Stereotypes of ESFps in relationships

[Khamelion]

SEE seems to have a reputation for being sluts, for lack of a better word. It has been said elsewhere that they lose interest and just disregard people like trash when they are bored.

I call bullshit.


Nearly any Exxx can exhibit slutty behavior for one thing. Secondly, among the ESFp's I've known and myself, they just have a very high need for a certain kind of stimulation, and low tolerance for the kind they don't need. We can benefit from a great deal of stimulations, but there are some things we just are not interested in (Ne for one thing). We are very aware of what we need/want, and if you are not fitting it then we are aware it won't work out ahead of time and just end it to avoid disasters. A lot of people take this as, "You suck, I'm rejecting you, lalala next!" When we are actually protecting you. We don't think the relationship has changed in the least bit, minus the intimacy. If we were interested in you enough in the first place, took the time to get to know you and like you as a friend, that will never fade. However, lack of stimulation will cause it to dwindle a bit, but it is ALWAYS there. And we are waiting here with a flint, you bring the tinder :wink:


I'm not sure why I went on this semi-rant. It just seemed like a big misconception that needed to be pointed out.


Disclaimer: ESFp whore bitches exsist, just like INTj bitches, ISFp bitches, yadayadayada.

Another thing is how the relationship starts and with what type. If it is a quick relationship, initiated out of lust and such, the bored factor is at its most likely to come up. This being due to SEE being impulsive when it comes to things like pleasure and a good time in general, and with me, I am able to over-look quite a few flaws when I've been in this sort of relationship.

If it is a relationship started out as a friendship, most likely that bond will never leave the SEE's mind, regardless. Not that this can't happen in the faster relationships, but the faster relationships are more likely to get others hurt.

[BLauritson]

I've known several ESFps and I've never known one to be slutty. Well, used to work with an ESFp who seemed to fancy any man with a pulse, but she didn't sleep around or anything like that. I've not known of any ESFps to cheat or anything like that.

There you go, not everyone thinks ESFps are slutty

[FDG]

I suppose many of the girls I know that kiss many boys at clubs are ESFps and ENFjs and ESFjs. That doesn't mean that they're slutty given that they don't have a boyfriend. Personally I don't see much bad in a girl that sleeps with an higher than average amount of guys given that she isn't in a relationship.

[aka-kitsune]

SEE seems to have a reputation for being sluts, for lack of a better word. It has been said elsewhere that they lose interest and just disregard people like trash when they are bored.

Nearly any Exxx can exhibit slutty behavior for one thing. Secondly, among the ESFp's I've known and myself, they just have a very high need for a certain kind of stimulation, and low tolerance for the kind they don't need. We can benefit from a great deal of stimulations, but there are some things we just are not interested in (Ne for one thing). We are very aware of what we need/want, and if you are not fitting it then we are aware it won't work out ahead of time and just end it to avoid disasters.

Can you be more specific regarding what kind of stimulation you reject? Pondering? Self-reflection? Like those kinds of things? Is it more generally a resistance towards what is deemed not immediate enough?

Another thing is how the relationship starts and with what type. If it is a quick relationship, initiated out of lust and such, the bored factor is at its most likely to come up. This being due to SEE being impulsive when it comes to things like pleasure and a good time in general, and with me, I am able to over-look quite a few flaws when I've been in this sort of relationship.

If it is a relationship started out as a friendship, most likely that bond will never leave the SEE's mind, regardless. Not that this can't happen in the faster relationships, but the faster relationships are more likely to get others hurt.

This is quite a good point you make here.

And I think this is probably true of all relationships. A relationship based on a poor understanding of the other person isn't likely to be one that lasts. Rushing into a sexual involvement, in effect is "skipping steps" and can create a kind of false intimacy with the other person. You're physically intimate, but not emotionally. It's confusing and deceptive.

[drd252]

I'll just chime in (as I know I've done before) and uphold the "misconception" of SEE being slutty.

I only know two ESFps, one has been faithfully married to my uncle (INTp) for 30-some years, the other cheated on me after a couple months of very non-sexual courtship, then tried to break up with me without telling me she cheated on me.

It's hit or miss, I guess, but I'm inclined to regard the SEE as being slutty

[Jarno]

I know some SEE. Some of them indeed slutty, and others are the exact opposite, even one claiming sex isn't important to her.

