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Thread: Being fake for the purpose of fitting in

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    Default Being fake for the purpose of fitting in

    I was wondering. A bunch of guys met together to watch the game and there is one that was a "tag along". We didn't invite him, he came with another friend and he could not shake him off. Naturally we wouldn't dream of inviting him. Well, the tag along is constantly making fake jokes and trying to forcefully "fit in", generally, he is fake because he thinks that in a certain situation a person is suppose to act a certain way and because this is not remotely how he naturally acts he resorts to "acting" and because he has no ability to act this attempt at fakeness is beyond obvious and he just comes off as a loser, a total wannabe. Anyway we are watching and naturally when our team scores, and this is an important game, we all jump and you know, start acting all loud and rowdy. And he is constantly criticizing us for being loud the "Could you keep it down!?!?!" stuff and so on. But at these moments he is not faking it, his irritation is real and he means it. Which makes him appear even more of a loser because on top of trying to destroy the natural atmosphere by being completely fake and a total wannabe he is trying to end everybody's good mood. So I'm wondering ... is he dominant? And to the answer to the previous question, why exactly?

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    Actually, the fakeness you speak of sounds like Fe dominance. Why is he telling to keep it down? Because he himself wants to control the mood, and you're not abiding by it.

    Also, when you naturally feel pushed out by people, you begin to criticise what your 'group' does.

    I tend to stay away from group mentality at all cost. It's fucking pathetic when people gather together to council on what each individual should do: "let's all decide what Tom should do. Let's all decide what Sarah should do". It's like fucking democracy on a small scale. None of them can take it. I need to rule them all so that they can each of them learn to be more self-sufficient. At the same time, it systematically excludes people, and only leads to more conflict between individuals. I say rid the world of this shit. It's either the individual or it is one whole. And since it can't be a joint world, it should be the individual. Thatcher had it right.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    He sounds like he needs 3 cans of ass whoopage.

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    ESTj maybe?

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    Well, he lives in a dorm and he's the guy that reports people at friday and saturday night for playing loud music, for having more then two people in the room at the same time, for leaving the toilet unclean and when any possible rule is not abided to-the-letter.

    If it's of any relevance I gave him a MBTI test a long time ago and he came out as INTJ. Personally I don't think he's LII. I'd peg him as either a gamma or delta type. An EJ of some kind. Oh, and do you people need more info?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Actually, the fakeness you speak of sounds like Fe dominance. Why is he telling to keep it down? Because he himself wants to control the mood, and you're not abiding by it.
    Hmm, I wouldn't really peg him as a dominant, but now that you mention it... he does seem incredible ESE-ish (I actually have an ESE friend with the exact same thing in faking it. He tries too much to fit in and comes off as a total wanabee and always gets rejected and treated as a loser. And I know one ESE that also does the exact same thing, like for example he faked drinking and being drunk. He acted all drunk when he didn't even take a sip of alcohol from the bottle. They told me latter they noticed. I find that sad . He could've just said no thanks, nobody was forcing him or anything. I mean I don't drink. But he wanted to be "cool" and "the man")

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    I cannot fathom why anyone would allow him/herself to being treated like that.

    Anyways, he wasn't acting fake because he's one type or another, he was acting fake because he was self-conscious. That said...

    He's obviously not Beta, and Alpha seems somewhat unlikely. Weak/unvalued Se, and it seems more likely than not that he's a logical type. That's about all I can get from your story.
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    If I had to guess, I'd say LSE... of course, I don't have much to go on so I could be way off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Well, he lives in a dorm and he's the guy that reports people at friday and saturday night for playing loud music, for having more then two people in the room at the same time, for leaving the toilet unclean and when any possible rule is not abided to-the-letter.

    If it's of any relevance I gave him a MBTI test a long time ago and he came out as INTJ. Personally I don't think he's LII. I'd peg him as either a gamma or delta type. An EJ of some kind. Oh, and do you people need more info?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Actually, the fakeness you speak of sounds like Fe dominance. Why is he telling to keep it down? Because he himself wants to control the mood, and you're not abiding by it.
    Hmm, I wouldn't really peg him as a dominant, but now that you mention it... he does seem incredible ESE-ish (I actually have an ESE friend with the exact same thing in faking it. He tries too much to fit in and comes off as a total wanabee and always gets rejected and treated as a loser. And I know one ESE that also does the exact same thing, like for example he faked drinking and being drunk. He acted all drunk when he didn't even take a sip of alcohol from the bottle. They told me latter they noticed. I find that sad . He could've just said no thanks, nobody was forcing him or anything. I mean I don't drink. But he wanted to be "cool" and "the man")
    Yeah more info please. From your description sounded like he wanted predictability from his perspective so I thought ej temperament, or could be IJ temperament. If IJ, he could be using creative Se. It doesn't sound like Fi is in his ego, or in id.

