESTj expect a civilised form of slavery. It is guaranteed that they will optimise your job so that you might even find yourself working on your way to work. This makes one wonder about whether the infamous "ARBEIT MACHT FREI" - the "work will set you free" slogan at the gates of Nazi's concentration camps was the sarcastic work of an ESTj "genius". But to be fair, ESTjs do not just demand work from others, they are workaholics themselves. That's maybe why they think it is normal.

    And no, they are not enemies of fun. On contrary, they like to have fun and enjoy a good laugh and humour. They are however the enemies of immature and childish fun - "Why don't people grow up? I did!"
    I don't like not working for long. It psychologically bothers me.
    And I am not very "fun" either.

    I am at least glad there are other people like me, so it's not like totally being weird on my part.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Yes, describes well my boss, but we get along because I'm similar to him in terms of working.

    There's something missing there, though. ESTjs tend to think (unless healthy) that others would work less than them if not prompted, and tend also to get irritated when others are quicker/work more than them (especially people "lower in rank").
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I know what you mean. Perhaps it has something to do with making LSEs feel like they are slacking off, or just plain being outdone.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JTDW
    I know what you mean. Perhaps it has something to do with making LSEs feel like they are slacking off, or just plain being outdone.
    Probably, I don't know, I was kind of asking you? I just want the money, couldn't care less about outdoing others in all honesty!
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    An unhealthy LSE can hate it when someone "does a better job" than them, or puts in more effort, or both, especially if it is someone new or beneath them.

    One possible scenario is that the LSE dislikes feeling like he inappropriately judged the amount of work he needed to do for a situation. He can feel threatened when someone new shows up and does something really well, especially if that person receives praise. This can stress an LSE because now he wonders if people will appreciate his hard work enough, or even if he will be less valued now that someone can do something better than he can. Amplified by an inability to understand how people feel towards him, it can be very uneasy. (That happened to me last week). There are many variations of it, I am sure.

    I would go on to say....
    That at their core, ESTjs know they really are not "people persons" (as in, feeling like they can always rely on others to get by, or have a great deal of strength in social interaction alone), and they generally feel like they are only going to be valued based on what they can do, how well they do it, and what they can provide for other people. Consider they are caregivers.

    What really can drain a caregiver is if they seem like they are un-needed. So along comes someone else who can do something better, faster, and win everyone's praise or awards or something, and the LSE can feel obsolete or just plain un-needed, and that is basically a terrible feeling. LSEs, or at least I do, thrive on responsibility and being needed in critical situations - it allows for a certain kind of dedication and commitment and general exhilaration to come out - a sense of duty in a way.


    LSEs love working on something and making it of great quality, something special. However, they hate putting time and effort into something that works out. When someone does something wrong to make what they were working on into something that doesn't matter, LSEs can easily get angry at this offender. But, and possibly related to what I said above -- if something happens where the LSE realizes it is not good enough at whatever it is doing, or realizes itself (as in, it did something wrong, or it is not good enough) is the cause for it's desire for quality to be abandoned or squandered, then that can be very disappointing.


    So trying to go back to the boss thing... it could be a few things

    * the boss doesn't want to look bad
    * the boss feels like he didn't do a good enough job, so seeing someone work harder or do something better makes him feel guilty or incompetent
    * the boss feels like the new person could be a "threat" career wise


    I would say feeling like people need to be "prompted" to work has to do with weak interpersonal intuition, combined with a feeling that everything could almost always be done a little bit better, among other things.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Nazism is more an LSI thing (Hitler was EIE)

    btw: offensive descriptions are the only interesting thing on Ganin's website...

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    Could never work for them. Fucking slave masters.

    But friends? Fuggetabout it. They're awesome as friends.

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    Question: So in order for an ESTj to consider you as a friend, do they need to be able to provide something for you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno
    Question: So in order for an ESTj to consider you as a friend, do they need to be able to provide something for you?
    No, not really. I am friends with a lot of people I do not do anything for except say hello to in classes or in our dormitory, etc.