[Blaze]

any type can act slutty, including the male variety.

but yeah what's your beef with Ne? too bad you have one since it's valuable. i totally see the benefit of Se for instance; theoretically i don't have anything against any function, since they're all valuable.

[Joy]

The SEE's I've known have been loyal people, sometimes too forgiving of those they care about. If you're quickly discarded, you didn't mean much to begin with.

[Khamelion]

Slutty was probably a bad word. I was mainly trying to bring up the issue that they are... SEEMINGLY wishy-washy? with people because they depend a lot on stimulation from them, and when they are not getting at a particular time they SEEM to wander off and ignore the person. What I'm saying, is that that person is not being ignored.

With me, I don't concider the occasional kiss while being single slutty. With me though, I come off flirty when I'm not flirting at all. When Im interested in a person, or a group of people, in any fasion, I act very friendly and aim to charm. When I'm at work I'm supposed to be FE FE FE FE, but I choose to ignore the managers nagging me to be that way, and keep with my charming friendliness. But this gets interpreted as flirty CONSTANTLY because my eyes are used a great deal, and sometimes I accidentally make bed-room eyes I guess.



All sorts can be slutty, yesum.




And with the Ne, I think it is just a case of my needing to be more educated on what it actually is. The main times I notice my indifference towards it is when my fiance is using it. (ENTp) I don't want to talk about it anymore until I understand it better, to avoid sounding a dumbass

[Khamelion]

I never mean't unfaithful or disloyal, or to imply they are cheaters.

[Khamelion]

The SEE's I've known have been loyal people, sometimes too forgiving of those they care about. If you're quickly discarded, you didn't mean much to begin with.

This can be true too. But if I've already spent time with the person and developed some form of friendship, and I just happen to not pay attention to them for a while, it doesn't mean they didn't mean anything to me.

[Joy]

The SEE's I've known have been loyal people, sometimes too forgiving of those they care about. If you're quickly discarded, you didn't mean much to begin with.

This can be true too. But if I've already spent time with the person and developed some form of friendship, and I just happen to not pay attention to them for a while, it doesn't mean they didn't mean anything to me.

That's not the same as being discarded though. I can see how some people would see it as such, but one of my favorite things about SEE's is that you can go years without talking to them and it doesn't change anything... if you were good friends before those years of not being in contact, you're still a good friend of theirs.

[Khamelion]

That's not the same as being discarded though. I can see how some people would see it as such,

that is my point

but one of my favorite things about SEE's is that you can go years without talking to them and it doesn't change anything... if you were good friends before those years of not being in contact, you're still a good friend of theirs.

I think this sums up my point for the entire thread. Some people see it as being discarded, but it isn't! Usually! :wink:

[Blaze]

i don't feel discarded by esfp's...but they usually have so much social stuff going on...i dunno. you like them a lot but then they can be kind of flaky. so i wouldn't take it personally and feel rejected or anything. however, having said that, as a consequence of this, i kind of keep them at am arm's length...i don't trust them completely. i expect them to flake, lol.

[Khamelion]

i don't feel discarded by esfp's...but they usually have so much social stuff going on...i dunno. you like them a lot but then they can be kind of flaky. so i wouldn't take it personally and feel rejected or anything. however, having said that, as a consequence of this, i kind of keep them at am arm's length...i don't trust them completely. i expect them to flake, lol.

sounds pretty super-egoish to me


im not intentionally flaky there is just so many people to talk to and things to do that i forget. and i procrastinate hardcore on responsible stuff, which sometimes getting in touch with people. this wouldn't be absolutely no problem for me if i actually lived where all my peoples be livin'. -_-

I hate having to make 10 phone calls a week just so people can think my love for them is validated. ( I have lots of people to keep in touch with)

[Suomea]

Female ESFps can make out with a lot of people when they are single. Any time they are out it seems like they are going after someone. A lot of them become homebodies for awhile though. It can be cyclical. I don't view them necessarily as slutty because I presume they stop a lot of guys once they feel they've caught them. I agree they can be really loyal friends/girlfriends as well.

[UDP]

ESEs can be pretty slutty, especially the 3w2 versions, or 2w3 versions.

