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Thread: How do you experience your dual-seeking/suggestive function?

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    Default How do you experience your dual-seeking/suggestive function?

    How does it manifest in you guys? Is it really all it's cracked up to be? (sorry if this kind of discussion has already been played out in another thread, I know I've seen it discussed).

    Before I met my husband, these are the things that always attracted me to others.

    --Witty/funny/quick, entertaining, understanding, positive/optimistic, "open-minded", understands me, doesn't ruminate, easily moves on, handles life's affairs with ease, makes life look easy. (I've had two relationships in my life, one was with an ESFp and the other with an ESTp. Both are Se....hmmm)

    What my husband was looking for:
    --Thoughtful, considerate, smart, fun-loving, understanding, amused by my sense of humor, kind, genuine, open-minded, flexible, good lay (It would be bias of me to omit/edit his responses).

    Do you guys see your dual seeking function, matching "the descriptions" of your dual? Can you give examples, either way. If the answer is no, can you describe what you seek and how your dual lacks it.

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    ahahahahaahah mine has pretty much never been (and no, I never looked for either!!!)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    mine has pretty much never been
    How so? What does your dual lack and what is it that you seek?

    (and no, I never looked for either!!!)

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    I'm having a little trouble putting this into words, so here goes:

    I basically look for someone with whom I can with. So basically it's either an ENFj or an INFp that does the trick. I want to be seen as significant, and I want someone to read wonderful poetry to me. I don't really know what it is, but when someone speaks in a -manner, I get all woozy inside.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzblut
    I want to be seen as significant,
    That is soooo endearing. I want to make someone feel significant and capable and loved and treasured and like they are the most special-est thing to ever walk this earth. Awwwwww.

    and I want someone to read wonderful poetry to me.
    Awwwwwwww!!!!! I luv writing poetry to by honey-bunches and he attempts poetry as well! It's always really simple yet completely adorable and REAL.

    I don't really know what it is, but when someone speaks in a -manner, I get all woozy inside.
    You did a great job of putting it into words! I totally saw where you were coming from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maizemedley
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    mine has pretty much never been
    How so? What does your dual lack and what is it that you seek?
    *sighs* ISFps are not strong enough or interesting enough. Sorry, it's the truth. I don't trust myself around them... they break too easily. Also, it's not a common enough thing to carry on a philosophical conversation with them.

    Don't get me wrong... they're great friends, but the person I'm in a relationship with is the one who I'll likely spend the most time with and who will know more about me than anyone else, someone with common goals and interests. I guess I just need more stimulation than what I can picture getting from an ISFp.
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    Quote Originally Posted by maizemedley
    Quote Originally Posted by Herzblut
    I want to be seen as significant,
    That is soooo endearing. I want to make someone feel significant and capable and loved and treasured and like they are the most special-est thing to ever walk this earth. Awwwwww.

    and I want someone to read wonderful poetry to me.
    Awwwwwwww!!!!! I luv writing poetry to by honey-bunches and he attempts poetry as well! It's always really simple yet completely adorable and REAL.

    I don't really know what it is, but when someone speaks in a -manner, I get all woozy inside.
    You did a great job of putting it into words! I totally saw where you were coming from.
    Well then I can't wait to find an INFp for me!

    I have a question for you: Do you ever get that woozy feeling when people use to you?
    , Se-sub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    *sighs* ISFps are not strong enough or interesting enough. Sorry, it's the truth. I don't trust myself around them... they break too easily.
    No sorries, it's not what you need. It's what you've observed and I believe your observations.

    the person I'm in a relationship with is the one who I'll likely spend the most time with and who will know more about me than anyone else
    Ahhh, you want someone who will KNOW more about you than anyone else. Someone who possesses clear insight into who you are and what you need at a given moment. So is it that your dual seems too self-absorbed in their weaknesses (you say they aren't strong enough) to know you? You don't imagine an ISFp "getting" you, knowing what you need? Sorry to pry, I'm just curious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzblut
    I have a question for you: Do you ever get that woozy feeling when people use to you?
    Okay, I will answer your question. It feels very "arousing" to me. I don't know why. Or even if it has to do with functions! Maybe I'm just easily swooned by Se. It stimulates me mentally, sexually, etc. etc. That's the case for me anyway. Again,

