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Thread: LIEs-ENTjs and lying

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    Default LIEs-ENTjs and lying

    I absolutely know by intituion that my ENTj friend is lying about running into or messing with a girl. He is such a terrible liar about it too. Has anyone else an ENTj story like that? My radar is buzzing terribly over this.
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    six turnin', four burnin' stevENTj's Avatar
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    I would say I'm probably a very bad liar, which is why I really don't lie. But I think I can also sense very easily when other people are lying too. It's the natural skepticism and questioning everything. I don't think very many lies get past me.
    Te-INTp/ILI, my wife: Fi-ISFj/ESI, with laser beam death rays for ESTp/SLEs, lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    I would say I'm probably a very bad liar, which is why I really don't lie. But I think I can also sense very easily when other people are lying too. It's the natural skepticism and questioning everything. I don't think very many lies get past me.
    Nothing gets by me. My intuition is always in high gear and I catch every little off tune word or timber in the voice that alerts me. People usually confess as I can usually come up with some facts even if I don't know a thing about what happened. I am so psychic it's unreal.

    But I just want to know if other people find ENTj's in lies as they can't hide it or is it their nature to lie and sneak? Sorry to all your ENTj's out there! One bad apple is spoiling the whole bunch!
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    Same here. I lie as little as possible, because I really dislike it and because I know I'm not good at it.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    six turnin', four burnin' stevENTj's Avatar
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    yeah, I don't really lie, but I do exaggerate and am very sarcastic at times.

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    So are you all saying ENTj's are honest? Not that any type are liars. But the only ENTj I know seems sneaky. He is very religious and his conscience bothers him a lot. He doesn't exaggerate but lies by ommision.
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    i don't think they are aware of the physical signs that give away whether or not someone is lying so they can be bad liars.

    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis
    He doesn't exaggerate but lies by ommision.
    I found this very interesting . if other people are reading motives into his actions that he does not have (because he doesn't mention them) how is he lying? In the past I used to get angry at people for doing that to me because it was as if they were trying to remake my personality in their image. Wouldn't he just be being "evasive"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    i don't think they are aware of the physical signs that give away whether or not someone is lying so they can be bad liars.

    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis
    He doesn't exaggerate but lies by ommision.
    I found this very interesting . if other people are reading motives into his actions that he does not have (because he doesn't mention them) how is he lying? In the past I used to get angry at people for doing that to me because it was as if they were trying to remake my personality in their image. Wouldn't he just be being "evasive"?
    Well, no. Well, okay. He lies by ommision by telling half of the truth. ie . . . he told me a story that made him sound good but then I found out the whole story and it wasn't the truth that he had made it out to be in the story he told me. In fact the whole story was the opposite of what he made it out to be to me. And when I question him about things I already know the answer to, he gets evasive and/or make things out to be someone else's mistake in meaning.
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    ah that is different

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    Creepy-Paul

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    Almost none of the ENTj’s that I have met would flat out lie. They grossly, grossly exaggerate and they are also extremely good at spinning the truth in the most favorable manner to them. They tend to tell the truth and nothing but the truth, but not the whole of it. I am not really sure if that counts as lying though.

    Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis
    So are you all saying ENTj's are honest? Not that any type are liars. But the only ENTj I know seems sneaky. He is very religious and his conscience bothers him a lot. He doesn't exaggerate but lies by ommision.
    Is he the marine or ex-marine you mentioned previously? I do have my doubts that he's an ENTj.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Paul said: Almost none of the ENTj’s that I have met would flat out lie. They grossly, grossly exaggerate and they are also extremely good at spinning the truth in the most favorable manner to them. They tend to tell the truth and nothing but the truth, but not the whole of it. I am not really sure if that counts as lying though.

    That's probably more accurate than I explained it. Thanks, Paul. But if he makes it sound like one thing by omission and another with the whole truth, then I call that lying or hiding the truth. Why say anything at all?

    Steve said: It's salesmanship.

