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Thread: INTjs as natural leaders

  1. #1
    Creepy-Fry

    Default INTjs as natural leaders

    Just curious, some intj description says intj is the natural leaders. but i never leader before, i know i have some amazing idea to improve the group. but i dont think i have the charm to be a leader. plus i dont have the natural burning desire to take the lead (i am passive).

    does that mean the description of intj is wrong?

    Fry
    intj

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    Learn charm.

    Learn action.

    Turn your ideas into reality.

    Potential. Success. Worth.

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    Fry

    I think it said that INTjs could be great leaders, though they don't really strive to be in the center of attention

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    says intj is the natural leaders.
    yeah probably these descriptions were wrotten by INTJs.
    otherwise - yes they can be good leaders if there is a necessity for leader but they rarely (never?) chase the leader position like ESTps and ENTjs do.
    http://forum.socionix.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by krae
    says intj is the natural leaders.
    yeah probably these descriptions were wrotten by INTJs.
    otherwise - yes they can be good leaders if there is a necessity for leader but they rarely (never?) chase the leader position like ESTps and ENTjs do.
    ESTps chase the leader position because they assume that they should be in charge, in terms of authority -- but they'd be happy then to listen to someone else's vision in terms of what actually should be done.

    ENTjs usually have a clear vision (however half-baked ) of what is to be done, and they are very quick to try to persuade others of it , so from this point of view, ENTjs are "natural leaders".

    INTjs tend to have a more careful and idependent analysis of the situation and a self-confident idea of what should be done, so if they conclude that things will really go downhill if they don't take up the leader role, then they will step forward.

    Perhaps the ideal situation is this - -

    1)The INTj analyses the situation and comes up with the strategy.
    2) S/he than tells the ENTj about it, who, having understood it; will take action to persuade others to buy it, especially the ESTp
    3) They both let the ESTp think he's "the boss", as long as he sticks to tne original strategy and does the dirty work of bossing others around in the process.

    :wink:
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    yes, no one man is an island, we are all interconnected. we're all 'leaders' in one way or another. there is no true leader per se, only archetypal leaders.

    bill gates as an ENTj would explain his shrewd pioneering with IBM and QDOS bought in a hurry and the rest they say is history.

    conversely, steve jobs of apple is perhaps more INTJ as would explain his more thought out OS that technically works better albeit less practical due to a closed-architecture and hence being more for a niche market.

    Another possibility:

    ENTj stands for enterprise where passion for "shrewd profit" is the motive e.g. corporate america.

    INTj stands for enterprise where passion for "intelligent profit" is the motive e.g. the MLM industry.

    They both share something in common. Both loved, hated or misunderstood by the other temperaments.
    Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.

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    What you will often find with INTjs is that they would rather NOT like to lead. An INTj will often settle with an advisor position; otherwise he would rather work alone. I would expect an INTj to falter easily in an environment which requires him to act quickly and decisively.

    Also, one's weaknesses become part of the very thing one is leading. According to Smilingeyes, an INTj in a leadership position becomes very unreasonable and also childish in his motives.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    I'd prefer it if people knew what needed to be done and did it well. Usually they don't

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    It depends what sort of "leadership" you're talking about; if one is speaking of the sort of leadership that requires one to "act upon one's instincts and do so expediently", then no, I am not cut-out to lead in such a manner. HOWEVER, if one is speaking of leading intellectually or morally I believe I could fit well into such a position, simply because they do not require the quick thinking stated in the former sort of leadership.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    I think that INTj would be awful top-executives, because this way they can only keep track of what others are doing but they can't influence much. INTjs are system-thinkers and can make precise plans for the future. The problem: there are so many levels of executives in-between that there is little control over anything. Being a perfectionist is tough, but it is much worse if the perfectionist has to rely on other people to do things the right way.

    INTjs would make excellent minor leaders (being the executive of 4-10 people). INTjs can make detailed plans, add a time-schedule, present it to the employees in an enthusiastic manner, explain why it is the best possible plan and how to carry it out. The INTj can keep an eye on the progress and organize everything well. He/she will probably be easy to work with because he/she always knows answers to questions, is on track with everything that's happening and what needs to be done, etc. At the same time he/she is difficult to work with because of the perfectionism and the precise plan. If the employees are also perfectionists, the cooperation should be very effective.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

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  11. #11
    Creepy-Paul

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    INTj type descriptions should really be broken down by age given that they have an enormous amount of “bloom” potential.

    In high school, they probably are not natural leaders, most, not even close. By the time they hit 35-40, yes, clearly, if they want to.