    The difference is when you get towards or inside of the inner circle - then the LSE is more apt to have to / want to do things for you.
    The closer you are to the LSE, the more he feels like he has to do stuff for you to show you that he cares.
    It would be extremely uncomfortable for an LSE to be close to someone and, for example, be impaired or otherwise unable to do something for the people it cares for*


    * - may be a possible as to why I dislike getting intoxicated on any level. I (personally) don't like giving up that control, that ability to help or be aware of what is going on.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    JTDW Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:06 am Post subject:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sereno wrote:
    Question: So in order for an ESTj to consider you as a friend, do they need to be able to provide something for you?

    No, not really. I am friends with a lot of people I do not do anything for except say hello to in classes or in our dormitory, etc.

    The difference is when you get towards or inside of the inner circle - then the LSE is more apt to have to / want to do things for you.
    The closer you are to the LSE, the more he feels like he has to do stuff for you to show you that he cares.
    It would be extremely uncomfortable for an LSE to be close to someone and, for example, be impaired or otherwise unable to do something for the people it cares for*


    * - may be a possible as to why I dislike getting intoxicated on any level. I (personally) don't like giving up that control, that ability to help or be aware of what is going on.
    Are there other signs though? I don't know if opening up to me and talking about personal issues can be considered a sign. There are people who can talk about their things without really requiring for there to be some sort of personal attachment.

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    I don't know if opening up to me and talking about personal issues can be considered a sign
    I very rarely do that with people I don't know, only once really, when there was no one around, and I was in a really bad way.
    I don't open up to people personally very frequently.

    And I generally only enjoy doing it with people I feel like I can trust
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    This is all interesting, but, I have more questions .

    - Is it a good sign when an ESTj becomes less agitated and calm around you compared to how they were before? I know it might sound vague, but I do perceive energy changes in people easily. I don't know if there even is good reasoning, but it does make me feel like I'm doing something wrong. Seeing them in their usual state and then being more subdued makes me confused.

    - How would an ESTj take denying of help offered, even small? I have done this before, but I didn't realize that it might be important to them.

    - What would be the best and worst thing you could say to an ESTj? I mean unintentionally.

    These are the ones that I have come up with now. You ESTjs confuse me a lot, though I know that it works both ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno
    This is all interesting, but, I have more questions .

    - Is it a good sign when an ESTj becomes less agitated and calm around you compared to how they were before? I know it might sound vague, but I do perceive energy changes in people easily. I don't know if there even is good reasoning, but it does make me feel like I'm doing something wrong. Seeing them in their usual state and then being more subdued makes me confused.
    Yeah. Or at least I prefer it. I was just telling an INFj today that I appreciated her so much because she calms me down....

    Obviously, there is a difference between being bored, and actually being comfortable enough to relax. But positively, what I like about INFjs is that they allow me to calm down, and I feel like I can "trust" them, I feel like they are not a thread or anything like that.

    Being less agitated is generally a good thing. It is not easy for me to 'let my guard down', however.


    See the following:

    http://the16types.info/types.php?typename=INFJ
    1. Bearer of quiet introspection, hidden sea of feelings. The world of his feelings is so fine and rich that he does not need verbal reassurances of someone’s love for him. Even without words he observes, who loves whom and how, who needs or doesn’t need whom. His most important capability is his ability to adapt to his partner’s emotions, to empathize, release emotional tension, to calm down.

