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7th and 8th functions
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Last edited by tereg; 05-07-2010 at 09:04 PM. Reason: Edited by user request
I'm also really interested to discuss this, especially the 8th function since I don't really know what its role is to me. (there aren't many posts in the "different functions for alphas" thread).
Basically I think that it's true that we are strong in the 7th and 8th functions but that we don't spend much time on them, we get tired of using them quicker, and utilize them mostly only when their use will further an interest that is already present. We would much rather utilize our ego block's functions.
For example in Expat's thread, I believe that Blaze asked how Te in her id block would manifest, and he said maybe by reading factual magazines as a hobby. I do this, I read so so so many magazines..i would consider it a problem actually.. but I was struck the other day that I was attracted to a cover article about using game theory and economics to make predictions, and I was genuinely interested in the first few pages but quickly got bored and didn't finish. I skim the article for "interesting parts". But, on other long articles (one about the iPhone and social impact, i read it beginning to end, no problem).
Please Note: What I say about each of these functions is based on MY functional arrangement. Fuckers.
Ne's all fine and good. I can enjoy Ne conversations with Ne types, but when it's time to accomplish something I turn back to my ego block.
Ti's sort of annoying when people put too much importance on it (and expect me to do the same)... including my dual or activity partner. I understand the Ti aspect of a situation or thing well enough to do what I'm trying to do.
Fe's not so bad from my perspective, but Peter tends to have less patience with those who put too much importance on it (and expect him to do the same)... including his dual.That (plus his Se) protects me from unpleasant situations in which I feel somehow obligated to satisfy someone else's Fe demands.
Si... Peter's fussy about Si stuff, but only with some things. He takes care of a lot of Si stuff and it doesn't bother him, which is great cause then I don't need to. I am still getting used to the idea that I don't need to be hyper-aware of Si shit because if I ignore it and something starts to go wrong, he'll see it right away and tell me what I should do (or fix it himself).
I guess when you have fun with your 7th function, it still ends up being through creative function's colors. and the same with 8th function and the first.
Even if I go on and on with some huge moral tirade (7th Fi), I do it with full facial expressions (Fe 1st) and I pause when needed and raise my voice when needed and then ask with a sulky voice, "are you listening? I'm right about this." and the dual will respond to that Fe there. Because what's wrong with Fi is that they do all that without any physical clues of how they feel about it. They explain but they don't show it. And it confuses the hell out of the Ti types. But I don't think I would be able to do that.
Same with Ne/Ni. I can play around with options of what could be done, but I'll still automatically consider each option according to where it would lead in the long run.
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If I'm a INTj, then I suppose my use of Te was most apparent when I was younger - I used to read lots of fact books and encyclopedias, especially one with lots of colours and pictures. Some of the things I remember include: the capital of the Philippines is Manila, and the largest known meteorite in the world weighs the same as nine elephants. Now, I don't tend to have the time or the will to read such things - it expends too much energy, and doesn't seem immediately profitable. I don't really know how I use Ni, though I guess occasionally, I might get asked to do something, and I get a vague outline in my head of what order things need to be done (I actually like it being rather vague because it means I can easily apply the outline\schedule to other tasks, and deadlines are rather relaxed :wink.
That's not exactly Te. (A very common mistake about Te is that it's about "facts" or acquiring a lot of generalized knowledge.)Originally Posted by Subterranean
is about what works!
Te is about what works?That's not exactly Te. (A very common mistake about Te is that it's about "facts" or acquiring a lot of generalized knowledge.)
Te is about what works!
Looks like I'm going to be starting another thread about Te
The only time I know for certain that I'm using my 7th function is when I'm with an Illusionary partner.
Looks like I'm going to be starting another thread about Te
that's alright... we get it.
Bionicgoat, I'm curious about your thoughts on the examples I gave in the "Si" thread.
Apparently it doesn't work, because otherwise I do not see why Joy would need to make another thread about Te.Looks like I'm going to be starting another thread about Te
that's alright... we get it.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Is this an example of Te working?
No, I'd say that Te is more whitey here:
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
too many words... not enough fun... sorry
In this scenario, the readily observed motion of a person's hand would be an example of Te. (The readily observed characteristics of the hand itself would be Se.)Is this an example of Te working?
