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  1. #1

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    Last edited by Dee; 02-26-2009 at 03:16 AM.

  2. #2
    Creepy-bg

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    cool video

  3. #3
    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    I'm also really surprised at how cool this video is.

    I want to meet these people.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

  4. #4
    Creepy-bg

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    whatever... you think too much

  5. #5
    Creepy-bg

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    don't stress over it... it's not like knowing your type is going to change your life in any significant way.

  6. #6
    Creepy-Diana

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    .

  7. #7
    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    don't stress over it... it's not like knowing your type is going to change your life in any significant way.
    idk goat, i feel complete now that I know my type.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

  8. #8
    Creepy-bg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir
    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    don't stress over it... it's not like knowing your type is going to change your life in any significant way.
    idk goat, i feel complete now that I know my type.
    you were complete b4 you knew your type, seriously

  9. #9
    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir
    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    don't stress over it... it's not like knowing your type is going to change your life in any significant way.
    idk goat, i feel complete now that I know my type.
    you were complete b4 you knew your type, seriously
    But I understand myself wayyyyy better now. *whines*
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

  10. #10
    Creepy-bg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir
    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir
    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    don't stress over it... it's not like knowing your type is going to change your life in any significant way.
    idk goat, i feel complete now that I know my type.
    you were complete b4 you knew your type, seriously
    But I understand myself wayyyyy better now. *whines*
    nahhh I get it... I know the feeling. You're probably right and I'm probably wrong, I usually am

  11. #11
    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir
    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir
    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    don't stress over it... it's not like knowing your type is going to change your life in any significant way.
    idk goat, i feel complete now that I know my type.
    you were complete b4 you knew your type, seriously
    But I understand myself wayyyyy better now. *whines*
    nahhh I get it... I know the feeling. You're probably right and I'm probably wrong, I usually am
    nah, i think you got a point. My parents lived 50 odd years without knowing it, and I lived 16 years of pain with it. xD jk
    D-SEI 9w1

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  12. #12
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    added to my favourites videos!
    Thanks dee and yeah, don't think to much!

  13. #13
    Creepy-bg

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    well the SEIs seem to be in agreement at least. Cool video + don't think so much

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    well the SEIs seem to be in agreement at least. Cool video + don't think so much

  15. #15
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee
    @ Diana: what's your problem with Fi? Fe is the feeling we have to one another emotions feeling caused by pleasant sensations, imagining things, observing things, you name it. Fi would be just a system of rules that determine our proper, correct and acceptable behavior in terms of people, morals, etc. our emotional attitude, e.g. devotion or coldness (and double-facedness as a result) would be Fe (orthodox christianity that says that the inside must also be pure for purity means that the Fe must be controlled (the sinful passions would also be Fe)). again, though, that's a theory that might be bs. as for "liking" stuff, it is Fe, just perhaps it's a somewhat standardized (Fi) way to describe the full spectrum of the emotional energy felt. "comparing people" would be Fi as it would also include "logical" "judgements" (1) on the ethical judgments (2) about people (e.g. this one GOOD (2) but this one is BETTER (1)).
    obviously you didn't read that Fi thread.
    Fi at it's most basic is individualized attraction/repulsion.
    Fi by definition is implicit and personal.
    Rules are explicit and not necessarily personal.
    An Fi person may be attracted to certain rules, but the rules themselves are NOT Fi.
    An Fi person may push certain rules, but the pushing is NOT itself Fi.
    A person may be attracted/repulsed from certain behaviors.
    But those behaviors are NOT Fi.
    The only thing that is Fi...is the attraction/repulsion....period.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  16. #16
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    I love Röyksopp.

    I think their music is extensively Fi-based if you listen to the lyrics. There's also quite a lot of Ne there. I'd say at least one of the two members is an IEE. I have an IEE friend, and he loves them, because of the sounds, themes and general feels to the songs. If you listen to the first album, it sounds almost Ti or Ni valuing, which would contradict this idea. My LII friend loves Melody A.M. but thinks that The Understanding is shit. Aforementioned IEE friend loves both albums, and prefers The Understanding. I personally think it's more generic, and think that Melody A.M. is a gem of its genre.

    By the way, that song is not the original (on Melody A.M.). The funny thing is, I can't find a video of the original, and both of the live performances on video I found are of that song. The single is different to the album one according to Wiki. IMHO, it's shitter than the album version.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  17. #17
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    I dunno. The vid makes me kind of somber. Like 'this is just what life is' kinda thing, like...another face in a crowd in a big city. I hate that feeling, which is also why I hate cities. I feel more magical in a small town with close friends, I feel like I'm making a difference more. I hate feeling like a cog in a machine. I want to be the most important part. Like the penis! Or something.