[liveandletlive]

SEE seems to have a reputation for being sluts, for lack of a better word. It has been said elsewhere that they lose interest and just disregard people like trash when they are bored.

I call bullshit.


Nearly any Exxx can exhibit slutty behavior for one thing. Secondly, among the ESFp's I've known and myself, they just have a very high need for a certain kind of stimulation, and low tolerance for the kind they don't need. We can benefit from a great deal of stimulations, but there are some things we just are not interested in (Ne for one thing). We are very aware of what we need/want, and if you are not fitting it then we are aware it won't work out ahead of time and just end it to avoid disasters. A lot of people take this as, "You suck, I'm rejecting you, lalala next!" When we are actually protecting you. We don't think the relationship has changed in the least bit, minus the intimacy. If we were interested in you enough in the first place, took the time to get to know you and like you as a friend, that will never fade. However, lack of stimulation will cause it to dwindle a bit, but it is ALWAYS there. And we are waiting here with a flint, you bring the tinder :wink:


I'm not sure why I went on this semi-rant. It just seemed like a big misconception that needed to be pointed out.


Disclaimer: ESFp whore bitches exsist, just like INTj bitches, ISFp bitches, yadayadayada.

Another thing is how the relationship starts and with what type. If it is a quick relationship, initiated out of lust and such, the bored factor is at its most likely to come up. This being due to SEE being impulsive when it comes to things like pleasure and a good time in general, and with me, I am able to over-look quite a few flaws when I've been in this sort of relationship.

If it is a relationship started out as a friendship, most likely that bond will never leave the SEE's mind, regardless. Not that this can't happen in the faster relationships, but the faster relationships are more likely to get others hurt.

I would just like to point out how much this description also relates to INTp's. Duals are so cool.

[Blaze]

i don't feel discarded by esfp's...but they usually have so much social stuff going on...i dunno. you like them a lot but then they can be kind of flaky. so i wouldn't take it personally and feel rejected or anything. however, having said that, as a consequence of this, i kind of keep them at am arm's length...i don't trust them completely. i expect them to flake, lol.

sounds pretty super-egoish to me


im not intentionally flaky there is just so many people to talk to and things to do that i forget. and i procrastinate hardcore on responsible stuff, which sometimes getting in touch with people. this wouldn't be absolutely no problem for me if i actually lived where all my peoples be livin'. -_-

I hate having to make 10 phone calls a week just so people can think my love for them is validated. ( I have lots of people to keep in touch with)

ah but isn't that the price of all the relationships you choose to maintain? for myself, i can't put that much energy in. so i tend to have a few really good friends. but hey everybody is so frickin busy these days, you hardly end up getting to see anybody. well i guess it can work ok...not everybody needs a phone call everyday or anything. i'm saying esfp's make you feel like you gotta chase them, which i don't like to do, so i don't get together all that often with the ones i know. which is fine.

[reyn_til_runa]

I hate having to make 10 phone calls a week just so people can think my love for them is validated. ( I have lots of people to keep in touch with)

how important is it TO YOU that you call these people and validate your love for them? do you see this as working more for your benefit or theirs? if they do not need validation, would you still be compelled to call them so often? i'm trying to get at your driving motivation for calling people, perhaps because i generally have absolutely none unless there's important information to share, a problem to solve, a wrong to make right, some necessary clarification, etc.

[Ms. Kensington]

i always got the impression that ESFps are the ones that need 10 calls a day or see them a lot to feel like other's love is validated, not the other way around. I know this because this is what I get an earful of from the ESFps in my life

also agree on the kissing thing, and everyone has their own brand of sluttiness.

[Warlord]

But this gets interpreted as flirty CONSTANTLY because my eyes are used a great deal, and sometimes I accidentally make bed-room eyes I guess.

Really stupid question, but what is bedroom eyes exactly? I've heard the phrase obviously. Maybe I'm doing that all the time, and don't just know

Well I've noticed that, when I'm really tired and almost can't keep my eyelids open, so I try to force them open by raising my eyebrows, I have been weirdly getting more "attention". Maybe it's that then.

[Khamelion]

But this gets interpreted as flirty CONSTANTLY because my eyes are used a great deal, and sometimes I accidentally make bed-room eyes I guess.