    Paul

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    Here is a general outline of the INTj representative of the type, Maximilien Robespierre:

    [Robespierre,] known to his contemporaries also as "the Incorruptible", is one of the best known of the leaders of the French Revolution. He earned the nickname of "the Incorruptible" through his selfless devotion the the Revolution. He was an influential member of the Committee of Public Safety, which oversaw the period of the French Revolution in which the revolutionaries consolidated their power; a period which is commonly known as the Reign of Terror. The myth that Robespierre himself became a virtual dictator in his final years is often repeated. While the Committee of Public Safety was certainly a dictatorial committee, Robespierre was not in his own right a dictator. In the Thermidor of Revolutionary calendar's Year Two, he was executed by spiteful colleagues.

    Politically he was a disciple of Jean-Jacques Rousseau, among other Enlightenment philosophes, and a capable articulator of the beliefs of the bourgeois left. He harnessed this talent as a means of rabble-rousing. He is often described as a rather impractical man, who coupled deistic beliefs in the Supreme Being with marked fanaticism.

    He was described as physically unimposing. He dressed immaculately - so much so that some described him as a dandy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robespierre
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

  13. #13
    Creepy-Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fry
    i never leader before
    No one is until they take charge of something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fry
    i dont think i have the charm to be a leader.
    I’ve met a number CEOs, Cxxs, VPs, and global directors of this, that, or the other. There are very few of them that I would describe as charming. Competence is vastly more important than charm when it comes to running things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    INTjs are system-thinkers and can make precise plans for the future.
    Yes, and corporations are systems that need plans for the future. People are also systems, very complicated ones though, but they also can be understood, causal relations can be established, and with understanding comes the potential for control.

    Paul

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    First of all INTjs make up 12 percent of top corporate leadership, considering they are estimated at >1 –3.5% that is pretty good. The second job choice for INTj is Law, non-practicing management role.

    I would identify “true leadership” as political/military leadership. Can they be true leaders? Absolutely, I am one. It would be arrogant presumption to say this without it having been affirmed by those I lead, which it has.

    The qualities required for leadership are not precluded by personality type. I am introverted, quiet, with that characteristic INTj stoic face. But, I am charismatic and everyone likes me. These come from trust, building rapport, and self-confidence. With those who know me this is supported by a track record of right decisions and doing the right thing.

    There are aspects of taking an active leadership role that are contrary to the INTj character. You just have to have the courage to face down that part of yourself and do it anyway. For instance, I am putting myself in a higher visibility role than I would prefer. And I am placing myself into social situations where I need to interact with other people, often without knowing anyone around me. My value for competence can make me short sighted when dealing with wildly unrealistic suggestions. I have to work past this so I do not alienate the person who suggest it.

    The descriptions I have read of INTjs state, and might I add accurately for me, that the INTj will remain in the back until it becomes clear to them that they will be more competent leaders that those in charge. This is the case with me in the military. It also translates to political leadership. I seek political leadership because I fell that I will be well above others in ability and decision making. I may not be typical, but I think I illustrate this INTj path.

    As for “I would expect an INTj to falter easily in an environment which requires him to act quickly and decisively”, once again this may not be typical, but I have no problem making split second decisions, and sticking to them. And as for being broken up by age, I am 22.

    Hope this has been helpful.
    INTj

  15. #15
    Creepy-Fry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    ......because this way they can only keep track of what others are doing but they can't influence much.

    .....explain why it is the best possible plan and how to carry it out.

    ......If the employees are also perfectionists, the cooperation should be very effective.
    Thanks Kristina, those things you said is so true, you really know me well. It is true, intj DONT want to influent the world around them, they want to observe.

    yes, intj loves "best possible plan", there is nothing more avoying then executing a un-efficient plan. (thats why i think i can never be a politician, unless i want to be a effetient politician)

    yes, if the team member is incompetent, he will be "let go", we only want the best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Republicus
    INTjs make up 12 percent of top corporate leadership, considering they are estimated at >1 –3.5% that is pretty good.

    INTj will remain in the back until it becomes clear to them that they will be more competent leaders that those in charge. This is the case with me in the military.
    i have to ask, how did u get this statistic?

    so true for the second quote.

    so I conclude that intj can be a good leader, but they are not motivated to be one until someone is not doing a good job and anoying him with the inefficiency.

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    Most likely type to represent God is the INTj.

    A group of INTJ's is an arguement.