    2 He is usually a quiet, amicable man. Being in groups, he prefers to keep silence and watch, but among his close friends his behavior switches to the opposite – then one cannot call him too shy, because he remarks perfectly, how other people treat him, and knows how to improve their relation to him. Strives to submit other people to his own understanding of ethical and non-ethical. He never imposes his own emotions on others, but accompanies, empathizes emotions of his partner. He demonstrates specific emotional standstill. He is sure that other people need him to be quiet, calm, tranquil. He strives to be something like a "compress" other people can apply to their wounds.
    This is for the logical subtype, but it applies to all ESTjs somewhat:
    ADMINISTRATOR
    Logical subtype is efficient, dry in the contact, it is correct, has a strict form, it is unapproachable. It is not inclined to the jokes, it is serious, restrained. It is usually laconic, but if it flares up, it is difficult to stop it. It is straight-line in the behavior and the conversation. It can manifest sharpness in the judgments, because of what it has many ethical problems. There is another extreme - can keep silent, and then, kopya of offence, it will for long avoid contact.
    Beskompromissen is obstinate. Sometimes it attempts to arrange collocutor to itself by intimate or sincere intonations in the voice. This makes, if most is located to the frankness, either he wants to obtain some information or service. It is reserved, over-anxious and distrustful. It does not love to speak about feelings. It prefers to be occupied by anything useful and to lead everything to the end. It is constantly stressed, to it difficult to be discharged, to be weakened. It is subjected to the unexpected flashes of anger. It is forged in the motions.
    What it is getting at is the ESTjs, and even to some extent, EJs in general, as being.generally stressed. Now, LSEs are good with Si and being "relaxing", but they need something in particular to really relax.......

    http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...=127502#127502
    block
    ...
    It is natural that genuine reality constantly disappoints Shtirlitsev. Therefore, analyzing the previous sad experience, they are very careful in the formation of new relations. Very not easily they converge with the people, they try not to tie their society, about itself, about their personal life they say very little and it is very unwilling.
    ...
    Any manifestation of dishonorableness, dishonesty, meanness, treachery, zhul'nichestva survives very acutely. (Shtirlits in the ethical plan we generally deeply wound. By external severity and by inaccessibility it covers its internal vulnerability.)
    ...
    Any aggravation of the relations Of shtirlits receives as declaration of war: it will mobilize entire its will and energy and it begins to consider the plan of actions in the prevailing situation. Moreover this war usually continues "to the victorious end" and it costs it the enormous stress of forces and nerves, which subsequently affects its health.
    ...
    Shtirlits magnificently knows how to aggravate relations and sufficiently rapidly acquires to itself the mass of enemies. Therefore the ethical program of its duala of Dostoyevsky is for his "problematic" ethics present rescuing, since it orients toward the mutual understanding, pacifism, mercy and pliability. Dostoyevsky learns Shtirlitsa to be magnanimous, to know how to pardon, he "softens" Shtirlitsa, smooths out the sharp angles of his relations. Shtirlits is calmed, vidya before itself an ethical example of Dostoyevsky, who knows how to stably transfer any disappointments and who knows how not to hold evil. The idealistic principles of Dostoyevsky find the reality, when them follows Shtirlits.
    .... LSE's generally need a peaceful, decent atmosphere, the kind that EIIs prefer to surround themselves with. It needs it but it is only so skilled at creating it, and greatly appreciates it when other people have such.

    That induces opening up, and feeling more connected to people.



    - Is it a good sign when an ESTj becomes less agitated and calm around you compared to how they were before? I know it might sound vague, but I do perceive energy changes in people easily. I don't know if there even is good reasoning, but it does make me feel like I'm doing something wrong. Seeing them in their usual state and then being more subdued makes me confused.
    Why is this confusing? Why do you think it is negative? And why do you think you are doing something wrong?

    EJs are generally very wound up and energetic one way or another - so having a more relaxed and subdued IJ balances them out.

    "EJs see IJs as solid, reliable, and reassuringly predictable, and usually not inclined towards being the first to take the initiative in taking action."
    http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=EJ_temperament

    IJs are nice because you don't have to be so sensitive to the constant changes or whatever around you. It is settling. Not everything stays the same as much as IJs do.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno
    - How would an ESTj take denying of help offered, even small? I have done this before, but I didn't realize that it might be important to them.
    That is unclear. You are denying help they offered to you?
    That would be kind of disappointing, LSEs love "serve and protect". They are caregivers, and like doing things for you.
    But they'll give over it. Never letting them do anything for you would be a turn off. It is like, well, this person doesn't really need me for anything. And that doesn't mean that you have to be an invalid around them, no. Just general stuff, like, asking them to spend time with you - that is a big deal. Hanging out, Fi bonds, close relationships - that is a lot more important, friendship or otherwise.