Really stupid question, but what is bedroom eyes exactly? I've heard the phrase obviously. Maybe I'm doing that all the time, and don't just know

Well I've noticed that, when I'm really tired and almost can't keep my eyelids open, so I try to force them open by raising my eyebrows, I have been weirdly getting more "attention". Maybe it's that then.

Most people have their own brand of bedroom eyes, but with me usually it involves my eyes relaxing completely, a slight, momentary raise of the both eye brows and SLIGHT grin. This is just a normal movement for me when talking to someone I am charmed by, male or female. Someone of interest, even if not sexually. This is why I have problems

i always got the impression that ESFps are the ones that need 10 calls a day or see them a lot to feel like other's love is validated, not the other way around. I know this because this is what I get an earful of from the ESFps in my life

that sounds more like someone who needs Fe validation on a regular basis

ah but isn't that the price of all the relationships you choose to maintain? for myself, i can't put that much energy in. so i tend to have a few really good friends. but hey everybody is so frickin busy these days, you hardly end up getting to see anybody. well i guess it can work ok...not everybody needs a phone call everyday or anything. i'm saying esfp's make you feel like you gotta chase them, which i don't like to do, so i don't get together all that often with the ones i know. which is fine.

the price isn't always reasonable on both sides. the main people im refering too are my Beta relatives who value Fe to the extreme and have demanded it in family gathers since forever. i never minded as a youngster, because it mean't a constant nice environment for me to frolic in. but when im expected to be the same way i get frustrated.

i spend more time chasing, then getting others to chase me. possible it may just feel as though thats what they want, when in reality they just want to approach you when THEY feel like. sponatanious moods and ideas and what not. people randomly pop up in my head that i havnt seen in a while and i think, "oh shit! lets go do something!"

the way you deal with friends and such sounds a lot like my fiance

how important is it TO YOU that you call these people and validate your love for them? do you see this as working more for your benefit or theirs? if they do not need validation, would you still be compelled to call them so often? i'm trying to get at your driving motivation for calling people, perhaps because i generally have absolutely none unless there's important information to share, a problem to solve, a wrong to make right, some necessary clarification, etc.

It's mainly an issue of feeling obligated. Call us and validate or else. The or else, in the case of my family, includes no invites to family get-togethers or vacations. If it is coming from my ENFj grandmother, it shows itself in her trying to be forceable stern-faced with me, but then she usually starts pleading to me and getting all emotional which embarrasses the fuck out of me. Calm down woman! Why can't these people just know that I love them? That I HATE feeling obligated to do things. That I HATE having to remember all the "responsibilities" of having to call everyone on regular basis. I DON'T remember, and then this makes things even worse.

It is important that they know my feelings, but I don't think it is important to have to validate them over and over. The only person benefiting from that is them. I'm just annoyed. I would probably call them more if they didn't make me feel obligated.

Same applies to some of my friends, but I have some select few who are always on the same page as me and are very aware that my love for them does not fade just because of no communication for a while. 2 ISFj's, ENTj, and my ESTp dad is this way too. This is why I call him most

[Jarno]

I often encounter the statement: SEE are whores.
Which in my experience is far from true.

Yes they usually dress like whores (very extravagant / bling bling / attention seeking)
And they can seduce like whores, talk about sex etc.

But they are very picky about their boyfriends and who they sleep with.
And therefor I wouldn't call them whores.
Especially compared to other types.

What are your experiences.

[duality is cringe]

In my experience, SEE females have been sluts, not whores.

[Park]

Some of the hottest chicks on earth are SEE.

[Park]

Fi SEEs are my dualz.

Whoever dares to say SEEs are whores... has to answer to me.

[Lotus]

They're not whores, dumbasses.

[Angel von Himmel]

In my experience SEEs are quite sexual, and quite expressive. But then, I have been a flamming ESFp magnet before. And yeah, they arn't just going to bonk just anyone. However, if you see an ESFp girl looking strongly at some guy and not looking away you know who she wants. And trust me, the guy is going to get quite the experience when and if he takes the bait.

[Angel von Himmel]

I would pretty much categorize this as the ESFp males theme song ...

WTF

Yes, because every ESFp male in history loves that song.

With ESFps it is about substance, and lucrative distractions given to others in a showy fashion ... that is what the video demonstrates.