    INTj's can usually explain *anything* with insightful ideas due to their (automatic) 8th function of concrete art that is introverted intuition .
    Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.

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    http://www.leadershipadvantage.com/p...nLeaders.shtml
    http://www.infj.org/archive/typestats.html

    That top link isn't the only percentage I have seen for INTjs in management. I have seen another site that puts the INTj management percentage at like 11.8%.

    The 3.3% INTj was too high, I was remembering the male percentage, not the total. Sorry ladies. The lower than one percent is from Kiersey.

    I guess it is important to note that these are MBTI types, not socionics types. Which are different? So this site say, I don't know how/why. I just found that out too.
    INTj

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    MBTI INTJ =/= Socionic INTj.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowyc
    A group of INTJ's is an arguement.


    I wonder what we should call the groups for the rest of the types...
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Most likely type to represent God is the INTj.
    Dot.
    http://forum.socionix.com

    I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.

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    I couldn't find it yesterday, but this is the link for where I got the 2nd choice for INTj being attorney, management

    http://www.sac.edu/students/admissio...sting/intj.PDF
    INTj

  22. #22
    Creepy-

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    This is socionics not myers briggs, so the last letter is reversed for introverts ,so they are referring to socionics INTp.
    -So socionics INTp are great leaders, huh?

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    "This is socionics not myers briggs, so the last letter is reversed for introverts ,so they are referring to socionics INTp. "

    Not neccessarily.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    MBTI INTJ =/= Socionic INTj.
    I'm not sure about that

    The link that Republicus mentioned says something like

    MYERS BRIGGS TYPE INDICATOR
    Portrait of an INTJ - Introverted iNtuitive Thinking Judging
    (Introverted Intuition with Extraverted Thinking)

    I guess from it that MBTI INTj = Socionic INTp

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    What about mystics post?

    "MBTI INTJ =/= Socionic INTj"

    I get INTJ on the socionics and mbti tests. Where does that leave us?
    INTj

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    Actually, that description you posted of MBTI INTJs, Republicus, is absolutely NOT INTp. Seems a hell of alot more like INTj than anything.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Republicus
    What about mystics post?

    "MBTI INTJ =/= Socionic INTj"

    I get INTJ on the socionics and mbti tests. Where does that leave us?
    .. means nothing.

    "INTJ" in MBTI could mean that you are Introverted, Intuitive, Thinking, and Judging. But how do you define judging? It's impossible, there are two contrasting views of it, and people don't even realize it. INTJ could also mean that you are NiTe, which is defintaley NOT socionics.

    In socionics, you could be an LII- Logical-intuitive Intratim. That means your base is introverted logic, Ti, coupled with intuition, Ne. But are you judging or percieving? Again, it's hard to tell. You are judging with your thought process... but then you could also be percieving when are dealing with the outside world. I think trying to define types that way is a little too abstract, though, because it's hard to really pin down what people mean.

    Where was I going with this again?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    You are judging with your thought process... but then you could also be percieving when are dealing with the outside world. I think trying to define types that way is a little too abstract, though, because it's hard to really pin down what people mean
    Rocky, I get what you are explaining here, but still, in practice, there is a HUGE difference between INTjs and INTps

    And between j/ p in general

  29. #29
    Creepy-Chad

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Quote Originally Posted by Republicus
    What about mystics post?

    "MBTI INTJ =/= Socionic INTj"

    I get INTJ on the socionics and mbti tests. Where does that leave us?
    .. means nothing.

    "INTJ" in MBTI could mean that you are Introverted, Intuitive, Thinking, and Judging. But how do you define judging? It's impossible, there are two contrasting views of it, and people don't even realize it. INTJ could also mean that you are NiTe, which is defintaley NOT socionics.

    In socionics, you could be an LII- Logical-intuitive Intratim. That means your base is introverted logic, Ti, coupled with intuition, Ne. But are you judging or percieving? Again, it's hard to tell. You are judging with your thought process... but then you could also be percieving when are dealing with the outside world. I think trying to define types that way is a little too abstract, though, because it's hard to really pin down what people mean.

    Where was I going with this again?
    you're off point. Myers Briggs does define INTj as introverted intution with extroverted thinking.
    Myers Briggs defines judging in accordance with the presence of an extroverted judging function in one's ego block (one's second or first function). Although this may be incorrect for the introverts if going by Jungian standards, it is nonetheless is a definition of judging.
    MBTI introverted judgers are always socionics perceivers. Always. This is of course, under the assumption that you tested correctly. But testing correctly is independent of these descriptions and thus is grounds for a seperate topic, which deals with the flaws with the testing.

