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Thread: wikisocion EII description

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    Default wikisocion EII description

    It describes me perfectly.

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    Which description are you referring to?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    eunice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    Which description are you referring to?
    [web:e1cda0abc1]http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Ethical_Intuitive_Introtim[/web:e1cda0abc1]

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    Eunice? Which of these social rolls do you think fits you best?

    "1. The person who is always exemplary and perfect in all he or she does, but is far more focused on achieving his internal ideal of perfection than achieving more concrete goals in life.
    2. The self-sacrificing martyr who hasn't found protection and refuge in life, and becomes the servant of a failing and hopeless cause. "
    EII 4w5

    so/sx (?)

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    I am honored to have EII as my dual.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christy B
    Eunice? Which of these social rolls do you think fits you best?

    "1. The person who is always exemplary and perfect in all he or she does, but is far more focused on achieving his internal ideal of perfection than achieving more concrete goals in life.
    2. The self-sacrificing martyr who hasn't found protection and refuge in life, and becomes the servant of a failing and hopeless cause. "
    Those always sounded to me like two sides of the same coin, with the first one being one's mode or way of life and the second being the result of that way being in conflict with the world at large, of being undervalued or dismissed. I guess what I'm saying is that the first is who I am and the second is an instantiation of number one, if the values I live by are rejected, even by the world at large. This analysis always tends to remind me of W.E.B. DuBois.
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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2
    Quote Originally Posted by Christy B
    Eunice? Which of these social rolls do you think fits you best?

    "1. The person who is always exemplary and perfect in all he or she does, but is far more focused on achieving his internal ideal of perfection than achieving more concrete goals in life.
    2. The self-sacrificing martyr who hasn't found protection and refuge in life, and becomes the servant of a failing and hopeless cause. "
    Those always sounded to me like two sides of the same coin, with the first one being one's mode or way of life and the second being the result of that way being in conflict with the world at large, of being undervalued or dismissed. I guess what I'm saying is that the first is who I am and the second is an instantiation of number one, if the values I live by are rejected, even by the world at large. This analysis always tends to remind me of W.E.B. DuBois.
    At certain times in my life I will focus more on one "side of the coin" than the other, though both are always working. At times I can ignore the outside world while trying to perfect myself. (This usually happens after I am completely drained/ill from putting all of myself into some project for the outside world.) Once I have spent a good amount of time on myself, I will then go back out into the world and do it all over again. . .
    EII 4w5

    so/sx (?)

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    Hmmm, the description is mostly correct if applied to me.

    1. Introverted ethics
    EIIs are very attuned to the psychological atmosphere of interaction and to their own feelings towards people and things. They treasure deep feelings of attachment and strive to deepen emotional bonds between people and harmonize relationships.
    Very true, and frustrating...


    2. Extroverted intuition
    EIIs have a natural understanding of people's inner makeup and see what can be done with that makeup to bring them closer to ideals. EIIs have a very well-developed view of what people and relationships should be like and are able to help others reach those ideals.
    Somewhat true, but I don't believe in the "very well-developed view of what people and relationships should be like." In fact, I don't really assume that I know how someone or a relationship should be like. However, I do have a feeling or hunch when something isn't going in the right direction, such as something's "missing" but I don't know exactly what it is.


    3. Introverted logic
    EIIs are not easily able to abstract themselves from the human dimension and apply "cold" logic. When they try to do this, they easily become unsure if their reasoning is correct.
    I don't feel that this applies to me and I think that there is more to than what it says here. I do trust in my abilities to apply logic.

    [4. Extroverted sensing
    EIIs are typically negligent of their surroundings and have difficulty keeping track of objects or constantly monitoring things and people around them.
    moving on...


    5. Extroverted logic
    EIIs have a great admiration for people who are able to get things done neatly and efficiently in the outside world. They themselves consistently forget to consider whether their activities are actually achieving their intended goal, whether their time spent is bringing worthy proceeds, and whether their activities are organized in the most rational way. They subconsciously expect and appreciate it when others take interest in the effectiveness of their activities and helps to take an objective look at what they are doing.
    Very true, with a big exception: I never forget to consider whether my time is being spent wisely, though I intentionally avoid thinking about time when I just want to be lazy . The fact that there is a faster way of doing something that took me longer to do makes me angry. Waste of time = waste of energy... I sometimes get in a dilemma when dealing with ESTjs in that I see some of them take too long (or too short) on some things that don't really deserve the time they allot for it, but then I feel that telling them about it will hit their . It's a little frustrating, I feel like saying: "noooooo... what the hell are you doing??!?!" followed by slaps to the face .