I also implied ESFP LOOKING STRONGLY not LOOKING STRONGLY ESFP ...

[tereg]

In my experience SEEs are quite sexual, and quite expressive. But then, I have been a flamming ESFp magnet before. And yeah, they arn't just going to bonk just anyone. However, if you see an ESFp girl looking strongly at some guy and not looking away you know who she wants. And trust me, the guy is going to get quite the experience when and if he takes the bait.

This is quite idiotic. You're correlating Socionics types with how a girl LOOKS at someone? Why do people keep correlating functions, types, socionics, with sexuality? If there was any correlation it would be infinately more subtle than your perverted musings on the ESFps you are a "flaming magnet" to. I think "lemming magnet" would be a better choice of words.

I would pretty much categorize this as the ESFp males theme song ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V7DjWIQRxQ

WTF

Yes, because every ESFp male in history loves that song.

[Angel von Himmel]

WTF

Yes, because every ESFp male in history loves that song.

With ESFps it is about substance, and lucrative distractions given to others in a showy fashion ... that is what the video demonstrates.

I also implied ESFP LOOKING STRONGLY not LOOKING STRONGLY ESFP ...

[tereg]

However, if you see an ESFp girl looking strongly at some guy and not looking away you know who she wants.

I also implied ESFP LOOKING STRONGLY not LOOKING STRONGLY ESFP ...

Uh, yes?

I don't see the misinterpretation.

[Angel von Himmel]

Uh, yes?

I don't see the misinterpretation.

That was towards dolphin's comment ...

[tereg]

That was towards dolphin's comment ...

That was what I was referring to.

[Angel von Himmel]

That was what I was referring to.

And I also can not find that quote from Dolphin anywhere else in the forum ... that wasn't something you are saying and attributing to Dolphin?

[Lotus]

I often encounter the statement: SEE are whores.
Which in my experience is far from true.

Yes they usually dress like whores (very extravagant / bling bling / attention seeking)
And they can seduce like whores, talk about sex etc.

But they are very picky about their boyfriends and who they sleep with.
And therefor I wouldn't call them whores.
Especially compared to other types.

What are your experiences.

Wow. You deigned to say we're not whores! My knight in shining armor. But OH don't forget the bling bling! hehe soooo attention seeking! And don't forget the seduction, we try to seduce anything that's not tied down.........but we're so picky omg we're such a whorish mystery 11!11!11!111

The Fi subtypes probably try to honor their committments, but many of them are also flippant and inconsistant in their behavior. I suppose if the Te-ILI is sufficiently stabilizing and keeps everything else on an even keel, then the dual might too keep stabilized. It's something some Delta irrationals might also relate to.

I don't think any of this is related to Gamma per se, but it does appear more problematic around the Se/Ni axis -- which in part is why Se/Ni subtypes need Ni more than any rational function.

Oh my savior.........I needed you to tell me that Fi is about keeping committments or at least having good intentions......but Se/Ni people are just BOUND to be flippant, it says so in Wikipedia. Te is so STABILIZING, I mean CMON, don't you see?!???!? external dynamics of objects = stabilizing, it's like a 1 + 1 = 2 correlation.

But eeehh, I KNOW you don't think any of this is related to Gamma, you just wanted to say that you think this is related to Fi/Te and Ni/Se, the quadra functions of gammas, and also how ESFps tend to be fickle....but STILL you're not really saying anything about gamma you just wanted to generously give you some of your wisdom

The mixed subtype will dress distractingly, but tastefully (this is an expression of Alpha's +Si as a Personal Knowledge function, actually.)

Si is not dressing distractingly or tastefully, dumbass. Si is external dynamics of fields. It is a cognitive process for which behaviors manifest differently according to each individual. It is NOT how an individual dresses, but the way they think.

They attract attention to expand their social network, in part with practical gains in mind (although as SF Socials, they probably enjoy the process itself, too.)

