Misconceptions About Your Quadra?

[Logos]

What do you frequently observe or regard as serious misconceptions that other people have about your quadra and its nature?

[Expat]

That the core socionix crowd is gamma.

[Joy]

[Joy]

What do you frequently observe or regard as serious misconceptions that other people have about your quadra and its nature?

That we're unfriendly. This applies more to some quadra members than others, obviously. Some people confuse a lack of familiarity with a lack of friendliness/kindness.

[Expat]

I'm not sure how the question was meant.

If it refers to real-life interactions, with people who don't know socionics, then I think Joy mentioned the main one.

If it refers to misconceptions in the socionics community around here, I don't think there are many, for one simple reason - the people here who do see the types through the prisma of the quadras are the ones who grasp socionics best, and they are the least likely to have misconceptions.

There are lots of misconceptions about individual Gamma types, though, by those who don't understand how they fit together in a quadra. Nowadays most absurdities seem ILI-related.

[Logos]

I'm not sure how the question was meant.

If it refers to real-life interactions, with people who don't know socionics, then I think Joy mentioned the main one.

If it refers to misconceptions in the socionics community around here, I don't think there are many, for one simple reason - the people here who do see the types through the prisma of the quadras are the ones who grasp socionics best, and they are the least likely to have misconceptions.

There are lots of misconceptions about individual Gamma types, though, by those who don't understand how they fit together in a quadra. Nowadays most absurdities seem ILI-related.

Yes. But perception through the correct lenses does not guarantee a clarity of vision.

That we're unfriendly. This applies more to some quadra members than others, obviously. Some people confuse a lack of familiarity with a lack of friendliness/kindness.

I suppose a common misconception regarding Alpha is almost the exact reverse of that. I would say that common misconceptions of Alpha are that everyone of Alpha wants to be everyone's friend in a big sort of party, that we are all games and no work, and that we do not care for close relationships just "superficial surface level relations," then some people attach the child/infantile label to Alpha too readily, and then that a lack of valued Te makes Alpha inclined to idiocy.

[Ezra]

That we are over-the-top (EIE), esoteric (IEI), overly serious (LSI) pricks (SLE).

[Logos]

That we are over-the-top (EIE), esoteric (IEI), overly serious (LSI) pricks (SLE).

I feel compelled right now to compliment you on how well you constructed that short sentence to give both misconceptions of the overall quadra and individual types.

[eunice]

What do you frequently observe or regard as serious misconceptions that other people have about your quadra and its nature?

1) boring and likes to work alot
2) naive and hypocritical
3) party poopers
4) (common false stereotypes about Deltas)

a. ESTj- grotesquely muscular (e.g. Arnold Schwarzenegger) or rounded (e.g. Family Guy and King of the Hill), too common, not very smart, only enjoy working with tools and instruments, unimaginative, doesn't believe in religion and spirituality, too logical or robot-like, too indulgent of food and beer

b. INFj- fearful, lack of self esteem, hopeless, not adept with the real world, very dependent on others, obedient and easily manipulated, no mind of their own

c. ISTp-emotionless, seems to lack of empathy, only good with sports, not smart enough to handle academic subjects

d. ENFp-not alert, always bumping into walls, unknowledgeable, no self discipline, lack of organization, bad in Maths

[Expat]

This thread is a good case:

http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15256

[machintruc]

All Betas are authoritarian machines.
All Gammas are hostile rednecks.
All Deltas are relativistic hippies.
All Alphas are super cool.

Therefore :

The core socionics crewd is Alpha !!! yeah

[Khamelion]

The core socionics crewd is Alpha !!! yeah

I think he mean't the socionix forum?

[Gilly]

Misconceptions about Alpha:

1) We're only self-serving and have no real allegiances.
2) We don't really care about anything outside our worldview
3) We're naive (we only act that way )
4) We're helpless when it comes to getting big things accomplished

[Gilly]

How is Peter Griffin LSE? O_O;

[Ezra]

How is Peter Griffin LSE? O_O;

AHAHAHA. Who suggested that? What a dickhead.

