INTJs-Revealing one's emotions

[joegeo2006]

As an INTJ, I have always had issues with my emotions. I am quite stoic and calm. I rarely show any emotion in public. Also, I tend to keep quiet around people unless I feel very comfortable.

Some of you have probably read my other post about my platonic friend.....the one whom I sincerely love, (but will never really blossom into anything else other that 'just friends').

I talked a lot with her about everything under the sun from my emotions to sex and marriage (hypotheticals). But I have had this weird feeling that I revealed too much of myself.

I have never had sex. Do other INTJ's feel that revealing themselves to others who they love is an act like sex? I know it sounds crazy. But since she left, I have had this sinking feeling that I 'revealed' way too much. In fact, I have done a lot of soul searching. To be honest there have been moments in the last few months where I just wanted to break down and cry because I was emotionally and intellectually attached to her. I let my emotions get in the way. And that is a mortal sin for an INTJ.

Bottom line: Have any INTJs been in a similar situation? Is this common for INTJ males than INTJ females?

[Zeia]

Yes, I've experienced this.

[Creepy-Fry]

.............

Bottom line: Have any INTJs been in a similar situation? Is this common for INTJ males than INTJ females?

yeah man, i feel for you. It is one of the hardest thing to do for an intj: we feel werid when we reveal ourself to the someone we dont know well.

But dont feel bad about revealing too much to that girl though, you are not together thats why u feel it was something u shouldnt' do, but you loved her a that moment thats why you did it.

Just forget about what happen, intj look into the future, and we will make sure this wont happen again...

[Creepy-fwhoever]

I have been in a similar for a few years. There's a guy I just cannot cut off emotionally and I don't know him all that well! I tell him everything about myself; all my feelings, my dreams. I used to have similar doubts about whether I'm doing something stupid, but that friend of mine is a reliable person and I just decide that it's okay (he's likely an INTj).

As an INTj, you are quite careful with selecting friends, your friend is likely like mine -- won't go around and gossip about you. But of course, don't get too carried away. Keep an eye open for potential real romantic relationships.

[INTJ]

Long post.

Hi Joegeo. Forgive me in advance if I lack some tact. I'm never very good at fluffing an answer that will seem harsh. When it comes to the game of love, only straightforward, honest answers (even if they seem harsh) will do. You'll find this fluff on those other message boards regarding love. Utterly useless. So you're asking about a type. I can tell you from my own perspective...

And before I start, remember someone is going to try to debate me. I don't mind, but its going to turn the thread off your topic. I am trying to explain my viewpoint as an INTj, but mainly as a guy. To some, these ideas seem awkward or biased or mean. Simply put, they work. They are proven.

As an INTJ
I have never had sex. Do other INTJ's feel that revealing themselves to others who they love is an act like sex?

I believe that men just don't understand women, period. It may be more true of a particular type than another. This is what they don't get and its amazingly simple.

1. Women dont give a crap about how you feel about them. Only your actions indicate that you are good. (Not about how you feel in general. There is a difference.) They ONLY care about how THEY feel about the both of you. And this is the guiding principle to a happy relationship. Women drive relationships. Their perception of a happy relationship makes or breaks you. And more often than not, the men ruin the relationship in the early stages by not shutting up. In the later stages, its anyones game. But I give a lot of blame to men. Remember women WANT to be in a relationship. Men usually F it up. Sorry, I'm not against men, I just know the trends. (Yeah. Yeah i do. K?)

2. Men, in the first few weeks of a relationship have to shut up. MYSTERY is the key to making a woman happy, because women improve their viewpoint on you by how much conflict you generate in them. Not bad conflict. Good conflict. The "staring at ceiling and fluttering her eyelashes and sighing" type of conflict. Without this, they dont grow their interest in you. You accomplish this first by being a good guy (not a nice guy. a good guy. Ill explain later). Next by being confident in yourself. And third, by being a mystery. The #1 way to ruin potential with a girl (type independent) is to start blabbing about your feelings. #1!

