Favorable intertype relationships besides duality

[eunice]

In your experience, which relations have been considered positive and successful in terms of dating, friendship and marriage? I don't want to concentrate too much on the concept of duality because I have recently begun to realize that I don't necessarily get along with every dual I have met.

[Blaze]

i'd say activity, semi-dual, illusionary, identity; benefit can be OK depending. not sure about identity though since i haven't experienced that in a romantic relationship.

[Jarno]

The inner quadra relationships are the best according to my own experiences, to socionics descriptions and to a topic I once started on this forum.

[FDG]

Supervisor-Supervisee, but exclusively in the positivist rings.

[BLauritson]

Marriage I can't comment on since I've never been married (I'm a bit too young for that yet IMOAMOO (In My Opinion And My Opinion Only)). Dating.. I've had a failed past relationship with an INFj (my beneficiary) and am currently in a relationship with my dual. Friendship.. well, my closest friend is my dual, but I'm also pretty good friends with people of the following types, in no particular order:

- ISTp (my look-a-like) (assuming I've typed this particular friend correctly, although it seems the most likely at the moment)
- ESTp (my semi-dual)
- ENFp (my illusionary)
- ISFj (my activity)
- ENTj (my mirror)
- INTp (my identical)
- ESFj (my conflictor) (yes, conflictors can get along under certain circumstances. There's an INFj and an ESTp sat opposite eachother in my office, they get along pretty well. You can tell they're completely opposite personalities though. I think maturity is a factor in being able to get along with theoretically conflicting types)

And I've been friends in the past with people of the following types:

- ENTp (my contrary)
- ISFp (my super-ego)
- INFp (my comparative)

I think that's it.

[anndelise]

I think it would depend more on what you want from a partner/friend/lover/spouse.
Would you want someone to support you (not talking financial)? compliment you? push you? be a team partner? do what you do? etc etc etc

For myself, i wanted someone who wouldn't be affected much by my idiosyncracies and who could relatively easily overlook my faults. I also need lots of Si. So for me, SiFe (semi-dual) has worked out very well. (but then, i didn't even know about socionics when we first began seeing each other, so his type wasn't part of my decision.)

In the past i had dated a few enfps (identicals). Fun relationships, but having similar faults seemed to compound the problems.

[PotatoSpirit]

Supervisor-Supervisee, but exclusively in the positivist rings.

I second this (c:

[Suomea]

Which one's the positivist ring?

[BLauritson]

ISTj->ESFp->INFj->ENTp->ISTj->...
and:
ENTj->INFp->ESFj->ISTp->ENFj->...

[redbaron]

I'm an INFp married to ESFj so I'm his supervisor. Happily married for 13+ years. I also know good marriages that are benefit (one couple for 20 years, the other for 40 years), dual (one dual couple for 18 years and the other for 11 years), mirror (13 years), activity (11 years) and comparative (11 years). The best of those being dual. With both dual couples I haven't seen (outwardly anyway) any problems. The others have had issues/problems through the years that they've shared with me or that were more obvious but they have all been generally happy. Marriage is work though if you're serious about sticking with it for the long haul. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[Megan]

I too have seen relations of supervision work better than predicted, even with ISFj/ESTp.
I should start a topic on illusionary relations. What I have seen of them is gradually leading me to think they are silently destructive especially in the way of personal ambition.

[ScarlettLux]

Supervisor-Supervisee, but exclusively in the positivist rings.

Weird... why is this?

[redbaron]

Supervisor-Supervisee, but exclusively in the positivist rings.

Weird... why is this?

Negativists potentially depress each other more than usual in such circumstances.

I just realized that my in-laws have a supervisory marriage with my MIL (ENFp) superivising my FIL (ISFj) and although they have been married 40 years, they definitely do depress each other and the marriage as a whole is not something I would want to be a part of. She gets angry with him and he digs in his heels with a quiet stubbornness so therefore they end up going about their separate lives, avoiding confrontation on the issues that set them off. They do take care of each other, health-wise (or I should say, he takes care of her--she is in poor health and he is fine) and he's very devoted in a practical way but I cannot feel much true affection between them at this point.

