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Thread: Deltas your views and experiences with Fe

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    Default Deltas your views and experiences with Fe

    What do you think of it, Deltas?
    Share your experiences


    So, now living with an ESFj, I am really getting the full ESE in living quarters treatment. So many questions, about everything. Particularly when I'm working. And you can tell when you don't respond to there Fe efforts to make the situation "happy", that they feel like you don't like them. Which is not the case at all, I'm just not interested in that right now. I'm busy with something.

    I will refrain from speaking about working with Fe women at this time.

    In closing I will mention the first time a teacher has tried to manipulate me, ever. She is an art teacher, and, tried to make me feel bad because I was tired in her class and yawning (It is boring material anyway, but last week was superbusy in terms of everything else going on in my life). She made it seem like I was totally disrespecting her, the class, and the art. Yet when people do that it just loses all my respect. I am very tempted to confront her on this and say - look, I do not appreciate your attempts to emotional manipulate me, or try to shame me. It is so cheap and fake.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Default Re: Fe manipulation

    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    What do you think of it, Deltas?
    In closing I will mention the first time a teacher has tried to :Fe: manipulate me, ever. She is an art teacher, and, tried to make me feel bad because I was tired in her class and yawning (It is boring material anyway, but last week was superbusy in terms of everything else going on in my life). She made it seem like I was totally disrespecting her, the class, and the art. Yet when people do that it just loses all my respect. I am very tempted to confront her on this and say - look, I do not appreciate your attempts to emotional manipulate me, or try to shame me. It is so cheap and fake.
    Don't think that's Fe manipulation. I think she was just very responsive to the lack of Fe on your part and more specifically the depletion of Fe in the classroom. If you made no attempts to hide your yawning I would take offense to this as well because... while you may not notice this, it takes away from the interest of others.
    Suomea

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    Bull! I call it manipulation. It's only gonna get worse buddy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard
    Bull! I call it manipulation. It's only gonna get worse buddy.
    I think it's more manipulation towards Fe than Fe manipulation if anything.
    Suomea

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr
    That's not ...

    Disrespecting?
    is not really about disrespect..

    If it was she would have asked, "Are you tired?" Or "Wake up." Or "Pay Attention Mr. Courage"

    She wouldn't guilt trip you into paying attention.
    That is absolutely not true hkkmr - you make it sound like there is no mean side to Fe. You must have never seen an ESFj or any other ego block type be displeased with someone.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    ESFJ's aren't very manipulative is my own experience.

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    Hm, I suppose that is legitimate. My teacher is probably ENFj... theatre, drama, .... makes sense.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr
    That's not ...

    Disrespecting?
    is not really about disrespect..

    If it was she would have asked, "Are you tired?" Or "Wake up." Or "Pay Attention Mr. Courage"

    She wouldn't guilt trip you into paying attention.
    No. Wow. I think Joy might be right you've got Fe/Fi mixed up.

    Anyway, ALL ethical types are more likely to use emotional manipulation, but they do it differently.
    INTp
    sx/sp

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    It can be and . You guys seem to forget that you are also part of the equation so if you are , then people might be more wary of you and types may act friendlier than they'd do with a type and vice versa.

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    Default Fe in delta

    What is your take on the role of Fe in members of the delta quadra?

    Personally, I find that dominants (ESFjs at least) are people that set it as a priority to ensure that there is a feeling of love or friendship in the environment, regardless if it's actually true in the inside. I do feel for them in this regard, since it must be frustrating and sad for them to not be able to sustain such an ambience or remain in a place where people openly express their feelings at the moment. I think that the question that they might not be able to answer at times is why do people choose to be negative and nasty when they can be nice and polite?

    in order in delta:
    • Third function of ESTj
      Polr for an ISTp
      Seventh function of INFj
      Eigth function of ENFp


    These are my perceptions for each of the quadra members: (I highlight to save me the effort of typing imo in all the lines :wink

    --ESTj:
    I find that they are, in general, profficient in using Fe as part of their business/enterprising mentality, and I think that it improves their personal detachment from work as well. They respond well to it, and understand its importance in the social aspects of relations. Being that Fi is their dual seeking, it might be at times confusing to distinguish between the two.

    --ISTp:
    I'm not going to write what I think an Fe polr is since it will sound really redundant, and I'm no socionics expert (besides I'm feeling a little lazy right now and don't want to make this thread too serious ). What I do know is from my experiences with ISTps. One thing I have noticed is that they are affectionate towards me and vice-versa, something that does not really happen with other types. It's like we sync in a way. However, they actually prefer to be the one giving the affection when they feel like it rather than the other way around. That gives me a little more power over them .