    [hr:a251c69005][hr:a251c69005]

    - What would be the best and worst thing you could say to an ESTj? I mean unintentionally.
    I don't understand that question. How do you unintentionally say something best or worst?

    Here goes:

    Best: You really did a good job on that (if it was something they put time into). Don't expect them to say "YEAH, thank you so much ", they might just say "yeah, it went well.". I never really get excited, unless I really, really, really went for something and thought I wouldn't be able to get it but did anyways. Thanking them for how they tend to and take care of things. LSEs like taking care of things, and doing a good job of it, too. LSEs like it when things are working well and going smoothly. Appreciating loyalty is very nice, because, if you don't care about the LSE being loyal to your, then it is like..... well...... ........ are we really friends, etc?

    Worst:
    Any manifestation of dishonorableness, dishonesty, meanness, treachery, zhul'nichestva survives very acutely. (Shtirlits in the ethical plan we generally deeply wound. By external severity and by inaccessibility it covers its internal vulnerability.)
    Any sort of manipulation or dishonesty, lies or coverups, hiding the truth - this will raise red flags all over the place, and can turn the LSE into a very unpleasant person. There are other things, but I'll think of them later. Not many things really bother me. I know I am could be better at many things, as far as criticisms go.

    [hr:a251c69005][hr:a251c69005]
    These are the ones that I have come up with now. You ESTjs confuse me a lot, though I know that it works both ways.
    Have you read the profiles I have referenced?
    Profiles are not people, but they help give you an understanding of things, somewhat. Or something to refer to.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    No, generally my ESTj friend offers to help whenever he can (like I asked him to build me a fire a little while ago, it's cold in here) but generally I don't get the vibe that he NEEDS to do something for me in order to continue being my friend. He does seem to enjoy it though.

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    UDP Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:09 am Post subject:

    Quote:
    - Is it a good sign when an ESTj becomes less agitated and calm around you compared to how they were before? I know it might sound vague, but I do perceive energy changes in people easily. I don't know if there even is good reasoning, but it does make me feel like I'm doing something wrong. Seeing them in their usual state and then being more subdued makes me confused.
    Why is this confusing? Why do you think it is negative? And why do you think you are doing something wrong?

    EJs are generally very wound up and energetic one way or another - so having a more relaxed and subdued IJ balances them out.

    "EJs see IJs as solid, reliable, and reassuringly predictable, and usually not inclined towards being the first to take the initiative in taking action."
    http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=EJ_temperament

    IJs are nice because you don't have to be so sensitive to the constant changes or whatever around you. It is settling. Not everything stays the same as much as IJs do.
    It's confusing because I don't know if they are really happy subdued. I don't think it's negative when they are, I actually like that, but I don't want to impose my calmness on other people if it makes them not be there self. It shocks me a bit when they get into these more introverted type moods, because I get the impression that they are being vulnerable and in a way slightly submissive, which is something that I am not used to seeing. Again, I don't know if that is what they really want or not, and it's most probably the reason for my confusion.

    Sereno wrote:
    - How would an ESTj take denying of help offered, even small? I have done this before, but I didn't realize that it might be important to them.
    That is unclear. You are denying help they offered to you?
    That would be kind of disappointing, LSEs love "serve and protect". They are caregivers, and like doing things for you.
    But they'll give over it. Never letting them do anything for you would be a turn off. It is like, well, this person doesn't really need me for anything. And that doesn't mean that you have to be an invalid around them, no. Just general stuff, like, asking them to spend time with you - that is a big deal. Hanging out, Fi bonds, close relationships - that is a lot more important, friendship or otherwise.
    I have this mentality that I shouldn't have others do things that I can do myself, but of course, like I tend to do sometimes, I take things to an exaggerated level . It makes it even more complicated since I don't like accepting my Se polr at times. I used to see accepting help, especially the physical kind, to make me look weak. For example, this ESTj I knew offered me once to carry some of my books on his backpack because it really did look like I was carrying the entire library around campus. Do you think I was going to accept that help? Helllll no . I can't afford to look like a weakling.