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    Default Re: Being fake for the purpose of fitting in

    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Anyway we are watching and naturally when our team scores, and this is an important game, we all jump and you know, start acting all loud and rowdy. And he is constantly criticizing us for being loud the "Could you keep it down!?!?!" stuff and so on. But at these moments he is not faking it, his irritation is real and he means it. Which makes him appear even more of a loser because on top of trying to destroy the natural atmosphere by being completely fake and a total wannabe he is trying to end everybody's good mood.
    My guess would be ENTj.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95
    as a service to those learning english, i bolded some important vocabulary words for this thread:

    I was wondering. A bunch of guys met together to watch the game and there is one that was a "tag along". We didn't invite him, he came with another friend and he could not shake him off. Naturally we wouldn't dream of inviting him. Well, the tag along is constantly making fake jokes and trying to forcefully "fit in", generally, he is fake because he thinks that in a certain situation a person is suppose to act a certain way and because this is not remotely how he naturally acts he resorts to "acting" and because he has no ability to act this attempt at fakeness is beyond obvious and he just comes off as a loser, a total wannabe. Anyway we are watching and naturally when our team scores, and this is an important game, we all jump and you know, start acting all loud and rowdy. And he is constantly criticizing us for being loud the "Could you keep it down!?!?!" stuff and so on. But at these moments he is not faking it, his irritation is real and he means it. Which makes him appear even more of a loser because on top of trying to destroy the natural atmosphere by being completely fake and a total wannabe he is trying to end everybody's good mood. So I'm wondering ... is he Fi dominant? And to the answer to the previous question, why exactly?


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    Well, more of his personality. The reason he's so fucked up, at least from what people have told me, it's because of his mother. I don't know exactly what happened to his father but apparently his mother pushed him too much. From an early age. Gave him all kinds of complexes. The ones about perfection in school and everywhere else. I think if it weren't for his mother he would've been completely normal. Now, having said that, it's hard to find things about him, personality traits, that aren't in direct correspondence to these complexes. Hmmm, he always has a girlfriend. And good looking, normal people as well. Which baffles those who know him. He's a bit elitist but I'm also not sure how much this has to do with the complexes. But I doubt his complexes would make him annoyed with me and treat me as somehow inferior. And he always says my ideas are completely unrealistic and that I'm wasting my time with my efforts. Incredibly good at fixing things technology related. And willing. I think in this segment the complexes manifest themselves as wanting to do the best job possible and spare no effort in doing so while his personality is him being able to quickly asses and efficiently resolve the issue. Very "nerd" like, but not sure how much this has to do with him or the instilled aspects of him. Completely defines aspects of himself like health or behavior through accepted norms or authorities in the field. Like for example he'll get a silly idea in his head, which doesn't have to be true at all, and follow it to the letter. Ok, the fundamentalist part are the complexes but the idea he gets I think are him. Like for example he wanted to lose weight, and I don't know why because he looks completely normal to me, and started eating integral bread. Now, if he'd actually done some research he would've found out that integral bread actually makes you fatter. He approached the whole issues very shallowly and simply expected things to turn out as he desired. Like when he fakes social interaction. He once told us that he makes up jokes and things to say at home. And pick up lines as well but I don't think he actually said that, you can see it. I remember one very distinct that a friend of mine told me he saw him use "Did you know that every even palindrome is divisible by eleven?".

    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95
    as a service to those learning english, i bolded some important vocabulary words for this thread:

    I was wondering. A bunch of guys met together to watch the game and there is one that was a "tag along". We didn't invite him, he came with another friend and he could not shake him off. Naturally we wouldn't dream of inviting him. Well, the tag along is constantly making fake jokes and trying to forcefully "fit in", generally, he is fake because he thinks that in a certain situation a person is suppose to act a certain way and because this is not remotely how he naturally acts he resorts to "acting" and because he has no ability to act this attempt at fakeness is beyond obvious and he just comes off as a loser, a total wannabe. Anyway we are watching and naturally when our team scores, and this is an important game, we all jump and you know, start acting all loud and rowdy. And he is constantly criticizing us for being loud the "Could you keep it down!?!?!" stuff and so on. But at these moments he is not faking it, his irritation is real and he means it. Which makes him appear even more of a loser because on top of trying to destroy the natural atmosphere by being completely fake and a total wannabe he is trying to end everybody's good mood. So I'm wondering ... is he Fi dominant? And to the answer to the previous question, why exactly?
    ... I don't get it ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by plantrootz
    ESTj maybe?
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    If I had to guess, I'd say LSE... of course, I don't have much to go on so I could be way off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hostage_Child
    Personally, it reminds me of some LSE behavior I've seen.
    Man, if this guy is LSE, they have gone completely down in my opinion. What a loser. I thought LSEs would never go and do something like this. They don't care about fitting in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Man, if this guy is LSE, they have gone completely down in my opinion. What a loser. I thought LSEs would never go and do something like this. They don't care about fitting in.
    Well neither does he really. It's more of it being completely forced and unnatural, it's like, he sees this as something that is suppose to be, he is suppose to be an outstanding individual, student, citizen, person, whatever, and he will make that square peg fit into that round hole even if it kills him.