    More plz.

  18. #18
    Creepy-Diana

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  19. #19
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    What do you think about this interpretation of Diana

    I think one of the best examples/illustrations of is multiple standards. Because is defined by the individuals bond with another individual, characteristics that describe/define the bond are individual as well, that is, certain things are allowed for certain people. For example, using is when you allow somebody to kiss you, or when you criticize them for an action you wouldn't criticize somebody else (Even yourself). A real life example, an IEE friend of mine treats his family members as if they crap gold and yet he sees certain "breeds" of people as inferior, like certain nationalities, people within a certain profession and so on. For them there is extra scrutiny, mistrust, initial doubt and even self fulfilling prophecies. A ESI friend of mine is always "slapping people on the wrist" when they swear and yet has the mouth of a sailor. (Of course these examples are a tad bit extreme and negative, but they serve their purpose. They could also work the other way, considering humanity to be essentially good and thus treating all new people as you would treat good people, like for example religious missionaries)

  20. #20
    Creepy-Diana

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee
    Wrong. Ethical rules are ethical rules, they are not Fi. A rule is a defined characteristic. Fi is about undefined connections.
    what makes you say that Fi is not rules? what is attraction/replusion? when you see a horror movie, you are at some point in time experience repulsion form seeing an ugly face for example. then the FEELING subdues. perhap's it's intensity looks like

    ....
    ......
    .........
    ...........

    which implies dynamics, as it is about changes over time. now the *assumption* is that it's Fe. Fi would be the rules of social behavior: e.g. being polite, to observe traditions, being moral, perhaps controlling your internal Fe (passions, feelings) towards things too, not expressing your feelings when it is inappropriate, etc. basically it all boils down to Fi rules. Fi systems would be perhaps the systems of people that have Fe about each other or something (or even just behaving according to the rules would imply following some route, which would imply presence of the system as that's what the system does, it channels the energy in a particular way), just as Ti can be rules, judgments (logical reasoning for example) and, focally, systems (algorithms included) in that they control the flow of Te energy.
    I think there's some truth to this understanding of , but it's not coming from a perspective, so it sounds false. "Rule" is not a word at all -- that's the problem. A "rule" is something impersonal that applies to everyone regardless of their individual situation, feelings, and motives. is about considering the individual situation, feelings, and motives of each person and adapting behavior accordingly. From a non- quadra perspective it can seem that types are applying "rules" of politeness (which of course seem restrictive to them), but in actuality types are sensitive to each individual person and modify their behavior to fit the situation each time. What seems restrictive to non- quadras is freedom to others.
    It is easier for the eye of a camel to pass through a rich man than for a needle to enter the kingdom of heaven.

  22. #22
    Creepy-Diana

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  23. #23
    snegledmaca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    As for the ESI, sounds like hypocrisy to me sneg. I don't understand at all where the IEE is coming from either. I'll have to think about it and get back to this. Favoritism has always annoyed me -- never did like when someone was treated more favorably just because they were better liked. Hmm, I'll think about it.
    Well I never said anything about what kind of people they were. And when you think about it, any informational element is inherently neutral in terms of being "good" or "bad". It's what you make of them that are an expression of who you are, what kind of person you are. I'm sure these people, if they were other types, would be just as "bad" but simply through other means. But what I was trying to ask was whether the analysis of their usage of the elements is still valid theoretically despite the fact that one wouldn't readily approve of it, that is, is it an expression of as an informational element?

  24. #24
    Creepy-Diana

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  25. #25
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
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    delete
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  26. #26
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    Some of what we call "morals, etiquette, and social standards" are based on Fi values, some are based on Fe values, some are probably based on Se values, maybe Ti values, perhaps other things as well. Some social rules are regional or generational. In some cases a combination of factors are behind them. But social rules are not Fi.

    I like this quoted description from Diana's post:
    Like Rick said, " Introverted Feeling is about considering the individual situation, feelings, and motives of each person and adapting behavior accordingly."
    In some cases the appropriate response seems very much to line up with standard etiquette, but in some cases I feel a completely different response is appropriate. The point is that I don't consider etiquette rules when I make a decision. I look internally to decide what the appropriate response is. If it lines up with "standard etiquette rules" so be it, but it is not a motivator. And, what I consider an appropriate response to X might not seem like an appropriate response to X in two weeks, or a year, or whatever. It depends on a number of circumstances but it is not at all dependent upon some external rule or rules.