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    Quote Originally Posted by maizemedley
    Ahhh, you want someone who will KNOW more about you than anyone else. Someone who possesses clear insight into who you are and what you need at a given moment.
    Ummmm... interesting conclusion. There may be a bit of truth to that, because while I hate the idea of people thinking they understand me, I do really want the person I'm with to "get" me, to understand how I feel about the things I am looking for in life and to know enough about me that a certain amount of communication, the stupid stuff that people should just know anyways, can be assumed and the conversation can be deeper due to the efficiency won. Anyways... what I meant was that because that person is a part of my life, it's important that there's a connection. Gah, I guess I just said the same thing again in a different way. I guess I like to communicate with ... not soley, but much more than most people do. Though now that I think about it... People who I've been able to communicate with using in the past have been an ISFp, INTp, and ESFp... *scratches head*

    So is it that your dual seems too self-absorbed in their weaknesses (you say they aren't strong enough) to know you?
    No. My dual isn't strong enough because they just don't seem to understand that they have power over their life. The person I am with has to understand that life is what you make it. (blah blah blah, except in extreme cases such as living in the third world country or having had a labotomy)

    You don't imagine an ISFp "getting" you, knowing what you need?
    No.
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    *sighs* it's official, I'm insane
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzblut
    I'm having a little trouble putting this into words, so here goes:

    I basically look for someone with whom I can with. So basically it's either an ENFj or an INFp that does the trick. I want to be seen as significant, and I want someone to read wonderful poetry to me. I don't really know what it is, but when someone speaks in a -manner, I get all woozy inside.
    The girls that I suspect were ESTp that have been my friends usually seemed to love to get reassurance from me in a tactful manner. btw ESTp + ENFj is the biggest gab fest ever. I think they could easily corner the market on speed communication with each other.

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    makes me horny - I'm being completely serious.

    Some of the traits I look for in others are humour, curiosity, connectedness to the world around them, initiative, open-minded, able to take things with a grain of salt, argumentative, gentle, understanding, playful, huggable, and ideally comes complete with a "bad-guy" streak.

    The "bad-guy" streak is more than taken care of, my boyfriend is a preacher's son

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    Quote Originally Posted by ishysquishy
    makes me horny - I'm being completely serious.
    Thank you for being completely serious. Knowing it's not just me, makes me feel normal!

    Some of the traits I look for in others are humour, curiosity, connectedness to the world around them, initiative, open-minded, able to take things with a grain of salt, argumentative, gentle, understanding, playful, huggable, and ideally comes complete with a "bad-guy" streak.
    Oooooo yes! Able to take things with a grain a salt. That is soooo attractive. Curiosity!!! yes!

    The "bad-guy" streak is more than taken care of, my boyfriend is a preacher's son

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzblut
    I have a question for you: Do you ever get that woozy feeling when people use to you?
    Wanted to add this tid-bit; The way I understand/imagine "Se", is that it's layered in the ESTp's humor, philosophy, spontaneity...it shows up as confidence/bravery/smarts/wit and a whole other slew of adjectives. Se is usually very "shocking" to me, but it's not the kind of shock that repels me away. It draws me in. When I get a dose of Se, I feel smarter, more capable, usefull. I get a sense of belonging.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by maizemedley
    Ahhh, you want someone who will KNOW more about you than anyone else. Someone who possesses clear insight into who you are and what you need at a given moment.
    Ummmm... interesting conclusion. There may be a bit of truth to that, because while I hate the idea of people thinking they understand me, I do really want the person I'm with to "get" me, to understand how I feel about the things I am looking for in life and to know enough about me that a certain amount of communication, the stupid stuff that people should just know anyways, can be assumed and the conversation can be deeper due to the efficiency won. Anyways... what I meant was that because that person is a part of my life, it's important that there's a connection.
    The stupid stuff that people should just know is really hard for me to figure out. LOL. I have to TRY to understand where people are coming from. It is hard for me to KNOW what they need/would like etc. etc. I ask a lot of questions and create a lot of "dramas" to see people's reactions. To gauge and figure out what the person is all about. I have a friend who got pissed at me for taking her to this restaurant and reccomending to her that she try a certain dish. She was like, "How on earth did you think I would like that!!" I felt soooo bad. I thought she would like it, simply because I liked it. It was good and so I assumed it would be good in her mouth. I felt like I didn't really know her. =( Or at least, didn't meet up to her expectations of a "true friend." From now on, I try to really listen to her and what it is she needs/seeks etc. etc. It takes a lot of energy from me to really focus in and remember all that she shares and considers important. But it's worth it.

    Gah, I guess I just said the same thing again in a different way.
    That's okay, I understand better where you are coming from, because you said it in a different way.

