What do you dislike about your conflictor?

[krieger]

This has probably been asked a thousand times already, but honestly...?

Are conflicting relations as bad as socionics claims they are?

-- of particular interest: what irks INTj's about ESFp's and vice versa?

[implied]

would gladly perform brain surgery on me -- especially if they're unqualified + total lack of professionalism.

[Jarno]

This has probably been asked a thousand times already, but honestly...?

Are conflicting relations as bad as socionics claims they are?

-- of particular interest: what irks INTj's about ESFp's and vice versa?

First of all, the exact description of the relationship as described by socionics is something like this:

In the beginning, you see potential in your conflictor. There is a mutual attraction.
When the relationship gets closer, each partners seems to delibaretely say and do the wrong thing.
Then there is this problem that you cannot attack your partner in the open because he looks to strong.
Therefor you get angry on the inside.
The last stage is when you burst out in anger, or attack in some vicious way.

And then after a while everything starts over again, you get attracted again...

-----------

Now I've lived with my conflictor for 4 years, and the description above is very true.

It's difficult to exactly pinpoint what the problem would be between INTJ and ESFP.

[discojoe]

After living with my conflictor for 15 years, I've learned to tolerate them pretty well, and can get on with them with some deliberate effort. The main source of friction is how they seem to dart around from conclusion to conclusion, from point A to point B (for the fun of it) and seem to want me to follow along and agree with them, even though I can really only enjoy the spectacle of this kind of brainstorming from a distance. I prefer moving along one focused path for a long duration, and that seems to make them anxious.

IDK, conflict really isn't the worst relationship. I think contrary and quasi-identical are much more irritating.

[xyz]

Or supervisor.

[discojoe]

Or supervisor.

Yeah. Supervision is annoying, especially when the supervisor is the one who is full of shit. I try to back off of ESTps, because a lot of the time they're not actually doing anything wrong, and it's just functional conflict that I try to rise up against. ENFps' main mode of supervising ISFjs seems to be by dumping a bucket of "what ifs" onto everything the ISFj says, which won't change anything and isn't even necessarily good advice.

Back to conflictors, I notice that I tend to have a similar sense of humor as my conflictor, though this may be due to my older brother being ENTp. Makes sense, because I tend to annoy people in my own quadra with my bizarre humor.

[Ms. Kensington]

yeah I think you can appreciate your conflictor from afar, and in general i think the way of thinking is so different that it's not as annoying as other relations, it's just more tiring and maybe confusing.

My experience is I have the most conflict with my superego, comparative, and contrary next to my conflictor. Basically, i see these relations as producing more of a complete roadblock in doing things. Their way of thinking lines up in some ways to yours, but they use totally opposite ways of implementing them, so the conflict is more complete, in my opinion. A conflictor seems to be dealing with different problems thank you are, so it's not really as if they are roadblocking you from doing what you want to do. It's like you know that person is different from the get go. The difficulty comes from getting help from that person, and its a translation issue more than anything.

Btw, jarno.. i find what you've posted to have some truth to it. I thought it had to do with the particular pairs of conflictors.. but it would be in keeping with what I've posted (the fact that conflictors hold back and then blow up).

[Logos]

yeah I think you can appreciate your conflictor from afar, and in general i think the way of thinking is so different that it's not as annoying as other relations, it's just more tiring and maybe confusing.

My experience is I have the most conflict with my superego, comparative, and contrary next to my conflictor. Basically, i see these relations as producing more of a complete roadblock in doing things. Their way of thinking lines up in some ways to yours, but they use totally opposite ways of implementing them, so the conflict is more complete, in my opinion. A conflictor seems to be dealing with different problems thank you are, so it's not really as if they are roadblocking you from doing what you want to do. It's like you know that person is different from the get go. The difficulty comes from getting help from that person, and its a translation issue more than anything.

That is an excellent way of putting it.

[BLauritson]

In my individual experience, supervision (with me as the supervisee) has been the worst relation I've had with anyone thus far. I once half-jokingly thought to myself a long time ago "Conflicting relations are better than supervisory relations because at least with conflictors, you get to hit the other bastard just as hard as they hit you". In all seriousness though I have found supervisory relations to be the worst in my personal experience.

[Birds]

I hate just about everything about my conflictor.

I don't know, I've never really met my conflictor. I think they can be a bit too hardcore.

[mikemex]

I know that most of you aren't going to agree with me, but what I don't like about ISTj is that they are not really in touch with reality.

They are so rational that they often forget that their rules are, at the end, subjective and not universal. It's like the "categorical imperative" of Kant, the "perfection" of Plato, etc.

More on my post "On Logic".

