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  • E

    2 6.06%
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    6 18.18%
  • S

    3 9.09%
  • N

    5 15.15%
  • F

    5 15.15%
  • T

    4 12.12%
  • J

    3 9.09%
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  1. #1

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    Default -

    -
    Last edited by Dee; 02-26-2009 at 03:19 AM.

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    Doubtful.
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    delta NF perhaps?

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    Tyler Lee Van Burkleo (born October 7, 1963 in Oakland, California) is the current hitting coach for the Oakland Athletics and a former first baseman in Major League Baseball. He played for two different major league teams in his career: the California Angels (1993) and Colorado Rockies (1994). He also played two teams in Japan the Seibu Lions and Hiroshima Toyo Carp.

    At the plate he was 5-for-38, a .132 batting average. His one home run was hit on August 16, 1993 against Detroit Tigers right-hander Bill Gullickson. In the field, he handled 118 chances without an error for a fielding percentage of 1.000.

    Van Burkleo played the last of his 14 Major League Baseball games on July 30, 1994.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    delta NF perhaps?
    Either that or ISFp.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    hey dee! again that third pic? that's not Lucas. boy you need glasses.
    IEI - the nasty kind...

  7. #7
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    INFj-Ne.

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    Rick has typed Spielberg as ENTp and Lucas as ISFp if I recall it right. They apparently have a very good friendship or something.

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    He seems to have a much greater fascination (and skill) with the technical aspects of film-making than with story-telling. He also get defensive when the dramatic elements of his movies are criticized. He just has a lot of trouble directing movies that don't feel oddly robotic where they should feel emotional.

    For example, the final battle in Episode III between Obi-Wan and Anakin. You could tell that a lot of work went into the scenery and sound-effects, which are always spectacular in GL's movies. But all of this technical prowess did nothing to help a fight that amounted to no more than big brother Obi-Wan giving his bratty little brother Anakin a paddling for throwing a temper tantrum.

    Lucas totally fails at instilling even the slightest emotional complexity into his characters, and this is because, imo, his role function only sees in terms of what should happen, or what is proper. He thinks, "Well, it is normal for someone to become desperate to save a loved one, so as long as Padme becomes ill and Anakin responds with angst and rage it is believable." He fails to see all the delicate nuances that appear when a person is in pain, or when a good person rationalizes a bad action. To him it's black and white, and secondary to the visuals and sound effects (and he defends himself by saying that these are children's films, as if to say kids need really nice special effects but are morons and don't need believable story-telling). The only actor who managed a decent performance despite Lucas's pathetic directing was Ian McDiarmid.

    INTj, IMO. I'm just conjecturing, so I'm not really sure, but it seems to fit. I don't mean to say that INTjs can't tell good stories, but that Lucas's particular failings are the result of an unskilled INTj story-teller.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    He seems to have a much greater fascination (and skill) with the technical aspects of film-making than with story-telling. He also get defensive when the dramatic elements of his movies are criticized. He just has a lot of trouble directing movies that don't feel oddly robotic where they should feel emotional.

    For example, the final battle in Episode III between Obi-Wan and Anakin. You could tell that a lot of work went into the scenery and sound-effects, which are always spectacular in GL's movies. But all of this technical prowess did nothing to help a fight that amounted to no more than big brother Obi-Wan giving his bratty little brother Anakin a paddling for throwing a temper tantrum.

    Lucas totally fails at instilling even the slightest emotional complexity into his characters, and this is because, imo, his role function only sees in terms of what should happen, or what is proper. He thinks, "Well, it is normal for someone to become desperate to save a loved one, so as long as Padme becomes ill and Anakin responds with angst and rage it is believable." He fails to see all the delicate nuances that appear when a person is in pain, or when a good person rationalizes a bad action. To him it's black and white, and secondary to the visuals and sound effects (and he defends himself by saying that these are children's films, as if to say kids need really nice special effects but are morons and don't need believable story-telling). The only actor who managed a decent performance despite Lucas's pathetic directing was Ian McDiarmid.