[Gilly]

a. ESTj- grotesquely muscular (e.g. Arnold Schwarzenegger) or rounded (e.g. Family Guy and King of the Hill), too common, not very smart, only enjoy working with tools and instruments, unimaginative, doesn't believe in religion and spirituality, too logical or robot-like, too indulgent of food and beer

[BLauritson]

Depending how you look at that, that's just a reference to bodily figure rather than saying he's ESTj.

[redbaron]

What do you frequently observe or regard as serious misconceptions that other people have about your quadra and its nature?

That we're unfriendly. This applies more to some quadra members than others, obviously. Some people confuse a lack of familiarity with a lack of friendliness/kindness.

This made me laugh because I read "that we're unfriendly" and then took a look at your avatar (which is indeed unfriendly-looking)! I know you're not your avatar but it still made me laugh.

[Ezra]

a. ESTj- grotesquely muscular (e.g. Arnold Schwarzenegger) or rounded (e.g. Family Guy and King of the Hill), too common, not very smart, only enjoy working with tools and instruments, unimaginative, doesn't believe in religion and spirituality, too logical or robot-like, too indulgent of food and beer

I know exactly what she's thinking of. But it is not LSE. It is an SLI or SEI. Homer Simpson, Peter Griffin and Hank Hill are all examples of these people. All representatives of lazy or peaceable fathers of American families. Their focus on food and beer is all Si related. Can either be Alpha or Delta. Most likely SEIs.

[redbaron]

a. ESTj- grotesquely muscular (e.g. Arnold Schwarzenegger) or rounded (e.g. Family Guy and King of the Hill), too common, not very smart, only enjoy working with tools and instruments, unimaginative, doesn't believe in religion and spirituality, too logical or robot-like, too indulgent of food and beer

I know exactly what she's thinking of. But it is not LSE. It is an SLI or SEI. Homer Simpson, Peter Griffin and Hank Hill are all examples of these people. All representatives of lazy or peaceable fathers of American families. Their focus on food and beer is all Si related. Can either be Alpha or Delta. Most likely SEIs.

Harsh! I take issue with that. "not very smart" "unimaginative" "doesn't believe in religion and spirituality" those are all polar opposites of the SEIs I know.....

[Logos]

a. ESTj- grotesquely muscular (e.g. Arnold Schwarzenegger) or rounded (e.g. Family Guy and King of the Hill), too common, not very smart, only enjoy working with tools and instruments, unimaginative, doesn't believe in religion and spirituality, too logical or robot-like, too indulgent of food and beer

I know exactly what she's thinking of. But it is not LSE. It is an SLI or SEI. Homer Simpson, Peter Griffin and Hank Hill are all examples of these people. All representatives of lazy or peaceable fathers of American families. Their focus on food and beer is all Si related. Can either be Alpha or Delta. Most likely SEIs.

Except, past discussions have typed Peter Griffin as an ENTp.

[Jonathan]

I think possibly the two biggest misconceptions are conflating Alpha with being an "intellectual" and Gamma with being primarily interested in material success.

I also disagree with the idea that people who approach Socionics from focusing on quadras (as opposed to focusing on IM elements or any other approach) are any more immune to having misconceptions than anyone else.

[Logos]

I think possibly the two biggest misconceptions are conflating Alpha with being an "intellectual" and Gamma with being primarily interested in material success.

I also disagree with the idea that people who approach Socionics from focusing on quadras (as opposed to focusing on IM elements or any other approach) are any more immune to having misconceptions than anyone else.

I do not know where you heard this one. Gamma has much of an "intellectual" reputation if not more so than Alpha with the presence of .

