View Poll Results: Who's the best philospher?

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  • INTp

    6 14.29%
  • INTj

    3 7.14%
  • ENTp

    5 11.90%
  • ENTj

    2 4.76%
  • ISTp

    2 4.76%
  • ESTj

    3 7.14%
  • ESFp

    2 4.76%
  • ESFj

    5 11.90%
  • ISFp

    2 4.76%
  • ISFj

    1 2.38%
  • ENFp

    1 2.38%
  • INFj

    3 7.14%
  • ENFj

    2 4.76%
  • INFp

    1 2.38%
  • ISTj

    2 4.76%
  • ESTp

    2 4.76%
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Thread: LII or ILI?

  1. #1
    liveandletlive's Avatar
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    Default LII or ILI?

    Who's the better philosopher and why? [web:673ace9eb5]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/philosopher[/web:673ace9eb5]
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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    LII. A well developed system of views that is valued (Ti base), and an aptitude for possibilities (Ne creative).

    Te and philosophy don't mix as well. They're simply not as interested.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    That's a loaded question, but I think INTjs are somewhat more likely to be interested in philosophy.

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    dunno...some philosophies are extremely pragmatic, although i can't think of one off the top of my head....

    but philosophy belongs primarily in the land of alpha.

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    Depends on what we think the value of philosophy is. Although I envy the raw natural talent that INTj's bring to the philosophical table, sometimes I think they get way too involved in the theory of things. Ideally, I think philosophy is about how you live your life. It really is 'the love of wisdom' and the application of those lessons to the very way you approach the world, and one another. It's probably my Fi talking, but what drew me was the search for true values. There was a time when I thought that meant something objective and out there for everyone to see, but as I've read and looked and lived, that seems to be increasingly not the case. As Wittgenstein might say, it was something that might be shown, but never said. So that's kind of been my goal: to show what it is I value through my actions, to be the change I want to see in the world. In the end, I think that's as much as one person can do, just be an example and try to help others along with finding the type of person they are and want to be.

    For this reason, while I think alpha NTs have done the most in furthering the logical and cognitive aspects of the field, I have a soft spot for NF philosophers. For the most part, these kind of people I don't think end up in philosophy as a study. Sometimes the works I find to be of more philosophical value are more poetic or symbolic expressions. Examples of this would include Marcus Aurelius's Meditations, Dostoevsky's Notes From the Underground, or W.E.B. Du Bois's The Souls of Black Folk. Heck, I might even throw in Carl Jung's Psychological Types. Even though he was an INTj, it seemed like he was able to 'bridge the gap', so to speak. Then there is Eastern philosophy in general. Chuang Tzu always struck me as particularly interesting and, to a lesser extent, so did Mo Tzu and Confucius (although in both of them, as much as they got right, they also seemed off in some ways).
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    This is a dumb question.
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    Yeah...Sorry, L&LL, but this is the kind of thing that bad typings are made of.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    LSE, of course.

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    I remember a topic where Socrates was typed as an ISTJ by some people...

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    So? You make it sound like you think that's unreasonable. My philosophy professor and advisor is an LSI; Se subtype, even. Stereo-"typing" is evil as fuck.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  11. #11

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    also, there are a myriad of different possible interpretations of philosophy. define philosophy.

    linking to a dictionary.com entry saying "philosopher, n., someone with an interest in philosophy"

    is not sufficient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    also, there are a myriad of different possible interpretations of philosophy. define philosophy.

    linking to a dictionary.com entry saying "philosopher, n., someone with an interest in philosophy"

    is not sufficient.
    'tis true... just getting us started is all...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    This is a dumb question.
    there's no such thing... and i like it so boooo!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    I remember a topic where Socrates was typed as an ISTJ by some people...
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    So? You make it sound like you think that's unreasonable.
    It is without doubt unreasonable. Even though we can never know for sure which type Socrates was, there is nothing in his behaviour, his attitudes, his ideas etc. that suggest that ISTj is even remotely likely. If he really was an ISTj, we have a totally incorrect view on his person. It is simply totally ridiculous to suggest that Socrates was an ISTj.

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    I think they are almost equal in terms of philosophy.

    ILI are quite pensive individuals as we know, but are more quiet and do not expose their philosophical opinions unless queried about it.

    My father is a stereotypical LII, and he will launch into abstract thinking in a heartbeat, and it seems he could never tire discussing world affairs, ideas, etc with almost anyone who is willing to listen to his lectures.

    Overall, I think they are equally good philosophers, but LII are more apt to express their opinions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    I remember a topic where Socrates was typed as an ISTJ by some people...
    Yes, me. I still believe he is an LSI. Why do you think otherwise?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    LII. A well developed system of views that is valued (Ti base), and an aptitude for possibilities (Ne creative).

    Te and philosophy don't mix as well. They're simply not as interested.
    Most likely, but with a minor caveat; as an ISTp, philosophy is interesting and easily grasped if personally relevent.
    SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype

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    Quote Originally Posted by force my hand
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    LII. A well developed system of views that is valued (Ti base), and an aptitude for possibilities (Ne creative).

    Te and philosophy don't mix as well. They're simply not as interested.
    Most likely, but with a minor caveat; as an ISTp, philosophy is interesting and easily grasped if personally relevent.
    Doesn't that indicate a more ethical approach?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  19. #19

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    What makes a philosopher good anyway?

