how can you tell when an ESTP likes you? if they have restrictive parents?
How can you tell when an SLE/ESTp likes you?
how can you tell when an ESTP likes you? if they have restrictive parents?
Re: ESTPs
by killing the parents.Originally Posted by Vicki
Re: ESTPs
My thoughts exactly.by killing the parents.
I've never met an ExTx that succumbed to resitrictive parents. Usually they are able to get their own way, even through physical fighting if needed.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Re: ESTPs
http://one.revver.com/watch/285628by killing the parents.
eh, he seems to respect his parents.. his mom likes him.
they're all christian.
and yeah I mean in the crush way.
Aren't ESTP supposed to be outspoken? If he gropes you, you might know.
which makes me doubt if he's really ESTP.
he sure as heck acts like an ESTP. you can't stop laughing around him
and takes challenges like they're nothing.
but he respects the resctrictive parents and seems to like it when
the girl approaches instead of vise versa.
quote "oh, look! finally the girls are coming to US!"
what you said there definatly sounds like him..
okay, this is like a couple days after his mom tells him that I like him. (I didn't tell her too)
he said, "well, I only like her as a friend" I'm not sure about that there but his sister thinks he said it because his mom didn't sound to happy so she thinks maybe he was lying.
okay so one night I'm playing with some little girl and mr.ESTP is playing ping pong with some other guy..(without a table)
then me and the other girl lay down under the pingpong game because she dared me too.
ESTP and the other guy talk for a while,
Me:I keep thinking that ball is gonna hit me in the face
ESTP: (I can't remember what he said, something about making sure it doesn't)
Me: aww! I didn't know you cared!
ESTP: well, your the one who likes me!!
Me: WHAT!?
ESTP: you like me!! *smile*
Me: so
then hes doing random things to me that he doesn't usually do like
jump on me, and flash a light in my face, and for crying out loud, he said GOODBYE sincerly!
well.. after he scared me and said "BOO!".. but, yeah..
omg, and I gave him a card and ran away cuz I was so scared of what his reaction might be.
his sister said, "he opened it and he was like, 'aww!'" like it was cute or something..
ughhh. I love him to bits....
Again, this is what I was thinking.
An SLE who, it seems, you cannot see if they like you or not, is probably not an SLE. Maybe an ESTP in MBTT, but certainly not an SLE.
I didn't quite understand all that. what's SLE and MBTT?Again, this is what I was thinking.
An SLE who, it seems, you cannot see if they like you or not, is probably not an SLE. Maybe an ESTP in MBTT, but certainly not an SLE.
An SLE is the lexical equivalent of an ESTp. They are different to their MBTT (Myers-Briggs Type Testing) counterpart, ESTP, in many ways. General focus is one. Focus on power is another.
Ezra, (as diplomatically as possible) you are not an ESTp. You do not understand them at all. Honestly, everytime you post about them, you are way off.
Have you checked into ESTj again?
This is true with my ENTp bro. Not like my parents are very restrictive, but y'know. Physical fighting ensues.
I won't go off topic on this. I'll answer you both, zenbrat and Herzy, in my 100 page typing thread in "What's My Type?".
that sucks. well, this estp must not be totally estp.This is true with my ENTp bro. Not like my parents are very restrictive, but y'know. Physical fighting ensues.
THANKYOU.that sucks. well, this estp must not be totally estp.This is true with my ENTp bro. Not like my parents are very restrictive, but y'know. Physical fighting ensues.
I didn't quite understand what was up between you guys.THANKYOU.that sucks. well, this estp must not be totally estp.This is true with my ENTp bro. Not like my parents are very restrictive, but y'know. Physical fighting ensues.
What are you talking about?
Also, Zenbrat, do you know what an SLE is or are you just going off MBTT descriptions?
She was down for an 8w7 on EIDB for a very long time. About half a year after I got there, she switched to 3w4. She also calls herself an ENFP (in MBTT). I don't know what she (might think she) is in socionics, and I couldn't even hazard a guess.honestly, i see what i think is a lot of Fi and Te on her myspace. i don't see any reason to dispute her Se though. (and as for her Ti, maybe she still has it but is sensing subtype?)
