anybody see any? i do.
for example, i get along much better with female esfp's than male esfp's. but with enfp's, i get along better with male enfp's than female. just as a couple examples.
if we notice this, what is our explanation?
Gender differences in intertype relations
anybody see any? i do.
for example, i get along much better with female esfp's than male esfp's. but with enfp's, i get along better with male enfp's than female. just as a couple examples.
if we notice this, what is our explanation?
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Get along better with Female ESFp, ENFp, INFp, ESTp, ENFj, ISTj, maybe slightly INTj, INFj.
Get along better with Male ENTp marginally, ENTj, ESTj, ISTp though marginally, INTp marginally.
About equal ISFj, ESFj, ISFp but for different reasons for each.
Suomea
this is kind of a long shot but maybe this is all caused by our expectations of how men and women should behave. for instance, i'm much more interested in knowing or even approaching female ENfp's than the male ones. not trying to badmouth anybody here, but guys who seem more friendly than the norm make my skin crawl.
anyways, in this society, whether we like it or not, there are some evident gender differences. despite women's advancements, there is still a gap between them and men, and some of it might even be perceived as natural or fitting. perhaps the problems encountered in intertype relations can be magnified or smoothed out depending on the gender. in any case, i personally can't explain it from a strictly socionics viewpoint.
IEI - the nasty kind...
I have been watching if I could spot any differences, but they aren't clearly visible.
I would say my relationship with a type don't depend on gender.
Interpersonal relations are going to be influenced by sex. That's just biology. Someone is either a potential mate, potential competition for a mate, or both.
Intertype relations and interpersonal relations occur simultaneously, so there are bound to be differences in how we get along with people of different sexes in different intertype relations in different environments/situations.
yes...i'm wondering if there are any correlations with socionics intertype relations. like for me there's not much of a correlation with ethics, really. for some ethical types i prefer women but others men.
according to gender stereotype, as little red riding hood says, you would expect to prefer women to be ethical types and men to be logical types. but such is not the case with me.
like for infj, i prefer women to men. for istj, no preference although i know many more female istj's. for intj's, no preference. for esfj's and isfp's i think no preference.
so dunno maybe a gender difference or preference predicts either an improved or worsening socionics relation?
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
I expect nothing of the sort.
Anyways...
How big is your sampling of each gender of these types?
There are far too many variables involved... culture and other environmental differences, work or social differences of interest, level of attractiveness, available vs. taken, other people of the same or opposite sex around (competition), age, maturity, personality, etc.
weird. because of her angry avatar, everytime i read Joy's posts i imagine she's yelling. are you a yeller Joy?
IEI - the nasty kind...
An 8w7 is by definition a yeller.Originally Posted by little red riding hood
it's always about you isn't it joy? read what i said: according to gender stereotype.
just because you can't get your Te mind around all the possibilities doesn't mean this discussion can't be meaningful. lol.
my sample is very small indeed...hence the purpose of the thread. in case you were wondering, this is how new ideas come forth...from looking at smaller correlations to see if there are bigger correlations....then structuring what you see there. i know, it's a stretch for ya :wink:
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
I've noticed that Ne types varies greatly when it comes to gender differences. I don't know why. They are probably most likely to divide and fit into the gender stereotypes, ime.
I think Im similar to you, in the sense that im a guy and think the opposite - so in terms of preferring logic over ethics in women.... in friendships now that I think about it I even prefer logic in men. I find that T types stabilize my mood whereas F types make me instable, and, in terms of F girls, i already know all the stupid F-type tricks so when they pull that shit on me I poke fun of their tactics, which as a guy Im expected to dumbly fall into. I dont like fitting into stereotypes of how a guy is typically supposed to act and also I really dont get along with stereotypical girls (i.e. ESFjs). Some people act in a -trained- way more than others, I see their behaviour as a means of obtaining a convenient impression from another person, but a lot of these -trained- gender characteristics are also really stupid, counter-productive, and lead to intimacy problems as they get people too busy trying to be something theyre not. Also I need to talk about provocative things a lot with others. And ethical types, especially females, are more likely to get offended whilst being simultaneously 100x more sensitive and unforgiving to anyone that insults their intelligence (especially if they have a pretty face because theyre used to being told what they want to hear instead of whats real) I expect people to be open to new opinions and to change their worldview if provided with all the credible information to do so. With F types any relation always is good until we both happen to be in a bad mood at the same time. also when F types try to manipulate my emotions Im aware of it and am prone to respond by criticizing their belief system i.e. if they think that abortion is inherently -immoral- ill indirectly hack at the root of it because its stupid and doesnt make any sense.