I dont care what girls tell you. I am on your side here. I know the truth. Girls with throw their arms up and complain. What a blah blah blah! But they don't even understand their own inner workings. Some do I should say. But most dont. It is a proven fact that women need this conflict or there aint no love. This is all predicated on the notion that she liked you first, out of the chute. If it was the other way around, its an uphill battle. Which means, be around girls that LIKE you.

When a girl still latches on to you despite being a blabbermouth, it indicates she is extremely desperate. And probably fat and/or ugly. Sorry, its the truth.

I know it sounds crazy. But since she left, I have had this sinking feeling that I 'revealed' way too much.

Amen.

In fact, I have done a lot of soul searching. To be honest there have been moments in the last few months where I just wanted to break down and cry because I was emotionally and intellectually attached to her.

I would be annoyed, wouldn't you? Triple that for a girl.

I let my emotions get in the way. And that is a mortal sin for an INTJ.

For a man, period.

Bottom line: Have any INTJs been in a similar situation? Is this common for INTJ males than INTJ females?

Yes, when I was younger and before I learned the truth. Once I did, I had a very active and very exciting love life. I am married now, but I married "the one". All the parameters fit. We certainly fight like anyone else, but this is a match.

Perhaps these rules were easier for me as an INT to absorb and commit to because they indicated (through acting or real) to remove your emotions.

But before I go I need to clarify the good guy versus nice guy. I can do this through example:


Nice guy on the first few dates: Holds the door for the girl. Sits her in her seat. Gives her compliments about her dress, her eyes, her hair. Brings her flowers. Tells her how interested HE is in her. Agrees to drop her and her friends off at the movie theater next weekend.

Good guy on the first few dates: Holds the door for the girl. Gives her (1) and ONLY (1) compliment. Pick your feature. BRINGS NO GIFTS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. Speaks nothing of his feelings for her, his hard life growing up, or why his mommy thinks he should shave his goatee. Nicely declines to drop her friends off. And most importantly. He makes her laugh.

This holds true for the first MONTH. After that, its ok to start expressing your feelings. (now that shes already fallen for you)

If you can be confident, shut up about your feelings, be good (not nice), and make her laugh? Then its a slam-dunk.

[Kirana]

actually, INTJ. although it is true that you do seem to lack tact in your delivery, the key points are correct IMHO as a woman. i will try to shed some light on why they are correct, though.

step no 1: women, if they are the nice, compassionate sort, DO care about how you feel about them. HOWEVER, if they're the sensible sort, they won't put so much weight on that. your actions will be what you are evaluated with. this is because, a man can say anything. the theory is, whether or not he is telling the truth (which he himself may not know exactly) shows up in his actions. so even if you're crumbling in emotional pain for love of her, if your actions aren't inspiring her with a lot of confidence as to your potential as a mate, your chances aren't that great. she's got to be crazy for you too.

step no 2: this is true. mystery will draw in a woman because women are curious. dole out your attractive traits and revelations in pieces so that by the time you ought to start telling her the rest of it, she already likes you and is interested. and also, by being slightly guarded and mysterious, you are implying that you don't share all your feelings with all and sundry, and that you have self-confidence, control and that you actually care a lot about how you first appear to her. in fact, if you start off by immediately revealing your feelings to her, she will wonder if you're desperate. it will seem sudden (never mind that you've been holding a torch for her for years, to her it will seem overnight) and she will question the sincerity of your feelings. this will encourage her to close up instead of open up.

AFTER that, though, women appreciate a lot of openness. be sure to give her this, but be sure to wait until she has started to respond to you. if in doubt, go with more patience. then she will feel special and loved. if you're conversationally challenged, do the openness thing in short bursts. that way, you get to tell her about how you feel but stop before you make an idiot out of yourself. i wholly agree on the making her laugh thing. if she's smiling with you, then that's a good sign.

but i disagree with INTJ on gifts. it is true, for some girls (like INTJ girls) lots of gifts mean nothing. but carefully selected gifts on a special occasion, especially if delivered imaginatively/romantically (depends on the girl's personality which she prefers), can be very very effective.

but please, always be sincere whatever you do. unfortunately it's true that total and open honesty may not work on every woman, but sincerity is something we all look for.

[INTJ]

Wow. Whoever finds/has found/will find you.. is l-l-l-lucky!!