[Ezra]

a. ESTj- grotesquely muscular (e.g. Arnold Schwarzenegger) or rounded (e.g. Family Guy and King of the Hill), too common, not very smart, only enjoy working with tools and instruments, unimaginative, doesn't believe in religion and spirituality, too logical or robot-like, too indulgent of food and beer

I know exactly what she's thinking of. But it is not LSE. It is an SLI or SEI. Homer Simpson, Peter Griffin and Hank Hill are all examples of these people. All representatives of lazy or peaceable fathers of American families. Their focus on food and beer is all Si related. Can either be Alpha or Delta. Most likely SEIs.

Harsh! I take issue with that. "not very smart" "unimaginative" "doesn't believe in religion and spirituality" those are all polar opposites of the SEIs I know.....

Take issue with her, not me. I'm simply giving a label to the kind of people eunice is thinking of.

[liveandletlive]

there's some truth to all stereotypes otherwise they wouldn't be widely known and accepted as stereotypes.

[aestrivex]

there's some truth to all stereotypes otherwise they wouldn't be widely known and accepted as stereotypes.

...

[liveandletlive]

there's some truth to all stereotypes otherwise they wouldn't be widely known and accepted as stereotypes.

...

You have to stop doing that. What?

[Jonathan]

I think possibly the two biggest misconceptions are conflating Alpha with being an "intellectual" and Gamma with being primarily interested in material success.

I also disagree with the idea that people who approach Socionics from focusing on quadras (as opposed to focusing on IM elements or any other approach) are any more immune to having misconceptions than anyone else.

I do not know where you heard this one. Gamma has much of an "intellectual" reputation if not more so than Alpha with the presence of .

I find more Alpha's to be "amateur" intellectuals and Gamma/Betas to go after degrees and the like. It's not that Alpha's don't go for them, but there are social difficulties that we encounter that may not be as prevelant in Gamma/Beta/Delta types.

Looking at a famous Alpha's academic example...

I'm not sure that these things about Einstein are all representative of Alphas. A number of things said here seem characteristic of ILEs. However, many LIIs and ESEs are more in-tuned with organizational structures than that.

I never understood the threads about how LIIs are disadvantaged in school, and that sort of thing. It seems that the LII mindset is more advantageous in terms of the academic environment than most other types.

As to whether Gammas care more about credentials, degrees, etc., or whether Alphas are more inclined to be "amateur" intellectuals who don't care about credentials...I think that in itself may be a misconception (?).

[aestrivex]

there's some truth to all stereotypes otherwise they wouldn't be widely known and accepted as stereotypes.

...

You have to stop doing that. What?

i wouldnt be doing this if you werent writing up this insane shit and then posting it as if you thought it were true. that's just sadistic. you, as a truly enlightened individual of the great renaissance of socionics at boston university, have a responsibility to educate these uncivilized, braindead savages without resorting to deception and trickery. and i, as god's one true holy messenger, have a responsibility to chastise you for this altogether unbefitting behavior.

[liveandletlive]

there's some truth to all stereotypes otherwise they wouldn't be widely known and accepted as stereotypes.

...

You have to stop doing that. What?

i wouldnt be doing this if you werent writing up this insane shit and then posting it as if you thought it were true. that's just sadistic. you, as a truly enlightened individual of the great renaissance of socionics at boston university, have a responsibility to educate these uncivilized, braindead savages without resorting to deception and trickery. and i, as god's one true holy messenger, have a responsibility to chastise you for this altogether unbefitting behavior.

haha.. ok once again- what? lol i think im right.

[Jonathan]

The only reason he got it published was probably because of Bertrand Russell.

I see that as characteristic of introversion...the external goal wasn't that important to him.

I understand your point though...Alphas, more than others, tend to be "headstrong," going their own path, doing things that seem absurd and unprofitable to others simply because that is what they decided is best for them. Gammas would be more inclined to try to capitalize on their successes.

But I think that overall, in practice, Alphas probably aren't any more or less likely than other quadras to get a degree relevant to their line of work.

The two people you picked out are examples of the "maverick genius." Not all Alphas are like that. And there are lots of eccentric genius types who aren't Alphas.