I get along with NFs of both genders but only in groups. Of the 9 people id call friends -meaning i still plan to know them 5 years from now- only 2 are Fs (ENFj, INFj), 4 are NTs (ENTj, INTp, INTj, ENTp) and 3 are STs (all ESTps).
INFp-Ni
lol yeah
And this is a topic that pisses me off faster than any other topic does.
hm.. not me. I think female and male entps are quite similar. enfps.. maybe more different ime. lol they all seem the same i guess. I guess i am gender blind
actually, i have not met many male Esfps, and currently I think I like male ISFjs better than female ones. I get along better with female ENTjs than male ones. I think the male ENTjs expect me to be more feminine or something. I'm sure the sex of the person matters to me in some of these cases, as I am pretty traditional er physically so they would align with some people's expectations of gender.
damn Blaze bitchslapped Joy! That's hot! GO DUAL!!!it's always about you isn't it joy? read what i said: according to gender stereotype.
just because you can't get your Te mind around all the possibilities doesn't mean this discussion can't be meaningful. lol.
my sample is very small indeed...hence the purpose of the thread. in case you were wondering, this is how new ideas come forth...from looking at smaller correlations to see if there are bigger correlations....then structuring what you see there. i know, it's a stretch for ya :wink:
i know exactly one male ESFp and he is seriously one of the most sarcastic people i have ever met in my life. hilarious. also no gender expectations on his part.hm.. not me. I think female and male entps are quite similar. enfps.. maybe more different ime. lol they all seem the same i guess. I guess i am gender blind
actually, i have not met many male Esfps, and currently I think I like male ISFjs better than female ones. I get along better with female ENTjs than male ones. I think the male ENTjs expect me to be more feminine or something. I'm sure the sex of the person matters to me in some of these cases, as I am pretty traditional er physically so they would align with some people's expectations of gender.
i'm interested in a male ESTj right now and i am pretty certain this would work way better if i were a more feminine INFj. i think right now i might just give him the creeps.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
In all honestly, somebody's gender has nothing to do with how much respect/disrespect I have for them, neither does your gender role. I am sexually attracted to...well you guys already know, but I don't really notice any big differences in either sex, since psychology is about what we think, not what is between our coo-cha-chas. The real differences between men and women and how we think are too subtle for you to even notice, and are also probably pretty bland, they are nothing worth getting upset about either way.
Men are from earth and women are from earth. Don't give me that mars/venus BS. I realize you all don't want to be provoked into another queer theorist rant or any of that, but why put things into so many dictonomies like that. As long as you do that you can't understand anything.
For the love of all that is Holy, and trust me on this, if you really like a guy, help him to get over his gender role BS. Also get over yours. Your relationship wouldn't be better off in some heteronormative role why would you think that? It will probably work better the other way around, because you would be REAL heterosexuals not some fake-ass shitty ones that you see constantly and I just want to KILL THEM FOR BEING SO FAKE AND NON-STRAIGHT. My mom is a tough outgoing cookie she-bitch and my dad is a timid, soft-spoken guy scared of his own shadow. Please read my "Psychology-gay" thread on another section because I talk about this a lot, that shit hurts everybody.i'm interested in a male ESTj right now and i am pretty certain this would work way better if i were a more feminine INFj. i think right now i might just give him the creeps.
