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Thread: Fishing for confirmation

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    snegledmaca's Avatar
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    Default Fishing for confirmation

    What is fishing for confirmation? Like, you hold something to be true but you want to hear it from someone else in order to give your self the justification to believe in it? Like, if an authority says the same things you want to be true you have justification for action/belief. Prior to that you have uncertainty, self doubt. Is this linked to socionics or is it just human? I'm thinking that if it is linked it's linked to super id or super ego.

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    Default Re: Fishing for confirmation

    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Like, if an authority says the same things you want to be true you have justification for action/belief. Prior to that you have uncertainty, self doubt.
    I'd say it's Ti in super-id, perhaps even Se + Ti in super-id.

    Which is why, for instance, Phaedrus is so keen to have some "socionists of authority" who supposedly share the views that he wants to be true. It's exactly that phenomenon.

    Actually yours was a very good and concise description.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Default Re: Fishing for confirmation

    Well, not so much an authority, that was more of an example, more like an excuse to take a course of action. So that later on you can avoid responsibility for failure. "Damn it, why did I listen to so and so! That is the cause of my mistakes! It's all their fault (And I still remain untainted).". Do you think it's still linked to Ti and Se?

    EDIT: Like in the cartoons when somebody say it's a bad idea and the other responds so you think I should do it? Then I shall! completely ignoring the other person. You know, just seeking an excuse. It doesn't even have to be really valid.

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    Default Re: Fishing for confirmation

    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    What is fishing for confirmation? Like, you hold something to be true but you want to hear it from someone else in order to give your self the justification to believe in it? Like, if an authority says the same things you want to be true you have justification for action/belief. Prior to that you have uncertainty, self doubt. Is this linked to socionics or is it just human? I'm thinking that if it is linked it's linked to super id or super ego.
    I think it has to do with function 5, actually. (maybe for INTjs, at least?) For example, I can hold my own intellectually on most things, but when it comes to a car engine I say let the mechanic handle it.

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    Default Re: Fishing for confirmation

    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Well, not so much an authority, that was more of an example, more like an excuse to take a course of action. So that later on you can avoid responsibility for failure. "Damn it, why did I listen to so and so! That is the cause of my mistakes! It's all their fault (And I still remain untainted).". Do you think it's still linked to Ti and Se?
    I had never thought of that before. I would say, yes, even if indirectly. Because expecting to follow the course of action given by someone else is linked to Ti in super-id imo, but the "avoiding responsibility" bit, if an inner need (and not just for "spin" purposes), seems to suggest a desire to be under the control of others, rather than being in charge yourself.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Default Re: Fishing for confirmation

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Well, not so much an authority, that was more of an example, more like an excuse to take a course of action. So that later on you can avoid responsibility for failure. "Damn it, why did I listen to so and so! That is the cause of my mistakes! It's all their fault (And I still remain untainted).". Do you think it's still linked to Ti and Se?
    I had never thought of that before. I would say, yes, even if indirectly. Because expecting to follow the course of action given by someone else is linked to Ti in super-id imo, but the "avoiding responsibility" bit, if an inner need (and not just for "spin" purposes), seems to suggest a desire to be under the control of others, rather than being in charge yourself.
    No, not follow others course of action or listen/adhere to their opinion/stance, merely try to get them to confirm what you already decided/know. Most likely ignore their stance if it contradicts this preformed decision. Just looking for confirmation.

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    or deficit?

    It's sort of like this. If you are dropped in the middle of no where with a map, you can use the map to find out how to get to certain points. But first you have to orient yourself. You have to find where you are presently on the map, otherwise it becomes difficult to use the map at all because there may be too many possibilities about where you could be. When I ask for confirmation I am generally trying to orient myself in relation to something else. The map forms in my mind, or rather several maps form in my mind... and then I need to know how it all fits together. The T functions can help with this... But if/when that ends, confirmation is about the question of "are we one the same page?" or "where does your reality intersect with mine and where does it not?" At some point I will make an attempt to orient myself with the outside to make sure the alignment is still working as I think or to establish an alignment. I need to be grounded. I need a point of reference in reality (that is outside of my mind). Confirmation is a way to empirically test the abstract. It is a way to make sure there is something real to what I think, that I'm not just lost in my own mind.

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    there's also the possibility of seeking emotional validation.... ... .. . I don't fully understand validation yet. But I've become aware of it, and have been pondering it.

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    My experiences with this is mostly with INFps and ENFjs. I think I have found more appreciation for Ne with ISFps and ESFjs.. I don't really see them actively seeking Ti out in the form of asking for confirmation. This is something I see many times with INFps.. so I think maybe it might have to do with a desire to ground their visions in the physical reality they value. And I do get the impression that it is confirmation they are looking for. Meaning, something they have already decided and want someone else to confirm. This is different than an ISFj or ENFp asking for Te information.

    Hmm... yes I get the feeling that Gammas (the other Ni/Se quadra) also decide things already, but don't ask for confirmation except on factual information. Like, an ISFj asking for confirmation of someone's phone number, or an ENTj or INTp being confused at a turn of events (something that would not bother an Ne type) and asking for additional information to explain it.

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    I definitely do this. I always want someone authoritative to confirm what I am doing is right ... for example, especially with homework or whatever, even if I think it is probably right, I can not trust myself and feel 10x better if someone I view as strong in that area/smart says "yes, that's correct."

    Never realized it was / Super-ID related but it does make perfect sense that it is. I love when people make strong confirmations of anything I plan to do.. otherwise it is so wishy-washy in my mind and I am not sure if I should act.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    I definitely do this. I always want someone authoritative to confirm what I am doing is right ... for example, especially with homework or whatever, even if I think it is probably right, I can not trust myself and feel 10x better if someone I view as strong in that area/smart says "yes, that's correct."

    Never realized it was / Super-ID related but it does make perfect sense that it is. I love when people make strong confirmations of anything I plan to do.. otherwise it is so wishy-washy in my mind and I am not sure if I should act.
    yes i was specifically avoiding this example because i thought the thread was about something other than this kind of thing.. meaning things with a definite answer, like homework or math problems. But definitely... this really seems like Ti dual seeking.

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    i've known a few ti types who do this. one istj in particular. if he knows someone who is an authority/expert and then later gets into a drunken rage at some social outing he will usually use this person of authority as a tool for argument.

    I've called him on it several times and once he kept trying to get me to go with him and i said, "right heath? righht heath? right heath?" and he became dramatic. better days, definitely.
    asd

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    Default Re: Fishing for confirmation

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Like, if an authority says the same things you want to be true you have justification for action/belief. Prior to that you have uncertainty, self doubt.
    I'd say it's Ti in super-id, perhaps even Se + Ti in super-id.

    Which is why, for instance, Phaedrus is so keen to have some "socionists of authority" who supposedly share the views that he wants to be true. It's exactly that phenomenon.

    Actually yours was a very good and concise description.
    I'd say it's just insecurity, maybe with some Se seeking. Where do you see Ti?

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