I don't consciously fool or attempt to fool others.Ezra what do you think about the EN(T)p typing for yourself i pitched a while back ago? it's possible you've fooled me into finally buying an Se type for yourself only because my own understanding of Se is too limited (which wouldn't surprise me, since i'm considering INTj for myself after all.)
I'm actually considering ILE right now, believe it or not. But basically, at this stage, it remains uncertain. The only reason I initially threw the idea away was because I though SLE fitted me better. It's quite possible though that my aggression that those around me so frequently experience is completely unrelated to Se, and is in fact to do with me as a person. I find it after all to be a bit of entertainment. It's nothing serious. It's a shame some people don't realise this. I can be, however, a very challenging person.
After the amount of controversy generated by the initial description (which I have now deleted, accidentally), I wrote another more low key, outright honest piece about my life. Elro I think it was typed me as an ILE. I can't find the description sadly.
Talk to Expat. Seriously. He has met me in person. If anyone has anything to say about the truth of my Se, he does.
Well, to clarify:
I am a Socionics Ni INFp, an Enneagram 4w5, and MBTI INxP. The reasons, confusions and conclusions are a tale for another day. Ask if interested - I'll splain.
My "T"-ness is probably a combination of many things:
1) Being a 5-wing on the Enneagram.
2) Being Ni subtype in Socionics.
3) Most aquaintances in my life, of every relationship type, are (and have been) ESTp's - mostly Ti subtype.
4) I work in IT, and have done so for almost 8 years.
5) I like to read, learn, think, write and discuss - a byproduct of being raised by a Ni INFp and Ti ESTp no doubt.
As for Ezra... ESTj. I don't have conflicting relations with ESTp's, ever. I have great offline aquaintances with all of the ESTp's from EIDB. I have no less than 15 ESTp family members, friends and intimates with whom I get along famously. But, Ezra and I would kill each other IRL, or die trying.
Ti ESTp = Little Red Riding Hood, Heath, HitmanISTP, Jessica (Ti's seem like Introverts, most often test as ISTp)
Se ESTp = Herzy, Icepick
Ezra resembles none of these, nor any other ESTp I have ever known. He does, however, resemble the ESTj's I've known. Expat is an exception - a very balanced ESTj who is more ENTj; likes to discuss and explore information, rather than ram a conclusion down your throat.
What do you think about me? ENTj sounds right? (ps. I think Heath is ISTj)
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
yeah i think icepick is an istp.
FDG you prolly are an entj. you like isfj's too much to be an estp...lol.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Yeah, I agree with this. I don't think too many ESTp-Ses in general would be attracted to this site.
Suomea
Honestly, I'm not trying to retype anyone. These are just observations.
I've chatted with Icepick offline at great length; ESTp, definately.
I believe Jessica is Ti, based on many factors. Again, Ti ESTp's all seem like introverts. It's all in what she says, how she relates to herself and her world. Also, female ESTp's have a fragile appearance. ISTp females are a bit more rugged.
I could pull a series of posts and launch a real explaination, but not without consent. Again, I'm not trying to retype or challenge anyone's self-typing. Just observing.
Herzy, have you taken Enneagram tests? I've noticed that Se's = 7w6 and Ti's = 7w8.
FDG, actually I've always pegged you NT. Not so sure about j though. What do you believe leans you toward rational?
I know that I can seem like an ESTp very easily because I can be quite outspoken with my friends, although I clam the fuck up when it's with anyone I don't know.
ALlllllllllllllllllllllright for Ti.
The ESTp-Se I know is 8w7 and ESTp-Ti I know is 8w9, I've been over it with both of them. I think the 9 wing explains the Ti subtypes seeming passiveness whilst at the same time they get shit done
INFp-Ni
Everything here is very, very shitty reasoning. It's based on weak or no foundations. It's speculation at best.
zenbrat, I'm not going to ignore the possibility of SLE-Ti for me. Keep in mind that while I test as an ESTJ most of the time regarding MBTT, it is not necessarily the case that I am Delta. I type as an ESTJ from a dichotomical point of view, but not necessarily from a functional point of view. MBTI tests through dichotomies, not functions. And therein lies its flaw; it uses both elements to justify its method, and yet they are at odds with one another. Nonetheless, I will not rule Delta out as a possibility at this time.