[alex]

As far as revealing too much feeling, I'm not sure if INTjs really have that problem. Even when trying to be as open, straight-forward and honest, I get labeled as "hard to understand" (or put positively, naturally mysterious).

[Kirana]

hi INTJ. assuming the remark was meant for me, i'll let him know. :wink:

[Kreatuv]

Lesson for the day: Never tell a woman how you feel. She will gut you alive and laugh manically while she does it.

[Creepy-]

As far as revealing too much feeling, I'm not sure if INTjs really have that problem. Even when trying to be as open, straight-forward and honest, I get labeled as "hard to understand" (or put positively, naturally mysterious).

Yes exactly. I get this alot (from some girls).

Which is a combination of, Ok i dont understand/you are lame/ok can we talk about me now?

and thats why I like this edict: "Shut Up"

guys just do this

Which means "yeah, buddy. Whatever you say, kid"

[Creepy-]

hi INTJ. assuming the remark was meant for me, i'll let him know. :wink:

Absolutely!

[Kim]

Lesson for the day: Never tell a woman how you feel. She will gut you alive and laugh manically while she does it.

Oh, please! :wink:

[joegeo2006]

INTJ-Thank you for your viewpoints. They are much appreciated.
However, I must say that I followed most of what you recommended.

I only revealed my emotions in a letter I wrote to her after she had left for school. I always opened doors. And I seemed to always make her laugh. Plus, I didn't fawn over her. I didn't give her constant compliments. I think I only gave her about six compliments the whole eight and half months we were 'together'.

Also, I didn't give her sob stories about my life. I only told her one sob story and that was towards the end of our long road trip-the last two days of seeing her.

I think my only problem was that I was physically reserved. I am an INTJ and I have never like physical contact that much, not even from close family. That sounds crazy, considering that physical contact is a necessary agreement in a romantic relationship. I fault myself for that. I was completely wrapped up in my intellectual attraction to her that I completely neglected the physical part. She was giving me numerous physcial hints-and I certainly recognized that. (In her response to my letter she said that I should have made my 'move'-she was waiting. She went on to say that I am filled with doubt). I think some of it is doubt. But I also think some of it is my personality.

I will be seeing her for Christmas break. It will be hard, because I still have feelings for her. I realize that it is too late to start anything now. But she will always be a part of me. (I thought I was getting over her, but I still love her for who she is). I just wish that I had had the guts to ignore my personality traits and act like a red-blooded male. I learned my lesson.

Bottom line: I had gone through high school and college thinking that I was unattractive because I was a sterotypical nerd. I thought I was socially unacceptable. But after being with her, I realize that I am attractive. I realize that I have what it takes to be in a relationship. To other INTJs outhere, it is possible. It just will take some time for me to work out the kinks in my personality.

joegeo

[joegeo2006]

Kirana, thanks for your advice as well.

I really didnt' give her gifts. However, I am a film fanatic. I let her borrow some of my more sentimental movies. I let her see some of the films that mean a lot to me. She seemed to appreciate that.

I do remember her getting me a gift later in the summer. It was an old book she had found at an antique store. It dealt with one of my favorite subjects. I was very happy that she remembered my interests.

Side note about books: I love books. And she does to. I remember one evenings discussion at a diner we ate at. I had mentioned how much I liked the smell of old books, you know-an old dusty smell. She laughed and said that she like that smell as well. (I am getting way too silly now, but that discussion did take place). It was little things like that that I appreciate.

I know that most INTJ are not too sentimental. But there are a few things that are very sentimental to me. And I don't let but a few people know things like that. I felt that I trusted her enough to let her in on them. (She revealed her self too).
I really connected with this person on an intellectual and emotional level. I should have realized that all good things must come to an end.

joegeo

[joegeo2006]

I don't know if mentioned this, but I think she is an ESFJ. I don't know that for sure, but she did score a TWO on the enneagram test. (I scored a five).

[Creepy-ChristiRB]

step no 1: women, if they are the nice, compassionate sort, DO care about how you feel about them. HOWEVER, if they're the sensible sort, they won't put so much weight on that. your actions will be what you are evaluated with. this is because, a man can say anything. the theory is, whether or not he is telling the truth (which he himself may not know exactly) shows up in his actions. so even if you're crumbling in emotional pain for love of her, if your actions aren't inspiring her with a lot of confidence as to your potential as a mate, your chances aren't that great. she's got to be crazy for you too.

