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  1. #1

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    Default Please translate this:

    if someone could translate this, i would be incredibly appriciative and would like to incorporate it into my the16types site to make huge computer generated psychoanalysis profiles for everyone to compare to the "type descriptions" to see how close they really are.

    http://socionics.org/gazeta/2004-9/selyutin.html

  2. #2
    Creepy-vees

    Default studying russian useful?

    I'm considering learning russian as a side-study - does anyone know if that could be useful concerning socionics in a manageable timeframe? how good a russian-speaker does one have to be in order to read/understand original texts on soc? I've heard they use many analogies that only an (ex-) swjet would understand..... any thoughts?

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    it was translated, look at the new "Socionics Gazetta" forum under the main General Category(I moved it there)

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    Very cool and thanks :wink:
    I have done the same as you are doing with translating.
    This dictionary sometimes helps too.
    http://www.rambler.ru/dict/ruen/

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    Default Edition 10 of 2004 17.06.2004 - Machine translated

    Sotsionicheskaya newspaper: № 10 (37), 17.06.2004
    Covmestny1 the project of the sites
    "sotsionicheskiye acquaintances" and"sotsionika in the languages of peace"

    On the passage to the united notation
    sotsionicheskikh aspects and the functions

    The project of the rotation of participants in the practical-scientific conference"psychology of administration and the applied typology of personality", Saint Petersburg, on 19 June, 2004, you also can express your opinion about this project, after writing letter to the editorial staff Of "sotsionicheskoy newspaper".

    20 years ago, at the dawn of sotsioniki, work To a.Augustinavichyute and other authors were multiplied on the typewriters, only possible type of which was cyrillic alphabet. It was necessary to enter even Latin letters in the text by hand. From this point of view the symbols, used by it for the designation of sotsionicheskikh functions - square, circle, angle and the triangle (author of symbols he was its friend Of a.Varanavichyus) - were not a bit not more inconvenient, than any other "non-Russian" symbols, for example, Latin, for which on the machine nevertheless there were necessary keys not.

    In the years of reconstruction in sotsionicheskikh works finally appeared the chance to the publication. In contrast to the typewriters, the printing house they had available the collections of different it was type, including Latin. Specifically, under these conditions V.Gulenko in order to facilitate their publication, it proposed its system of the letter designation of functions (on the first letters of Latin terms): R, E, T, I and so forth although signs along the system A.Augustinavichyute also could be placed into the printed text - for example, in the form of figures - but already with their use in the text itself in printing house appeared the problem. Yes even the use of illustrations in the text in those years was the complex technological process, which increased the cost of publication and which slowed down its appearance.

    The system of letter designations Gulenko considerably facilitated the publication of the first sotsionicheskikh works. At the same time, its inconvenience consisted in the fact that in contrast to the system Augustinavichyute, in it was not outlined the connection between the "raznovertnymi" functions, for example, by "structural" ("white") and "processual" ("black") logic.

    Together with the transfer into the Russian language of American literature on tipovedeniyu Myers- Briggs (TMB) appeared one additional inconvenience of system Gulenko, noted by it by itself: the letter designations, utilized by Americans for the binary it is indicative on Young's basis, partially they coincided with the system Gulenko; however, they had completely different content: T - "thinking" (logic) in TMB, the "intuition of time" (introvertnaya) in Gulenko; S - "sensorika" in TMB, "sensorika of sensations" (introvertnaya) in Gulenko; I - "intro-version" in TMB, the "intuition of possibilities" (ekstravertnaya) in Gulenko; and so on.

    At the same time, because of the swift computerization, first left the use typewriters, and then ceased to be urgent and "typographical problem". It became possible not only to combine in one and the same text diverse types and symbolic collections, but also to very to create new types.

    In 1995. The international institute of sotsioniki (MIS) proposed type Socionic.ttf for the sotsionicheskikh symbols. Today this type can be considered standard de facto, since almost all authors of publications in the periodicals of institute use it. Augustinavichyute based on the symbols, type at the same time return the tribute of respect to contribution Gulenko, since for the introduction of the symbols of functions the keys, which correspond to letter designations along its system, are used: R for , E for , and so forth type was placed for the free use by the authors on the site MIS: www.socionics.ibc.com.ua

    Thus, at present sotsioniki in parallel use two notations of sotsionicheskikh functions, although larger reputation enjoys nevertheless the symbolism To augustinavichyute. From other side, a number of sotsionikov uses in its works, American designations along the system TMB both in parallel with the the sotsionicheskimi and as their substitute. This unavoidably leads to the confusion. On the irony of fate, the greatest confusion (obviously, through the fault of printing house) occurred with the publication of the book, one of divisions of which Gulenko exactly dedicated to the differences between the the sotsionikoy and TMB, including in the symbolism [Gulenko EXPLOSIVE, Tyshchenko V.P., Young in the school, 1997] - although were originally assumed that the American symbols will be designated by capital letters, and sotsionicheskiye (along his system) - small, the rule proposed quite often was disrupted in reality, and to the reader it was necessary for very to surmise about the sense of Latin letters.