[Expat]

Unpredictable, unstable moods. I always wondered how ILEs could cope with them, but ILEs probably keep them happy and don't get as many mood swings.

Yes, exactly.

[snegledmaca]

In my individual experience, supervision (with me as the supervisee) has been the worst relation I've had with anyone thus far. I once half-jokingly thought to myself a long time ago "Conflicting relations are better than supervisory relations because at least with conflictors, you get to hit the other bastard just as hard as they hit you". In all seriousness though I have found supervisory relations to be the worst in my personal experience.

It sucks on the other side just as bad. Same here. People that claim to be in happy functioning supervision relationships are not. Either or both are mistyped. There is no such thing as a functioning intimate supervision relationship. It's like hell where the other person, well it appears as if they do everything in their power to do things wrong and they are incapable of learning no matter how much you teach them. Every day, every time, over and over again, the same things, the same mistakes, the same criticism, the same reaction, the same fight. Constant stifling, suffocation of yourself. Investing time and energy in vain on some practically brain dead loaf. There is no mutual understanding, there is no compromise, just torment day after day.

Unpredictable, unstable moods. I always wondered how ILEs could cope with them, but ILEs probably keep them happy and don't get as many mood swings.

I have never seen a SEI with an unpredictable mood. Or have a mood swing. They almost always have the same mood. From personal experiences ESI have been the ones with mood swings, violent mood swings. Ones where they are likely to hurt another person physically. Break your arm for doing what you did. (Them and every other Se type)

[ScarlettLux]

In my individual experience, supervision (with me as the supervisee) has been the worst relation I've had with anyone thus far. I once half-jokingly thought to myself a long time ago "Conflicting relations are better than supervisory relations because at least with conflictors, you get to hit the other bastard just as hard as they hit you". In all seriousness though I have found supervisory relations to be the worst in my personal experience.

It sucks on the other side just as bad. Same here. People that claim to be in happy functioning supervision relationships are not. Either or both are mistyped. There is no such thing as a functioning intimate supervision relationship. It's like hell where the other person, well it appears as if they do everything in their power to do things wrong and they are incapable of learning no matter how much you teach them. Every day, every time, over and over again, the same things, the same mistakes, the same criticism, the same reaction, the same fight. Constant stifling, suffocation of yourself. Investing time and energy in vain on some practically brain dead loaf. There is no mutual understanding, there is no compromise, just torment day after day.

Unpredictable, unstable moods. I always wondered how ILEs could cope with them, but ILEs probably keep them happy and don't get as many mood swings.

I have never seen a SEI with an unpredictable mood. Or have a mood swing. They almost always have the same mood. From personal experiences ESI have been the ones with mood swings, violent mood swings. Ones where they are likely to hurt another person physically. Break your arm for doing what you did. (Them and every other Se type)

Who would find who to be the "brain dead loaf" The supervisor finding the supervisee more annoying? This practically describes my current relationship .. it's either this or Benefactor/Beneficiary where I am the Benefactor. Man, it's just so frustrating to be in a higher position than they are ... and looking down upon them ... it seems like everything said person does just frustrates me and yet he keeps on acting normal! He is not getting mad, I am! He tries really hard to appease me, almost too hard... but goes about it entirely the wrong way, making me see him as very weak.

[liveandletlive]

my dad is my conflict (LII) and i was in love with a boy who was an LII for a while too. It's weird how something always comes up that screws everything up. It's almost as if it doesn't have as much to do with us as it does with external situations... Ummm ok some things that piss me off about them/us:

- Always bring up sensitive/sore subjects with me that I really don't want to talk about. That just irks me. I guess it's their lack of or something idk...

- Always giving me shit to "get in control of my emotions"... it's a big deal with them...

- Always calling me out if i exaggerate or something in a story for dramatic effect- that couldn't have happened like that... ohhh sorry, just trying to make everyone laugh!

- As smart as they are, they can be so closed-minded... it's really rather odd and drives me crazy.

Idk, i mean ive learned to live with it so it's really not that bad. One weird experience (i think i posted this somewhere else on the forum) my dad and i were watching tv together and just started bashing eachother out of the blue "Why are you like this?" "Why do you do that?" and then afterwards sat in the awkward silence following this confrontation... surprisingly, it was more comfortable during the fight and afterwards than before... it was like OK so we just confirmed our relationship once again haha.

For supervision however, I love my supervisor. They're able to help me with my weak points without me feeling like they're talking down to me such as the case with my conflict. I like their advice because it helps me better myself.

[liveandletlive]

my dad is my conflict (LII) and i was in love with a boy who was an LII for a while too. It's weird how something always comes up that screws everything up. It's almost as if it doesn't have as much to do with us as it does with external situations... Ummm ok some things that piss me off about them/us:

- Always bring up sensitive/sore subjects with me that I really don't want to talk about. That just irks me. I guess it's their lack of or something idk...