    6. Introverted sensing
    EIIs tend to build up stress related to their work-related activities and go overboard in their attempt to be exemplary at work and in all other areas of life. They need people and situations to help them relax and take it easy and forget about their idealism for a while to just enjoy the moment as it is.
    Very true, specially building up stress.

    The rest is ok...

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    The reason why you like the description is because someone from delta wrote the damn things. Just look at the description for LSI and you can easily see that it was written by an LSE with a jaundiced prejudice against LSIs. It's because they lack . They cannot stand the fact that the world runs on so they take it out online - betraying the passive aggressiveness that LSEs are famous for - these miserable people are unable to confront their problems.
    ISTj.

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    You might be right in that someone from delta wrote the EII description, and I do agree that it is a tad on the positive side. I found the Se polr description part to be very simplified (not that I have a problem with that ). I was reading the ISTj description and didn't sound bad though, maybe I didn't read the same one you did. On the other hand if you read the INFj description they have in similarminds you can see how they exagerated negative aspects.

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    cunnilingus epilepsy inducer
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    There's barely anything written down. You guys must be easily pleased.

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    "the self sacrificing martyr" that's my mother. sigh.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_maguoo
    The reason why you like the description is because someone from delta wrote the damn things. Just look at the description for LSI and you can easily see that it was written by an LSE with a jaundiced prejudice against LSIs. It's because they lack . They cannot stand the fact that the world runs on so they take it out online - betraying the passive aggressiveness that LSEs are famous for - these miserable people are unable to confront their problems.

    I bet they'd love more submissions of descriptions from people of various types. Go for it!
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    The descriptions are a bit too simple. But they're mostly okay. I'll only comment on the ones I question.

    EIIs are not easily able to abstract themselves from the human dimension and apply "cold" logic.
    I agree with Sereno that there must be more to Ti than this. Although I do agree that it is difficult for me to abstract from the "human dimension". It's not really just difficult, often I don't see the point. Sometimes I believe that if I could only see the point, then I could do it.

    Extroverted sensing
    EIIs are typically negligent of their surroundings and have difficulty keeping track of objects or constantly monitoring things and people around them.
    Well yes, but that's a pretty shallow understanding of Se-polr. Difficulty keeping track of things is the least of my issues in this area. This is strange, because elsewhere on the Wiki, I find this description of Se-polr:

    http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...verted_sensing
    The individual tends to overreact to aggressive or confrontational behavior, taking it as a personal threat when it may only be a knee-jerk reaction or the result of a bad mood.

    He tends to avoid intruding on others' space or engaging in behavior that may be perceived as coercive, and tries hard to handle his needs by being disciplined and well-prepared himself - rather than relying on others to do things for him. If these strategies fail, his efforts at dealing with the resulting conflict make him look actively pushy in a way that appears awkward and unnatural to others. This opens him up to painful criticism and feelings of weakness and helplessness.

    He is able to moralize and instruct others about what they should do and why, but he is not prepared for others' active resistance or refusal to do as he says. In his mind, this would require him to put aside reason and good feelings and simply make the other person do what is necessary. This is extremely difficult, if not impossible, for him to do.
    I like that one a lot better, and I would love it if we could see how this relates to EIIs. As for the two common social roles, I really relate to neither. I am not perfect. No one would ever think of me as "the person who is always exemplary and perfect" and I am so not a martyr.

    I do agree that I am far more focused on achieving <my> internal ideal of perfection than achieving more concrete goals in life. That is absolutely true. But I have no causes. I wish I had one, but I don't. Or rather, I have a million and none I will devote myself to.
    EII
    4w5, sp/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    I am honored to have EII as my dual.
    i am really getting sick of you blindly parading this nonsense

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    Ok.

    I've asked you before what you think about my type. If you have ideas, let's hear them.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    This description was just a quick sketch to fill in the empty page. Feel free to contribute to improving it. The LSI description in mention suffers from some unclear phrases and some bias from one contributor (not an LSE, so that has nothing to do with it) and needs quite a bit of improvement.
    It is easier for the eye of a camel to pass through a rich man than for a needle to enter the kingdom of heaven.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    Ok.

