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Thread: 7th and 8th functions

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    Creepy-Diana

    Default 7th and 8th functions

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    Last edited by tereg; 05-07-2010 at 10:04 PM. Reason: Edited by user request

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    I'm also really interested to discuss this, especially the 8th function since I don't really know what its role is to me. (there aren't many posts in the "different functions for alphas" thread).
    Basically I think that it's true that we are strong in the 7th and 8th functions but that we don't spend much time on them, we get tired of using them quicker, and utilize them mostly only when their use will further an interest that is already present. We would much rather utilize our ego block's functions.

    For example in Expat's thread, I believe that Blaze asked how Te in her id block would manifest, and he said maybe by reading factual magazines as a hobby. I do this, I read so so so many magazines.. i would consider it a problem actually.. but I was struck the other day that I was attracted to a cover article about using game theory and economics to make predictions, and I was genuinely interested in the first few pages but quickly got bored and didn't finish. I skim the article for "interesting parts". But, on other long articles (one about the iPhone and social impact, i read it beginning to end, no problem).

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    Please Note: What I say about each of these functions is based on MY functional arrangement. Fuckers.

    Ne's all fine and good. I can enjoy Ne conversations with Ne types, but when it's time to accomplish something I turn back to my ego block.
    Ti's sort of annoying when people put too much importance on it (and expect me to do the same)... including my dual or activity partner. I understand the Ti aspect of a situation or thing well enough to do what I'm trying to do.

    Fe's not so bad from my perspective, but Peter tends to have less patience with those who put too much importance on it (and expect him to do the same)... including his dual. That (plus his Se) protects me from unpleasant situations in which I feel somehow obligated to satisfy someone else's Fe demands.
    Si... Peter's fussy about Si stuff, but only with some things. He takes care of a lot of Si stuff and it doesn't bother him, which is great cause then I don't need to. I am still getting used to the idea that I don't need to be hyper-aware of Si shit because if I ignore it and something starts to go wrong, he'll see it right away and tell me what I should do (or fix it himself).
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    I guess when you have fun with your 7th function, it still ends up being through creative function's colors. and the same with 8th function and the first.

    Even if I go on and on with some huge moral tirade (7th Fi), I do it with full facial expressions (Fe 1st) and I pause when needed and raise my voice when needed and then ask with a sulky voice, "are you listening? I'm right about this." and the dual will respond to that Fe there. Because what's wrong with Fi is that they do all that without any physical clues of how they feel about it. They explain but they don't show it. And it confuses the hell out of the Ti types. But I don't think I would be able to do that.

    Same with Ne/Ni. I can play around with options of what could be done, but I'll still automatically consider each option according to where it would lead in the long run.
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    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
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    If I'm a INTj, then I suppose my use of Te was most apparent when I was younger - I used to read lots of fact books and encyclopedias, especially one with lots of colours and pictures. Some of the things I remember include: the capital of the Philippines is Manila, and the largest known meteorite in the world weighs the same as nine elephants. Now, I don't tend to have the time or the will to read such things - it expends too much energy, and doesn't seem immediately profitable. I don't really know how I use Ni, though I guess occasionally, I might get asked to do something, and I get a vague outline in my head of what order things need to be done (I actually like it being rather vague because it means I can easily apply the outline\schedule to other tasks, and deadlines are rather relaxed :wink.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    If I'm a INTj, then I suppose my use of Te was most apparent when I was younger - I used to read lots of fact books and encyclopedias, especially one with lots of colours and pictures. Some of the things I remember include: the capital of the Philippines is Manila, and the largest known meteorite in the world weighs the same as nine elephants.
    That's not exactly Te. (A very common mistake about Te is that it's about "facts" or acquiring a lot of generalized knowledge.)
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    is about what works!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    If I'm a INTj, then I suppose my use of Te was most apparent when I was younger - I used to read lots of fact books and encyclopedias, especially one with lots of colours and pictures. Some of the things I remember include: the capital of the Philippines is Manila, and the largest known meteorite in the world weighs the same as nine elephants.
    That's not exactly Te. (A very common mistake about Te is that it's about "facts" or acquiring a lot of generalized knowledge.)
    Te is about what works?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    is about what works!
    Te is about what works !

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    Looks like I'm going to be starting another thread about Te
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    The only time I know for certain that I'm using my 7th function is when I'm with an Illusionary partner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Looks like I'm going to be starting another thread about Te

    that's alright... we get it.

    (aka Te) IS ABOUT WHAT WORKS!!!

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    Bionicgoat, I'm curious about your thoughts on the examples I gave in the "Si" thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Looks like I'm going to be starting another thread about Te

    that's alright... we get it.

    (aka Te) IS ABOUT WHAT WORKS!!!
    Apparently it doesn't work, because otherwise I do not see why Joy would need to make another thread about Te.
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    Is this an example of Te working?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    Is this an example of Te working?
    No, I'd say that Te is more whitey here:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Bionicgoat, I'm curious about your thoughts on the examples I gave in the "Si" thread.
    too many words... not enough fun... sorry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    Is this an example of Te working?

    In this scenario, the readily observed motion of a person's hand would be an example of Te. (The readily observed characteristics of the hand itself would be Se.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    Is this an example of Te working?

    In this scenario, the readily observed motion of a person's hand would be an example of Te. (The readily observed characteristics of the hand itself would be Se.)
    Question: if a person remembers a sequence of hand motions, what elements are they using?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    Is this an example of Te working?