- Always giving me shit to "get in control of my emotions"... it's a big deal with them...

- Always calling me out if i exaggerate or something in a story for dramatic effect- that couldn't have happened like that... ohhh sorry, just trying to make everyone laugh!

- As smart as they are, they can be so closed-minded... it's really rather odd and drives me crazy.

Idk, i mean ive learned to live with it so it's really not that bad. One weird experience (i think i posted this somewhere else on the forum) my dad and i were watching tv together and just started bashing eachother out of the blue "Why are you like this?" "Why do you do that?" and then afterwards sat in the awkward silence following this confrontation... surprisingly, it was more comfortable during the fight and afterwards than before... it was like OK so we just confirmed our relationship once again haha.

For supervision however, I love my supervisor. They're able to help me with my weak points without me feeling like they're talking down to me such as the case with my conflict. I like their advice because it helps me better myself.

...are you sure you're not EIE?

haha very... i dont have a bone of in me

[maze]

This:

"HI =), how are you doing?"
"HI =) , how is everything for you today?"
"HI =) , did you get such and such?"
"HI =), sorry, I didn't say hi to you earlier"
Every day.

She talks to everyone, everyday...I've never known a principal to be this friendly. It was really nice at first...now I mostly just want to turn the other way when I see her coming. But I don't, I give her all the information she asks for and =) right back at her. I guess this kind of networking is part of her working energy. It's just I'm not in the mood for playing catch up as much as she seems to be...and I'm not comfortable just shrugging her off...and that is why professional masks emerged!

Also, it's October and there is still a kinder classroom without a teacher. She knows the obvious thing to do in this situation, but she is holding off for a different situation to come along. Which makes people (six teachers, some parents/students) nervous and uncomfortable. If the risk she is taking(waiting) pays off, it will be the best thing....but it doesn't appear to anyone that she'll get her miracle. People view her as wasting time/waiting in vain.

[liveandletlive]

my dad is my conflict (LII) and i was in love with a boy who was an LII for a while too. It's weird how something always comes up that screws everything up. It's almost as if it doesn't have as much to do with us as it does with external situations... Ummm ok some things that piss me off about them/us:

- Always bring up sensitive/sore subjects with me that I really don't want to talk about. That just irks me. I guess it's their lack of or something idk...

- Always giving me shit to "get in control of my emotions"... it's a big deal with them...

- Always calling me out if i exaggerate or something in a story for dramatic effect- that couldn't have happened like that... ohhh sorry, just trying to make everyone laugh!

- As smart as they are, they can be so closed-minded... it's really rather odd and drives me crazy.

Idk, i mean ive learned to live with it so it's really not that bad. One weird experience (i think i posted this somewhere else on the forum) my dad and i were watching tv together and just started bashing eachother out of the blue "Why are you like this?" "Why do you do that?" and then afterwards sat in the awkward silence following this confrontation... surprisingly, it was more comfortable during the fight and afterwards than before... it was like OK so we just confirmed our relationship once again haha.

For supervision however, I love my supervisor. They're able to help me with my weak points without me feeling like they're talking down to me such as the case with my conflict. I like their advice because it helps me better myself.

...are you sure you're not EIE?

haha very... i dont have a bone of in me

I also think that about myself simply because I don't value it. I think that you undeniably value , but I also suspect you value > (in fact, you have specifically devalued in the post I quoted).

um you couldn't be more wrong. look at the rest of my posts before you make an ignorant statement such as that.

[liveandletlive]

- Always calling me out if i exaggerate or something in a story for dramatic effect- that couldn't have happened like that... ohhh sorry, just trying to make everyone laugh!

Here you have quite specifically devalued the importance of factual accuracy in favour of being "fun" and "dramatic". The types most likely to call you out on factual inaccuracies are types, so I suspect you might not be talking about LIIs.

they're not necessarily factual inaccuracies... more like logical inaccuracies

[liveandletlive]

Exaggeration is a factual inaccuracy, and trying to be dramatic and make people laugh is a thing.

not true... just look at my posts... im like off the charts... this convo is pointless until then.

[aestrivex]

Exaggeration is a factual inaccuracy, and trying to be dramatic and make people laugh is a thing.

not true... just look at my posts... im like off the charts... this convo is pointless until then.

pointing to your posts and saying "it must be so" does not so the situation make.

[liveandletlive]

Exaggeration is a factual inaccuracy, and trying to be dramatic and make people laugh is a thing.

not true... just look at my posts... im like off the charts... this convo is pointless until then.

pointing to your posts and saying "it must be so" does not so the situation make.

no but i just really don't feel like going through this all again... id rather have more intellectually-stimulating conversations rather than to be constantly defending who i am when it's clear as day.