    --INFj:
    My theory which is based on things that I have read is that the seventh function is in a way the "put-down" function. Fe to me is something that I appreciate and mostly understand, but it tires me and makes me feel that I am not being myself. When I am in a very Fe situation I can handle my own, but after a certain period I feel that I need a break. Unfortunately, I don't really feel that I truly appreciate it. I assure you though that at times when I am alone after being positively affected, I think to myself how nice that there are Fe people in the world :wink:.

    --ENFp:
    Being that it's their 8th function, I find it hard to actually separate the person from the function in this case. I get the impression that the 8th in a way is embedded into the personality in the unconscious level. To be honest, I don't have anything to say about ENFp's and Fe, maybe they could elaborate.

    Hopefully this will be enough to start a good thread.

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    -ESTj:
    I find that they are, in general, profficient in using Fe as part of their business/enterprising mentality, and I think that it improves their personal detachment from work as well. They respond well to it, and understand its importance in the social aspects of relations. Being that Fi is their dual seeking, it might be at times confusing to distinguish between the two.
    I'm a heavy Te subtype, so it might be different for me than most. Fe is only there for me if it helps work, of if I feel the team needs a boost. I don't mind it so long as the team is productive. As it says on this profile......

    "Rage is a mighty god of the strong". He tends to take other people out of the condition of complacency. He does not speak much about what is good, considers it self-evident. With his grumbling emotions he strives to extinguish emotions of others. He believes that redundant emotions tire people, and this is absolutely true if applied to his dual (The Humanist). During a conversation he pressures his interlocutor, even tries to intimidate him, but if people do not fear him, he becomes courteous and polite. Fury is his line of defense in a situation of emergency in which he feels otherwise helpless. The aim of his fury is to mobilize his partner, and when this is achieved, he calms down.
    http://the16types.info/types.php?typename=ESTJ

    That is generally how I use Fe.


    I generally do not offer a lot of Fe to other people if I am just going about my business. But that isn't necessarily a good thing. I know I need to be a bit nicer and more bubbly than I am currently to come off as a super nice guy. Yet for me right now I am still trying to figure out how to play my cards right - I am mature and somewhat reserved (signature), and yet, I want to do what I need to in order to properly facilitate things.


    I would say Fe is very related to Si for ESTjs, because if their Si is uncomfortable, or Fi not comfortable (ethical rules of the situation), then their Fe usage will not be as positive as it could be. For me it seems a decent part of Fe is planning, and knowing ahead of time, how you want to act and respond to things. But that is going more in depth, perhaps unnecessarily at this time.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    The ESTj's reaction to is poor, from my observations. They can easily distingush between and as they cannot handle naturally.
    ISTj.

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    Like LIEs I suppose, our version of Fe is just "force"!

    I would not say I handle it very well in general. Not artfully.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    I'm a heavy Te subtype, so it might be different for me than most. Fe is only there for me if it helps work, of if I feel the team needs a boost. I don't mind it so long as the team is productive. As it says on this profile......

    Quote:
    "Rage is a mighty god of the strong". He tends to take other people out of the condition of complacency. He does not speak much about what is good, considers it self-evident. With his grumbling emotions he strives to extinguish emotions of others. He believes that redundant emotions tire people, and this is absolutely true if applied to his dual (The Humanist). During a conversation he pressures his interlocutor, even tries to intimidate him, but if people do not fear him, he becomes courteous and polite. Fury is his line of defense in a situation of emergency in which he feels otherwise helpless. The aim of his fury is to mobilize his partner, and when this is achieved, he calms down.
    http://the16types.info/types.php?typename=ESTJ

    That is generally how I use Fe.
    Where exactly in the quote are you referring to about Fe? the courteous and polite part?

    I believe that the paragraph is explaining Te rather than Fe. Extinguishing emotions for productivity is definitely not Fe. I do know what the line in the description means all too well.

    I generally do not offer a lot of Fe to other people if I am just going about my business. But that isn't necessarily a good thing. I know I need to be a bit nicer and more bubbly than I am currently to come off as a super nice guy. Yet for me right now I am still trying to figure out how to play my cards right - I am mature and somewhat reserved (signature), and yet, I want to do what I need to in order to properly facilitate things.

    Like LIEs I suppose, our version of Fe is just "force"!