    In this scenario, the readily observed motion of a person's hand would be an example of Te. (The readily observed characteristics of the hand itself would be Se.)
    you must not be Te because that explanation doesn't work

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    Is this an example of Te working?

    In this scenario, the readily observed motion of a person's hand would be an example of Te. (The readily observed characteristics of the hand itself would be Se.)
    Question: if a person remembers a sequence of hand motions, what elements are they using?
    I don't know. Maybe Ni? Memories are abstractions, right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    Is this an example of Te working?
    In this scenario, the readily observed motion of a person's hand would be an example of Te. (The readily observed characteristics of the hand itself would be Se.)
    Question: if a person remembers a sequence of hand motions, what elements are they using?
    I don't know. Maybe Ni? Memories are abstractions, right?
    Functions are abstractions, right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    Is this an example of Te working?

    In this scenario, the readily observed motion of a person's hand would be an example of Te. (The readily observed characteristics of the hand itself would be Se.)
    Question: if a person remembers a sequence of hand motions, what elements are they using?
    I don't know. Maybe Ni? Memories are abstractions, right?
    Makes sense. But how is that different from ? In either case you are observing an object's motion, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr
    Te is good, I'm having a cup of green Te right now. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy.


    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    In this scenario, the readily observed motion of a person's hand would be an example of Te. (The readily observed characteristics of the hand itself would be Se.)
    Question: if a person remembers a sequence of hand motions, what elements are they using?
    I don't know. Maybe Ni? Memories are abstractions, right?
    Makes sense. But how is that different from ? In either case you are observing an object's motion, right?
    Te: external dynamics of objects
    Ni: internal dynamics of fields

    objects vs. fields:
    • With Te, it is happening at that moment. However, when you are remembering something that happened at another point in time, it becomes connected either to another thought or another event or yourself, etc.


    internal vs. external:
    • With Te, the thing that is happening is readily observable or measurable. With Ni, the thing that is happening is not readily observable. It's an abstraction in your mind.
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    Well i think i would agree that Te "is" not facts, but I do think that the drive to accumulate them is common among Te types; probably ok to say it's a manifestation of Te.

    I also think that annoyance with mistatement of facts could be common to many types but for different reasons.. so I don't think the fact that I get annoyed with that is a manifestation of Te in the id.

    One example from long ago.. I think Id functions are supposed to be used suddenly or "aggressively" -- they are used accurately and quickly, which is what I think a strong function is. There have been some times when someone is doing something that I don't think is efficient, and I burst in and try to direct the situation in the way I think is efficient. The example i had was I was we were all packing for a trip and had limited time, and someone was taking an incredibly long time folding up this thing that looked like a blanket. Without thought and forcefully, I said "do that in the car". To me this is Te but not in the ego-- I think it was concern with efficiency or "best practices" but you're not concerned with it foremost or all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr
    Te is good, I'm having a cup of green Te right now. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
    lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    The only time I know for certain that I'm using my 7th function is when I'm with an Illusionary partner.
    Ditto! And the way to "feel" how your 8th function works is to be around your quasi-identical for a while and observe yourself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    Well i think i would agree that Te "is" not facts, but I do think that the drive to accumulate them is common among Te types; probably ok to say it's a manifestation of Te.
    Is it less common among Ti types?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    The only time I know for certain that I'm using my 7th function is when I'm with an Illusionary partner.
    Ditto! And the way to "feel" how your 8th function works is to be around your quasi-identical for a while and observe yourself.
    that's fascinating. I will look for this next time im with an illusionary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    Well i think i would agree that Te "is" not facts, but I do think that the drive to accumulate them is common among Te types; probably ok to say it's a manifestation of Te.
    Is it less common among Ti types?
    I think so...maybe we could have more Ti types comment.

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    I'd say it was possible that my Se and Ti come through in OTC and socionics respectively.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    Well i think i would agree that Te "is" not facts, but I do think that the drive to accumulate them is common among Te types; probably ok to say it's a manifestation of Te.
    Is it less common among Ti types?
    No, but I'd say that Te types are more dynamically exchanging information and facts, whereas Ti type are concerned about accumulating it in relation to the larger system in place that they see. So Ti types are more concerned with the why? and the Te is picked up in the process of trying to figure it out.
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    My 7th function suggests that not all people share the same set of facts. This group holds A as fact, this groups holds B as fact. People seem to have an emotional reaction to the facts they are confronted with, based on whether they agree with them or not.

    I should note that ESFps tend to believe my anathema, if not outright evil. This I know from experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    whereas Ti type are concerned about accumulating it in relation to the larger system in place that they see.
    I think we're seeing Te similarly here. I think the positive and negative forms of Te direct Ti toward different "largess systems" though.

    @Joy:
    How do ISFps respond to your Ti?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    I should note that ESFps tend to believe my anathema, if not outright evil. This I know from experience.
    I ttlly rl8.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    @Joy:
    How do ISFps respond to your Ti?
    I haven't known any SEI's well enough to answer that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    @Joy:
    How do ISFps respond to your Ti?
    I haven't known any SEI's well enough to answer that.
    What is Ti to you?

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    In general or in me?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    In general or in me?
    To you.

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    In others or in me?
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    I have no idea how and work as my 7th and 8th functions. I really don't. I think the fact that I don't notice them say as much to their value in my mind.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Please Note: What I say about each of these functions is based on MY functional arrangement. Fuckers.
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