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    The first moment I thought ISTp, but he sounds very ESTj. Many of his traits are the reason why I thought Ezra is ESTj.


    He does not sound ESFj. ESFjs who have this exaggerated fake behavior seem to know what they are doing and where they are going with that. But that guy is just guessing. And as for Ezra who said that this sort of faking is Fe dominant, ummm... go back to socionics school and start from ABC.
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    somebody should gently let him know he's in the wrong crowd and would be happier with people his own "speed" (not sure if that can be done without hurting feelings but it's the truth... he'd be happier that way I'm sure and the quicker it gets dealt with the less time he wastes on "fitting in" where he doesn't fit in)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    The first moment I thought ISTp, but he sounds very ESTj. Many of his traits are the reason why I thought Ezra is ESTj.
    Such as?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    And as for Ezra who said that this sort of faking is Fe dominant, ummm... go back to socionics school and start from ABC.
    Remind me again what it is to do with.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    somebody should gently let him know he's in the wrong crowd and would be happier with people his own "speed" (not sure if that can be done without hurting feelings but it's the truth... he'd be happier that way I'm sure and the quicker it gets dealt with the less time he wastes on "fitting in" where he doesn't fit in)
    Oh, he knows that. I forgot to mention, he's intelligent. He is being purposely fake (But being a bastard and reporting people for every little things is all him) because that is the way people are suppose to act when in that type of situation. It's like, he doesn't truly understand the situation but thinks he does and is trying to act accordingly to what he thinks is appropriate. Which is in reality the exact opposite of what is appropriate. But to be completely honest I think he knows this and is just deliberately doing it to but heads as he is annoyed by that kind of behavior, what is often attributed to "beta behavior". But I'm not sure because if he is really LSE then that kind of wrong attribution of motivation of his actions on my part is the precise thing that would happen when I would see him begin delta-ish and non beta-ish. Like he is doing things wrong purposefully.

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    he sounds like a total bastard

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    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95
    as a service to those learning english, i bolded some important vocabulary words for this thread:

    I was wondering. A bunch of guys met together to watch the game and there is one that was a "tag along". We didn't invite him, he came with another friend and he could not shake him off. Naturally we wouldn't dream of inviting him. Well, the tag along is constantly making fake jokes and trying to forcefully "fit in", generally, he is fake because he thinks that in a certain situation a person is suppose to act a certain way and because this is not remotely how he naturally acts he resorts to "acting" and because he has no ability to act this attempt at fakeness is beyond obvious and he just comes off as a loser, a total wannabe. Anyway we are watching and naturally when our team scores, and this is an important game, we all jump and you know, start acting all loud and rowdy. And he is constantly criticizing us for being loud the "Could you keep it down!?!?!" stuff and so on. But at these moments he is not faking it, his irritation is real and he means it. Which makes him appear even more of a loser because on top of trying to destroy the natural atmosphere by being completely fake and a total wannabe he is trying to end everybody's good mood. So I'm wondering ... is he Fi dominant? And to the answer to the previous question, why exactly?
    ... I don't get it ...
    My first thought was when I read the opening post was "Wow... Why the hell would this guy want to hang around that group of assholes? Does he have a crush on someone in the group or something? Or maybe he's just really lonely?"
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    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    somebody should gently let him know he's in the wrong crowd and would be happier with people his own "speed" (not sure if that can be done without hurting feelings but it's the truth... he'd be happier that way I'm sure and the quicker it gets dealt with the less time he wastes on "fitting in" where he doesn't fit in)
    Oh, he knows that. I forgot to mention, he's intelligent. He is being purposely fake (But being a bastard and reporting people for every little things is all him) because that is the way people are suppose to act when in that type of situation. It's like, he doesn't truly understand the situation but thinks he does and is trying to act accordingly to what he thinks is appropriate. Which is in reality the exact opposite of what is appropriate. But to be completely honest I think he knows this and is just deliberately doing it to but heads as he is annoyed by that kind of behavior, what is often attributed to "beta behavior". But I'm not sure because if he is really LSE then that kind of wrong attribution of motivation of his actions on my part is the precise thing that would happen when I would see him begin delta-ish and non beta-ish. Like he is doing things wrong purposefully.
    Maybe he's SLI.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    he sounds like a total bastard
    Wow, really? I kinda like him. As an individual. He's really capable and friendly. Just with complexes about proper behavior, presenting the right image to others, the things I've described. He's actually quite enjoyable alone, you can talk and he is quite sharp. Just, you know, fucked up when in society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    he sounds like a total bastard
    Wow, really? I kinda like him. As an individual. He's really capable and friendly. Just with complexes about proper behavior, presenting the right image to others, the things I've described. He's actually quite enjoyable alone, you can talk and he is quite sharp. Just, you know, fucked up when in society.
    I was being humorously dramatic... (sorry, Alphas )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    And as for Ezra who said that this sort of faking is Fe dominant, ummm... go back to socionics school and start from ABC.
    Remind me again what it is to do with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Actually, the fakeness you speak of sounds like Fe dominance. Why is he telling to keep it down? Because he himself wants to control the mood, and you're not abiding by it.
    There is no way I'd behave like this and I haven't seen Fe dominants behaving like that. I have, however, seen one ESTp and one ESTj behave like that. I used to have then both typed as ESTx subtype asshole.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    My first thought was when I read the opening post was "Wow... Why the hell would this guy want to hang around that group of assholes? Does he have a crush on someone in the group or something? Or maybe he's just really lonely?"
    I think it was that, and I presume, he saw it as a social event, a get together, and just wanted to be a part of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    he sounds like a total bastard
    Wow, really? I kinda like him. As an individual. He's really capable and friendly. Just with complexes about proper behavior, presenting the right image to others, the things I've described. He's actually quite enjoyable alone, you can talk and he is quite sharp. Just, you know, fucked up when in society.
    I was being humorously dramatic... (sorry, Alphas )
    Oh, sorry, I have a nasty tendency to take what people say at face value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Maybe he's SLI.
    How come an irrational type?

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    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    he sounds like a total bastard
    Wow, really? I kinda like him. As an individual. He's really capable and friendly. Just with complexes about proper behavior, presenting the right image to others, the things I've described. He's actually quite enjoyable alone, you can talk and he is quite sharp. Just, you know, fucked up when in society.
    I was being humorously dramatic... (sorry, Alphas )
    Oh, sorry, I have a nasty tendency to take what people say at face value.
    well I'm randomly serious/full-of-shit so maybe we should go back to not interacting much

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    well I'm randomly serious/full-of-shit so maybe we should go back to not interacting much
    ... I don't get it

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    I meant that half the time I'm serious and the other half I'm joking and it can be hard to tell which is which sometimes. In other words.. nevermind... it's all good.

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    Ok.

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    Umm I'm not sure what you are talking about but...yes, he probably just has low self-esteem and wants to fit in. Instead of poking fun of his fake-ery you could show compassion and I don't know, try to genuinely help him out? It's just a suggestion. The bad thing about those types of people is that they are annoying. The good thing about those types of people is that they are like little lambs waiting for a shepherd to lead them in the right direction.

    Most people are just average-minded and are nice people, but think that things like pretending to like football and hiding their homosexuality, are going to make them socially acceptable. Only thing is it is a false sense of true happiness. And nothing to do with or .

    As for that being fucked up in society thing, aren't we all like that? Don't tell me you're this mister cool person all the time that is never worried about how other people see you, you obviously follow social norms yourself. I mean watching the game with the guys lol. This has 'you're not telling us everything' written all over it.

    Basically everybody is a dork and either you accept your dorkiness and lame-ness or you spend your entire life trying to cover it up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves
    I mean watching the game with the guys lol. This has 'you're not telling us everything' written all over it.

    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves
    Umm I'm not sure what you are talking about but...yes, he probably just has low self-esteem and wants to fit in.
    No, I wouldn't say that, in order to go so "bravely" against the norm think you have to be pretty self confident. He doesn't adapt in order to fit in, lets otehrs take advantage of him, as you would see from somebody with low self esteem, he caries himself quite strongly and even could be said tries to impose his way of things.