Let me also point out that your observations regarding Expat are incorrect, zenbrat, not because you've misinterpreted LIE or LSE, but because your understanding of Expat is skewered. Expat's manner (in real life) is almost totally at odds with the LSE. Yes, he undermines Fe, but he doesn't have the air of restraint like the LSE does, nor does he give ten shits about the way he composes himself. Talk to FDG, and he will back me up.
Fabio, Expat noted some differences between you and I. He said that while you made the attempt to be friendly, passed jokes and had a laid back air about you, I, in contrast, had the cold, evaluating stare of a Ti-subtype. This could be related to my being an SLE-Ti, or it could be related to the possibility of my being an LSI. Expat says he doesn't think I'm Ti dominant, and nor do I, but it is still a possibility. Basically though, I guess he saw a distinction between the way you and I acted. I personally wasn't new to the kind of person Expat was (I've known and got on well enough with Te-dominants in the past), but his style not something I'm particularly accustomed to. Also, both Expat and I believe you are an SEE, but for different reasons. I won't attempt to explain Expat's reasoning, but I believe you are an SEE because what I have seen of you thus far is most compatible with the SEE's functioning order. I won't give you a full-blown analysis of your character unless you ask for one, and it will take a long time to compose if you do.
He's talking about my friend here; not me. Go into my thread in What's My Type? for more information.was he referring to you or just your description of you with this?
i'm aware Expat doesn't dispute the ESTp typing but if he also is considering INTj (Se POLR) then he musn't think Se ego for you is anything to bet the house on.
7w8's and 8w7's are often confused. Even they aren't always sure. But, if you confront them about something painful, limiting, or require a final and binding decision, the difference becomes clear.The ESTp-Se I know is 8w7 and ESTp-Ti I know is 8w9, I've been over it with both of them. I think the 9 wing explains the Ti subtypes seeming passiveness whilst at the same time they get shit done
8's move in, decisively and aggressively - it WILL be settled, decided and resolved NOW. Even if/when you're ready to let it go, the 8 is not. You feel intense pressure, like a vice.
7's evade, say "I don't know", walk away, bring up irrelevent points to move the conversation elsewhere, pull back and only 'spark' lightly aggressive in small bursts (if feeling extremely cornered) while trying to placate you - oh, and it will never be resolved. You feel like you're trying to nail jello to a tree that's throwing acorns at you.
7w8's are mistaken for 8w9's because of their strength in reserve and withdrawn persona. Gandolfini is a good example of 7w8 ESTp.
Then they are sorely mistaken. 7w8s and 8w9s are two very different breeds. It is much easier to mistake a 7w8 for an 8w7 than an 8w9. It is almost impossible to mistake an 8w9 for a 7w8. 8w9s are even more grounded than 8w7s, who are in turn more grounded than 7w8s. Nonetheless, Jack Nicholson is a 7w8, and he can sometimes look like an 8w9.
I haven't provided actual "reasoning", Ezra. I provided comparisons. You exhibit very close-ended, conclusive dismissal without actually requesting additional information on my "foundations"; very STj.
Duh? I just said that.It's speculation at best.
I'm not particularly invested in the dichotomical or functional basis of your type, Ezra. Defensively and aggressively trying to ram a conclusion down my throat (rather than telling me to go straight to Hell and moving on like an ESTp) screams ESTj.zenbrat, I'm not going to ignore the possibility of SLE-Ti for me. Keep in mind that while I test as an ESTJ most of the time regarding MBTT, it is not necessarily the case that I am Delta. I type as an ESTJ from a dichotomical point of view, but not necessarily from a functional point of view. MBTI tests through dichotomies, not functions. And therein lies its flaw; it uses both elements to justify its method, and yet they are at odds with one another. Nonetheless, I will not rule Delta out as a possibility at this time.
My observations of Expat are rather cursory, however, I am quite familiar with Expat's on-board style of information presentation, and open-ended seeking of input and response, which does not seem ESTj. And as I specified, this is in direct conflict with my experience of the ESTj personality. I did not question Expat's personality typing at all nor did I request verification of such from you.Let me also point out that your observations regarding Expat are incorrect, zenbrat, not because you've misinterpreted LIE or LSE, but because your understanding of Expat is skewered. Expat's manner (in real life) is almost totally at odds with the LSE. Yes, he undermines Fe, but he doesn't have the air of restraint like the LSE does, nor does he give ten shits about the way he composes himself. Talk to FDG, and he will back me up.