It doesn't generally speaking, even though romantically I must be with somebody more agreeable than me otherwise we would end up quarreling all the time.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I am pretty agreeable. As much as I want to be manly and in-charge, I am just a nice easy-going guy that wants to get along and not make enemies. I am smart so I pretty much understand your intentions for doing something, and if I don't, I get hurt about it. If you just come out and attack me out of the blue that's what gets me the most like where the fuck did that come from. To this day I can remember the very first enemy I had. I had no idea why the guy hated my guts, and I still don't, but he really hurt me bad....and I guess I did too, because when he talked to me he sounded so cold, hateful and angry.
That's what I don't get about some people. I don't mind being criticized for things I already know I have problems with, but people hurt me the most when they suddenly just start insulting me. Like WTF did I ever do to you, man? lol Now I have no problem if you do this to other people, esp. if you are trying to protect me.
They're just jealous of our power, right Thunder? *wink*
I think power struggles can be fun in a teasing, flirty way - but not when ya know it's an actual power struggle. I like the fight for dominance and kinda shifting along, like a scared kitten afraid to be hurt, but wanting to be pet so bad, so it comes out for a little bit, but you don't know if it will bite you or run away. If you like the person naturally in anyway, that can be exciting. But you can't be coming from two totally different directions.
My INFj friend doesn't think she's feminine either, she doesn't wear dresses or follow any of the other stereotypical dos and donts. I think most introverted Ns regardless of gender will never be able to conform to societal norms without taking A LOT of drugs. Just remember that "feminine" is defined by what is "not masculine" and that relative to this ESTj you like you're feminine whether you like it or not lol.
I don't think gender makes any difference in how well I get along with people. Maybe it's because I'm married - like I'm "off the market" anyway so it's irrelevant? I have no idea.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
huh. well i wasn't really thinking of sex more just of what i notice or correlate about gender in terms of who i am better able to get along with. now that i've gotten better at typing people in my life, i've noticed that gender seems to play a role in how strongly a type manifests itself.
possible explanation: is T less strongly expressed in rational females? is F less strongly expressed in rational males? does this make a difference in the ease of interaction between types? what about for irrationals?
but i'll try to look at each type and see if there's a difference:
My Type: entp
entp: no gender preference
isfp: no gender preference
esfj: no gender preference
intj: prefer female
estp: no gender preference
enfj: prefer male
istj: prefer female
infp: no gender preference
entj: prefer male
esfp: prefer female
intp: prefer female
isfj: prefer male
enfp: prefer male
infj: prefer female
estj: prefer male
istp: no gender preference
copy and paste as you will!
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Guys that act like girls creep me out, my ESFj roommate last year really bothered me when he would try gossiping with me or talk with this really feminine tone. My current ENFp roommate makes my skin crawl when he does this, what comes off to me as really gay, smile when he thinks he's being cute when asking me for a favor.
My male ENFp French teacher is hilarious though, he's really clumsy/goofy. I think I'm ok with him because I don't have to see him more than once a day.
I think it has to do with over-exposure, I'm ok with those more feminine types of guys so long as I only have to see them once a day, and for a short period of time at that. Anything more and it creeps me out.
I'm put off by girls that act like guys, outwardly aggressive/sexual.
i dont think that really says anything beyond socionics type if youre ESTj.
I think that most women are more perceptive than males, although I can't have a good relationship (even not romantic) if they are too used to dumb themselves down to appear like "ditzy blondes".
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
yeah i think sometimes women will dumb themselves down if they believe that men would be intimidated by a smarter woman. i say if the man is intimidated why the heck wouldja wanna be with him anyway, but who knows people have their reasons.
why do you think women are more perceptive than men though?