    It's possible that some social etiquette rules were created or developed by people with Fi in the ego block, and maybe I'd be more likely to naturally follow those. But some etiquette rules I just plain disagree with. They might make sense to someone else but that person isn't living here, now, in my life, in my circumstances.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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  27. #27
    Creepy-Diana

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  28. #28
    Creepy-bg

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    Since it seems pretty apparent at this point that Fi is all about rules (and nothing besides rules) how about we get a couple of types to list them all out here so that we can all keep the Fi's happy?

    Diana and Ann can start since they seem be the ones most adament about us all accepting the Fi=rules definition...

  29. #29
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee
    the last two you mentioned are wrong by the way. they do agree it is about rules. ESSENTIALLY.
    No.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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  30. #30
    snegledmaca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    Since it seems pretty apparent at this point that Fi is all about rules (and nothing besides rules) how about we get a couple of types to list them all out here so that we can all keep the Fi's happy?

    Diana and Ann can start since they seem be the ones most adament about us all accepting the Fi=rules definition...
    No, no, no, that's not the way to go, we need somebody who isn't a type to list the rules, because, as not being a type, they will be more objective in assessing what *really* is. And I volunteer myself.

    Ok, first rule of thumb is = fascism. Hitler. Genocide. These are all associations with . I'm sure we will all agree that is primarily about imposing ones own system of belief or whatever upon others and doing so with ferocity. is also bigotry. As a system of imposed rules the imposers determine the rules in their benefit with your disadvantage specifically in their mind. is also cold hearted. Because it has no the people who have it effectively have no soul. is about beliefs. Any beliefs. If you believe in something, it's (Especially when you try to impose those convictions upon other people). people are intellectually inferior. An inevitable conclusion from the preceding statements and quite honestly an unavoidable fact of life. people like to eat children. There is an incredibly large population of types that indulge in consummation of newborns (things like eggs, seeds and so on). Another very, very disturbing and sickening fact. people lie and cheat. people treat people with disrespect.

    To be honest after all of this I can't really see how anybody couldn't be disgusted and abhorred by types and I feel their suffering.

  31. #31
    Creepy-bg

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    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    Since it seems pretty apparent at this point that Fi is all about rules (and nothing besides rules) how about we get a couple of types to list them all out here so that we can all keep the Fi's happy?

    Diana and Ann can start since they seem be the ones most adament about us all accepting the Fi=rules definition...
    No, no, no, that's not the way to go, we need somebody who isn't a type to list the rules, because, as not being a type, they will be more objective in assessing what *really* is. And I volunteer myself.

    Ok, first rule of thumb is = fascism. Hitler. Genocide. These are all associations with . I'm sure we will all agree that is primarily about imposing ones own system of belief or whatever upon others and doing so with ferocity. is also bigotry. As a system of imposed rules the imposers determine the rules in their benefit with your disadvantage specifically in their mind. is also cold hearted. Because it has no the people who have it effectively have no soul. is about beliefs. Any beliefs. If you believe in something, it's (Especially when you try to impose those convictions upon other people). people are intellectually inferior. An inevitable conclusion from the preceding statements and quite honestly an unavoidable fact of life. people like to eat children. There is an incredibly large population of types that indulge in consummation of newborns (things like eggs, seeds and so on). Another very, very disturbing and sickening fact. people lie and cheat. people treat people with disrespect.

    To be honest after all of this I can't really see how anybody couldn't be disgusted and abhorred by types and I feel their suffering.
    too bad you aren't , then you wouldn't be capable of "feeling their suffering" and could just get on with life

  32. #32
    Creepy-Diana

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  33. #33
    Creepy-bg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    Since it seems pretty apparent at this point that Fi is all about rules (and nothing besides rules) how about we get a couple of types to list them all out here so that we can all keep the Fi's happy?

    Diana and Ann can start since they seem be the ones most adament about us all accepting the Fi=rules definition...
    Good idea.

    Rule 1: Diana is always right. If you disagree - tough, you're wrong.
    Rule 2: dee is not allowed to post more than once per thread, and posting twice in a row or more is an especially heinous rule-break.
    Rule 3: dee is not allowed to act as though he understands something he doesn't, or to advise anyone else in any manner, especially re. socionics.

    Okay, that should cover it.
    sweet! thanks Diana, I think this concrete definition of the Fi rules is going to greatly further all of our socionics understanding

    +18

  34. #34
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    morals, etiquette, and social standards" are based on Fi values
    yes you say it's more but the stuff is at least INCLUDED.
    No no no. There is nothing included about rules. We come up with our own INTERNAL ASSESSMENT that is completely unrelated to any external rules. It has nothing to do with any outside factors. No rules. None. If it lines up with someone's rules, it is coincidental. I hope that's clearer. But I bet you will continue to deliberately misinterpret me in an attempt to work it into your incorrect assumptions.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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