[Megan]

trying to be dramatic and make people laugh is a thing.

I disagree with this. I think it is one of those stereotypes that do not really hold up that well in reality. In my appraisal ESFps always seem far more dramatic or maybe just more esthusiastic than ENFjs and even ESFjs. Besides some of the INTps here sure think she is great which would be harder for them to think if she was giving off lots .

[Gilly]

Exaggeration is a factual inaccuracy, and trying to be dramatic and make people laugh is a thing.

not true... just look at my posts... im like off the charts... this convo is pointless until then.

pointing to your posts and saying "it must be so" does not so the situation make.

no but i just really don't feel like going through this all again... id rather have more intellectually-stimulating conversations rather than to be constantly defending who i am when it's clear as day.

Except that it's not.

[Gilly]

What I typically don't like about ESIs: unforgiving, closed nature, harsh judgmentalism where a kind word would do wonders, seems to be constantly concerned with intimidating/one-upping people they don't trust.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Just we misinterpret each other's motivations and desires. Not many people are able to tap into what I really want in life as it is, but conflictors are the worst. They will purposefully set you up in situations that won't really be helpful to you they just will think otherwise. Your supervisor/beneficiary maybe probably knows the best of what you really need, even if it makes you uncomfortable. Your dual gives you the same thing, but since you naturally love them, it doesn't bother you as much, since you're too caught up in the process to care that you are evolving.

You misunderstand each other and it creates tension and conflict, that's all it is. You find it too easy to fit them into a label or a box, but the people you really like, you naturally find them more complex and engaging. You just can never put a grasp on what you can really get from the other person.

[FDG]

Whether my conflictors are INFjs or ISFps, I've never been in the situation to conflict with them.

[FDG]

my dad is my conflict (LII) and i was in love with a boy who was an LII for a while too. It's weird how something always comes up that screws everything up. It's almost as if it doesn't have as much to do with us as it does with external situations... Ummm ok some things that piss me off about them/us:

- Always bring up sensitive/sore subjects with me that I really don't want to talk about. That just irks me. I guess it's their lack of or something idk...

- Always giving me shit to "get in control of my emotions"... it's a big deal with them...

- Always calling me out if i exaggerate or something in a story for dramatic effect- that couldn't have happened like that... ohhh sorry, just trying to make everyone laugh!

- As smart as they are, they can be so closed-minded... it's really rather odd and drives me crazy.

Idk, i mean ive learned to live with it so it's really not that bad. One weird experience (i think i posted this somewhere else on the forum) my dad and i were watching tv together and just started bashing eachother out of the blue "Why are you like this?" "Why do you do that?" and then afterwards sat in the awkward silence following this confrontation... surprisingly, it was more comfortable during the fight and afterwards than before... it was like OK so we just confirmed our relationship once again haha.

For supervision however, I love my supervisor. They're able to help me with my weak points without me feeling like they're talking down to me such as the case with my conflict. I like their advice because it helps me better myself.

...are you sure you're not EIE?

haha very... i dont have a bone of in me

I also think that about myself simply because I don't value it. I think that you undeniably value , but I also suspect you value > (in fact, you have specifically devalued in the post I quoted).

Look. She's a fucking SF, and emotivist. Need to say anything more? When are you going to stop your crusade for making everybody not-Te?

[discourse]

I can't stand ISFjs. Most of them are really bad people. They are closed, don't like no-one, their social life goes around cultivating mistrust to everione. I specially don't like Ne- ISFjs, those who like to use their PoLR to show off how Alpha they are. But instead they talk bullikaka with their really weak intuition.

[aestrivex]

no but i just really don't feel like going through this all again... id rather have more intellectually-stimulating conversations rather than to be constantly defending who i am when it's clear as day.

Except that it's not.

QFT. i want to make this very clear to you: you might be SEE, but one thing you are certainly not is an obvious case.

[Blaze]

I can't stand ISFjs. Most of them are really bad people. They are closed, don't like no-one, their social life goes around cultivating mistrust to everione. I specially don't like Ne- ISFjs, those who like to use their PoLR to show off how Alpha they are. But instead they talk bullikaka with their really weak intuition.

the ones who maintain a rigid judgmental attitude about ethics are hard for me to deal with. or who seem to purposefully devalue ideas and possibilities.

you know what though? i have an isfj friend who despite our conflict relation has helped me understand Christian spiritual concepts and has done so in a nonjudgmental way. so in a way she exemplified Christian beliefs: she delivered the Christian message in a Christian way to a person she may have felt she had to forgive (me) for all my Fi polr stuff. pretty cool. she earned my respect.