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Thread: ENTj type description TheSocion!!!

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    Default ENTj type description TheSocion!!!

    1.) -Te/+Ti (directly ties in with function 7)
    ENTjs tend to love to spend excess amounts of money in an attempt to gain large returns. For ENTjs, everything is about taking risks. ENTjs also respond very well in chaotic situations. It's as if these situations were made especially for ENTjs. ENTjs tend to structure and organize things very well. ENTjs are good at placing things in groups and noticing the similarities between objects. ENTjs are usually very "common sense" smart. They tend to usually be able to make correct assumptions about certain things very easily. This always them to develop a large portion of information from a very small observation. ENTjs love systems of structure. They tend to follow and believe that society must follow a certain code of living. ENTjs tend to love rules and laws. They believe that all things must abide by them in order for the world to continue being suitable for living.

    2.) +Ni/-Ne (directly ties in with function 8)
    ENTjs tend to like to take things slowly. Though they excel in making the "home run", they tend to have a calmness and collectiveness about them. ENTjs usually are very confident. ENTjs usually think in absolutes. This is probably the source of their confidence. It gives them a sense of security about them. It is extremely difficult to negotiate with an ENTj. They usually are very stern and hardly ever change their minds about something. ENTjs are usually not impulsive. They usually caress the situation, and attempt to do as thorough of a job as possible. ENTjs tend to love the historical perspective. They tend to notice the trends of how things are going and how things were, and are able to predict the future very easily. ENTjs have a strong need to fit in. They tend to want to be viewed as normal people.

    3.) -Fe/+Fi (directly ties in with function 5)
    ENTjs usually are not rude with people. They usually do not appear to be very dramatic. They tend to be very nice and polite. ENTjs though usually do not understand the concept of love. Love is a foreign concept to ENTjs. ENTjs also tend to have a hard time being sympathetic to people.

    4.) +Si/-Se (directly ties in with function 6)
    ENTjs usually are not of the rebellious type. They usually follow authority and society's trends. They usually aren't the type of people that want to stand out. ENTjs do not have much initiative. Though they are very chaotic, they often have a hard time finding the right endeavors to undergo. This in turn causes them to stick with the same interests for long periods of time. They aren't the type of people to experiment with drugs or their bodies. They usually don't do anything to extreme in the explorations of their bodily functions.

    5.) +Fe/-Fi (directly ties in with function 3)
    ENTjs tend to be as nice and polite as possible. They are usually very playful with the people that they are around. ENTjs have a need to be withdrawn. They have a need to find things that they dislike so that they can withdraw from them.

    6.) +Se/-Si (directly ties in with function 4)
    ENTjs usually try to fit in with society. They are very submissive to authority. They usually follow the rules that are placed on them. ENTjs are very strong willed people. They are very good at completing tedious tasks that requires the person to spend a lot of time on routine things. ENTjs have a need to travel and to have get out and enjoy the world. They love to explore the world and usually travel very often. ENTjs usually take very good care of their bodies. They tend to bathe and wash often. They usually like stability with the foods that they eat. They don't like to oversample things foods, they would prefer to stick with the same dietary supplements.

    7.) -Ti/+Te (directly ties in with function 1)
    ENTjs do not like analytical logic. They do not take the time to prove things. They usually just go on their "gut" instincts. ENTjs do not like to keep stable with their business assets. They don't like to keep things at a standstill.

    8.) +Ne/-Ni (directly ties in with function 2)
    ENTjs do not like be be viewed as original. They are not the type of people that want to be in the limelight. They would prefer to be alone without people thinking of them as different. ENTjs do not like relative viewpoints. They usually think that their beliefs are the answers for most things. They believe that their usually is an absolute truth. This entire usually causes them to be very spiritual people.
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    Default Re: ENTj type description TheSocion!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by hitta
    ENTjs though usually do not understand the concept of love. Love is a foreign concept to ENTjs.
    Perhaps you could be so kind as to explain the concept of love, then, to those, like ENTjs and ISFjs, who do not understand it.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Default Re: ENTj type description TheSocion!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by hitta
    ENTjs though usually do not understand the concept of love. Love is a foreign concept to ENTjs.
    Perhaps you could be so kind as to explain the concept of love, then, to those, like ENTjs and ISFjs, who do not understand it.
    They simply don't understand what it means to like someone, they notice repulsion before they do attraction.
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    How is that consistent with the Fi connection (dominant in ISFj, dual-seeking in ENTj) in the ISFj-ENTj duality? So these two types are connected by Fi and don't understand what it means to like each other?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Well ISFjs are repulsed by people, and ENTjs have a need to be repulsed.
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    Comparing ESFjs and ISFjs, ESFjs find what they like in people, ISFjs find what they don't like in people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitta
    Well ISFjs are repulsed by people, and ENTjs have a need to be repulsed.
    So an ENTj-ISFj couple stays together in duality because they repulse each other? They want to be miserable together?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    you could say that
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    WTF?! That's seriously retarded.