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    No, Socionics INTps have Fe as their weakest function, whereas MBTI INTjs have Se as their weakest function; obviously, they are NOT the same type.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    ^^ By the functions, yes, you are right. The problem is that people don't understand the functions. They assume that one introverted type in MBTI must have the oppostie J/P in socionics. If you go by the profiles , then the types do seem to line up. That's why people get confused, no matter what the "official" defintion is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Confusion over the Judging/Percieving scale in MBTI....


    Why is it so hard for introverts to decide wheather they are J/P in MBTI? Myers said that whether you are a judger or perciever depends on the outside world, not the inner one. Everyone is both judging and percieving, but the letter that you put at the end is suppossed to be based on how you act in the outer world. So an IxxP type will be clear-sighted, but be disorganized with his space, and an IxxJ type will organized but be more drunk-brained. Theortically. What Myers is basically saying is that if your base, introverted, function is a judging one, and your extraverted function is a percieving one then you should test as a perciever. So what happens? These introverted-perceptive people, defined by Myers, generally test as JUDGERS instead! It only makes sense...

    When your dominant function is a judging function, you tend to THINK like a judger; it is your "main" world. Whether an introvert or an extravert. Your secondary function is not always there, so why would you test as your secondary function tells you to?? This is why rational types have all of the stereotypical "judging" traits.

    So, this leads to confuse as who is what type in MBTI (especially the introverts). There are people who are clear "percievers", yet their extraverted function is still a judging one, but they would never think to test as a judger (talking about Ni and Si types). What starts to happen here? People see someone who they think may be an I-S-F-P, based off of the acronym and which scales the person leans to more. So they start to see all these ISFP types as being FiSe, because Myers set up the system that way. The problem is that this type that seems to lean more towards the P scale is actually an SiFe type, because dominant Si types are always based off of their perceptive function first, and they THINK the way a perceiver is "suppossed" to think. The Si and Ni types do NOT follow plans and scheduales (generally), they do NOT mind changing or adapting, and they usually wait until the last minute to do something (or not finish anything), like the definition of a perciever says. But that is not what Myers meant when she defined the J/P scale, and which one should be your last letter. Still, people seem to ignore that, and they have two totally diffrent views of who are the IxxP types and who are the IxxJ types.

    This is how Jung described the introverted types. He said that the Ni and Si types were irrational introverts, and the Ti and Fi types are the rational introverts. He described the irrational introverts as being the more sporatic ones, bouncing around from one thing to the next. The rationals were the more stable and consitent types. This is totally diffrent from what the types have gained meaning today. Now people think that Si and Ni are stable, while Ti and Fi are the adaptable ones! Myers should have just saved herself the trouble of all this, and said that your dominant function dictates what the last letter of your acronym is.

    This (and other things) is why J/P is such a mess, and to keep the scales around you would have to go through all this explaination of it. According to Myers definition, I should be an ISTJ, because my inner world is disorganized, and I am not clear-sighted, nor do I stick to my plans or care about adapting. According to Jung, I am an irrational type. The stupid J/P scales should be dropped altogether, in favor of just ordering the functions the way people are dominanted by them. That way you can just refer to a person as a "rational" or an "irrational" and be done with it.

    EDIT: I'd like to add that this can be complicated with the ID functions, which Myers was not aware of. For example, the SiFe above could also be using his Se function while extraverted, or his Fi function while introverted. This means when he is extraverted he is not *always* judging, and when he is introverted he is not *always* percieving.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
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  32. #32
    Creepy-Chad

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    No, Socionics INTps have Fe as their weakest function, whereas MBTI INTjs have Se as their weakest function; obviously, they are NOT the same type.
    No, you're wrong. they are the same type, yet MBTi says that introverted thinkers with extraverted intutuion (TiNe), have a fourth function of extraverted feeling, and that this is their weakest function. This fourth function is the equivalent of the suggestive function in socionics, and not equivalent to the the POLR in socionics. The MBTi people did not delve deep enough into the typology to discover things as the the POLR and role function; it is simple not part of the vocabulary. Nontheless, it does not mean that there is not the potential for the existance of those terms under such system.

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    "No, you're wrong. they are the same type, yet MBTi says that introverted thinkers with extraverted intutuion (TiNe), have a fourth function of extraverted feeling, and that this is their weakest function. This fourth function is the equivalent of the suggestive function in socionics, and not equivalent to the the POLR in socionics. The MBTi people did not delve deep enough into the typology to discover things as the the POLR and role function; it is simple not part of the vocabulary. Nontheless, it does not mean that there is not the potential for the existance of those terms under such system."