    Quote:
    - What would be the best and worst thing you could say to an ESTj? I mean unintentionally.
    I don't understand that question. How do you unintentionally say something best or worst?

    Here goes:

    Best: You really did a good job on that (if it was something they put time into). Don't expect them to say "YEAH, thank you so much ", they might just say "yeah, it went well.". I never really get excited, unless I really, really, really went for something and thought I wouldn't be able to get it but did anyways. Thanking them for how they tend to and take care of things. LSEs like taking care of things, and doing a good job of it, too. LSEs like it when things are working well and going smoothly. Appreciating loyalty is very nice, because, if you don't care about the LSE being loyal to your, then it is like..... well...... ........ are we really friends, etc?

    Worst:
    Quote:
    Any manifestation of dishonorableness, dishonesty, meanness, treachery, zhul'nichestva survives very acutely. (Shtirlits in the ethical plan we generally deeply wound. By external severity and by inaccessibility it covers its internal vulnerability.)

    Any sort of manipulation or dishonesty, lies or coverups, hiding the truth - this will raise red flags all over the place, and can turn the LSE into a very unpleasant person. There are other things, but I'll think of them later. Not many things really bother me. I know I am could be better at many things, as far as criticisms go.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:
    These are the ones that I have come up with now. You ESTjs confuse me a lot, though I know that it works both ways.

    Have you read the profiles I have referenced?
    Profiles are not people, but they help give you an understanding of things, somewhat. Or something to refer to.
    I said unintentional because sometimes one can say stupid things without noticing their effect on others. I have read the profiles, but reading and actually understanding are different things. I don't really relate to what is described. Also, they are not really explained in a way that "gets to me." Maybe because it's not in Fi speak .

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    It's confusing because I don't know if they are really happy subdued. I don't think it's negative when they are, I actually like that, but I don't want to impose my calmness on other people if it makes them not be there self. It shocks me a bit when they get into these more introverted type moods, because I get the impression that they are being vulnerable and in a way slightly submissive, which is something that I am not used to seeing. Again, I don't know if that is what they really want or not, and it's most probably the reason for my confusion.
    I have never really heard someone say things like this before, so maybe I am not sure what you are talking about.

    How about you give a very specific example?

    Initially, I'm wondering why you see this as a bad thing. It sounds fine to me. It sounds like something that would happen with any EJ. So I don't understand why it is specific to LSEs, or what you are really getting at. Perhaps you are not used to people's energy fluctuations throughout the day, or different days, because you are IJ, and expect people to be the same all the time? That seems a little far fetched, but, maybe.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno
    I said unintentional because sometimes one can say stupid things without noticing their effect on others. I have read the profiles, but reading and actually understanding are different things. I don't really relate to what is described. Also, they are not really explained in a way that "gets to me." Maybe because it's not in Fi speak .
    Hm. Does my posting help? Or would you want more concrete examples of the specific situations.
    Like I said in the last post, perhaps you could give an example of a situation you are specifically referring to, and we can comment on it more in depth.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    UDP Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:10 am Post subject:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:
    It's confusing because I don't know if they are really happy subdued. I don't think it's negative when they are, I actually like that, but I don't want to impose my calmness on other people if it makes them not be there self. It shocks me a bit when they get into these more introverted type moods, because I get the impression that they are being vulnerable and in a way slightly submissive, which is something that I am not used to seeing. Again, I don't know if that is what they really want or not, and it's most probably the reason for my confusion.
    I have never really heard someone say things like this before, so maybe I am not sure what you are talking about.

    How about you give a very specific example?

    Initially, I'm wondering why you see this as a bad thing. It sounds fine to me. It sounds like something that would happen with any EJ. So I don't understand why it is specific to LSEs, or what you are really getting at. Perhaps you are not used to people's energy fluctuations throughout the day, or different days, because you are IJ, and expect people to be the same all the time? That seems a little far fetched, but, maybe.
    Actually, it's hard for me to go more specific, and I'm not really trying to get at something else other than that. It's just one of those things that probably others can notice except yourself. A lot of it must be lack of more in depth experience with ESTjs. Ok, let me see if I can describe it more: It's like one moment they have this "in your face" attitude, possibly trying to be in control of things, and then they are very complacent and calm. This must not be helping much actually... It's nothing really big though, it's just an observation.