    I guess I like to communicate with ... not soley, but much more than most people do. Though now that I think about it... People who I've been able to communicate with using in the past have been an ISFp, INTp, and ESFp... *scratches head*
    LOL, *scratches head too.*

    No. My dual isn't strong enough because they just don't seem to understand that they have power over their life. The person I am with has to understand that life is what you make it. (blah blah blah, except in extreme cases such as living in the third world country or having had a labotomy)
    LOL, funny how you added a disclaimer.
    I honestly do think you are describing an INFj, at least that's the way I see them. Fi-they readily get people. Easily look into people's state of mind, mood, etc. It's very mystical. Eerie. I almost feel naked around them. They are very responsible/ethical/fair people. They push themselves to be their most capable selves. They end up being guided by values rather than fleeting emotions. They consider emotions to be harmful in either direction. They prefer a balanced state. ISFp's are quite the opposite. They flourish in their emotionality, Fe. They easily experience the highs and lows and learn to establish a healthy flow of emotionality. Sorry, just Ni observations that I feel confident expressing.

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    On that note, Benefactors often act like thier beneficiaries, or at least perceive themselves that way.

    INFp --> INTj etc.

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    I am completely fascinated by and . I'm not that crazy about or though. When I meet someone who has T, I'm drawn to them like a moth to a flame. LOL. It's my semi-dual that has me at hello. :wink:

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    Default Duofalization & The dual seeking function

    What are the real implications of the dual seeking function in terms of growth?

    Does, for example, an INTj eventually learn the ways of Fe from an ESE, and know how to maintain emotional atmosphere?

    ?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Here's one possible thought: Your dual saves you from yourself. For an INTj, perhaps without your dual you're more likely to stay away from people?

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    perhaps... and more likely to disregard the human aspects of your decisions - pure 'logics', without recognizing the impact of people.
    So dualization would result in being more conscious of the realm of people in terms of decision making, perhaps
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    I think there are INTjs and ISTjs who are Fe-focused; Segolene Royal is an example. But it never seems the same as with ESFjs. The Ti IJs make the impression that they're focusing on, and succeeding at, optimizing their own Fe state, not those of others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I think there are INTjs and ISTjs who are Fe-focused; Segolene Royal is an example. But it never seems the same as with ESFjs. The Ti IJs make the impression that they're focusing on, and succeeding at, optimizing their own Fe state, not those of others.
    Actually, I've seen SFs of all 4 types who seem to develop an intellectual awareness on the axial side. So I think it works both ways.

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    Seems to last for the length of the interaction and a bit afterwards but soon all goes back to its natural level. For instance, ENTP will lose its spark. will fade into the distance. On the other hand insights the ISFP has gained will be eroded by changing circumstances until they have no meaning. Logical ways to tackle problems will have an even shorter currency as new types of problems arise.

    It truly is mutual however when the two are together, even though from the outside the trade off can seem unbalanced. For instance an ENTP will offer an ISFP insights about their environment, their problems, conceptual frameworks for getting things started and efective/efficient ways to solve problems. On the other hand the ISFP appears to simply make the ENTP feel good about themselves & life in general. Hardly fair. But it goes further than that. When the ENTP feels good he/she is much more likely to be stable in completing tasks and more receptive to others .... that can count for a lot .... Oh and also ISFP can often do some of the more tedious details that ENTPs hate.
    ILE

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    Somewhat. Fe is the dynamic adjustments I can't make when I try am in an IJ state. Fe is like thrusters, or "trim tabs" on boats perhaps. Those are some analogies I thought of in the past.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    A girl I used to know found her dual. She was ESE. It's interesting to watch her chaning and she is not the same person as before. Like socionists say, people when not dualized, will start to compensate it with something else, including adictions. She has quit smoking. Cut closer here wide social life, which compensated for her that emptiness in her life which she tried to fill. She is also drinking less which is good for an 18 y. o. She has changed into more relaxed mood and is becoming more introverted and introspective. Her neuroticims has degreaset into normal. Dualisation also makes people into more creative and poetic and indeed she has become into hobby writer publishing her works online. And as she writes on her blog, her sex life is magical and feels like the 7th heaven all night long. Well everything happening her life is great and goes just as I have prograstinated it will go. But I'm curious to know what will happen when the hormon rush is over. She had problems with her father. Will those problems come back to her or will dual relationship make them go away and she is finally able to stay down with one man? Because if the problems will go away then the socionics aproach to relationships is something different from the rest of the psychology, what tells that we will have to deal with them and they won't wanish by them selfs.
    Semiotical process

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    They still won't go away just because you are in a relationship with another person.