    Instead of poking fun of his fake-ery you could show compassion and I don't know, try to genuinely help him out? It's just a suggestion.
    Well, you can't really help him because that's just the way he is. If you treat him like he's wrong he gets angry and pissed off. And to be honest I kind of agree with him in certain matters.

    The bad thing about those types of people is that they are annoying. The good thing about those types of people is that they are like little lambs waiting for a shepherd to lead them in the right direction.
    Well, like I explained above, he's not wanting to be led, but trying to lead.

    Most people are just average-minded and are nice people, but think that things like pretending to like football and hiding their homosexuality, are going to make them socially acceptable. Only thing is it is a false sense of true happiness. And nothing to do with or .
    Yeah, yeah, that's it. He acts as if doing things like this will make him more socially acceptable. Except that he can't really judge what is and isn't socially acceptable.

    As for that being fucked up in society thing, aren't we all like that? Don't tell me you're this mister cool person all the time that is never worried about how other people see you, you obviously follow social norms yourself.
    Actually, I don't care how other people see me. Like how I use to joke with a friend of mine, he has no sympathy and I have no shame. I have no problems with being the way I am and if people don't like it, well, that's their problem. If I obey social normes it's because they accidentally align with what I wanted to do or they are imposed upon me by consequences, read, punishment.

    I mean watching the game with the guys lol. This has 'you're not telling us everything' written all over it.
    Actually I wasn't watching the game, I was playing games at the computer. I don't watch sports. I find them annoying. I actually didn't notice him not fitting in, he was his usual self, with his extreme form of humor and a sense of purpose and righteousness. He fixed some stuff on our computer that night. I was later informed by a friend of his version of the situation (Which is what I posted in the first post). And we gather at out place because my roommate is ILE and likes that kind of stuff and I don't mind it despite that I don't engage in it. I just do my thing regardless. People have a habit of complaining that I'm a bad host. Like for example, I don't great them when they come in, don't even bother to engage them, don't take my headphones off when they are talking to me and so on.

    Basically everybody is a dork and either you accept your dorkiness and lame-ness or you spend your entire life trying to cover it up.
    Sounds like just wishful thinking to me. Or rationalization. Or projection.

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    Wishful thinking? No. Projection? Nah. It's based on experiences and getting to know people a bit underneath the surface is all. What they would only tell you in private in their own living rooms with the lights down to a respectable 30-40 watts.

    Wishful thinking is more like 'Everybody is a good, loveable person.' I didn't say that. I said everybody was a dork. A dork is a dork is a dork. It doesn't mean you'll achieve ....anything, but it's part of the human condition that keeps us from not hurting other people.

    *in all light-heartedness:

    Challenge me again bitches.

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    Except that he can't really judge what is and isn't socially acceptable.
    And you can? I smell hubris. If people really figured all this stuff out we wouldn't have half of the problems we have in our society today.

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    ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves
    Wishful thinking? No. Projection? Nah. It's based on experiences and getting to know people a bit underneath the surface is all. What they would only tell you in private in their own living rooms with the lights down to a respectable 30-40 watts.

    Wishful thinking is more like 'Everybody is a good, loveable person.' I didn't say that. I said everybody was a dork. A dork is a dork is a dork. It doesn't mean you'll achieve ....anything, but it's part of the human condition that keeps us from not hurting other people.

    *in all light-heartedness:

    Challenge me again bitches.
    I do not have some arbitrary flaws you decided I have. You do not define me and have no say in it.

    (Which I guess could be said to be kind of hypocritical in light of this topic)

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves
    Except that he can't really judge what is and isn't socially acceptable.
    And you can? I smell hubris. If people really figured all this stuff out we wouldn't have half of the problems we have in our society today.
    Well, it's not really hard to notice when almost everybody tends to avoid him, and says he's fucked up when talking privately to them. And when he comes by, talks, and goes away leaves people looking at each other asking themselves wtf was that?. People who have never met him btw. This is not something subtle, it's in your face.

    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr
    Are you sure you're not projecting your conflictor on this guy, because it sure sounds like it..

    Maybe he is... but it sure seems like you're giving this guy a big shaft....
    Actually for the most part I'm relaying what other people have told me. I have normal experiences with him, with engagement in some sort of discussion on something.

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    I agree with UDP (sorry, that's easier than keeping track of your name changes) and Ezra, Enneagram 3.

    And ENFj.

    He's not using Fe as role function; he's just incompetent and immature. He's like an ESTj or ENTj who behaves like a know-it-all in a subject he's not as well-informed as he thinks he is.

    He values Fe, but he's not evaluating properly the effect on others. I knew a guy exactly like that, too. A historical example is Kaiser Wilhelm II. Exactly the same behavior.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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