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Thread: The architecture of dual relations

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    Default The architecture of dual relations

    Partners in a dual relationship provide support to each other and subconsciously expect to be supported. The support provided to each other in a dual relationship is complementary, not identical.

    Below are 8 dimensions through which dual partners support each other. You can identify your Socionics type by considering each dimension: what part you would naturally play in a relationship and what part you would subconsciously expect the other person to play.

    1.
    One dual (Exxx) perceives the world as objects – attentive to the qualities of objects. The other dual (Ixxx) perceives the world as ties/relationships between objects.

    2.
    One dual (xSxx) focuses on visible, quantifiable, and tangible things. The other dual (xNxx) focuses on hidden, unseen, and intangible things.

    3.
    One dual (xxTx) focuses on the logical aspects of reality. The other dual (xxFx) focuses on the emotional aspects of life.

    4.
    One dual (Exxj, Ixxp) is aware of the morphing nature of reality – one state of reality transforming into another state of reality – not thinking about still moments in reality. The other dual (Exxp, Ixxj) is aware of still moments in reality that are of pivotal importance – one still moment is followed by another still moment - not thinking about the morphing nature of reality.

    5.
    One dual (INTp, ENTj, ENFp, INFj, ISFp, ESFj, ESTp, ISTj) does most of the talking in the relationship. The other dual (INTj, ENTp, ENFj, INFp, ISFj, ESFp, ESTj, ISTp) interacts by presenting questions.

    6.
    One dual (ENTx, ESFx, ISTx, INFx) focuses on the positive aspects of a situation - what has gone and could go right, what is acceptable and plentiful. The other dual (ISFx, INTx, ENFx, ESTx) focuses on the 'negative' aspects of a situation - what has gone and could go wrong, what is missing or deficient.

    7.
    One dual (xNxj, xSxp) focuses on the goal to reach – examining, comparing and ranking goals. The other dual (xSxj, xNxp) focuses on the method/actions to be performed - examining and comparing methods to find the best.

    8.
    Dual A (xxFj, xxTp) is drawn to the ‘business’ elements of what Dual B (xxTj, xxFp) says. Dual B is drawn to the emotional elements of what Dual A says.

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    how were u able to come up with numbers 5-7? i agree with them but i was just wondering what in socionics made you come up with that
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    Indeed, 5 - 7 are very interesting.

    5 INTP talks the most...funny

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    Elzo, I think you're taking the right approach to understanding dichotomies. Keep in mind though that a lot of them blur with others. For example, do you really think ILI's talk more than SEE's?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    For example, do you really think ILI's talk more than SEE's?
    I dunno. Maybe they do within a dual relationship. *shrug*

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    Maybe. There's still overlap among the dichotomies though, imo.
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    How can dichotomies overlap?

    From what I understand, dichotomies are a classification into two opposed subclasses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elzo
    How can dichotomies overlap?

    From what I understand, dichotomies are a classification into two opposed subclasses.
    Well, I see each dichotomy as more of a continuum or spectrum (which is why there are dichotomies that some people/types seem to fall pretty close to the middle of), but that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about overlap between different sides of different dichotomies.

    For example, if declarers talk more than askers... there could be some overlap between being a declarer and being extroverted.

    Other areas where there's some similarities/overlap in traits or descriptions:
    • intuitive and introverted
    • resolute and being EP, reasonable and IJ
    • ethical and emotive, logical and constructive
    • merry and emotive, serious and constructive
    • resolute and careless
    • result and strategist, process and tactics


    (These are just a few examples, and obviously some are more difficult to explain than others, depending on the type in question to some extent.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elzo
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    For example, do you really think ILI's talk more than SEE's?
    I dunno. Maybe they do within a dual relationship. *shrug*
    My current girlfriend's an SEE, and when we first started talking to eachother I kept apologising since I was consistently going on monologues. She said she liked that though because it meant she didn't have to do as much talking. I think she definitely asked more questions than I did, at least in the early stages.
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    possibly the INTp does more talking to fulfill the ESFp's hidden agenda? How could you talk a lot in terms of ?

    by the way, i just quickly glanced at Reinin's stuff and I find it interesting however I'm not sure whether I should waste my time/energy memorizing it and really really knowing it. In your experience with Reinin, what do you think about it in terms of usefulness?
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    Default Re: The architecture of dual relations

    Quote Originally Posted by Elzo
    5.
    One dual (INTp, ENTj, ENFp, INFj, ISFp, ESFj, ESTp, ISTj) does most of the talking in the relationship. The other dual (INTj, ENTp, ENFj, INFp, ISFj, ESFp, ESTj, ISTp) interacts by presenting questions.