    I would not say I handle it very well in general. Not artfully
    Do you think "influencing" describes it better than "force"?

    mr_maguoo Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:49 am Post subject:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The ESTj's reaction to Fe is poor, from my observations. They can easily distingush between Fe and Fi as they cannot handle Fe naturally.
    Well... It depends on the situation. I have met ESTjs who seem to prefer Fe, especially around peers (this assuming that they are aware of the Fi dual-seeking). I guess it's because they want to impress them or look "cool". They are one way when alone, then another person with other people. That's one difference between Fe and Fi. Also, I can only offer speculation since I don't really understand what's going on in their minds; why they choose to do some things rather than others. What I do know, and to what I believe is a high level of accuracy, when something is Fe or Fi based. What it comes down to is consistency and intent. Fe changes with the situation and the people to influence, while Fi does not. Based on preference I am more towards Fi than Ne, which might make me more perceptive to these differences.

    You could also use ISTps as your pH measure, they feel the difference alright...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno
    Do you think "influencing" describes it better than "force"?
    Not sure

    Well... It depends on the situation. I have met ESTjs who seem to prefer Fe, especially around peers (this assuming that they are aware of the Fi dual-seeking). I guess it's because they want to impress them or look "cool"
    I would say that when i am comfortable with my Fi bond with people, Fe comes very easily.

    They are one way when alone, then another person with other people. That's one difference between Fe and Fi. Also, I can only offer speculation since I don't really understand what's going on in their minds; why they choose to do some things rather than others. What I do know, and to what I believe is a high level of accuracy, when something is Fe or Fi based. What it comes down to is consistency and intent. Fe changes with the situation and the people to influence, while Fi does not.
    Doesn't that last part contradict what you said at the beginning of the paragraph? "They are one way when alone, then another person with other people."

    I would say that I am different with people based on my Fi bond and loyalty to them. If I think someone is just passing by, I am not going to warm up to them easily. If I know someone for a long time, I can joke and have fun much more easily.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Courage Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:33 am Post subject:

    Quote:
    They are one way when alone, then another person with other people. That's one difference between Fe and Fi. Also, I can only offer speculation since I don't really understand what's going on in their minds; why they choose to do some things rather than others. What I do know, and to what I believe is a high level of accuracy, when something is Fe or Fi based. What it comes down to is consistency and intent. Fe changes with the situation and the people to influence, while Fi does not.
    Doesn't that last part contradict what you said at the beginning of the paragraph? "They are one way when alone, then another person with other people."

    I would say that I am different with people based on my Fi bond and loyalty to them. If I think someone is just passing by, I am not going to warm up to them easily. If I know someone for a long time, I can joke and have fun much more easily.
    What I meant was that some ESTjs (not all) apply Fe more readily than Fi in varying social situations. That is why they tend to "change" based on the type of people and situation. It's knowing how to treat someone for influencing purposes. To be honest, Fi does prove to be a weakness in situations involving a majority of people who dislike Fi, or don't have an interest to it. I think that in those situations the better choice is Fe: the detached diplomacy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    I would say that when i am comfortable with my Fi bond with people, Fe comes very easily.

    I would say that I am different with people based on my Fi bond and loyalty to them. If I think someone is just passing by, I am not going to warm up to them easily. If I know someone for a long time, I can joke and have fun much more easily.
    So would you say that your Fe is directed by your Fi? That might not be the best way to put it. Is it something like Fi represents your inner subjective state and when this is satisfied in some way, Fe comes easily because in this case it isn't an act? I guess what I'm getting at is that Fe (I suppose generalized to the ESTJ type, though I hesitate to do that) comes naturally when it is a reflection of sincere inner feelings. That's probably too vague to really be useful, but what do you think, Courage?

    As for the INFJ case, I like the OP's description. It's sort of like I can involve myself in the expression of Fe for a short while. Ultimately though, it's very tiring to do, especially if it doesn't jive with what I'm feeling, and if it were in complete contradiction then it almost certainly can't (or won't, I suppose) happen. Times like those just seem like I'm trying to be someone other than who I really am. Generally though, I can play along because it satisfies the people I care about, even if it doesn't satisfy me quite as much as it does them. That's not to say that I don't actually enjoy myself. I do. It just isn't the same as the deeper, more fulfilling times I have when I get to know someone better, what it is that makes their eyes light up. You know, the kind of things that you can talk about for hours without ever getting tired. I think that's why I never quite enjoyed huge parties. That side almost never seems to come to the fore and, without it, Fe ends up seeming like just empty expression. I'll do it to try to evoke in them genuine and positive feeling (my true goal), but if that's impossible, if all it is trading smiles that go no deeper than the skin, then I know I don't belong or I'm not needed, so I bail. If I can't do that (if I caught a ride, for example), then I usually start slamming shots. I couldn't tell you why, but that helps me show much more Fe (although my self-image suffers for it). I'm also more likely to show my Fi then too, but if it's negative stuff, then I feel an irrepressible urge to get away from everyone I don't know, usually by just taking a walk by myself for ten or fifteen minutes to reflect on whatever is getting at me before heading back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2
    I guess what I'm getting at is that Fe (I suppose generalized to the ESTJ type, though I hesitate to do that) comes naturally when it is a reflection of sincere inner feelings. That's probably too vague to really be useful, but what do you think, Courage?
    Yes, very good. That is it.
    I cannot contradict my inner state, and I cannot fake emotions either. My emotional sincerity, perhaps, is too much for some people to bear (because when I am not feeling it, I am just not feeling it at all. But when I do, I feel it all the way...)