An ESTp wouldn't really give a good got-damn either way what Expat's opinion of their Se was, truth or not.
Ti's: Forrest Whitaker, James Gandolfini, Trent Reznor, Eminem, Denzel Washington
Se: Lenny Kravitz, Prince
These guys are often pegged as Feelers or Intuitives, which they are not. ESTp is probably the most sentimental type about love and the most emotionally distraught about how hoplessly scewed up life really is for them - but it only comes through in indirect 'anonymous' expression: lyrics, fiction, blogs, acting, etc. They are wonderful actors because they feel so much under the surface. It lends a lot of reality and depth to their roles - they pour the feeling that they cannot express IRL into their roles.
I'm not sure how dual-seeking plays into this but I've observed that ESTp's are INFp-ish at heart.
I have the "wisdom of the enneagram book" and decided to give a little look through. I still think my ESTp-Ti friend is 8w9 but I can also see where you're coming from because I know a female ESTp-Ti that is probably 7w8.
anyways the description of an average 8w9 is short so i'll type it, i think an ESTp can fit it.
---------------------------------------------------------
THE EIGHT WITH A NINE WING: THE BEAR
Average: These people seem to have a dual nature, manifesting themselves differently in different areas of their lives. For instance, they can be warm and affectionate at home but highly determined and aggressive at work. People of this subtype generally like to live quietly and unobtrusively, preferring to control their affairs from behind the scenes. They also tend to speak slowly and to be highly attuned to the nonverbal cues and body language of others- friendly while secretly sizing people up. Strategic and watchful, they almost dare others to underestimate them. Eights of this subtype can be stubborn, impassive, and quietly menacing. When they lose their tempers, the explosion comes suddenly and violently, and then is gone.
-------------------------------------------------------------
vs.
-------------------------------------
THE EIGHT WITH A SEVEN-WING: THE INDEPENDENT
Average: People of this subtype are adventurous risk-takers. They tend to have "big plans" and, in order to enlist the cooperation of others, to make big promises and exaggerate the potential of their ventures. They are also once of the most sociable types, talkative and outgoing, with great self-confidence. They are pragmatic, practical and competitive and are not overly concerned with pleasing others or with putting up with what they perceive as weakness or inefficiency. They can become impatient, impulsive, and more likely to be led by their feelings than the other subtype. They are more openly aggressive and confrontational and less likely to back down from a fight.
----------------------------------------
vs.
----------------------------------------------------------
THE SEVEN WITH AN EIGHT WING: THE REALIST
Average: People of this subtype apply their energies in many directions, multitasking or even "multi-careering." They can be aggressive and have the willpower and drive to take care of their own needs. They tend to be more workaholic than the other subtype, coming from the strong desire to accumulate possessions and experiences. ("I'm worth it!"). Their focus is more on generating activities than on connecting with people. Hence they tend to be pragmatic about relationships- looking for a partner, not a romantic fantasy figure. They are not afraid to be alone and are clear about their expectations and how much they will tolerate. Directness can verge on bluntness and on pushing people out of the way to get what they want. They can be jaded and callous, in contrast to the childish hyperenthusiasm of the six-wing.
----------
and here's the Socionics subtype descriptions
Sensory subtype: (The Coordinator)
(Valentine Meged & Anatoly Ovcharov) The sensory subtype is witty and impulsive… while seemingly concealing within them latent threats they appear unappeasable. However, they are sharp, aggressive and persevering people. Notably resourceful, they are able to manifest vindictiveness in doses that make life for their ill-wishers simply intolerable. Their character appears full of contrasts and unpredictability. Towards those whom they love they are often tender, even sentimental. Their sense of humor easily incorporates sarcasm and caustic irony. Are talkative, charming, witty, critical and sharp, love epithets and slang expressions. Their movements are fast and gait centered, When walking their slightly bent knees provide them with an ingratiating feline resemblance. Appreciate life and tend to watch over their health, periodically exercising through sports/gymnastics. Dresses tastefully and expensively. Usually provide a bright impression of a self-assured and prospering person.
