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Thread: Implications of having a 9-wing for 1w9 and 8w9

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    Default Implications of having a 9-wing for 1w9 and 8w9

    I think the w9 in ennagram explains for a lot of things, particularly my "reservedness" - look at my photo/current avatar.

    It is contradictory, because it sort of is a decoy for the underlying intensity, pressure, and energy that I have.


    Do you have any experience with w9 people?
    Or if you are one yourself, do you have any comments about how it can be misleading?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    I say this because, during meetings, or when I am talking to people about interesting things, I am ANYTHING but reserved and nonchalant. I think my energy surprises people. Today I received another comment about how at first I seemed distant, but then during the workshop I was the most outspoken person in my group and the whole class.

    It seems it is a matter of interest, or importance, as it were to me.


    (and again, this reminds of some of the things mbtt INTJ mentioned)
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Probably. 8w9s do not have this tension you speak of, however. They also don't feel the need to speak as much as you do when in discussion concerning an issue you're interested in. Anyone with a 9 wing will naturally have a more reserved aura than their w7/w2 counterpart. It is inherent within the type. And it was R&H who said that the wing provides certain qualities and behaviours which often contradict the base type's characteristic behaviour (e.g. a reserved 8 seems contradictory, as the 8 is naturally outgoing and outwardly aggressive). While critics of the Enneagram would probably use this against the theory by claiming that its overwrought flexibility just proves how unrealistic it is, I actually see it as something which can be harnessed as a pro of the Enneagram; that there are many different people who have the same basic motivation but who look very different to one another, so that, rather than their being nine types, there's closer to one hundred different combinations.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Probably. 8w9s do not have this tension you speak of, however. They also don't feel the need to speak as much as you do when in discussion concerning an issue you're interested in.
    Explain
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    I say this because, during meetings, or when I am talking to people about interesting things, I am ANYTHING but reserved and nonchalant. I think my energy surprises people. Today I received another comment about how at first I seemed distant, but then during the workshop I was the most outspoken person in my group and the whole class.
    same for me.
    IEI - the nasty kind...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Probably. 8w9s do not have this tension you speak of, however. They also don't feel the need to speak as much as you do when in discussion concerning an issue you're interested in.
    Explain
    Because you're a 1, naturally your morals and do-the-right-thing attitude will urge you to stand up and speak for something you believe in. An 8w9 won't care as much; their morals will be lax.

    Also, 8w9s are characteristically calm - 1s are not.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Probably. 8w9s do not have this tension you speak of, however. They also don't feel the need to speak as much as you do when in discussion concerning an issue you're interested in.
    Explain
    Because you're a 1, naturally your morals and do-the-right-thing attitude will urge you to stand up and speak for something you believe in. An 8w9 won't care as much; their morals will be lax.
    Oh, yes, I wasn't sure what you were referring to

    Also, 8w9s are characteristically calm - 1s are not.
    8s aren't characteristically calm either, it is the w9, as we know.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Probably. 8w9s do not have this tension you speak of, however. They also don't feel the need to speak as much as you do when in discussion concerning an issue you're interested in.
    Explain
    Because you're a 1, naturally your morals and do-the-right-thing attitude will urge you to stand up and speak for something you believe in. An 8w9 won't care as much; their morals will be lax.
    Oh, yes, I wasn't sure what you were referring to

    Also, 8w9s are characteristically calm - 1s are not.
    8s aren't characteristically calm either, it is the w9, as we know.
    True. But I think there is an internal calm present in the 8w9 that the 1w9 lacks. Read about them both here to see what I mean.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    I really do not see the difference (I have seen that many times before).

    But I think there is an internal calm present in the 8w9 that the 1w9 lacks
    That seems unfounded. What I mean by that is, all the 9 types have internal calmness. There might be a difference between 8w9 calm and 1w9 calm, but I would not say 1w9s lack internal calm.

    Or at least if that is the case, then I cannot be 1w9
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    The funny thing is, you say that, but then I thought the LSE has 'high internal emotionality'. How interesting.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    The funny thing is, you say that, but then I thought the LSE has 'high internal emotionality'. How interesting.

    Yeah, I prefer to keep it under wraps, but I generally fail.
    I am realizing I may be wrong about 1w9.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JTDW
    Yeah, I prefer to keep it under wraps, but I generally fail.
    I am realizing I may be wrong about 1w9.
    Perhaps. What other types do you have down for serious consideration, out of interest?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    E8

    I considered 1, but actually reading the material, 1 becomes less likely. I generally prefer to read about every type - so that I do not miss any considerations. That is what I did to determine I was LSE, and that is why I am confident in it. The more I read about enneagram (all types, all books, all sources), the more it points toward 8 - of course, 8w9.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Default Wings getting in the way of fulfillment

    Do you think that could be the case?