[Ms. Kensington]

for long term friendships: mirror, benefit partners, supervision partners, activity, possibly superego

for romantic: activity, maybe supervision, identical, semidual, look-a-like

[redbaron]

I have yet to meet an identical romantic pair. How would that work? Would one of them take on the role of the dual? How would anything get done? I'm just not sure of that one. I guess because I've never seen it in real life.

[Ms. Kensington]

yeah it's written i believe at socionics.com that in an identical pair, one usually assumes the dual role.

[redbaron]

yeah it's written i believe at socionics.com that in an identical pair, one usually assumes the dual role.

I think that would be really interesting to see lived out.

[implied]

I too have seen relations of supervision work better than predicted, even with ISFj/ESTp.
I should start a topic on illusionary relations. What I have seen of them is gradually leading me to think they are silently destructive especially in the way of personal ambition.

i have actually noticed this, too. i hope you start this topic as i've observed about the same thing. in this way, i sort of think they are some of the worst relations around.

[Blaze]

I too have seen relations of supervision work better than predicted, even with ISFj/ESTp.
I should start a topic on illusionary relations. What I have seen of them is gradually leading me to think they are silently destructive especially in the way of personal ambition.

i have actually noticed this, too. i hope you start this topic as i've observed about the same thing. in this way, i sort of think they are some of the worst relations around.

wow. i totally disagree. i'm in an illusionary relationship right now and it is going pretty well. but yeah start a topic.

[ScarlettLux]

Totally disagree with Illusionary bashing as well.

[UDP]

This thread should further illustrate that a person's psych type only has so much to do with how people get along.


Looking for relationships that are "just as good" or offer the same potential is not really that much different than looking for a dual relationship itself - you are still creating a category within socionics to try to determine whether it 'will work out or not'

The general notion of this thread is compromised.

[Blaze]

@courage: so you'd likely say to use socionics more as a way of understanding the relationships you already naturally find yourself in, i take it.

i recently heard of a conflictor couple (infp-estj) who got divorced after 10 years or so. i couldn't help but feel bad for them. most people would want to avoid this situation if they could.

[Suomea]

I kinda want to date my conflictor just to see what it's like.

[UDP]

@courage: so you'd likely say to use socionics more as a way of understanding the relationships you already naturally find yourself in, i take it.

What I would really say is you ought to take responsibility for both knowing yourself, and knowing the other person.


Saying "gee I had some bad experiences with my dual, what other relations work out" is somewhat of a contradiction is it not?
Why one relation over another?
Clearly there is more in play here than intertype relations.


Now, myself, do I know what works best for me? Yes. Socionics can help you identify your wants and needs, and yes, even augment relationships and improve them through understanding. However, one thing you cannot change is someone's inherent psychological nature, so it is a factor to be kept in mind.

That being said, you can say it would be extremely unlikely for me to be with an ESTp, ESFp, ISTj, INTp, or INFp. Those types, just by sheer consequence of preferences, are not people I gravitate towards in terms of relationships. Does this mean I am going to run away from them whenever I see them? Absolutely not. But I'm going to be honest with myself about what I'm looking for.

Somewhere else someone asked "does socionics influence your relationship prospects?". I said absolutely, yes. I don't see how you can just turn off your understanding of socionics, if you really see it as real or having real influence.

[ScarlettLux]

I kinda want to date my conflictor just to see what it's like.

Scary shit.

[Blaze]

I kinda want to date my conflictor just to see what it's like.

Scary shit.

yeah. like bend over and take it like a man then. hewwwww hahahaha

i absolutely cannot imagine a worse thing to do than try to be in a romantic relationship with my conflict.

[XoX]

I kinda want to date my conflictor just to see what it's like.

Start by throwing around some arguments with discojoe and perhaps you get the idea.