(Victor Gulenko) Sharp, demonstrative, attacking style of behaviour. Expressive and expansive to the point of being aggressive. Feels at home in emergencies; find themselves in conflicts; can pressure people in order to rapidly introduce order. If conflicts do not occur, they can provoke some in order to then take the initiative into their own hands. Emotional and sociable, will want the attention of more than one person of the opposite sex. Women also display initiative in their acquaintances with men. This subtype is sinewy, mobile, often thin, has a well developed taste, is an epicure. In fashion are drawn to refinement and prestige.
(Sexual behaviour) Demonstrative and behave unpredictably. Are sexually daring and energetic; animated in interaction and possessing feelings of humor. Are sexual and diverse in both moods and erotic reactions. Strongly emotional, are inclined to ignore the feelings and attitudes of other people and to consider their interests. An imperious and demanding partner, but can be thoughtful and affectionate. Find it difficult to restrain jealousy. Require an attentive, loyal, and reliable partner, whom will remain utterly submissive to their initiative.
------------------------------------------
Logical subtype: (The Organizer)
(Valentine Meged & Anatoly Ovcharov) The logical subtype constructs an impression of quite force and confidence for themselves. They are rational and sequential in affairs; hardworking and hardy. Usually appear cool, sustained and collected, however, in moments of irritation they express their fury in demonstratively sharp, absolute gestures. Within a quiet atmosphere they are kind and polite, while keeping the interlocutor at a distance. Their humor is sharp, sometimes rude, and they bare a quick, mistrustful glare from under their eyebrows. They’re kind but also serious and guarded. Their gait and gestures appear harmonious, smooth and precise. Tends to dress rather monotonously, however, from time to time can also clothe themselves brightly, even extravagantly. Appreciate quality in apparel and often creates many outfits from a few articles. Thus they show concern for both their behaviour and appearance; though they often seem cold and inaccessible they themselves try to appear proper, equal and benevolent, while maintaining their advantages.
(Victor Gulenko) Prefer to remain in the shadows, not to demonstrate their aspirations, but constantly hold their hands on the pulse of all proceedings around them. Outwardly appears balanced and phlegmatic. Before acting, checks all versions of possible consequences and only then enters into the game. Distrustful and careful, skeptic, conservative and realistic. Because they are not very sociable, may appear to be introverted. If they have their aim on a victim, they act slowly, by the method of the "compressive ring".
(Sexual behaviour) Tend to occupy a “wait and see attitude” as they are prone to doubt others feelings towards them. Their emotional expression may appear somewhat forced as they prefer to await the initiative of others; afterwards are tender and attentive with an aim of improving sexual techniques. Internally are sentimental; love uncommon adventures. Not quick to forget past offences. Have need of someone reasonable, flexible and diplomatic. Their partner should be affectionate, attractive, merry and optimistic.
Actually, that is NOTHING like LSE. LSEs are amongst the first (thanks to Te leading) to request additional information so that they have everything they need to make an educated judgement. It is the SLE that is far more likely to jump in and say "I'm right; end of".
I wasn't just referring to your speculations; I was referring to the hype from several different people that came with it.Duh? I just said that.
Which is why you will be forever stuck in the hell that is Myers-Briggs and other theories unrelated to socionics.I'm not particularly invested in the dichotomical or functional basis of your type, Ezra.
Clearly your understanding of both the SLE and the LSE is particularly poor. This aggression you refer to is a perfect representation of Se, and has very little if anything to do with Te.Defensively and aggressively trying to ram a conclusion down my throat (rather than telling me to go straight to Hell and moving on like an ESTp) screams ESTj.
An ESTp wouldn't really give a good got-damn either way what Expat's opinion of their Se was, truth or not.
LOOK AT THE FACTS. It's not opinion. Expat works with Te, which is trying to get rid of as much opinion as possible. I'm trying to convince you using facts. I'm convincing you that your understanding of LSE, SLE, Se, Te and me is shit.