    Perhaps it's part of my own development but I find the more I focus on 9 type things the less happy I am. 9 energy is 'ok' with me, but, I can't act as a 9 because it takes away from my real focus, which is more "power" oriented - in terms of what controls or is influencing me.

    If I'm too laid back and too 9ish, I feel like I'm being too passive, and I want to be "above the influence".


    Does that translate to anyone else's experiences? Or do you find wings to be... comforting somehow?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Do you think that could be the case?

    Perhaps it's part of my own development but I find the more I focus on 9 type things the less happy I am. 9 energy is 'ok' with me, but, I can't act as a 9 because it takes away from my real focus, which is more "power" oriented - in terms of what controls or is influencing me.

    If I'm too laid back and too 9ish, I feel like I'm being too passive, and I want to be "above the influence".


    Does that translate to anyone else's experiences? Or do you find wings to be... comforting somehow?
    Interesting thought. I'm not totally sure if i'm a 7-wing or a 5-wing (I identify with both). But it's true, now that i think about it, when i'm leaning more 7-ish or more 5-ish i feel out of balance and need to do something about it. Being too 7 wears me down after a while, or like you said for yourself, is highly distracting to me. Being too 5 is too isolating and lonely--makes me sad and angsty. (that is, if my understanding of them is correct).
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    I feel that way about my 9 stress point.

    So the real lesson to learn here is 9 tendencies suck balls
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    They aren't really useful towards anything. Just 'being chill' I guess. Maybe I could turn it into "being chill" while doing extreme things? IDK. I think I have a lot of conflict there.

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    8w9 keeps the peace while maintaining control. Generally speaking, 8w9s are the kind of people who subtly and sneakily manipulate people into doing what they want, without outright ordering them around. Good examples of this would be Palpatine, Bill Gates, or Satan.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    When I lean 2 I feel like an attention-seeking wannabe. It's last in my tritype, though.
    I don't feel bad when I lean 1, just kinda like a robot. I could be confusing 1 with , though.

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    i suck at enneagram, so maybe i'm wrong, but isn't the primary type generally the biggest thing getting in the way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Good examples of this would be Palpatine, Bill Gates, or Satan.
    lol. seriously? i don't even

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    lol. seriously? i don't even
    I presume he means Satan as depicted in works of fiction like Doctor Faustus (though that was actually a demon named Mephistopheles...), most movies featuring him as a character, and his depiction in the New Testament.

    I'd agree with him that 99% of the time, Satan is depicted as an 8w9 (usually some sort of Ni-ego - often LIE). The only exceptions to this seem to be his 8w7 SLE depiction in The Devil's Advocate, and his 4w3 IEI depiction in Paradise Lost.
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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    i suck at enneagram, so maybe i'm wrong, but isn't the primary type generally the biggest thing getting in the way?
    I think the primary type defines your preferred path to self-fulfillment.



    lol. seriously? i don't even
    As CCL said, most Satan fictional depictions (as well as his depiction in the New Testament), have been control-driven, subtly manipulative and mostly conflict-avoidant. 8w9.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    wings are most useful in two ways imo

    1) They let you understand on how your type bleeds over into nearby types

    2) They let you understand which way (there are two options for wings) or direction you bleed over

    for example... if your 8

    8's bleed over into 7 and 9

    and 8w9 is different from an 8w7

    then sometimes there is no real clear direction between w7 and w9 and then one says they are straight 8.

    Either way wings are just another tool for self-understanding, they don't really create problems with fulfillment.

    At the boundary between 8 and 9 is the issue of acting on the instincts or suppression of the instincts.

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    i have no idea how my wing manifests. i just go w/ 1 cos i relate to it more than 8. /shrug

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    e8 -- Act on instinct
    e9 -- Suppress instinct
    e1 -- Control instinct

    What is instinct?

    Issues of primal desire and rage.....

    e8 -- Bold, People of Action, Heroic, Socipathic, Territorial, Commanding
    e9 -- Flimsy/Passive, Dreamers, Idealistic, Dissociative, Harmonious
    e1 -- Perfectionists, Control Freak, Moral, Pious, High Standards

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    8w9 keeps the peace while maintaining control. Generally speaking, 8w9s are the kind of people who subtly and sneakily manipulate people into doing what they want, without outright ordering them around. Good examples of this would be Palpatine, Bill Gates, or Satan.
    I think those are actually great examples. I don't know enough about gates to say, though.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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