    INTj, IMO. I'm just conjecturing, so I'm not really sure, but it seems to fit. I don't mean to say that INTjs can't tell good stories, but that Lucas's particular failings are the result of an unskilled INTj story-teller.
    Which is why George Lucas mockingly called himself the "master of wooden dialogue" when he accepted his Lifetime Achievement Award. Ganin also typed Lucas as an INTj. The problem is that he should really not be a director, or if he is, he should just be a sub-director or an on-set consultant. For example, if you were to have Steven Spielberg direct a George Lucas movie, you get Indiana Jones.
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    Yeah, he's an editing consultant (or something to that effect) for Indiana Jones 4, but thankfully Spielberg has final cut.

    Lucas is very picky about camera angles, whereas Spielberg prefers to use wide shots with a lot going on at once, which gives you a "wild" picture where you have to choose what to look at, a technique that I believe is far more suited to an adventure-themed Indiana Jones movie.

    Anyways.

  12. #12
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    Just a question... wouldn't all of the inconsistencies between SW 4-6 and SW 1-3 get on an INTj's nerves??? Explain forthwith.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dee
    does he VI as an INTj though?
    I'll be honest. I think it's hard to VI him accurately because he's overweight.

    In his earlier pictures he could be INTj, but in his current photos it's pretty difficult to say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    Just a question... wouldn't all of the inconsistencies between SW 4-6 and SW 1-3 get on an INTj's nerves??? Explain forthwith.
    They DO get on his nerves. He has frequently expressed discontent with the transition between the two trilogies and a desire to homogenize them somehow, possibly by raping them with CGI to make them feel more cohesive.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    Just a question... wouldn't all of the inconsistencies between SW 4-6 and SW 1-3 get on an INTj's nerves??? Explain forthwith.
    They do get on his nerves and art of the reason for the inconsistencies is the gap of time between the making of IV-VI and I-III in which the story essentially changed over time. And he is definitely a negativist, as he essentially looks at the existing Star Wars as "what could be improved" or "what is left undone" in the story.
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    Well I mean like some of the story inconsistencies....

    A few examples...

    1. In SW VI, when Luke asked Leia if she remembered her mother, she said barely, that her mother died when she was very young, was beautiful, yet sad... But then in SW III, Padme dies immediately after giving birth. How would Leia then have any memory of her mother? And if she did, shouldn't Luke also? (Luke said in SW VI that he had no memory of his mother. He never knew her.) To me what was in SW VI implied that Leia had lived with her mother for a while (possibly on Alderan) and then her mother died when she was a small child (like maybe 3 or 4 years of age). Luke had no memory of her because he was carted off to Tatooine right after he was born.

    2. In SW IV, Obi Wan said that Darth Vader hunted down and killed the Jedis. I thought this referred to hunting down and killing actual adult Jedis, not killing a bunch of children (as Anakin did in SW III while the clone army killed all the actual Jedis). Also it would have been a better explanation for Vader "being more machine than man" if he had gradually lost his body parts (limbs, etc.) while hunting down and killing the entire Jedi order. Also the way, Obi Wan described it, Anakin's "betrayal" seemed a lot more subtle and insidious than it appeared in SW II-III.

    3. In SW IV, Obi Wan said he never remembered having owned a droid before. How could he not remember R2 after having spent so much time with him in SW I-III?

    4. Yoda seemed like somewhat a pacifist in SW V and VI, not likely to do any of the silly fighting he did in SW II and III. He did want Luke to kill Vader, but he didn't really have the body or manner for being a warrior himself. Also he was fond of saying things like "wars do not make one great" after scoffing at the very idea of a "warrior."

    5. Darth Vader's character and Anakin's character seem inconsistent. Darth Vader is a controlled villian. He has a logical reason behind what he does. He is not prone to emotional fits of psychopathy. He believes in the greater order. He believes that the ends justify the means. He is trying to bring order to the galaxy, not because he wants to bring pain and suffering everywhere, because he is interested in a controlled sort of "peace." Although there's a hint to this in Star Wars II when Anakin says to Padme that everyone should be "made to agree," other than this Anakin is an emotional trainwreck. He is passionate (unlike Vader), emotional (unlike Vader), psychotic (in a different way than Vader), and uncontrolled (again unlike Vader). They do not really appear to be the same person at all. Edit: what I mean is that Anakin loses it because he feels too much not too little and can't handle it... Vader seemed likely to have lost it because he didn't feel enough and lacked the compassion to see how what he was doing was hurting people.