How the HELL do you assume to figure out the motives of SFs? You are extraordinarily stupid. SFs are not "socials", dumbass. The category "SF" is useless in itself. "S" is not "sensing" and "F" is not "feeling". This is Socionics, not "GUESS THE MBTI BEHAVIORAL TRAIT". ESFp and ISFp are both SFs, letter wise. So the fuck what? One uses the functions Se, Fi, Ni, and Te. The other uses the functions Si, Fe, Ne, and Ti. Si and Se are not "sensing" functions. One is external field dynamics and one is external object statics. So the FUCK what. ANYONE can be sensing. Did you read the recent thread, "How sensual are you" or whatever it was? It varied extremely between types and people. To call someone a "sensing feeler" is to go back to the rudimentary idiocy of MBTI superficialistics.

The mixed subtype value legitimate and skilled individuals to this end. (So I'm not saying they will "sleep their way to the top" -- that's not really Fi.) Gamma +Se inherently attracts attention in this way.

"legitimate" and "skilled" are not objective traits. Can you really make such a general statement about people? "legitimate" in what? "skilled" in what? Everything under the sun. Even the so called "jacks of all trades" may not be honed in a specific arena. But the people who ARE, read SPECIFIC. Plus, interests and observable behaviors do not simply fall under the category of functions. For Gods sake Gamma SFs are not "social climbers" inherantly, and neither is any other type.

With both of the other subtypes, it varies -- for different reasons. The Fi subtype may dress more creatively (stronger intuition+ethics.) But they are also more unsure of their appearance, so they may dress more modestly at times, too. Delta values, which the Fi subtype begins to incorporate, are increasingly sensitive to displays of power (practical or otherwise.)

Fi is NOT ethics, and Fi subtypes do not have stronger "intuition". "ethics" and "intuition" are NOT functions. Functions are a way of thinking that don't necesarily encompass the very general terms of "ethics" and "intuition". Those words are by their very nature judgements on the weight or quality of the information, whether something is "ethical" or "intuitive" with one person may not be so for the other, so your categorization is useless. "Displays of power"..bullshit.

Beta values create social chameleons, so the Se subtype might occasionally dress modestly, too. Being around the Se/Ni axis, the Se subtype is impulsive and has difficulty staying on just one Beta team and within Gamma bounds of trust and credibility, so they are constantly using Se (both forms -- with and without Fi) to "conquer" somewhere new.

Se isn't "conquering". Betas are not inherantly "social chameleons". Social chameleons are social chameleons, regardless of type. Se subtype has nothing to do with where or not one would be inclined to dress modestly. Dressing modestly is independent of functions. Gammas don't necessarily stand for "trust" and "credibility", PEOPLE who value trust and credibility do. People are not more sensual or slutty or "whorish" or "creative dressers" or "ethical" or "intuitive" or "legitimate" according to functions, because none of those are objective universal standards. Or personal choices driven by functions.

[Lotus]

With ESFps it is about substance, and lucrative distractions given to others in a showy fashion ... that is what the video demonstrates.

You figured that out, eh? Being a ESFp magnet and all? All you are demonstrating right now is a penchant for promoting baseless degrading stereotypes to channel your angst at not getting laid. Try again.

I also implied ESFP LOOKING STRONGLY not LOOKING STRONGLY ESFP ...

I also said (straight out) RMCNEW IS A LEMMING MAGNET not A LEMMING MAGNET IS RMCNEW ...

I wouldn't take things as far as McNew has in that direction. But besides theoretical arguments, I have posted numerous descriptions in the past correlating Sociotype with physiological functioning, including sexual relations. ( -- I even would use this as evidence that type "exists", and with some significant degree of permanence. A physiological basis which functions organize around sounds much more realistic than some idealized notion of neatly-constructed functions in the chaotic brain -- see discussion of neural nets.) What gives credence to dolphin's assertion of so much subtly?

What gives credence to your assertions of gamma SFs being "social climbers"?

It's subtle because even a physiological basis around which functions are organized doesn't imply any of your meaningless "displays of power" or conquering people by sexuality. That's not type or function related. Btw, when did I say there were neatly constructed functions in the brain? I didn't. Don't project your stupid interpretations, please. Functions figure into psychological processes hugely, but the same function in a psychological process can lead to multiple behaviors and interpretations. Getting information a certain way doesn't imply what you will do with it.

[Angel von Himmel]

How is dolphin able to comment in this thread and why is dolphin even being quoted ... ?

[Angel von Himmel]

Nevermind ... I thought I smelled some downwind cow farm smell coming from the socionix direction.

http://forum.socionix.com/index.php?...20&#entry13897