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
.
lol! your posts are always so great to me. i'm saying this because i don't think i actually can fit into the heteronormative role. that is always going to be a bit of an issue for me, and is probably why i've had bad relationships to begin with. the problem is that i wouldn't see myself readily fitting into submissive housewife role under any circumstances. i'm not entirely sure i could psychologically tolerate that myself. i haven't met a lot of guys who are more into something neutral. i don't consider myself particularly feminine nor masculine. i agree that to a great degree many of the norms can hurt more than they help, and that the gender-role-ism is a little offputting to me.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
There isn't a different between woman and men except for the small aspect of sex organs. There isn't a difference in intertype relationships except when people obey social stereotypes.
And brain (n. of neurons and their connections), muscles, bones, organs' sizes, hormons, hormons receptors, white and red blood cell count, and many other things.
But it's cool to say we are the same, so let's do that.
LSI
well men and women are more alike than they are different. then again, they say that we have 99.9% similarity to orangutangs too. lol.And brain (n. of neurons and their connections), muscles, bones, organs' sizes, hormons, hormons receptors, white and red blood cell count, and many other things.
But it's cool to say we are the same, so let's do that.
men and women are socialized way differently, and this affects the way people act and the decisions they make.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Most importantly many of the general differences in "brain (n. of neurons and their connections), muscles, bones, organs' sizes, hormons, hormons receptors, white and red blood cell count, and many other things" are based on an average from each sex. They don't account for the variation that exists within each. So, in many of these differences for example, some women will be more similar to the "average" male than some males and some males will be more similar to the "average" female than some females. It's important not to overstate the value of the "average" because the "average" male/female is not a living person but a bundle of compiled statistics.well men and women are more alike than they are different. then again, they say that we have 99.9% similarity to orangutangs too. lol.And brain (n. of neurons and their connections), muscles, bones, organs' sizes, hormons, hormons receptors, white and red blood cell count, and many other things.
But it's cool to say we are the same, so let's do that.
men and women are socialized way differently, and this affects the way people act and the decisions they make.
The average is all you have to build theories on. If you are to find what it is that makes women and men different (or better, to what extent it is genetics and to what extent it is culture), you have to consider the average man and the average woman.
Also, let's say woman is 5 and man is -5: for ever woman who is 0 there will be a man who is -10. So the man average will still be 10 units away from the woman average, and considering the variations is wasted brainpower.
LSI
Do intertype relations vary according to gender?
Assuming that the persons involved are typed correctly; has anyone noticed that depending on the gender (male-female) of the person, a particular inter-type relation is more likely to develop one way or other? I'm aware most variations can be attributed more easily to the inherent unpredictability of human relationships, and differential traits between individual persons, but I'm talking about particular trends according to gender. For instance, not getting along with the Kindred (i.e. EIE <-> ESE) of your same gender, but getting along with the one of opposite gender. Or the supervisor of your same gender annoying you to no end, while the one of opposite gender is much more tolerable. Perhaps subtype is also involved.
Any thoughts?
I've been thinking about people I know, one by one, and I don't notice this to be the case for me. The only thing MAYBE is that I might get along better with SLE men than with SLE women. A have a small number of women SLE friends or acquaintances though, so it might just be an issue of having a small sample size.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
I find it easyer to type persons of the opposite gender, in my case women.
Also the relationship gets more obvious sooner, probably because the relationship that I have with women is usually on a closer psychological distance.
Relations between Psychological ("personality") Types
Try the individual links at the bottom.
i've spent time thinking about this and have some ideas. overall gender has a huge influence on type expression and therefore on intertype relations. i will post more later though, as i'm leaving work now.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
I think this is the biggest thing for me. My relationships with other men tend to stay at a longer psychological distance than do my relationships with women. I have close distance relationships with guys, but there tends to be more resistance to get there on both sides.
I think this has something to do with hard-wired primitive instincts. Men see other men, especially men they don't know that well, as potential threats. We don't want to open up to them for fear of revealing a weakness that they might exploit if they decide to attack. Trust can be built up over time, but it takes longer. Women are smaller and weaker and less full of testosterone, so they seem less threatening, and so we don't mind as much opening up to them.
That's my point of view, anyway -- I'm not sure if any of that is type-specific, or if it all applies across the board.
Quaero Veritas.
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