Hmm...not sure I buy this. I have always put A LOT of weight on what men say. I am starting to realize that I may need to look at their actions b/c men are more action-oriented in communication than women are.

Sorry to derail.

[Creepy-]

I don't know if mentioned this, but I think she is an ESFJ. I don't know that for sure, but she did score a TWO on the enneagram test. (I scored a five).

Awww <3 That's a good match. ^_^

[Creepy-]

As an INTJ, I have always had issues with my emotions. I am quite stoic and calm. I rarely show any emotion in public. Also, I tend to keep quiet around people unless I feel very comfortable.

Some of you have probably read my other post about my platonic friend.....the one whom I sincerely love, (but will never really blossom into anything else other that 'just friends').

I talked a lot with her about everything under the sun from my emotions to sex and marriage (hypotheticals). But I have had this weird feeling that I revealed too much of myself.

I have never had sex. Do other INTJ's feel that revealing themselves to others who they love is an act like sex? I know it sounds crazy. But since she left, I have had this sinking feeling that I 'revealed' way too much. In fact, I have done a lot of soul searching. To be honest there have been moments in the last few months where I just wanted to break down and cry because I was emotionally and intellectually attached to her. I let my emotions get in the way. And that is a mortal sin for an INTJ.

Bottom line: Have any INTJs been in a similar situation? Is this common for INTJ males than INTJ females?

You are certainly a young one, but yes I've been there you arn't alone.

[Creepy-]

I'm curious as to what other people think about this, because, based on my own experiences.... well... I won't say it right now.

I've heard and read in a few places that INTjs can struggle with emotional situations and relationships that get more and more deeply interpersonal, but I was wondering if anyone could elaborate on it or link some articles, etc.

4. Somewhat tender and capricious. His self-sacrifice in defending justice becomes especially mind-boggling, if one knows that he feels irritated by everything that disturbs silence and the measured way of his life. He is very concerned about living healthy. Thusly Rene Descartes "considered health as the principal of mortal goods second to the Truth". In his youth he often tends to a cheerful lifestyle with many friends, games of chance, booze. Later he comes to the conclusion that all those things are something other than what he really needs. He is not very ambitious but he does not tolerate when others get ahead of him in their career, out of the same feeling of justice. He finds himself in an especially hard situation when having to obey a boss whom he does not respect.

http://www.socioniko.net/en/1.1.types/index-type.html

Relating that to relationships...

the only thing I can say right now is that the idea of tenderness is both enticing, yet somewhat painful, too. Maybe it is just because I have baggage from the past or something, I don't know.

[Creepy-]

I don't know about you, but my LII friend seems to set himself up for disappointment in relationships. It seems like he expects every relationship to be special and lasting, where most of his peers don't share the sentiment. After all, they are late-teens/early-20's and want to party and stuff. So, when he gets into a relationship he is often disappointed and heart-broken.

Also, he doesn't give people much of a chance. If they don't instantly grab his attention he won't give them the time of day. Once he has formed his opinion of you, it is very hard to change it (even if his opinion is shown to be unjustified).

He never forgets the wrong-doings. No matter how good you might have been to him (as friend or lover), do one thing wrong and he won't speak to you again.

I'm not sure if all LIIs are this extreme, but that's what my friend does, anyway.

[Creepy-]

I am similar


I will also say...
there is a certain pain that comes with close to someone, and in my more initial experience of it, I ended up faltering completely. To put it in loose terms, my imagination overrode my rationality, and somehow I became vulnerable in it all, and everything was somewhat horrible for a while. It was a tremendous learning experience, no doubt.

But it's just weird.

It's like everything gets sapped. I am rememberind something I read...

Personal relationships, particularly romantic ones, can be the INTJ's Achilles heel. While they are capable of caring deeply for others (usually a select few), and are willing to spend a great deal of time and effort on a relationship, the knowledge and self-confidence that make them so successful in other areas can suddenly abandon or mislead them in interpersonal situations.