    UDP Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:16 am Post subject:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sereno wrote:
    I said unintentional because sometimes one can say stupid things without noticing their effect on others. I have read the profiles, but reading and actually understanding are different things. I don't really relate to what is described. Also, they are not really explained in a way that "gets to me." Maybe because it's not in Fi speak .
    Hm. Does my posting help? Or would you want more concrete examples of the specific situations.
    Like I said in the last post, perhaps you could give an example of a situation you are specifically referring to, and we can comment on it more in depth.
    Your posting does help. In general, the type of description that would make me understand more needs to have some sort of "feeling" cause and effect to it. For example, these are descriptions that I would register:

    1) "I don't like you talking about this, because it makes me feel uncomfortable and worthless."
    2) "I like it when people say these types of things to me, because it makes me feel special, that I am needed."
    3) "I don't have a logical reason for not wanting to participate, other than it just makes me uneasy."
    4) "I find it hard to approach other people because I will probably say something that will make me look like an asshole."

    Something like that, instead of just offering no explanation.

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    Copy of above

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    Hm. Someone else requested that I speak more that way, which I do not often do about myself, but I'll give it a shot. I am not sure if I can put this in a general LSE context, but I can speak for myself at least:


    * I do not like when people withhold information from me, because it leaves a lot of questioning as to why people do not reveal things. Do they not trust me? Do they 'not want to hurt me'? Do they not want me to find something out? Are they doing something they are trying to cover up? Are they buying me a big surprise birthday cake? Who knows, really. I am more so that way with people I am closer to - the closer I am, the more I want to know. This is also related to how I go about work, and why I am drawn to leadership or administrative positions. I like to know what is going on and make sure things go well. Being denied information in a job setting is discomforting, because to me it is blocking my power or ability to see what is going on. I dislike being told "you don't need to know this", or variations of such.


    * Here is another 'like'.....
    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    Let me tell you why I like INFjs:

    They don't screw with my emotions. I hate that. I am not saying an EII has never manipulated me, but trying to push and prod me is very bothersome. I am speaking mostly in reference to EIE and ESE - always trying to dictate the emotional atmosphere. You don't know how much I appreciate you guys NOT doing that. I have realized this for a while, but, it came up again recently, furthering what I already know about being Fi>Fe.

    It makes a world of difference, when, RC or Minde says they don't approve of something, or they just explain why I might be in the wrong, compared to...
    "I was sorry to (find this out) ... especially after we had such a nice chat the last time I saw you. ..."
    ...compared to twisting little guilt trips in here and there, or basically addressing me as appealing or not appealing compared to whatever your "image" of me is. No telling me you love everything about me, and then moments later saying you are so disappointed, because you are trying to push or provoke me in your desired direction. No emotional flamboyance.

    You guys are consistent, stable, and relaxed - and that is so very nice. Thank you for being that way.
    I said, and then deleted, that I don't like how some people seem to always press me for emotional stimulation and consequently response. They make it seem like, unless I respond favorably to their emotional charges, they will feel unwelcomed, or even consider me as rude. My ESE room mate told, albeit it in the typical conversation-making sort of way, someone that "my room mate hates me", which is far from the truth. He was just not used to me, or people who don't value , or being on college around people who are not from a small town, as he is. Different environment. However, we both learned more about each other, and now we get along very well. It still gets a little annoying, when I am working on something or minding my own business, and in bursts him, expressing how amazing something or other was, but, I can deal with it.


    Hm, do you have any other questions? I am not sure what you want me to comment on. Above might just be more personal pet peeves, though I do see how they relate to being LSE.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    ESTJ Uncovered:




    [web:336d8eb167]http://spreadmystaplerandflyaway.ytmnd.com/[/web:336d8eb167]


    Lefty
    ENFJ

    "I'm Sick of Old Men Dreaming Up Wars for Young Men To Die In," George McGovern.