    Nevertheless, until now, remains urgent the proposal expressed in this book. V.Gulenko proposed to agree about the united notation - similarly how made chemists at the congress in Karlsruhe in 1960.

    We propose to support its proposal and to turn to participants in the nearest sotsionicheskoy conference into Kiev (September 2004 g.) to support our proposals:

    1. To count type Socionic.ttf, created SHITYU MIS, standard type for mapping of sotsionicheskikh symbols in the scientific publications.
    2. To turn from use to the sotsionicheskoy literature of literal system Gulenko, after preserving it, however, as keyboard correspondences for the sotsionicheskikh symbols in type Socionic.ttf.
    3. As before, this type must be accessible for the free load all desiring from the site MIS and from other sotsionicheskikh sites. However, with its use in the publications of others, than in the publications MIS, it is necessary to give reference to the use in it of this type (as it is provided in the similar cases by international law).
    4. A question about the use of this type on the Internet- pages to leave opened, since the present disagreement of international symbolic collections does not make it possible to guarantee the adequate mapping of symbols in all cases. But if type nevertheless is used in the Internet- publication, then in the first lines of this publication must be contained proposal about load and installation of type Socionic.ttf for the subsequent survey of article.

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    Default Edition 10 of 2004 17.06.2004 Machine translated

    Sotsionicheskaya newspaper: № 10 (37), 17.06.2004
    Covmestny1 the project of the sites
    "sotsionicheskiye acquaintances" and"sotsionika in the languages of peace"

    Notes according to the article YU.V. Of selyutina
    the "algorithm of information metabolism"




    Author: Vetches THEY ARE OREKHOV
    Author, who is characterized by nonstandard approach to the the sotsionicheskim to problems, and is also persistently hiding its personality.
    Sotsionicheskiy type: Critic (Balzac).
    El. the address: ekaburg@mail.ru

    Yuri viktorovich in his article proposes the method of the calculation of the additional parameter of Tim - the distance of aspect. As a result a quantity of aspects grows with the eighth in the model "A" to 16- TI (alas, to me, IMKHO and 8 - this too much). And this came out, on its own words, "it is beautiful" and "it is harmonious". It is unimportant that I precisely call beauty and accordion 4, but that idea, which I here reveal, commands me: in each Tim is its beauty its understanding of accordion. This I explain for those, who divide the Tim into the "clever" and "the beautiful" and think that samokharakteristika makes it possible to carry man to those, etc.

    One of the charms of this approach in the opinion SE - this is the explanation of subtypes and masks.

    Base function SE is called active will, creative - by authority, TNS - phobia, role - by neurosis. Remaining aspects are reduced to the same four components. In this case the pairs of the corresponding antagonistic aspects form with the social contacts something like the swings - one component of pair causes another within the framework of compensating mechanism.

    Further SE uses the introduced terminology for describing the social behavior of individual. It is well stated. The difference between the base and the creative, between 3- it and the the ya-oy by functions it is very appeared.

    Concerning the problem of personal increase, SE does not recommend to attempt to make weak force function, but, IMKHO, it advises to use the extra-Timpossibilities: physical development, mental development, caddishness... Peace without the people, in his opinion, is not terrible, the purpose of development - this opposition to other people so I understood.

    4 it already noted that it was pleased to me that Maxim uses the very broad band of the concepts, otnosimykh to the super-values - this he speaks, that TIM does not completely prevent the development of ideas - there would be desire. But here is the expansion of the "atoms" of sotsiona in the form of podtimov, masks, subaspects, to the adherents of which it relates BY SE, to me it seems unsuccessful. I assume that the calculation of extra-Timspecial features is more fruitful. First of all this concerns two things - influence on the situation of the contact of medium, the secondly - extra-Tim"force" of individual.

    Influence and that, etc. acknowledges, but it is not included in the structure of interaction, remaining in the error. Visualize that the result for an example of mathematical calculation depends on several components. Two composed are taken with the high accuracy - for example to 8 signs - 1,0456778 and 2, 5738273 (so proceeds the matter upon consideration of subtypes and that when the subtypes are determined very accurately), and third term is taken with one sign after comma, for example 0,4. Do not know as who, but me in the school they taught that the answer will come out with the accuracy less than one sign after comma! For etikov: I consider that it is necessary to increase a quantity of the parameters considered, but not to increase their discretion (doubtful and very doubtful discretion, takeing into account the difficulties of typing).

