Does Illusionary ever look like Semi-dual?

[Blaze]

i was reading over the ganin description of semi duality and i thought it described the illusionary relation i am in a lot better than the illusionary description does. then i thought well could he be istp? no. could i be esfp? absolutely not. but the semi dual description fits a lot better....it's almost completely accurate.

anybody else notice this? if so, why do we think so?

[Jarno]

If we look at the main traits of both relationships, we could describe them as follows:

Illusionary: drawn to eachother by friendship, growing laziness
Semi Dual: drawn to eachother by complement, getting energized

So both have the element of being drawn towards eachother, which could make it confusing maybe.
But you should be able to spot the (huge) difference in energy you receive or give.

The dual seeking function is easely spotted in semi duality. It's probably an advantage if you experienced both relationships, so you can more easely make a comparison.

But by just looking at the descriptions...then it's possible to mistake one for the other

[Jonathan]

i was reading over the ganin description of semi duality and i thought it described the illusionary relation i am in a lot better than the illusionary description does. then i thought well could he be istp? no. could i be esfp? absolutely not. but the semi dual description fits a lot better....it's almost completely accurate.

anybody else notice this? if so, why do we think so?

From what I've heard, and observations, illusionary is often supposed to be better (have fewer problems) than semi-duality.

[Expat]

I think that the "intermediate" relationships, such as semi-dual as compared to illusion, or benefit as compared to supervision, will often be difficult to differentiate if you try to look only at how the relationships themselves are playing out according to descriptions.

It is far better to look precisely at why a relationship between two individuals is developing in a particular way. Then you can see which functions are at play, if any.

[Blaze]

If we look at the main traits of both relationships, we could describe them as follows:

Illusionary: drawn to eachother by friendship, growing laziness
Semi Dual: drawn to eachother by complement, getting energized

So both have the element of being drawn towards eachother, which could make it confusing maybe.
But you should be able to spot the (huge) difference in energy you receive or give.

The dual seeking function is easely spotted in semi duality. It's probably an advantage if you experienced both relationships, so you can more easely make a comparison.

But by just looking at the descriptions...then it's possible to mistake one for the other

seems like drawn to each other by complement, getting energized fits better. there is also a moth to flame quality to it...but we always resolve things.

but he's definitely IEI and i'm definitly ILE, so there's not question it's illusionary. but at this stage of life, i'm not sure how important this really is. we're both pretty well developed!

[Blaze]

I think that the "intermediate" relationships, such as semi-dual as compared to illusion, or benefit as compared to supervision, will often be difficult to differentiate if you try to look only at how the relationships themselves are playing out according to descriptions.

It is far better to look precisely at why a relationship between two individuals is developing in a particular way. Then you can see which functions are at play, if any.

well....i think i see....care to expand on what you mean a little?

[Ms. Kensington]

But you should be able to spot the (huge) difference in energy you receive or give.

i agree with this 100%. Good job Jarno

[Ms. Kensington]

there is also a moth to flame quality to it...but we always resolve things.

moth to flame is how i feel about illusionaries. Its annoying, because it is draining but it just feels good.

With semi dual I do feel energized because I feel there is the effortless understanding. ways of implementing tasks are conflicting but I feel as if the semi dual gives me something that calms me and lets me feel recharged.

[Rick]

For me, semi-duals seem "deep" but end up being not very useful, while mirage types seem useful, but not very deep. When someone is strong in your 5th function, it seems like they have this chasm of depth to them that really draws you. Illusionary types don't touch that function, but they are quickly recognized as being useful (because of their "useful" 2nd function). I'm not sure this sensation applies to all types.

[Ms. Kensington]

rick, why do you think it is that dual relations are often described as complacent but that semi dual ones are described as feeling deep and intense?

[Rick]

rick, why do you think it is that dual relations are often described as complacent but that semi dual ones are described as feeling deep and intense?

Hm... "Intense" implies a close relationship to begin with. The intensity comes from partners stimulating each other's 8 functions, which puts them a little bit out of whack and sort of overstimulates them. Plus, in the long run, partners try to "fix" the partner's behavior structure and value structure, which are close to right but "not quite right." If they were way off to begin with, perhaps partners wouldn't even care.

I would say that dual relations are both deep and "useful." Emotional intensity sometimes enters -- but only whenever uncertainty in the relationship arises, but generally things are pretty comfortable. If "intensity" means "intensity of interaction" and not "emotional intensity," then dual relations can be very intense.

[Blaze]

For me, semi-duals seem "deep" but end up being not very useful, while mirage types seem useful, but not very deep. When someone is strong in your 5th function, it seems like they have this chasm of depth to them that really draws you. Illusionary types don't touch that function, but they are quickly recognized as being useful (because of their "useful" 2nd function). I'm not sure this sensation applies to all types.

i have thought about this and realize you could be right, rick. for me, there is a slide-ey feeling with illusionary. like infp man said, "we're not 100% solid yet." yet we are quite useful to each other, especially right now both being post divorce and having to get some learning and growth and plan appropriate next steps for our lives.

i'm not sure if i should attribute the slide-ey feeling i have to a lack of depth or to just general insecurity one has after a divorce.

if it is a lack of depth, then how could this potentially drive problems in a close relationship over time?

[Expat]

For me, semi-duals seem "deep" but end up being not very useful, while mirage types seem useful, but not very deep. When someone is strong in your 5th function, it seems like they have this chasm of depth to them that really draws you. Illusionary types don't touch that function, but they are quickly recognized as being useful (because of their "useful" 2nd function). I'm not sure this sensation applies to all types.