    6. I think it's ridiculous that Anakin built C3PO... absolutely lame. And that he also spent some time with R2. That forged connection is totally unnecessary. Funny how Vader doesn't seem to notice 3PO at all in SW VI-VI. I would think that since he built the droid, he might show some sign of recognition.

    Anyway, you get the idea... wouldn't some of this stuff (I know it's my own subjective take) bug an INTj? Inconsistencies in characters and the storyline?

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    About Vader, I think Darth Vader is ISFj, but Anakin seems more ENTp than anything. If that character was consistent it would have been much more dramatic when he turned to the dark side. As it stands, it feels like Anakin simply went away and was replaced by a totally different character.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    About Vader, I think Darth Vader is ISFj, but Anakin seems more ENTp than anything. If that character was consistent it would have been much more dramatic when he turned to the dark side. As it stands, it feels like Anakin simply went away and was replaced by a totally different character.
    That's interesting... I had though Vader was ISTJ (before discovering Socionics)... but now I don't know... I can't see Vader belonging to an Fe valuing quadra. Anakin, on the other hand... hmm... I had thought Anakin was ISTP (again before discovering Socionics)... I haven't thought about it since... I do agree that Vader would be Gamma.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    Well I mean like some of the story inconsistencies....

    A few examples...

    1. In SW VI, when Luke asked Leia if she remembered her mother, she said barely, that her mother died when she was very young, was beautiful, yet sad... But then in SW III, Padme dies immediately after giving birth. How would Leia then have any memory of her mother? And if she did, shouldn't Luke also? (Luke said in SW VI that he had no memory of his mother. He never knew her.) To me what was in SW VI implied that Leia had lived with her mother for a while (possibly on Alderan) and then her mother died when she was a small child (like maybe 3 or 4 years of age). Luke had no memory of her because he was carted off to Tatooine right after he was born.
    Yeah this was a gripe of mine as well especially since Padme apparently died of a "broken heart." I guess that Lucas wanted the movies to be more self-contained and he was faced with the dilemma of how Anakin Skywalker in a black suit was pushed over the edge into becoming Darth Vader, which would presumably be Padme's death, though really the Emperor could have easily made-up her death.

    2. In SW IV, Obi Wan said that Darth Vader hunted down and killed the Jedis. I thought this referred to hunting down and killing actual adult Jedis, not killing a bunch of children (as Anakin did in SW III while the clone army killed all the actual Jedis). Also it would have been a better explanation for Vader "being more machine than man" if he had gradually lost his body parts (limbs, etc.) while hunting down and killing the entire Jedi order. Also the way, Obi Wan described it, Anakin's "betrayal" seemed a lot more subtle and insidious than it appeared in SW II-III.
    Not all the Jedis were killed during that operation, and so I think that there is a sizable chunk of time spent between III and IV where Vader hunts down the old Jedi order. And indeed Vader may have lost more parts; we just do not know.

    3. In SW IV, Obi Wan said he never remembered having owned a droid before. How could he not remember R2 after having spent so much time with him in SW I-III?
    Did he own R2? And did Obi Wan ever hear R2's name to be able to put a name with the bucket of bolts? No really, I cannot remember these details.

    4. Yoda seemed like somewhat a pacifist in SW V and VI, not likely to do any of the silly fighting he did in SW II and III. He did want Luke to kill Vader, but he didn't really have the body or manner for being a warrior himself. Also he was fond of saying things like "wars do not make one great" after scoffing at the very idea of a "warrior."
    I'm not really seeing much of a contradiction here.