[EllaC]

It's sold that your dual is the ideal romantic relationship. But what about other relations? In all of your lovely experience, which relations appear most in relationships?

I've decided I hate my dual more than any type, as for the first time they come out top, and I bottom. Perhaps my own typing, and their typing is wrong. But I don't think so.

[Expat]

It's sold that your dual is the ideal romantic relationship. But what about other relations? In all of your lovely experience, which relations appear most in relationships?

In terms of how often I have observed them, I think mirror and duality are more common than the others. But not by much. Benefit seems to be very common too.

I've decided I hate my dual more than any type, as for the first time they come out top, and I bottom. Perhaps my own typing, and their typing is wrong. But I don't think so.

Perhaps you can say what is it about your dual that you hate so much?

[EllaC]

In terms of how often I have observed them, I think mirror and duality are more common than the others. But not by much. Benefit seems to be very common too.




Perhaps you can say what is it about your dual that you hate so much?

Benefit... hmm, really? So perhaps in my case, ESTj or ENFj... hmm, maybe ENFj is good. Not sure though!

They just annoy me so much. Like, I know I'm always safe, I can always outsmart other types and win their affections because I figure out what is neccessary. The SEI captures my interest, and then, after a brief period moves on, and then I'm left thinking wow, I want this, but they've gone!! Maybe it's my wrong typing on both occassions... just annoys me!!

[Sirena]

I've decided I hate my dual more than any type, as for the first time they come out top, and I bottom. Perhaps my own typing, and their typing is wrong. But I don't think so.

This is exactly how I feel if I am in fact INFp!

[diljs]

Benefit... hmm, really? So perhaps in my case, ESTj or ENFj... hmm, maybe ENFj is good. Not sure though!

ESTj is nice for us, boring for them. ENFjs I do not enjoy.

They just annoy me so much. Like, I know I'm always safe, I can always outsmart other types and win their affections because I figure out what is neccessary. The SEI captures my interest, and then, after a brief period moves on, and then I'm left thinking wow, I want this, but they've gone!! Maybe it's my wrong typing on both occassions... just annoys me!!

I have this problem with SEI too. Like I finally realize they're cool and then they've run away/closed off. It seems impossible for an SEI and ILE to get together, because the ILE doesn't notice SEI or quits trying too quickly if the SEI fails to respond, and the SEI is so freaking indecisive and careful. They're too good at telling you what you want to hear, and it takes way too long to get through to the "real" person.

[Charismatik]

ESTj is nice for us, boring for them. ENFjs I do not enjoy.



I have this problem with SEI too. Like I finally realize they're cool and then they've run away/closed off. It seems impossible for an SEI and ILE to get together, because the ILE doesn't notice SEI or quits trying too quickly if the SEI fails to respond, and the SEI is so freaking indecisive and careful. They're too good at telling you what you want to hear, and it takes way too long to get through to the "real" person.

Really? Huh, I can see it now that you mention it... I guess I'm kind of guilty of this. I almost dated an ENTp a few months ago, but this seems to be what happened to it and kept it from being realized.

I'll admit, we SEIs are tricky. I know that I'm fairly moody, and one semi-wrong move can set you back legions of "work" getting to know one of us and making us feel safe. It's the emphasis on being in the moment that was have- we don't freak out because you did one thing wrong, we freak out because it signals to us that things may be taking a turn for the worse... and sometimes, that we should therefore just emotionally pull out before it gets any worse. It's not fair, but a few consecutive turns near the beginning can essentially 'ruin' it.

I'm not saying this makes it okay, but hopefully this sheds a little light.

[Rubicon]

I have this problem with SEI too. Like I finally realize they're cool and then they've run away/closed off. It seems impossible for an SEI and ILE to get together, because the ILE doesn't notice SEI or quits trying too quickly if the SEI fails to respond, and the SEI is so freaking indecisive and careful. They're too good at telling you what you want to hear, and it takes way too long to get through to the "real" person.