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    That's better, and no more questions at the moment.

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    Could you please change that Lefty?

    Everytime I come to the page it has to load. Make it hidden or something, use the spoil tags, or just delete it.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    There was question as to why an LSE can "Calm down".... I was looking at wikisocion and this seems to shed some light on the matter:

    as a creative (2nd) function (ESE and LSE)

    The individual is naturally good at organizing relaxing activities and recreation and getting people to calm down and enjoy themselves, but displays this behavior and skill when he sees a specific need for it rather than doing it automatically, all the time. The individual does not place emphasis on being calm and balanced all the time, as opposed to those with as a leading function.

    The individual is aware of and attuned to people's tastes and personal preferences and likes to do things or give things to friends and family members that will cause them to enjoy themselves and gain pleasure, for example:

    * creating a comfortable, clean, and spacious setting in the home
    * taking them out to do something they enjoy
    * finding opportunities and people with whom they can pursue their hobbies
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    ......
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    .,,
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    ........................
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    .....................................
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    ..............................................





    ....
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    .....................................

    Finally.
    Ok, now on a new page:

    ESTjs are born to be bosses. "Work! Produce! Utilise! And work!" - undoubtedly comes very close to describing ESTj's moto. If you have to work for an ESTj expect a civilised form of slavery. It is guaranteed that they will optimise your job so that you might even find yourself working on your way to work. This makes one wonder about whether the infamous "ARBEIT MACHT FREI" - the "work will set you free" slogan at the gates of Nazi's concentration camps was the sarcastic work of an ESTj "genius". But to be fair, ESTjs do not just demand work from others, they are workaholics themselves. That's maybe why they think it is normal.
    I feel like work is actually what sets me free. All the other bullshit that goes on in your life, that seems to be the one thing you can count on, and focus on, no matter what.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    The damn stapler song keeps loading whenever I try to post something here......


    MODS?? Can't you at least slip a spoil tag on that?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Do ESTjs tend to treat people differently depending on their physical appearance? My boss is an ESTj, but I work online and so we never see each other. This time I had a pic as my msn avatar, and he's just treating me better than I've ever seen.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I am not sure. I know it is very easy to forget about the "human" element, so seeing photos of people, interacting with them, will bring about more personability than just being in a detached, ivory tower sort of position.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Good point yeah
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Do you think your boss might be gay?

    Not being funny or anything, it's just possible. We all know that attraction plays a part in things.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    How can you tell if an ESTj is gay or not? I have seen a lot of them who are metrosexual, but I don't know if this serves as an indicator.

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    Ask them - that seems the only full proof way. Telling from appearance seems difficult, or at least I am generally clueless. They might be bisexual these days, who knows.

    The only other way to know for sure is if you see one groping/etc with another man I suppose.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Well, there is this one time I was walking up the stairs with this ESTj, and he was climbing them behind me instead of beside me, which made me think he was checking me out. It's possible that he just wanted to fart, but it appeared otherwise.

    Another time I was outside my car picking up something in the passenger seat and he was directly behind me while I was bending over to reach something in the floor, instead of waiting on the side. I don't know, but I don't really care about people in general being attracted to me, it's not like I am going to sleep with them for that.

    UDP Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:41 pm Post subject:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Ask them - that seems the only full proof way. Telling from appearance seems difficult, or at least I am generally clueless. They might be bisexual these days, who knows.

    The only other way to know for sure is if you see one groping/etc with another man I suppose.
    lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno
    Well, there is this one time I was walking up the stairs with this ESTj, and he was climbing them behind me instead of beside me, which made me think he was checking me out. It's possible that he just wanted to fart, but it appeared otherwise.

    Another time I was outside my car picking up something in the passenger seat and he was directly behind me while I was bending over to reach something in the floor, instead of waiting on the side. I don't know, but I don't really care about people in general being attracted to me, it's not like I am going to sleep with them for that.
    lol

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