    5. Darth Vader's character and Anakin's character seem inconsistent. Darth Vader is a controlled villian. He has a logical reason behind what he does. He is not prone to emotional fits of psychopathy. He believes in the greater order. He believes that the ends justify the means. He is trying to bring order to the galaxy, not because he wants to bring pain and suffering everywhere, because he is interested in a controlled sort of "peace." Although there's a hint to this in Star Wars II when Anakin says to Padme that everyone should be "made to agree," other than this Anakin is an emotional trainwreck. He is passionate (unlike Vader), emotional (unlike Vader), psychotic (in a different way that Vader), and uncontrolled (again unlike Vader). They do not really appear to be the same person at all.
    And according to Yoda, all this passion-fruit leads to the dark side.

    6. I think it's ridiculous that Anakin built C3PO... absolutely lame. And that he also spent some time with R2. That forged connection is totally unnecessary. Funny how Vader doesn't seem to notice 3PO at all in SW VI-VI. I would think that since he built the droid, he might show some sign of recognition.
    When does Vadar run into and see C3PO and R2? And perhaps he had other things on his mind? It is not as if we can see his face or get into his thoughts.
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    Re: Logos...

    So are you saying you don't see all that many inconsistencies in the plot (between I-III and IV-VI) and the characters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    And according to Yoda, all this passion-fruit leads to the dark side.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    Re: Logos...

    So are you saying you don't see all that many inconsistencies in the plot (between I-III and IV-VI) and the characters?
    The plot yes and there are inconsistencies in the characters but not quite to the same extent that you see them, especially when there is a great deal which we are not shown in the six movies. And with Yoda, he said a Jedi does not crave to be a great warrior and that war does not make one great. Being capable of fighting does not by any means necessitate that Yoda himself enjoys combat. He does not view himself as a warrior or a glorifier of war, and that much is consistent.
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    Okay.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    About Vader, I think Darth Vader is ISFj, but Anakin seems more ENTp than anything. If that character was consistent it would have been much more dramatic when he turned to the dark side. As it stands, it feels like Anakin simply went away and was replaced by a totally different character.
    Yes. I think it shows Lucas's inability to write it properly. In SWII, especially during Luke's training by Yoda, it is repeatedly implied that "turning to the dark side" is a temptation every Jedi struggles with, since the dark side is "easier, faster, more seductive", and that will happen if they use the force aggressively - that is also implied during Luke's fight with Vader in SWVI.

    So, in order to be effective, the whole drama of Anakin-turning-into-Vader had to be shown as a real tragedy, with Anakin built up in SWI-III as a truly admirable hero, like Obi-Wan, who turns to the dark side while trying to do good. That would be something like a Greek tragedy.

    And what did Lucas do? He wrote Anakin as a darkly petulant youth who's essentially complaining "I don't get any respect around here" and who very quickly moves from slaughtering sand people to doing the same to children. He wants to have his cake and bake it: he wants to marry and to remain a Jedi, so he marries in secret and lies to his order.

    Frankly, is there a lot to admire in Anakin's character? He didn't need much of a push to be "seduced" by the dark side.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    Tyler Lee Van Burkleo (born October 7, 1963 in Oakland, California) is the current hitting coach for the Oakland Athletics and a former first baseman in Major League Baseball. He played for two different major league teams in his career: the California Angels (1993) and Colorado Rockies (1994). He also played two teams in Japan the Seibu Lions and Hiroshima Toyo Carp.

    At the plate he was 5-for-38, a .132 batting average. His one home run was hit on August 16, 1993 against Detroit Tigers right-hander Bill Gullickson. In the field, he handled 118 chances without an error for a fielding percentage of 1.000.

    Van Burkleo played the last of his 14 Major League Baseball games on July 30, 1994.
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    SEI, I'd say.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    SEI, I'd say.
    My guess as well...... INxj as maybe a backup.
    Suomea

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    I bet he's the same type as David Duchovny.

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    discojoe, god that was so insightful. And I agree.

    I don't like him. Don't care what type he is, but...I think Star Wars is complete and utter bullshit. There, I said it. I knew one obsessed Star Wars fan, but he got locked up for *I kid you not* breaking into women's homes and stealing their panties. Therefore, all Star Wars fans are shitty people. (Okay, that part I'm kidding...)

    Star Trek is waaay better than Star Wars.

    I personally use Yoda as a dildo every night. Let's just say that I convinced him that there really is such a thing as trying.

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