    He constantly calls himself a used car salesman.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis
    So are you all saying ENTj's are honest? Not that any type are liars. But the only ENTj I know seems sneaky. He is very religious and his conscience bothers him a lot. He doesn't exaggerate but lies by ommision.
    Is he the marine or ex-marine you mentioned previously? I do have my doubts that he's an ENTj.
    Yes, he is that Marine. Cone typed him INTj but I disagree and say ENTj as he seems to fit the description perfectly. My daughter says he is very uppity and thinks too highly of himself. He does I think but tries to hide it.

    What type do you think he is, Expat, and why?
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    I can always tell when ENTjs try and butter me up. I dont find them to be liars, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis
    Yes, he is that Marine. Cone typed him INTj but I disagree and say ENTj as he seems to fit the description perfectly. My daughter says he is very uppity and thinks too highly of himself. He does I think but tries to hide it.

    What type do you think he is, Expat, and why?
    Well, if you and Cone, who know him personally, have typed him as xNTj, I'm sure that there must be good reasons.

    What I find odd is:

    - his being a marine: I would associate that sort of job choice with strong S types, who have invested a lot of time in their own bodies and who are comfortable with rules and authority being imposed on them. I find it very difficult to believe that an ENTj or INTj would want to, or be able to, be a marine;

    - his being so religious but refusing to explain why or discuss it - I can only see an ENTj or INTj doing that if he had already discussed it exhaustively with the person and decided it was useless;

    - "used car salesman", "lying" etc

    - "he is very uppity and thinks too highly of himself" - ENTjs tend to think highly of their ideas, but not of themselves.

    My general impression is of an ESTp, and perhaps what Cone saw that made him type as INTj was the strong . I think ESTps are more likely to be seen as used car salesmen, to think highly of themselves, and to be marines. I can also see why you might mistake an ESTp for an ENTj.

    On the other hand, I find it unlikely that an ESTp could ever be typed as INTj, so perhaps ISTp - - that I can see.

    So my choices would be

    1) ESTp
    2) ISTp
    3) ESTj
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    So my choices would be

    1) ESTp
    2) ISTp
    3) ESTj
    After reading all the descriptions and talking with Cone. I think ISTp. Not sure what Cone says except an Introvert of some kind. That puts him in Illusionary relations with my ESFp daugher. I can see that in their relationship too. Amazing how you can be so wrong about someone for so long. Of course it takes time to really see a person.

    Thank you, Expat!

    Here's his pic. What do you think from a VI?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis
    After reading all the descriptions and talking with Cone. I think ISTp. Not sure what Cone says except an Introvert of some kind. That puts him in Illusionary relations with my ESFp daugher. I can see that in their relationship too. Amazing how you can be so wrong about someone for so long. Of course it takes time to really see a person.

    Thank you, Expat!

    Here's his pic. What do you think from a VI?
    I know nothing about VI, perhaps someone else can try it - -

    Based on the information you gave, now I also think that ISTp is the likeliest rather than ESTp.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    seems pretty initiating and rigid... probably ESTj

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    I'm entj and I rarely lie and almost never flat out lie for that matter. I'm a) not too good at it (though alright) and b) it's easier to stretch and manipulate the truth so that it can be perceived according to how I rationalize it. I'm very good at telling when others lie to me not because I can "read it on them" but because I can logically asses things like situations and likely courses of action that are contradictory to the mentioned lie.
    ENTJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    I would say I'm probably a very bad liar, which is why I really don't lie. But I think I can also sense very easily when other people are lying too. It's the natural skepticism and questioning everything. I don't think very many lies get past me.
    I 'd say I'm a pretty good liar when I want to. I think this is due to the fact that I can hide my emotional state so well, rather than otherwise special "acting skills". People use facial expression and other external signals to figure out whether someone is lieing or not. They can't do that when there isn't much "data" coming from you in the first place.

    I think ENTjs success at lieing depends on whom they are lieing to. I have several ENTj friends and I find it pretty easy to tell when they are lieing (i should say though that they are far more prone to exaggerating or conciously presenting the truth in a way that can be misleading to most but convenient to their purpose, rather than outright lieing).
    INTJ [mbti]
    INTp [socionics]

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