This totally works for me, too.

I think that the "intermediate" relationships, such as semi-dual as compared to illusion, or benefit as compared to supervision, will often be difficult to differentiate if you try to look only at how the relationships themselves are playing out according to descriptions.

It is far better to look precisely at why a relationship between two individuals is developing in a particular way. Then you can see which functions are at play, if any.

well....i think i see....care to expand on what you mean a little?

It's related to what Rick said. For instance, with my LSI male friend, we've known each other for 15 years now, and we're really great at accomplishing things together, being there when one needs the other, responding quickly, yes or no, etc. But our conversations always reach a sort of "wall" beyond which we can't "go". Discussions on relationships don't go anywhere because he goes for Ti and I go for Fi (interestingly, when I use socionics terms, without saying it's socionics, he's more responsive), and the like.

With my EII friend, it's the opposite. We talk freely about anything and everything, going very deep and personal, but (to my eyes) he can be pretty passive-aggressive sometimes. For instance, I ask if I can stay at his place for a night during a trip. The LSI would just say, immediately, "yes, sure" or "no, not on that date, sorry". No problem and no hesitation. The EII will often take forever to make a decision, especially when he really doesn't feel like having me there but doesn't want to say so directly, or perhaps hasn't made up his mind yet. He can also take forever to get back to me on things.

So I get Fi from the EII but not Se; from the LSI it's the opposite.

[Blaze]

expat: is it the Ne that your EII friend has that makes it feel passive-aggressive or manipulative? you want Se...your friend gives you Ne. but leading Fi meets your relational needs, so it's Fi/Te between the two of you.

with the LSI there's no strong ethics coming from either one of you, so you don't talk about the relationship, you do things. Se/Ni. so laziness doesn't necessarily fit here.

with infp man the roles of the creative functions in the relationship are different. like we talk about the relationship all the time and we talk about all kinds of other things via my Ti, too. it's very Fe/Ti with us. it remains to be seen whether we can accomplish things together yet. with separate households, it's more like we have to individually accomplish things; after it becomes clear from conversations with one another, what has to be accomplished. so rick is right we find one another very useful. i'm not sure about laziness here yet.

[redbaron]

with infp man the roles of the creative functions in the relationship are different. like we talk about the relationship all the time and we talk about all kinds of other things via my Ti, too. it's very Fe/Ti with us. it remains to be seen whether we can accomplish things together yet. with separate households, it's more like we have to individually accomplish things; after it becomes clear from conversations with one another, what has to be accomplished. so rick is right we find one another very useful. i'm not sure about laziness here yet.

It makes sense to me that you might not figure out how you accomplish things together until you are either living together or working together on some sort of joint project. I wonder if you could try it. Something action-oriented like....say if there was a job that had to get done on your house or his. You could work together at each other's houses. I don't know if that seems superficial but it's practical anyway. Just to see what happens when problems arise and how efficient you are. Need your windows washed? How about raking the lawn (that's what I have to do to today, LOL)?

As an aside, I find it cute that you refer to him as "infp man"

[Blaze]

with infp man the roles of the creative functions in the relationship are different. like we talk about the relationship all the time and we talk about all kinds of other things via my Ti, too. it's very Fe/Ti with us. it remains to be seen whether we can accomplish things together yet. with separate households, it's more like we have to individually accomplish things; after it becomes clear from conversations with one another, what has to be accomplished. so rick is right we find one another very useful. i'm not sure about laziness here yet.

It makes sense to me that you might not figure out how you accomplish things together until you are either living together or working together on some sort of joint project. I wonder if you could try it. Something action-oriented like....say if there was a job that had to get done on your house or his. You could work together at each other's houses. I don't know if that seems superficial but it's practical anyway. Just to see what happens when problems arise and how efficient you are. Need your windows washed? How about raking the lawn (that's what I have to do to today, LOL)?

As an aside, I find it cute that you refer to him as "infp man"

lol yeah i guess it betrays my feelings a bit we took the wallpaper off the walls of my bathroom and painted it last summer! that was a two day project. my next idea would be to plan a vacation. like a cool one to the southwest or something ahhhh.

i think i'm getting too obsessive about socionics.

[redbaron]

lol yeah i guess it betrays my feelings a bit we took the wallpaper off the walls of my bathroom and painted it last summer! that was a two day project. my next idea would be to plan a vacation. like a cool one to the southwest or something ahhhh.

i think i'm getting too obsessive about socionics.

A vacation would be good, yeah. Although my husband and I are at our very best on vacations. They reveal nothing negative whatsoever regarding our relationship. Even when we have the kids! The worst stuff for us comes out when we are around the house and dealing with organization. Weird huh.

[Blaze]

lol yeah i guess it betrays my feelings a bit we took the wallpaper off the walls of my bathroom and painted it last summer! that was a two day project. my next idea would be to plan a vacation. like a cool one to the southwest or something ahhhh.

i think i'm getting too obsessive about socionics.

A vacation would be good, yeah. Although my husband and I are at our very best on vacations. They reveal nothing negative whatsoever regarding our relationship. Even when we have the kids! The worst stuff for us comes out when we are around the house and dealing with organization. Weird huh.

yeah the getting ready to go is about the worst of it, right? esp with kids! lol.

my divorced friends and i have noticed that middle aged divorced men won't go with their girlfriends on vacation. seriously. it's like pulling teeth. my one friend has been trying to get her bf to go now for like 3 years and for another friend it's been like 2 years. infp man and i haven't tried yet. but it's not for lack of me suggesting!

we think it's too scary for them to go on vaca. too much commitment or something. LOL