    6.
    One dual (ENTx, ESFx, ISTx, INFx) focuses on the positive aspects of a situation - what has gone and could go right, what is acceptable and plentiful. The other dual (ISFx, INTx, ENFx, ESTx) focuses on the 'negative' aspects of a situation - what has gone and could go wrong, what is missing or deficient.

    7.
    One dual (xNxj, xSxp) focuses on the goal to reach – examining, comparing and ranking goals. The other dual (xSxj, xNxp) focuses on the method/actions to be performed - examining and comparing methods to find the best.
    How does no. 5-7 come about? Based on your classifications, I'm an INTj because I always do the following - presenting questions, focuses on 'negative' aspects (that's why I always emphasize that I need someone who is positive and not critical to encourage me) and the goal to reach.

    Not doubting my type here since I'm a clear cut INFj. Just need some clarification on how you derive the three points.

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    Default Re: The architecture of dual relations

    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    Quote Originally Posted by Elzo
    5.
    One dual (INTp, ENTj, ENFp, INFj, ISFp, ESFj, ESTp, ISTj) does most of the talking in the relationship. The other dual (INTj, ENTp, ENFj, INFp, ISFj, ESFp, ESTj, ISTp) interacts by presenting questions.

    6.
    One dual (ENTx, ESFx, ISTx, INFx) focuses on the positive aspects of a situation - what has gone and could go right, what is acceptable and plentiful. The other dual (ISFx, INTx, ENFx, ESTx) focuses on the 'negative' aspects of a situation - what has gone and could go wrong, what is missing or deficient.

    7.
    One dual (xNxj, xSxp) focuses on the goal to reach – examining, comparing and ranking goals. The other dual (xSxj, xNxp) focuses on the method/actions to be performed - examining and comparing methods to find the best.
    How does no. 5-7 come about? Based on your classifications, I'm an INTj because I always do the following - presenting questions, focuses on 'negative' aspects (that's why I always emphasize that I need someone who is positive and not critical to encourage me) and the goal to reach.

    Not doubting my type here since I'm a clear cut INFj. Just need some clarification on how you derive the three points.
    Hate to supervise here but look at the previous page- it's based on Reinin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive
    In your experience with Reinin, what do you think about it in terms of usefulness?
    I think the whole Reinin thing varies a hell of a lot when it comes to individual experiences - some people think it's an excellent resource to help understand types better, others think it's a waste of time that contributes nothing. Personally I've only recently (past few weeks or so) bothered looking into them since previously I'd never seen what's so interesting about them, although I'm starting to think they can help understand types a bit better, but I haven't looked into them a great deal. From what I have read, there's a lot of debate going on over what the actual attributes mean, so if you're unsure about whether it's really worth reading up on it, you'd probably be best off leaving it alone for the time being. That's just my take on it though, others might have alternative views.
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    like what exactly is it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive
    possibly the INTp does more talking to fulfill the ESFp's hidden agenda? How could you talk a lot in terms of ?

    by the way, i just quickly glanced at Reinin's stuff and I find it interesting however I'm not sure whether I should waste my time/energy memorizing it and really really knowing it. In your experience with Reinin, what do you think about it in terms of usefulness?
    It's not to do with hidden agenda (or maybe it does specifically for ESFps).
    The Reinin stuff can help you with finding out your type. It's also interesting for learning differences between people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elzo
    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive
    possibly the INTp does more talking to fulfill the ESFp's hidden agenda? How could you talk a lot in terms of ?

    by the way, i just quickly glanced at Reinin's stuff and I find it interesting however I'm not sure whether I should waste my time/energy memorizing it and really really knowing it. In your experience with Reinin, what do you think about it in terms of usefulness?
    It's not to do with hidden agenda (or maybe it does specifically for ESFps).
    The Reinin stuff can help you with finding out your type. It's also interesting for learning differences between people.
    why then would an INTp talk more than an ESFp- is their first extraverted function.
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    Default Re: The architecture of dual relations

    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    Based on your classifications, I'm an INTj because I always do the following - presenting questions, focuses on 'negative' aspects (that's why I always emphasize that I need someone who is positive and not critical to encourage me) and the goal to reach.
    Maybe you usually are the one that present questions, but maybe you naturally prefer to be the main speaker and subconsciously expect others to present questions to you.

    Maybe you usually focus on negative aspects, but maybe you naturally prefer to focus on postive aspects and subconsciously expect others to focus on negative aspects.

    It could be that your circumstances are such that you need to focus on negative aspects and present questions to get by in life because you are not receiving support from people in these things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive
    why then would an INTp talk more than an ESFp- is their first extraverted function.
    On the one hand there is Model A. On the other hand there is Dichotomies. The link between the two is not clear. So I'm not sure why this is the case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive
    like what exactly is it?
    It's just a set of dichotomies (binary choices) that apply to each type. One example is Static/Dynamic, which has been discussed in the forums quite a bit lately.
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