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Thread: Je, Ji, Pe, Pi

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    Default Je, Ji, Pe, Pi

    Where did these terms come from?
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    Where'd you encounter them?

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    Default Re: Je, Ji, Pe, Pi

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Where did these terms come from?
    Well I used them to describe Extraverted Perceiving (Pe) functions of Se and Ne, Extraverted Judging (Je) functions of Fe and Te, Introverted Perceiving (Pi) functions of Si and Ni, and Introverted Judging (Ji) functions of Ti and Fi. They could have easily existed before I used the terms and I never noticed it before, but I remember consciously establishing such a jargon for my own shorthand writing on the board for several discussions where such terms would be relevant. But I chose P & J instead of Rational (R) and Irrational (I) mainly for aesthetic reasons (I did not want an I sub i [Ii] for Introverted Irrational functions).
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    The first time I saw them used was six months to a year ago, and I've never seen them used by anyone other than board members.
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    I'd really like an answer on this... I'd like to know if my annoyance is justified or not.
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    All it is is shortcuts meaning the same thing as Logos does.
    Xe means {Se, Ne, Fe, Te}
    Xi means {Si, Ni, Fi, Ti}
    Pe means {Se, Ne}
    Pi means {Si, Ni}
    Je means {Fe, Te}
    Ji means {Fi, Ti}
    Other short hands are JePi, JiPe, PeJi, PiJe to show types that having something similar in common (base extraverted judging function with creative introverted perceiving function, etc)

    the forum has been using them for at least a year now.
    I remember them being used quite often to show which functions were involved in a reinin dichotomy (even though this shorthand can't be easily used for all of them)

    as for whether or not there is a distinct difference between "judging" functions and "perceiving" functions, I can't answer that. That doesn't alter the usefulness (and perhaps later confusion of J vs P) of using the short hand terms during communication.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    I'd really like an answer on this... I'd like to know if my annoyance is justified or not.
    Why are you annoyed? Why should this even be an issue? What is wrong with the use of these terms?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee
    this is not a good question to ask, believe me.
    The use of the word "this" or are you talking about a particular question?
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    I just need to know if these terms are used by any professional Socionists or if they're forum slang.
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    How about Augusta... did she ever use terms like that?
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    The professional socionicists use the black and white shape signs... Even "Te", "Fi" and the like are used exclusively in hobbyist circles.

    Keep in mind, "extroverted thinking" is MBTI terminology to begin with. Under socionics it would be called "black logics".

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    Why do you give a shit whether or not Augusta used them? They're useful shorthand notation. Get annoyed at something else; you're being uber-trivial.

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    That's it, I quit Socionics.
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    i could see how that would be important to someone who was thinking about the J/P dichotomy (my own use not in a socionics sense) and whether it would be tied to extraversion or other attributes ascribed to respective functions. Maybe grouping them implies more than it ought to according to a classical source. (btw does modern socionics exist?) That said I don't see any harm using that term .. I don't even see how it would confuse newcomers. If they do associate more into it then it's their own fault.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat
    Keep in mind, "extroverted thinking" is MBTI terminology to begin with. Under socionics it would be called "black logics".
    Actually, "extroverted thinking" is Jungian terminology. It predates MBTI. But yeah, Russian Socionists use terms such as "black logics." They also use a number of other terms and abbreviations that seem bizarre and confusing to native English speakers.

    I don't know who came up with Ji, Je, etc. I've seen others use those, instead of the more familiar and intuitive Ij, Ej...

    The one interesting thing about using them is it leads to the concept of thinking of Ti and Fi as "different forms" of Ji...which is potentially a useful concept, something worth exploring.

    I bet there's an article somewhere that uses those terms, but it's a good question where they come from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    I don't know who came up with Ji, Je, etc. I've seen others use those, instead of the more familiar and intuitive Ij, Ej...
    Anyone who does that doesn't understand the meaning of those terms, which is:

    Ti and Fi as "different forms" of Ji
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    I don't know who came up with Ji, Je, etc. I've seen others use those, instead of the more familiar and intuitive Ij, Ej...
    Except that Ji, Je, Pi and Pe refer to functions (or rather, are generalisations of functions) whereas Ij, Ej, Ip and Ep refer to actual type temperaments. To be honest I'd imagine the function generalisations have been around more or less since Jungian terminology in general was abbreviated to two letters (e.g. Fi, Te, Ni, Se etc.). I know back when I studied MBTI I recall seeing those abbreviations used a few times, although I couldn't tell you exactly where now (this was a few years ago).
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