This is utter crap, by the way. Se is a pinnicle representation of the kind of concern about power that 7w8s and 8w7s have. Ti subtypes are more likely to be 3s, 6s and 8w9s. Most 7w6s will not be SLEs anyway - they'll be ILEs. A 7 is an ideas person, and a 7w8 is a grounded version of that ideas person; an SLE.
Very good Enneagram reference is The Wisdom of the Enneagram. If nothing else, follow that not like an Enneabible (R&H are not infallible), but something like it.
Based on this, let me say that I think Se subtype fits 7w8 perfectly, and Ti 8w9. 8w7 could be either.Sensory subtype: (The Coordinator)
(Valentine Meged & Anatoly Ovcharov) The sensory subtype is witty and impulsive… while seemingly concealing within them latent threats they appear unappeasable. However, they are sharp, aggressive and persevering people. Notably resourceful, they are able to manifest vindictiveness in doses that make life for their ill-wishers simply intolerable. Their character appears full of contrasts and unpredictability. Towards those whom they love they are often tender, even sentimental. Their sense of humor easily incorporates sarcasm and caustic irony. Are talkative, charming, witty, critical and sharp, love epithets and slang expressions. Their movements are fast and gait centered, When walking their slightly bent knees provide them with an ingratiating feline resemblance. Appreciate life and tend to watch over their health, periodically exercising through sports/gymnastics. Dresses tastefully and expensively. Usually provide a bright impression of a self-assured and prospering person.
(Victor Gulenko) Sharp, demonstrative, attacking style of behaviour. Expressive and expansive to the point of being aggressive. Feels at home in emergencies; find themselves in conflicts; can pressure people in order to rapidly introduce order. If conflicts do not occur, they can provoke some in order to then take the initiative into their own hands. Emotional and sociable, will want the attention of more than one person of the opposite sex. Women also display initiative in their acquaintances with men. This subtype is sinewy, mobile, often thin, has a well developed taste, is an epicure. In fashion are drawn to refinement and prestige.
(Sexual behaviour) Demonstrative and behave unpredictably. Are sexually daring and energetic; animated in interaction and possessing feelings of humor. Are sexual and diverse in both moods and erotic reactions. Strongly emotional, are inclined to ignore the feelings and attitudes of other people and to consider their interests. An imperious and demanding partner, but can be thoughtful and affectionate. Find it difficult to restrain jealousy. Require an attentive, loyal, and reliable partner, whom will remain utterly submissive to their initiative.
------------------------------------------
Logical subtype: (The Organizer)
(Valentine Meged & Anatoly Ovcharov) The logical subtype constructs an impression of quite force and confidence for themselves. They are rational and sequential in affairs; hardworking and hardy. Usually appear cool, sustained and collected, however, in moments of irritation they express their fury in demonstratively sharp, absolute gestures. Within a quiet atmosphere they are kind and polite, while keeping the interlocutor at a distance. Their humor is sharp, sometimes rude, and they bare a quick, mistrustful glare from under their eyebrows. They’re kind but also serious and guarded. Their gait and gestures appear harmonious, smooth and precise. Tends to dress rather monotonously, however, from time to time can also clothe themselves brightly, even extravagantly. Appreciate quality in apparel and often creates many outfits from a few articles. Thus they show concern for both their behaviour and appearance; though they often seem cold and inaccessible they themselves try to appear proper, equal and benevolent, while maintaining their advantages.
(Victor Gulenko) Prefer to remain in the shadows, not to demonstrate their aspirations, but constantly hold their hands on the pulse of all proceedings around them. Outwardly appears balanced and phlegmatic. Before acting, checks all versions of possible consequences and only then enters into the game. Distrustful and careful, skeptic, conservative and realistic. Because they are not very sociable, may appear to be introverted. If they have their aim on a victim, they act slowly, by the method of the "compressive ring".
(Sexual behaviour) Tend to occupy a “wait and see attitude” as they are prone to doubt others feelings towards them. Their emotional expression may appear somewhat forced as they prefer to await the initiative of others; afterwards are tender and attentive with an aim of improving sexual techniques. Internally are sentimental; love uncommon adventures. Not quick to forget past offences. Have need of someone reasonable, flexible and diplomatic. Their partner should be affectionate, attractive, merry and optimistic.
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