    They all suck
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

  20. #20
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    "Wherever you go... there you are."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    I remember a topic where Socrates was typed as an ISTJ by some people...
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    So? You make it sound like you think that's unreasonable.
    It is without doubt unreasonable. Even though we can never know for sure which type Socrates was, there is nothing in his behaviour, his attitudes, his ideas etc. that suggest that ISTj is even remotely likely. If he really was an ISTj, we have a totally incorrect view on his person. It is simply totally ridiculous to suggest that Socrates was an ISTj.
    Oh, ok. Never thought of it like that.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  22. #22
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    I remember a topic where Socrates was typed as an ISTJ by some people...
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    So? You make it sound like you think that's unreasonable.
    It is without doubt unreasonable. Even though we can never know for sure which type Socrates was, there is nothing in his behaviour, his attitudes, his ideas etc. that suggest that ISTj is even remotely likely. If he really was an ISTj, we have a totally incorrect view on his person. It is simply totally ridiculous to suggest that Socrates was an ISTj.
    Oh, ok. Never thought of it like that.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by force my hand
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    LII. A well developed system of views that is valued (Ti base), and an aptitude for possibilities (Ne creative).

    Te and philosophy don't mix as well. They're simply not as interested.
    Most likely, but with a minor caveat; as an ISTp, philosophy is interesting and easily grasped if personally relevent.
    Doesn't that indicate a more ethical approach?
    Maybe, maybe not - but to say Te is simply not interested is incorrect.
    SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Te and philosophy don't mix as well. They're simply not as interested.
    Untrue.
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    Unless you want to talk about Te as an Information Aspect.
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    Philosophy is largely about unseen connections.

    Ne, Ni, Fe, Fi > Se, Si, Te, Ti

    Ti, Fi > Te, Fe


    I guess I'll say that Ti, Fi, Ne, and Ni ego types are most likely to be philosophical in nature. Especially Ni and Ne.
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    I used to be very philosophical back when I was younger and had more time on my hands. Nowadays I'm too preoccupied with leisure and escapism just to get my energy back to think much about philosophy. To the extent I can't even remember what half my philosophical views are now.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLauritson
    I used to be very philosophical back when I was younger and had more time on my hands. Nowadays I'm too preoccupied with leisure and escapism just to get my energy back to think much about philosophy. To the extent I can't even remember what half my philosophical views are now.
    if it makes you feel any better it's practically impossible for me to escape into my own mind like you guys can. i must rely on other methods like drugs, excessive sleeping, and procrastination. at least you know you have the capacity to be able to get your philosophical views back if you really wanted to
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  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2
    Depends on what we think the value of philosophy is. Although I envy the raw natural talent that INTj's bring to the philosophical table, sometimes I think they get way too involved in the theory of things. Ideally, I think philosophy is about how you live your life. It really is 'the love of wisdom' and the application of those lessons to the very way you approach the world, and one another. It's probably my Fi talking, but what drew me was the search for true values. There was a time when I thought that meant something objective and out there for everyone to see, but as I've read and looked and lived, that seems to be increasingly not the case. As Wittgenstein might say, it was something that might be shown, but never said. So that's kind of been my goal: to show what it is I value through my actions, to be the change I want to see in the world. In the end, I think that's as much as one person can do, just be an example and try to help others along with finding the type of person they are and want to be.

    For this reason, while I think alpha NTs have done the most in furthering the logical and cognitive aspects of the field, I have a soft spot for NF philosophers. For the most part, these kind of people I don't think end up in philosophy as a study. Sometimes the works I find to be of more philosophical value are more poetic or symbolic expressions. Examples of this would include Marcus Aurelius's Meditations, Dostoevsky's Notes From the Underground, or W.E.B. Du Bois's The Souls of Black Folk. Heck, I might even throw in Carl Jung's Psychological Types. Even though he was an INTj, it seemed like he was able to 'bridge the gap', so to speak. Then there is Eastern philosophy in general. Chuang Tzu always struck me as particularly interesting and, to a lesser extent, so did Mo Tzu and Confucius (although in both of them, as much as they got right, they also seemed off in some ways).
    Can't argue with someone who reads Wittgenstein.

    P.S.: Does your username mean what I, *ahem*, think it means? :wink:

  30. #30
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    Haha, it's taken from the swordsman of the same name (of the Yagyu family of swordsmen). As to the literal meaning, my technical (yet spotty) understanding would translate something like 'chesthair' (mune - chest, nori - seaweed)? I hope it's not something obscene or anything.
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  31. #31

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    Well, your translation is much better than what I was thinking. I was thinking 'nori' as in 乗り, or 'riding, to ride', and well...look up the word パイズリ, I'll tell you that much.

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    my vote goes to EIEs. They have this way of "just knowing" some things and often discuss and question humanity. As munenori2 wrote, it is often how you live your life that makes you a philosopher. I guess it's different depending on what you value, but being tolerable, and understanding others, and being known as the "teacher" or "mentor" and wanting to help others with their lives is a huge deal. Then again I'm sure many of these qualities can be generalized to all NFs- I just have a propensity to emulate my benefactor :wink:
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    I don't even think we're all using the same definition of philosophy in this topic.

    IOWTT is a complete failure
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Unless you want to talk about Te as an Information Aspect.
    It occurred to me after I posted that this was indeed the case, and that we were approaching the concept from two different contexts.
    SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype

  35. #35
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    can't it be dependent on everyone's own interpretation and definition of philosophy and philosopher and hence the different points of view on the best philosopher?
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    "can't it be dependent on everyone's own interpretation and definition of philosophy and philosopher and hence the different points of view on the best philosopher?"

    If all you want is different people's views on equally different views of philosophy, then sure.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    "can't it be dependent on everyone's own interpretation and definition of philosophy and philosopher and hence the different points of view on the best philosopher?"

    If all you want is different people's views on equally different views of philosophy, then sure.
    well in deciding what they value in a philosopher they are essentially answering my question and also telling us about what their type values at the same time... not exactly where i wanted to go with it but it seems inevitable and why not? could be interesting...
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