Question: if a person remembers a sequence of hand motions, what elements are they using?In this scenario, the readily observed motion of a person's hand would be an example of Te. (The readily observed characteristics of the hand itself would be Se.)Is this an example of Te working?
you must not be Te because that explanation doesn't workIn this scenario, the readily observed motion of a person's hand would be an example of Te. (The readily observed characteristics of the hand itself would be Se.)Is this an example of Te working?
I don't know. Maybe Ni? Memories are abstractions, right?Question: if a person remembers a sequence of hand motions, what elements are they using?In this scenario, the readily observed motion of a person's hand would be an example of Te. (The readily observed characteristics of the hand itself would be Se.)Is this an example of Te working?
Functions are abstractions, right?I don't know. Maybe Ni? Memories are abstractions, right?Question: if a person remembers a sequence of hand motions, what elements are they using?In this scenario, the readily observed motion of a person's hand would be an example of Te. (The readily observed characteristics of the hand itself would be Se.)
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Makes sense. But how is that different fromI don't know. Maybe Ni? Memories are abstractions, right?Question: if a person remembers a sequence of hand motions, what elements are they using?In this scenario, the readily observed motion of a person's hand would be an example of Te. (The readily observed characteristics of the hand itself would be Se.)Is this an example of Te working?
Te: external dynamics of objectsMakes sense. But how is that different fromI don't know. Maybe Ni? Memories are abstractions, right?Question: if a person remembers a sequence of hand motions, what elements are they using?
Ni: internal dynamics of fields
objects vs. fields:
- With Te, it is happening at that moment. However, when you are remembering something that happened at another point in time, it becomes connected either to another thought or another event or yourself, etc.
internal vs. external:
- With Te, the thing that is happening is readily observable or measurable. With Ni, the thing that is happening is not readily observable. It's an abstraction in your mind.
Well i think i would agree that Te "is" not facts, but I do think that the drive to accumulate them is common among Te types; probably ok to say it's a manifestation of Te.
I also think that annoyance with mistatement of facts could be common to many types but for different reasons.. so I don't think the fact that I get annoyed with that is a manifestation of Te in the id.
One example from long ago.. I think Id functions are supposed to be used suddenly or "aggressively" -- they are used accurately and quickly, which is what I think a strong function is. There have been some times when someone is doing something that I don't think is efficient, and I burst in and try to direct the situation in the way I think is efficient. The example i had was I was we were all packing for a trip and had limited time, and someone was taking an incredibly long time folding up this thing that looked like a blanket. Without thought and forcefully, I said "do that in the car". To me this is Te but not in the ego-- I think it was concern with efficiency or "best practices" but you're not concerned with it foremost or all the time.
lol
Ditto! And the way to "feel" how your 8th function works is to be around your quasi-identical for a while and observe yourself.
It is easier for the eye of a camel to pass through a rich man than for a needle to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Is it less common among Ti types?
that's fascinating. I will look for this next time im with an illusionary.Ditto! And the way to "feel" how your 8th function works is to be around your quasi-identical for a while and observe yourself.
I think so...maybe we could have more Ti types comment.Is it less common among Ti types?
I'd say it was possible that my Se and Ti come through in OTC and socionics respectively.
No, but I'd say that Te types are more dynamically exchanging information and facts, whereas Ti type are concerned about accumulating it in relation to the larger system in place that they see. So Ti types are more concerned with the why? and the Te is picked up in the process of trying to figure it out.Is it less common among Ti types?
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
My 7th function suggests that not all people share the same set of facts. This group holds A as fact, this groups holds B as fact. People seem to have an emotional reaction to the facts they are confronted with, based on whether they agree with them or not.
I should note that ESFps tend to believe my
I think we're seeing Te similarly here. I think the positive and negative forms of Te direct Ti toward different "largess systems" though.
@Joy:
How do ISFps respond to your Ti?
I ttlly rl8.I should note that ESFps tend to believe my
I haven't known any SEI's well enough to answer that.
What is Ti to you?I haven't known any SEI's well enough to answer that.
In general or in me?
To you.
In others or in me?
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and 
work as my 7th and 8th functions. I really don't. I think the fact that I don't notice them say as much to their value in my mind.