    Being with another person may allow her to expand her mind and be open to new things -- like the LII (hopefully) will show here how to deal with people problems in a more logical and rational way - how to handle her father and so on.

    But just because she's having a good sex life and "feels happy" does not necessarily mean that the core principles of her existence and paradigms have changed. They may, but finding a dual does not mean they must. Ultimately it is up to her own self what happens - which may be difficult for an ESE who so readily attritbutes things to other people and outside sources.

    She sounds used to looking for outside sources of pleasure, so until she takes real resonsability and accountibility for herself and her state, it is unlikely her big problems will change. If she had a month of " bootcamp" with me, she would understand clearly what she needed to do.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsb'07
    Because if the problems will go away then the socionics aproach to relationships is something different from the rest of the psychology, what tells that we will have to deal with them and they won't wanish by them selfs.
    I've couldn't agree more. Over the long term, we need to do away with this in American psychology.

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    Dualization works at a subconscious level. It somehow releases the stress that we suffer from, but are unaware of.

    In my personal duality (IEE-SLI) I can say that my dual feels good just by simply being around me. Like LII, SLI also need a positive atmosphere, but unlike an ESE, the emotional atmosphere of an IEE is not directed toward anybody, and this is relazing for the SLI as there is no need for response, although it is well rewarded when it shows up.

    The specific problem of SLI is that they don't understand well the motivations of their own actions so they do a lot of things which they don't really like. Since they are very little introspective, it takes external help in order to realize that they may not like things as they thought. SLI generally drink, for example, not to enjoy it, but because they subconsciously associate alcohol with de-inhibition. They drink, have sex for example, and then associate the whole experience with being drunk. So they can start to drink expecting (without knowing) that each time they become drunk will get laid. This, over time, turns into alcoholism, as they try harder to repeat the situation.

    Also, SLI strive for creativity and for variety, but having a poor Ne makes them to fall into routine fairly quickly.
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    I believe that when a person is truly self-realized, they acquire the ability to use their suggestive function maturely. I'm not sure if it's related to being in a dual-relationship, per se.

    She has changed into more relaxed mood and is becoming more introverted and introspective.
    I have seen this in Fe-dominants, and it is truly remarkable. The analog for the ITj would be becoming a powerful public speaker, being able to convey your worldview with succinctness and passion. For an ENp: to present your ideas with as much attention to form as to content (Douglas Hofstadter describes this in the new preface to Godel, Escher, Bach.) Etc. I would love to elaborate on this, but I am not as familiar with the others.

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    Default Appreciating functions in "dual seeking block"

    So this is true right? It is more natural for you to appreciate your hidden agenda function in others. Whenever you see someone skilled with this function you think "now that is an important skill, I want me some of that". However your dual seeking function is less obvious as it actually is a direct opposite of your own leading function and your self in a way. At first you might rebel against your dual seeking function and depreciate it. E.g. a Se type easily dismisses any warnings of long term consequences and figure they are only slowing them down. Ni type might see overtly Se people rushing into things and not understanding what they are doing and being sort of immature people. It takes time to learn to appreciate your dual seeking function and see how it complements your leading function despite being the total opposite.

    This is the reason why e.g. activity relations is easy to start and dual relations
    takes time to mature. And the reason why it is easier to appreciate a dual if you have previous long term interaction with your dual seeking function and you have seen how it can be useful in many situations and really complements your own strenghts.

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    Default How Conscious Are You of Your Dual Seeking function?

    i'm not sure....sometimes descriptions of ILE dual seeking functions seem sort of kind of on target other times it does not. when i read the SLE one for dual seeking this seems kind of on target, too.

    how well does the dual seeking description for your type fit you? how much does it tap in to your needs and desires?

    how are well developed dual seeking behaviors, which should not be well developed according to socionics, explained?

    is the suggestive function (dual seeking function) more out of one's consciousness than, say, the hidden agenda?

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Default Re: How Conscious Are You of Your Dual Seeking function?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively
    i'm not sure....sometimes descriptions of ILE dual seeking functions seem sort of kind of on target other times it does not. when i read the SLE one for dual seeking this seems kind of on target, too.

    how well does the dual seeking description for your type fit you? how much does it tap in to your needs and desires?

    how are well developed dual seeking behaviors, which should not be well developed according to socionics, explained?