    You're joking right?
    INTp
    sx/sp

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    You ever seen that relationship between the chaotic new york stock guy with the woman that keeps getting tired of the relationship, then after a while goes back to him, then gets tired of it again, then goes back to him. Television example of that type of relationship Scarlett and Rhett in Gone with the Wind. Id say that that might be an ENTj/ISFj relationship.
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    yeah I don't understand that. They are attracted to ENTj's because they are repulsed by eachother, so what about ENTps? wouldn't they tend to be repulsed by them enough to be duals from that? do you have descriptions for each types relations to eachother?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitta
    You ever seen that relationship between the chaotic new york stock guy with the woman that keeps getting tired of the relationship, then after a while goes back to him, then gets tired of it again, then goes back to him. Television example of that type of relationship Scarlett and Rhett in Gone with the Wind. Id say that that might be an ENTj/ISFj relationship.
    that might be true, i think the description of the relations between each type should be different with each duals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitta
    Well ISFjs are repulsed by people, and ENTjs have a need to be repulsed.
    I disagree with you, but I think I know where you're coming from.
    The ISFjs that I know act very cold and non-caring towards everyone else. There is a hint of the attitude: "you have to care deeply for me even though I'm cold and I don't show any care." At the same time ENTjs need very deep caring relationships where the physical show of care is not important. So they don't care that the ISFj is cold and negativistic, as long as the ISFj deeply cares for them. That's what types call "true love" but us folks would call failed and cold relationship.

    Also, the ISFj is probably inclined to show their "true love" through actions, but types take this for granted. They treat this as a part of the ISFjs personality, not as any emotions that they are trying to show.
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    well i doubt that either was an ENTj and ISFj now that i think about it... but i think you get the point. Maybe Carrie Bradshaw and Big in Sex and the City. I don't know... I don't keep up with shows like that much. I just see a lot of distancing in an ENTj/ISFj relationship.
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    Default Re: ENTj type description TheSocion!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by hitta
    It is extremely difficult to negotiate with an ENTj.
    And

    ENTjs are very strong willed people.
    Appears to contradict:

    They are very submissive to authority. They usually follow the rules that are placed on them.
    And

    ENTjs have a need to travel and to have get out and enjoy the world.
    Seems to contradict:

    ENTjs do not have much initiative.
    Surely the "need" to travel would entail the ability to take the initiative to travel.

    Otherwise, this description fits quite well with me.
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    Hitta, watch this:

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h36WvUcf5Rg[/youtube]
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    God, every time I watch that I'm amazed by how much Paul Newman's expressions and body language resemble Peter's. (And also I'm amazed at how Paul Newman just kept getting better looking as he got older. )
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    Paul Newman actually makes me want to be an ESI.

    Thanks for that, Joy. It did goodness to my soul.
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    lol
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    Since hitta claims that his understanding of socionics is consistent with classical socionics, I'd be interested in seeing evidence that that understanding of the ENTj-ISFj duality is consistent with other socionics texts.

    For instance, that flatly contradicts Augusta's own description of that duality as available in socionics.org , and how Stratievskaya sees is as per her ENTj and ISFj descriptions.

    I'm not going to argue that hitta's understanding of ENTjs, ISFjs and their relationship is rubbish, since that would be a waste of time; but I think it's easy to show that it's inconsistent with classical socionics.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
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    Id like to see a link to that lol
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    Hitta, what do you think about Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward's relationship?
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    It feels like it may be similar to an ENTj/ISFj dual.... im not gonna say I'm certain that they are ENTj and ISFj though.
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    Paul is probably INTp, Joanne is probably ISFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitta
    It feels like it may be similar to an ENTj/ISFj dual....
    Where's the "repulsion" aspect?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Woodward is LIE. Newman is ESI.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by hitta
    It feels like it may be similar to an ENTj/ISFj dual....
    Where's the "repulsion" aspect?
    Lol, that video was just different pictures of them smiling and appearing as if they were enjoying themself, not to forget the Elvis Presley music. All one could gather from that is that they smile.
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    wow