    I've asked you before what you think about my type. If you have ideas, let's hear them.
    not having any ideas about your type doesn't mean that i'm not sick of your utterly blind statements like "OMG EIIs ARE TEH AWESOME EVERYBODY SHOULD WORSHIP TEH EII"

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    *withdrawn*
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    The EII is emotion turned inwards. A cardinal act of selfishness for anyone who values .
    ISTj.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_maguoo
    The EII is emotion turned inwards. A cardinal act of selfishness for anyone who values .
    Yes, this perception causes much pain to the EII, because we see showing our feelings as selfish. We cannot help others feel "calm" if we are showing our emotions. When I have showed someone my feelings I feel like I have crossed their boundaries inappropriately and it disturbs me for a long time after.

    I live in a family of Betas and no one understands me. They see me as utterly selfish. All their Fe really tires me out and at times I perceive it as emotionally violent.
    EII 4w5

    so/sx (?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christy B
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_maguoo
    The EII is emotion turned inwards. A cardinal act of selfishness for anyone who values .
    Yes, this perception causes much pain to the EII, because we see showing our feelings as selfish. We cannot help others feel "calm" if we are showing our emotions. When I have showed someone my feelings I feel like I have crossed their boundaries inappropriately and it disturbs me for a long time after.

    I live in a family of Betas and no one understands me. They see me as utterly selfish. All their Fe really tires me out and at times I perceive it as emotionally violent.
    I relate to this.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    Ok.

    I've asked you before what you think about my type. If you have ideas, let's hear them.
    not having any ideas about your type doesn't mean that i'm not sick of your utterly blind statements like "OMG EIIs ARE TEH AWESOME EVERYBODY SHOULD WORSHIP TEH EII"


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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    Ok.

    I've asked you before what you think about my type. If you have ideas, let's hear them.
    not having any ideas about your type doesn't mean that i'm not sick of your utterly blind statements like "OMG EIIs ARE TEH AWESOME EVERYBODY SHOULD WORSHIP TEH EII"
    +1

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    *After many sharp facial movements and muttering under his breath*

    Is that so? That is a sure fire way to get me to stop - as you wish.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  26. #26
    Creepy-bg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    *After many sharp facial movements and muttering under his breath*

    Is that so? That is a sure fire way to get me to stop - as you wish.
    just to back up your stated desire (honestly not to be a dick or get you to leave)... what are you doing here? I thought you were taking a week long break?

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    Old business. This strand was started before today. I first berated niffweed in my response, going off on passion among other things. Then SL, and now Eunice. So now - forget it. You don't like, you don't appreciate it? I'm game. It had not realized I was so thoroughly wasting my time. So do be direct, BG, this thread was on my radar for a while. I decided to not avoid it. Same thing for the Celine Dion thread, and perhaps that other thread in Delta.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  28. #28
    Creepy-bg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    Old business. This strand was started before today. I first berated niffweed in my response, going off on passion among other things. Then SL, and now Eunice. So now - forget it. You don't like, you don't appreciate it? I'm game. It had not realized I was so thoroughly wasting my time. So do be direct, BG, this thread was on my radar for a while. I decided to not avoid it. Same thing for the Celine Dion thread, and perhaps that other thread in Delta.
    whatever... don't get pissy... I was just trying to help you out with your stated goal of avoiding the forum. For fucks sake, try to help a person out and they just take a shit on the hood of your car.



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    It is not being pissy, that is the answer.

    +1 for not valuing Fe
    I'll have to work on it all around. You could even say that my original blunder that niffweed called out was not being able to use Fe very well.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    eunice's Avatar
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    I just put in quite a substantial amount of information. Not sure if the other INFjs can identify with them since I have written them with myself in mind.

    link

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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    Well done, I think the modifications you made were very perceptive. Although I generally find my time management skills to be rather exemplary (unless falling into your other caveats where I become very engrossed in something and/or am not looking forward to it at all).

    It's kind of stupid but if I don't want to do something badly enough, sometimes I flat out blow it off even though it might impact me in a horribly negative way. If that has an impact on others, I often become crippled with guilt, which can lead to me apologizing to them indirectly and avoiding them until they try to take some iniative in contacting me.

    I consider it something like my dark side or at least neurotic and, as I said, quite moronic. Though this could hardly be considered healthy behavior, so it's probably irrelevant to the wiki entry.
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