    I suppose with this point you are successful in undercutting MY view, but you don't really do anything to prove that your view is correct other than state that it is.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Default Re: are intj real leaders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fry
    Just curious, some intj description says intj is the natural leaders. but i never leader before, i know i have some amazing idea to improve the group. but i dont think i have the charm to be a leader. plus i dont have the natural burning desire to take the lead (i am passive).

    does that mean the description of intj is wrong?

    Fry
    intj
    techinically speaking, you don't need charm. just a passion to change things. generally i don't like to lead - unless of course it's an emergency, or i'm in the mood, or i'm totally surrounded by imbeciles.

    i like to lead from behind, i don't want to be the king, i want to be the advisor. i don't want to be the target, but i do want to reap the rewards.

    in my company i usually go around my manager and work with the next one in charge. make sure they know my name and potential. as i learn what say and what not to (learning boundries), i speak my mind. am i leading? no. but i can influence. hopefully it will actually pay off one day - and if my advice is bad, and that person is fired - it doesn't go back to me!

    but in general, i would rather someone else take the responibility. though i have the ability, i don't want to use it. i can decide many things, but rarily ever right on the spot - and that's what a leader does. it's sort of like Jean Luc Picard - the episode where the doctor can hear his thoughts. she said that he didn't know the answer - he just said "this way", but made it sound official. i don't like the idea that it might be wrong.

  35. #35
    Creepy-

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    Are you purposely being difficult?
    It's simply the comparison of two systems.
    http://www.typelogic.com/intp.html
    http://www.personalitypage.com/INTP.html
    http://www.intp.org/intprofile.html
    Look, it doesn't take much to jump to a relatively reasonable conclusion that they simply made the third function the hidden agenda, and the fourth the suggestive function. Since MBTI doesn't aknowledge socionics, it's unlikely to respond as to how it's system corresponds with model-A.
    Yes, there is a slight chance that this is incorrect, but if you put the pieces of the puzzle together its difficult to see how you can come up with any other conclusion than mine.

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    "Look, it doesn't take much to jump to a relatively reasonable conclusion that they simply made the third function the hidden agenda, and the fourth the suggestive function."

    What are you talking about? The third function is the MBTI system is STRONGER than the fourth function, so how could it possibly be the hidden agenda if one assumes the fourth function to be the estimative function, with the hidden agenda weaker than the estimative function?
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

  37. #37
    Creepy-chad

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    Look man, the whole point of this argument is that the two system differ as to how they give weight to the functions that exist outside of what socionics calls the ego block.
    Once you are TiNe, you are going to have the rest of the functions lagging behind it in some order. Each system differs in the order that is given to the remaining functions and thus the relative strength that each function has.

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    "Look man, the whole point of this argument is that the two system differ as to how they give weight to the functions that exist outside of what socionics calls the ego block. "

    And yet you still consider them to be the same type...?

    "Once you are TiNe, you are going to have the rest of the functions lagging behind it in some order. Each system differs in the order that is given to the remaining functions and thus the relative strength that each function has."

    Ok...?
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Look, Chad, it's not enough to look at the systems (and the systems themsleves are not really compatible, either). It's the common perception of the types. You can tell by the profiles written about them;

    http://www.typelogic.com/intj.html

    http://socionics.com/prof/intj.htm

    Some people may think that they automatically have to switch, but usually if they relate to one type in MBTI they will relate to the same type in socionics. This is because of the simple fact; no one understands the functions. That's why. People don't define types with the functions, they think of it in terms of J/P. You can go off on a million tangents into how this can change things. It's not as simple, or clear-cut as you are trynig to make it. It seems like you are trying to fit squares into round holes.

    Oh, and your argument for the systems being the same is illogical.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    The first thing i noticed about MBTI INTJ is the way it talks about them being "idea's people" where "anything is possible and everything is negotiable".

    So i thought yeah, if Ni was dominant (for MBTI INTJ) that would make sense with having conscious ideas. I literally convinced myself for months that i was an "ideas person". This is a good and bad thing!

    I later realised rightly so that the reason why a Socionic's INTj can also be an "ideas person" is because of having Ni as the 8th most instincticual function, the automatic skill or talent taken for granted. Thus... I don't consiously create ideas I subconsiouly announce them in my speech and then wonder later why i'm laughed at for being seriously funny about stuff.
    Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.

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