    Let me ask you this: Where did you get your concept of LIE's and ESI's from in the first place? Do you have "benchmark" people in mind? Or a benchmark couple?
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    The couple in sex and the city, and maybe Rhett and Scarlett in Gone with the Wind.
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    I haven't seen much of Sex in the City, but I'd be interested to hear why you think Scarlett O'Hara and Rhett Butler are ENTj/ISFj, and which of them you think is which.
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    I could possibly see Scarlett Ohara as LIE (it's been a long time since I saw it though), and I don't think Se creative is a huge stretch for Rhett Butler (but again, it's been a long time since I saw it), but even if they are LIE and ESI (I'm not remembering evidence of Fi dominance in Rhett, but whatever), it doesn't matter. (And thankfully I've never seen sex in the city.)

    It's a horrible idea to base your whole concept of how a duality works or what types are like based on FICTIONAL characters.
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    Well Scarlett is a bit too bitchy to be an ISFj, but she does have that ISFj way about her, I don't know its really hard to explain. Most of Scarletts bitchy points are when she is in defensive positions though(which ISFjs are very defensive). I could see the ENTj/ISFj dual being very casual like. ENTjs and ISFjs will probably split and rejoin together very often. I don't think either will ever have that visible deep strong love that Alphas and Deltas usually have. Its as if ENTjs and ISFjs love to get together just to break it off with each other. Gammas and Betas usually have "playful" love, or the love that doesn't last.
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    To be honest I haven't watched Gone with the Wind in an extremely long time either.
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    I would never assume those two characters would be duals, either. And I don't see Fi preference in either of them, personally.

    And I agree about fictional characters. Even if you assume the characters are well written and fit into any one type, the characters are then interpreted by an actor, who is possibly a different type, and a director and a producer, who are both possibly different types. There is great potential for muddying of the waters in fictional characters, particularly when they're from TV/movies rather than books.
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    Betas and Gammas usually have the playful, short lasting love. They usually love to break off from relationships and distance themselves for time periods. Alphas and Deltas usually have that strong compassionate love.
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    I know ENTj/ISFj couples and they don't break up all the time. They're together for good and they're happy and devoted to each other.
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    Do you have any idea what Fi dual seeking is? Do you have any idea what Fi even is? (If relationships with ESI's were really that unstable in their relationships, they would not be the dual of LIE's.) Above all else, Fi dual seeking types need their partner to provide security/stability in their relationships.
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    This description is bollocks, not only in the negative parts, but also in the positive (things like "ENTjs are good with tedious tasks)

    Betas and Gammas usually have the playful, short lasting love. They usually love to break off from relationships and distance themselves for time periods. Alphas and Deltas usually have that strong compassionate love.
    ???
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    Quote Originally Posted by hitta
    Well ISFjs are repulsed by people, and ENTjs have a need to be repulsed.
    I disagree with you, but I think I know where you're coming from.
    The ISFjs that I know act very cold and non-caring towards everyone else. There is a hint of the attitude: "you have to care deeply for me even though I'm cold and I don't show any care." At the same time ENTjs need very deep caring relationships where the physical show of care is not important. So they don't care that the ISFj is cold and negativistic, as long as the ISFj deeply cares for them. That's what types call "true love" but us folks would call failed and cold relationship.

    Also, the ISFj is probably inclined to show their "true love" through actions, but types take this for granted. They treat this as a part of the ISFjs personality, not as any emotions that they are trying to show.
    But what do you know? I've never seen an ISFj being cold towards a person she's in love with. The trick is, you'll never get to see it because you can't be alone with them and their boyfriend, which is when they will be warmer. The other tricky party of Fi, is that it is mostly manifestated in extreme situations.

    Nobody would ever be in a relationship with somebody that was always "cold and non-caring" towards them. I wouldn't even believe they wanted to be with me.

    Lol, that video was just different pictures of them smiling and appearing as if they were enjoying themself, not to forget the Elvis Presley music. All one could gather from that is that they smile.
    You do know that people smile when they are happy, right?

    Anyway, you can't take seriously when an ISFj sighs if the ENTj does something silly saying something like "aaah what this is my boyfriend". If they see that you do have taken them seriously and think that they would rather be somewhere else (like I have done sometimes, and just told them "So go somewhere else" and went away), they'll be quick to take it back.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  40. #40
    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
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    Socionics.org has Scarlett O'Hara as a ESTp and Rhett Butler as a ESFj...I don't have a clue myself - I can't even remember if I've seen the whole film .

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