    It is sort of an extreme take on "honesty", if you will. The good and bad aspects of it.


    I do. It just isn't the same as the deeper, more fulfilling times I have when I get to know someone better, what it is that makes their eyes light up. You know, the kind of things that you can talk about for hours without ever getting tired. I think that's why I never quite enjoyed huge parties. That side almost never seems to come to the fore and, without it, Fe ends up seeming like just empty expression. I'll do it to try to evoke in them genuine and positive feeling (my true goal), but if that's impossible, if all it is trading smiles that go no deeper than the skin, then I know I don't belong or I'm not needed, so I bail.
    I support you completely - I would be glad to have someone like that as my dual.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    UDP, take a look at the first paragraph of Strasevskaya's description of Fe in ESTjs to understand what some people refer to when they speak about ESTjs trying to appear "cool" among their peers by using the aforementioned function. I do not have observed such in all the ESTjs I know, nor I think strats is an authority over every type, but it might be worth mentioning.
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    Ok, here is an audiovisual:

    [youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=k76dwQMhpzk[/youtube]


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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    UDP, take a look at the first paragraph of Strasevskaya's description of Fe in ESTjs to understand what some people refer to when they speak about ESTjs trying to appear "cool" among their peers by using the aforementioned function. I do not have observed such in all the ESTjs I know, nor I think strats is an authority over every type, but it might be worth mentioning.
    Let's look at the first two...


    Extraverted Feeling Block Of superego*e-ya pozitsiya*Normativnaya function * the "ethics of emotions"
    In the unfamiliar company he tries to develop the role of such bodryachka, undispairing jovial merry fellow, it jokes, it smiles. He tries to be maximally polite and amiable with all. New familiar patiently it listens, regardless of the fact, it is interesting to it or not, it nods agreement, it agrees, sympathy is expressed. If to it they tell any dusheshchipatel'nuyu history, it reacts in the manner that one should, in his opinion, react in this situation - it can burst into tears, moreover it is sufficiently demonstrative. (and although in the depth of the soul Of shtirlits is actually sentimental, it do not consider it necessary this to hide, at least, in its nearest environment.)
    I can see this, yes.

    Especially vividly its sentimentality is manifested in the situation of family celebrations or meetings in the friendly to the circle: when they congratulate it, they mention about its merits, manifest to it their respect and honors, face Of shtirlitsa assumes childlishly happy expression and its positive emotions begin to acquire some completely unpredictable forms. Its this state so strongly disturbs, that involuntarily appears its desire somehow slightly to quiet (which magnificently feels and makes its dual Dostoyevsky). It is very vulnerable and defenseless at the moment of this emotional lift Of shtirlits. Usually recollection about experience of idyll it preserves sufficiently for long and even some time it shares by its impressions with those surrounding. (from the side it can even seem that its rastrogannost' is somewhat exaggerated, but do not give god to express distrust to his enthusiastic state and these to spoil to it holiday - it will be more than uyazvlen: its ecstasy immediately will pass into the extreme irritation, since it will immediately feel itself it will very uncomfortably and compulsorily find any method to take vengeance for the damaged mood)
    But that aspect of it is also important.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    [quote="Courage"]

    Its this state so strongly disturbs, that involuntarily appears its desire somehow slightly to quiet (which magnificently feels and makes its dual Dostoyevsky). It is very vulnerable and defenseless at the moment of this emotional lift Of shtirlits.
    Courage? Will you please explain what these sentences mean? I don't understand the translation. . .
    EII 4w5

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    --ENFp:
    Being that it's their 8th function, I find it hard to actually separate the person from the function in this case. I get the impression that the 8th in a way is embedded into the personality in the unconscious level. To be honest, I don't have anything to say about ENFp's and Fe, maybe they could elaborate.
    I've just met a IEE (in a working capcity) and she seemed to go from being very friendly and warm and talkative to suddenly absolutely withdrawn and on the face of it a little rude (she never seems to say goodbye, EVER).
    I was a little shocked when she first did it and completely confused and then I realised that she is generally like this and that I should just get used to it.