[eunice]

a. ESTj- grotesquely muscular (e.g. Arnold Schwarzenegger) or rounded (e.g. Family Guy and King of the Hill), too common, not very smart, only enjoy working with tools and instruments, unimaginative, doesn't believe in religion and spirituality, too logical or robot-like, too indulgent of food and beer

I know exactly what she's thinking of. But it is not LSE. It is an SLI or SEI. Homer Simpson, Peter Griffin and Hank Hill are all examples of these people. All representatives of lazy or peaceable fathers of American families. Their focus on food and beer is all Si related. Can either be Alpha or Delta. Most likely SEIs.

Harsh! I take issue with that. "not very smart" "unimaginative" "doesn't believe in religion and spirituality" those are all polar opposites of the SEIs I know.....

Take issue with her, not me. I'm simply giving a label to the kind of people eunice is thinking of.

Well, you had assumed these descriptions are that of ISXps. I had ESTj-Si in mind when I wrote that.

[Logos]

Alpha -- irresponsible
Beta -- sociopaths
Gamma -- emotionless machines
Delta -- flighty, naiive hippies

But that only covers Gamma NTs, what about the judgmental SFs? :wink:

[Logos]

Alpha -- irresponsible
Beta -- sociopaths
Gamma -- emotionless machines
Delta -- flighty, naiive hippies

But that only covers Gamma NTs, what about the judgmental SFs? :wink:

It also covers ESIs to some extent, though not SEEs. People often seem to have a conception of SEEs which is... not Gamma.

Which would make it a...? Misconception. Good job.

[Logos]

I mean... I don't even know where to start with misconceptions on SEEs. All I have to say is no wonder people don't get quadras.

Well considering that just about every Quadra believes that we are misinformed about one of their types, I doubt we are involved in a Gamma-only problem.

[Logos]

I mean... I don't even know where to start with misconceptions on SEEs. All I have to say is no wonder people don't get quadras.

Well considering that just about every Quadra believes that we are misinformed about one of their types, I doubt we are involved in a Gamma-only problem.

Hence "no wonder people don't get quadras".

Well if they do not get types, then of course they would not get Quadras, so I do not really see how this is a point.

[Expat]

I also disagree with the idea that people who approach Socionics from focusing on quadras (as opposed to focusing on IM elements or any other approach) are any more immune to having misconceptions than anyone else.

There are some people here who never even mention quadras when discussing socionics, even if they may pay lip service to it. To me that's an indication that such people don't really understand socionics, which is confirmed by misconceptions such as this:

I mean... I don't even know where to start with misconceptions on SEEs. All I have to say is no wonder people don't get quadras.

If people start to reflect as to exactly how and why the SEE is the dual of the ILI, and the mirror of the ESI, etc, it helps to prevent some misconceptions.

Or the ESI -- on occasion, some people still describe ESI women as being obsessed about tidiness and the like. If ESIs were like that, how could they be the LIE's dual?

Etc.

[Phaedrus]

I never understood the threads about how LIIs are disadvantaged in school, and that sort of thing. It seems that the LII mindset is more advantageous in terms of the academic environment than most other types.

Yes, and it's a statistical fact that LIIs reach the highest grades in academia of all the types. They are in no way disadvantaged in school, at least not intellectually.

[Phaedrus]

Look at Wittgenstein, the guy wrote Tractatus as a soldier on leave, said.... fuck it I'm done with philosophy, and went to become a school teacher. The only reason he got it published was probably because of Bertrand Russell.

It is not a good example, because Wittgenstein was most likely an ILI, despite Rick's typing of him.

[leckysupport]

I never understood the threads about how LIIs are disadvantaged in school, and that sort of thing. It seems that the LII mindset is more advantageous in terms of the academic environment than most other types.

Yes, and it's a statistical fact that LIIs reach the highest grades in academia of all the types. They are in no way disadvantaged in school, at least not intellectually.

Statistical fact?