Rehashing some old things, I was just thinking about some conflicting ideas
- having a good realtionship with someone seems like a worthy goal
- intimacy, tenderness, depth of relationship is a good thing
- I've realized I do have feelings, and I am capable of actually experiecing them
- but at the same time, when I get in emotional situations of great interpersonal depth,I can be in a very weakened state


I guess that's typical for everyone, to be "vulnerable" and all that.
But... ......


Hmm, I guess it's just an uncofortable subject all together
(go figure)

[Park]

...my LII friend seems to set himself up for disappointment in relationships. It seems like he expects every relationship to be special and lasting, where most of his peers don't share the sentiment. After all, they are late-teens/early-20's and want to party and stuff. So, when he gets into a relationship he is often disappointed and heart-broken.

Also, he doesn't give people much of a chance. If they don't instantly grab his attention he won't give them the time of day. Once he has formed his opinion of you, it is very hard to change it (even if his opinion is shown to be unjustified).

He never forgets the wrong-doings. No matter how good you might have been to him (as friend or lover), do one thing wrong and he won't speak to you again.

I don't know about other INTjs (or ISTps) but that's very typical of myself. Especially the last sentence. Well, ok, I 've become more tolerant over the years after being dissapointed by every single person I know, but still that's how I would naturally feel and tend to behave.

[flower]

Yeah, I think ISTp's are no different in this regard, both types struggle with interpersonal relationships and dating etc.

I personally think this has a lot to do with the inborn temperament of these types not being fully compatible with the unwritten rules of wider society. There are so many preassures on people from society to act and behave in certain ways regarding interpersonal relationships, that people who are fairly reserved, passive, non-confrontational, and who have lower than average social skills often as a result of this, get hindered in forming these relationships that may otherwise be an easy natural thing. Although we are all subject to these social norms, INTj's and ISTp's find them much harder to deal with as it goes against there natural temperament and causes a lot of anxiety.

I also think this is more common and true for males than females, because society dictates that it's the male who makes the 1st move and it's the males job to impress the female enough to prove himself worthy, and the female holds the stance of 'I accept you', or 'I reject you', the power more often than not, in our politically correct society gives the power in an intimate relationship to the female. I say this because of studdies and surveys I have read about (1 example is a large study showed that 70% of break ups are initiated by the female in america) and I am an example of similar things myself. Never have I initiated a relationship myself, luckily for me I rely on guys to do this for me, what I would do if I were male I don't know, be single most of my life probably!.

[FDG]

. No matter how good you might have been to him (as friend or lover), do one thing wrong and he won't speak to you again.

This approach is no better than the party-goer, cheater one.

[schrödinger's cat]

I don't know about you, but my LII friend seems to set himself up for disappointment in relationships. It seems like he expects every relationship to be special and lasting...

Also, he doesn't give people much of a chance. If they don't instantly grab his attention he won't give them the time of day. Once he has formed his opinion of you, it is very hard to change it (even if his opinion is shown to be unjustified).

He never forgets the wrong-doings.

The INTj I know is like that too. She is very idealistic about relationships and friendships. It has to be deep and meaningful, and she doesn't have much time for little things like chit-chat etc. In a proper friendship, such things should be transcended. This means she often neglects stuff other types find important... meaningless small-talk, writing cards, answering e-mails on time, all that... she thinks it's small and stupid stuff and that people who need that are small and stupid. There's a certain risk in that of being seen as arrogant or rude.

She makes very strong, decisive judgments about people. It IS really hard to change her mind about someone. If she were always right this wouldn't be that much of a problem... but she's also capable of jumping to conclusions (e.g. because someone superficialy reminds her of someone else).

And if she disapproves of a person or a thing someone does, she makes no effort to hide that. There's honesty in that. But of course it can also seem rude, or cold, or arrogant. It probably depends on the person. My used-to-be-friend was probably a bit extreme. She wouldn't even confront the person about their behaviour: she'd just show them clearly that she despised them, and then she'd either ignore them or "punish" them with a cynical remark calculated to hit the other person's weak spots.