    is the suggestive function (dual seeking function) more out of one's consciousness than, say, the hidden agenda?
    The dual seeking description fits well for me. I often have an overwhelming desire to be with someone who will just tell me what to do! Plan my life! Tell me what to order at a restaurant! I dunno. I mean, I can live without it but admittedly, it would be great to have. I don't know how I exhibit dual-seeking behavior. I feel like my hidden agenda (to understand) isn't hidden very well. I feel like I walk around knowing full well that I'm seeking understanding of people and situations and things. Whereas I am not always very aware of the dual-seeking all the time, only when I stop and think about what my issues are or when I'm around someone with lots of like a friend of mine or my brother-in-law. Is HA supposed to be hidden most of the time?
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    I'm not sure. Can someone tell me how LII dual-seeking works? I've noticed that I'm attracted to very animated, expressive people before, but is there more than that?
    type #33
    but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)

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    @bibliophile8: http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...overted_ethics

    you'll find your dual seeking (if you are LII that is) under suggestive or 5th function. it's an unconscious function.

    redbaron: so you feel like your dual seeking is pretty obvious? like it is almost conscious then? if i am ILE then dual seeking is Si if i am SLE then dual seeking is Ni. i kind of relate to both and also find that i can do behaviors related to both and find both Ni and Si helpful if somebody does it for me. but like i can't say i crave either one or anything.

    as far as hidden agenda, if i am ILE or SLE, then Fe would be hidden agenda. i hate doing things like trying to plan parties or get people excited about social events. i suck at it and if i tried to do it then i would look pathetic, as we've all been talking about. so i don't know how hidden the HA really is lol. i love Fe in others...this is totally obvious.

    just by way of example my LII brother with Fe as dual seeking does this kind of social thing all the time; these skills are pretty well developed. he can pull off a party very easily (it's close relationships he struggles with more). with Si, he kinda needs a lot of help and advice.

    so i dunno...i'm just wondering whether other people think dual seeking really isn't all that obvious or something...

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    I'm absolutely clueless to the existence of my dual seeking function. With an exception when I'm with someone who has this function as a lead function, then I can sense that I need him/her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively
    @bibliophile8: http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...overted_ethics

    you'll find your dual seeking (if you are LII that is) under suggestive or 5th function. it's an unconscious function.

    redbaron: so you feel like your dual seeking is pretty obvious? like it is almost conscious then? if i am ILE then dual seeking is Si if i am SLE then dual seeking is Ni. i kind of relate to both and also find that i can do behaviors related to both and find both Ni and Si helpful if somebody does it for me. but like i can't say i crave either one or anything.

    as far as hidden agenda, if i am ILE or SLE, then Fe would be hidden agenda. i hate doing things like trying to plan parties or get people excited about social events. i suck at it and if i tried to do it then i would look pathetic, as we've all been talking about. so i don't know how hidden the HA really is lol. i love Fe in others...this is totally obvious.

    just by way of example my LII brother with Fe as dual seeking does this kind of social thing all the time; these skills are pretty well developed. he can pull off a party very easily (it's close relationships he struggles with more). with Si, he kinda needs a lot of help and advice.

    so i dunno...i'm just wondering whether other people think dual seeking really isn't all that obvious or something...
    Bold: not all the time, no. My dual-seeking only really comes out when I'm intensely pondering why I can't seem to get anything done or what's truly wrong with me. Then I realize (mostly since I've been aware of socionics) that I need . I can do Se-behaviors when I'm really concentrating on it and only in short spurts. But there is that sense that it would be so nice to have someone else providing it.

    As far as HA is concerned, there are times that I ignore it or skip over it because I know I'm going to look pathetic. LOL Like I'll make the mistake of asking a question to try to understand and when the person starts explaining it, I realize that I'm not following them and I don't care to make them repeat themselves so I pretend that I get it when really I don't. I do this with my husband sometimes but he almost always can tell that I'm not following. I really do want to understand but I don't always have the patience to learn so I tell myself it doesn't really matter. But then I feel empty like I wish I could find a short cut or just know automatically. Sometimes when I have an epiphany about something, I'll get all excited and tell a friend and when I'm explaining it I'll realize that it sounded obvious. I'll have to think of examples later. Running out to a party now....
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    I feel more easily manipulated by types than types. This is normal. types are just so cool. types say that I'm hard-minded.

    btw types may find types hard-minded too...

    btw manipulation isn't that bad, it makes you have behaviours you wouldn't get otherwise by non-violent means.

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    I'm very aware of mine. I'm instantly in awe of people who seem to pull correct decisions out of nowhere. I love it.

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    I can't imagine myself not knowing that I need Fi. I think I used to just assume that everyone did. Without someone there to provide Fi, in the past I've found myself doing some pretty reckless things, acting out, I suppose.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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