Speaking from my experience, I wouldn't open up to someone who doesn't make me feel safe enough to do so. If the guy's all effusive one minute and indifferent the next, I'd be stupid not to be careful. You have to be somewhat consistent about your interest.

[diljs]

(these comments are not personally directed at either of you, just my general frustrations)

I'll admit, we SEIs are tricky. I know that I'm fairly moody, and one semi-wrong move can set you back legions of "work" getting to know one of us and making us feel safe. It's the emphasis on being in the moment that was have- we don't freak out because you did one thing wrong, we freak out because it signals to us that things may be taking a turn for the worse... and sometimes, that we should therefore just emotionally pull out before it gets any worse. It's not fair, but a few consecutive turns near the beginning can essentially 'ruin' it.

I'm not saying this makes it okay, but hopefully this sheds a little light.

I totally don't mind the moodiness, indeed i dig it, but I just can't walk on eggshells. I'm going to say stuff and make mistakes, and I have to know what I did, I suck at reading your minds. I think the Fe should make it obvious, but then i find out underneath there were 16 more layers of feelings to the situation and I'm going "Seriously? Why didn't you say something?"

Speaking from my experience, I wouldn't open up to someone who doesn't make me feel safe enough to do so. If the guy's all effusive one minute and indifferent the next, I'd be stupid not to be careful. You have to be somewhat consistent about your interest.

I have a completely open attitude and posture, unchanging demeanor towards people (you talked to me, we're friends now right?), and a natural enthusiasm at what SEIs have to say. I simply do not judge anything you guys do negatively, I'm cool with whatever SEIs (and anyone for that matter) does, that's just how they roll. What else can I do to make you comfortable? Candy and Shinies?

[redbaron]

yeah SEIs can be tricky cause they're sensitive and can be jumpy when it comes to reading other's emotions. I was friends with an SEI and one time I was feeling tired and not as effusive as usual and he totally thought I was mad at him or something and completely withdrew (and that was a non-romantic relationship!). It was odd but I figured it out and cleared things up with him the next day which I think he appreciated.

[Rubicon]

I totally don't mind the moodiness, indeed i dig it, but I just can't walk on eggshells. I'm going to say stuff and make mistakes, and I have to know what I did, I suck at reading your minds. I think the Fe should make it obvious, but then i find out underneath there were 16 more layers of feelings to the situation and I'm going "Seriously? Why didn't you say something?"

I wouldn't say something about an issue that bothered me if I thought bringing it up would be more trouble than it's worth. Or that I would hurt you needlessly by doing so. But if a guy told me that he wouldn't be offended by me letting him know about small issues, then I would be more open about them.

I have a completely open attitude and posture, unchanging demeanor towards people (you talked to me, we're friends now right?), and a natural enthusiasm at what SEIs have to say. I simply do not judge anything you guys do negatively, I'm cool with whatever SEIs (and anyone for that matter) does, that's just how they roll. What else can I do to make you comfortable? Candy and Shinies?

It's not necessarily about feeling comfortable. You have to be pointed enough about your interest for me (personally anyway) to open up to you. If you act the same towards everyone, how am I to know you feel differently about me? Maybe put yourself out there a bit. Which I know is kind of hypocritical of me to say being that I have to feel 'safe'.... Someone has to do it though. :-)

[Suomea]

....

[Suomea]

...

[diljs]

It's not necessarily about feeling comfortable. You have to be pointed enough about your interest for me (personally anyway) to open up to you. If you act the same towards everyone, how am I to know you feel differently about me? Maybe put yourself out there a bit. Which I know is kind of hypocritical of me to say being that I have to feel 'safe'.... Someone has to do it though. :-)

Chicken and the egg concept really. Yeah SEIs make me comfortable, and I dig them, as far as I can tell ILE has to be really overconfident about the relationship (as we are in general) for the SEI to go "yeah okay that will work". The problem is I never know if SEIs are serious or just telling me what I want to hear, I don't want them to get into a relationship with me because they didn't want me to feel bad