If you add all those things up, then the outcome is this - she'll sometimes "be rude to" someone "out of the blue, for no apparent reason". That's how it looks like to outsiders, her tendency to judge people and then to ignore them. Her disdain for smalltalk sometimes makes her seem inaccessible, forbidding and aloof, sometimes even arrogant. And since she doesn't sweat the small stuff, she can sometimes do things that seem tactless or inconsiderate or rude. It can be hurtful if she happens to neglect something that would have mattered to you a lot (like someone in your family dies and she forgets to send a card or write an e-mail or ring up).

All this is a shame, because it makes some people totally misjudge her. She isn't "cold and aloof" at all. She's very capable of sincere and genuine friendships. People do matter to her. And her social blunders are just that; they aren't intentional or anything - she's often not even aware of what exactly it is she's doing.

[xiuxiu]

our dicks are too huge. it's a physical impossibility.

[Creepy-]

She wouldn't even confront the person about their behaviour: she'd just show them clearly that she despised them, and then she'd either ignore them or "punish" them with a cynical remark calculated to hit the other person's weak spots.

That is totally what my friend does... it's scary how easily he gets to that point

[science as magic]

@FDG agreed

@flower You said it perfectly. This is why I am trying to become more "Se."

[flower]

Good luck with that pedro :wink:

[joseph2505]

Can someone tell me how an INTJ can have succesful relationships . Or is it recommended to fully detach from others & concentrate on strengths .

[Mariano Rajoy]

you cannot have successful relationships, even with your dual. the best you can hope for is to become a man-whore.

[jewels]

Of course INTJs can have successful relationships! Just focus on your strenghts and don't compare yourself to others. I have an INTJ friend who is so awesome. It's just a matter of running into people you click with. Even though she's introverted, she's learned to go out and do some fun activities and meet people.

[snowyc]

INTj's being "rationalists" at heart should discover and apply formulae for real-world success. With the dominance of Introverted Thinking, the book on life is being written and rewritten every time a new or existing problem encountered and hopefully solved.

The more problems solved, the more comprehensive this mental library of books and the easier life becomes. The more problems evaded, the less comprehensive the library and the harder life becomes corresponding with "INTj" happiness - metaphorically speaking.

[FDG]

INTj's being "rationalists" at heart should discover and apply formulae for real-world success.

Yeah yeah yeah formulae.

[alex]

practice showing affection and taking the initiative

[snowyc]

I met an ESFj recently on a date, i seem to have no difficulties in saying my goodbyes with a hug and kiss which I enjoyed greatly with no Se anxiety.

[UDP]

I met an ESFj recently on a date, i seem to have no difficulties in saying my goodbyes with a hug and kiss which I enjoyed greatly with no Se anxiety.

Yeah, that's how I am aroud the person I was thinking of, too.

I'm doubting her ESFjness, though...... we'll see. She does things based on inspiration and excitement, though, even though she is conservative.

I also realized that a relative of mine is ESFj. To an extreme.

I may have been incorrect about typing my grandparents, though. It may be ENTp / INTp. My grandfather is not depressed though, and has the classic "Intj who doesn't say anything more than what is neccessary" thing. So maybe it's ENTp / INTj. Their upbringing could be the link that holds the conflict together.

........hmm.........

Maybe my grandmother is j, though.... I'm not sure. I can't think about this right now. more to do. back later.

[jessabelle]

Can someone tell me how an INTJ can have succesful relationships . Or is it recommended to fully detach from others & concentrate on strengths .

It's important to have successful relationships, but only if they feel real to you. So the best thing to do is probably to meet people of similar temperments, and work on it from there. It's a challenge for me as well.

[ataronchronon]

it seems like every time I talk to someone new, try something different, learn something about someone, or basically do anything new, it's like I've just performed an experiment and now I have lots of "data" to "analyze." It can be pretty exciting sometimes. Today I *just* learned that if a girl starts complaining about how quiet I am, she's actually "interested" in me. I'm no expert by any means, but I'm learning, and the only way for me to learn is by treating everything like a grand experiment. It can be quite a rush at times, but I have to be careful not to become overwhelmed. Running into one of my limits as an INTj is a very painful and depressing experience, but I guess it must be done.