    What it is possible to make apropos of medium? Well, without leading the matter to the absurdity (typing the room of contact), it is possible to divide media into four groups: logical, ethical, sensory and intuitive. Restaurant - sensory medium, and the division of bookkeeping - logical. Then the agreement of medium with the base function it will be possible to characterize as "makeup" (strengthening), with the creative - as "stimulus" (to the search for activity?), with TNS - as irritation, with the role - as strengthening by role, i.e., the individual with the larger probability will act in this situation on the role.

    The force of participants in the contact also with the nonformal commentaries is considered, but they did not introduce directly into the diagram of contact. But drawing a line communications between the aspects, for example, of model "A" we can directly thicken these lines from the base and creative functions of stronger individual. Interaction with the medium also can consider force. If the force of individual exceeds the force of medium, then individual will tie his base to medium. With the equality he will be in soglasii/konflikte. With the weakness he will depart to role and other functions, being adjusted slightly under the medium. But according to the existing now descriptions it is generally incomprehensible, why man does descend from his base?

    Thus, I consider that the introduction of the signs of the distance of aspects does not solve the problems of description and prediction of social interactions.

    By extremely interesting me seemed the terminology introduced TO SE. Especially in the comparison with its own thymoma SE - Maxim. Will (creative volitional sensorika), authority (base structural logic), phobia (intuition of possibilities), neurosis (suggestive ethics of emotions).

    You will turn also to the description of phobia.

    Phobia is the finest filter of the shielding mechanism of Tim. Any information is filtered in it to the object of the likely danger, any discomfort, which can arise into the following instant.

    The energy content of phobia on the embodiment of its aspects in the impulse productive action is negligible, but at the same time its energy content in the recognition of the information, capable of inflicting loss on these aspects, the highest. The smallest details it is not slipped through this filter, raising them as the chief concern of further protective actions.

    You do learn? This approximately that which is assigned to Balzacs, or more precisely, their BASE functions - intuition of time, also entering the group of phobias on Selyutinu. Not truth whether, does appear logical the assumption that is here described not TNS, namely very intuition of time, which - in Maximov - in TNS? Together with the previously enumerated terminology this it suggests, that respected SE described not sotsion, but BY TIM Maxim. That during any distribution is not descended the value of description. Again and again I remind one that for the completeness any description, including description of sotsiona must be hexadecimal - comprised from the person of all of the Tim.

    This description reveals also new faces in SE itself. In the description there is no epatazha whatever, then there is certain openness and vulnerability, which indicates courage - everyone is ready to discuss that which considers it its personal weakness. It becomes understandable that demonstrative bezapellyatsioznost' and "ritual caddishness" for SE - these are the methods to cover its personal ethical neurosis. But present Hugo with his logical neurosis: -))

    On the whole, to an indirect question of editorial staff, one ought to have published this material, 4 it would answer: YES! Material is interesting and by itself. And it directs at any interesting ideas by very fact of publication. Although 4 and he did not become the supporter of the declared concept. Here.

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    I've got to get PC based dictionary.
    Do you know of any that are good?
    Or anything else?

    Does this sound right?

    * (let us take the dual of Don Quixote who is Dumas. Don Quixote’s 5th and 6th aspects of reality are Dumas’s 1st and 2nd, which Don Quixote cannot produce for himself, and Dumas has this in just the right amounts.
    The 5th and 6th aspects of reality are accepting functions as you tend to accept what ever comes in this way. And with your Dual these are the 1st and 2nd aspects and they do this stuff most of the time.
    And Don Quixote’s 3rd and 4th aspects of reality, which Don knows he is bad at and has difficulty with, Dumas does automatically without really thinking a whole lot about it. And of coarse visa versa.)
    **(aspects of reality, like the 1st position in the model. Or for instance, the 5th aspect in Don is the 1st aspect in Dumas.)

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    hmm...I haven't been slacking, really. It's complex to make and design database queries to pass a type name "INTJ" into a function and have it spit out a full psychoanalysis and what not. Especially efficiently. I have this so far:

    http://www.the16types.info/beta1.php

    It's empty for the moment, but imagine - and + being in the base function, etc etc etc for the rest of the functions. Pages and pages of computer generated description of a type based on the article I asked to be translated. Then we can see if this theory is better than the standard 8 model A of socionics. From what I've seen it explains alot more...

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    Dmitri Lytov's Avatar
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    In fact, the author's name is Vik Orekhovsky (it was funny that the machine tried to translate his name ).

    So sorry that machine completely lost the irony of this article in translation.
    www.socioniko.net is no longer my site.

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