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    Default Seeing Fe as a burden, especially when stressed

    Do you relate to that, deltas?

    It's something I'm seeing more and more - and even see it in myself to some extent, but also in delta NFs.

    Talking to one NF, it was interesting to see how dealing with "Fe", or what I more specifically mean here, dealing with emotions and niceties and pleasantries and all that stuff - it is ultimately seen as burdensome, or annoying.

    That seems to especially be the case when tired or 'fed up', emphasis on Fe just goes out the window. It's almost like an overload, or maximum capacity reached.

    I'm torn because I relate to it very much, but at the same time, I feel 'influenced' by certain things, or like I 'ought to care', even if I don't really care. Maybe that is just part of Fe role for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Do you relate to that, deltas?

    It's something I'm seeing more and more - and even see it in myself to some extent, but also in delta NFs.

    Talking to one NF, it was interesting to see how dealing with "Fe", or what I more specifically mean here, dealing with emotions and niceties and pleasantries and all that stuff - it is ultimately seen as burdensome, or annoying.

    That seems to especially be the case when tired or 'fed up', emphasis on Fe just goes out the window. It's almost like an overload, or maximum capacity reached.

    I'm torn because I relate to it very much, but at the same time, I feel 'influenced' by certain things, or like I 'ought to care', even if I don't really care. Maybe that is just part of Fe role for me.
    the pleasantries thing is not something i generally put much energy towards to begin with. i do apply social lubrication in daily interaction as much as i feel is expected of me/required for me to skate along, but i dont put much thought into it and i wouldnt call it a drain...though it depends a lot on the environment and the people involved, of course. i think i'm often perceived as a loner or misanthrope by more effusive types because of my lack of attendance to that sort of thing, but frankly that doesnt weigh very heavily on me. i tend to find that sort of judgment kind of easy to dismiss because...well, i guess because i know its incorrect.

    maybe its more taxing on Fe role or maybe being SO-last is a major factor in my case. i dont know.

    as far as more genuine emotional displays (which is more how i tend to see Fe i think) i'm probably quicker to show emotion when i'm under stress. no idea how that plays into theory, though. i think my default is to maintain a certain control in order to facilitate stability and nonintrusion or something, and this is harder to do as i get more burdened with stressors. no idea if this is normal for my type or what.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Do you relate to that, deltas?

    It's something I'm seeing more and more - and even see it in myself to some extent, but also in delta NFs.

    Talking to one NF, it was interesting to see how dealing with "Fe", or what I more specifically mean here, dealing with emotions and niceties and pleasantries and all that stuff - it is ultimately seen as burdensome, or annoying.

    That seems to especially be the case when tired or 'fed up', emphasis on Fe just goes out the window. It's almost like an overload, or maximum capacity reached.


    .
    Yes. Highly draining, especially if i dont already have a positive Fi connection with that person (but then it's not pleasantries). And like you said, if i'm tired/stressed/sleep-deprived, ANYONE.
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    Yes, I do see it as a burden, but I see it something that applies to Fe valuers as well... Without a specific example I might not be getting at what you mean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo View Post
    Yes, I do see it as a burden, but I see it something that applies to Fe valuers as well... Without a specific example I might not be getting at what you mean.
    ya, i don't think anybody is a huge fan of pleasantries if that's what you mean.

    my initial post was this boring ramble about semantics and what Fe means, blah, blah, before i just deleted and decided to wing it and try to address his question, lol.

    so i agree that an example would be helpful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    ya, i don't think anybody is a huge fan of pleasantries if that's what you mean.

    my initial post was this boring ramble about semantics and what Fe means, blah, blah, before i just deleted and decided to wing it and try to address his question, lol.

    so i agree that an example would be helpful.
    Ryu's just having a bad day... that's what happens to geeks from time to time. Here is some nice Fe to counteract his sucky mood:


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    I actually had a really good day.

    But Lobo knows the inner workings of my heart, yes. For this I despise him and love him, both intimately.

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    I can relate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
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    Being introverted and Fi valuing it's a lot of work to maintain friendship. Especially when the person has weak and you're expected to cater to it. I don't mind chatting, but it's stressful to fake emotions when I certainly don't feel that way and it seems like I'm doing all the work. It's so burdensome, I have intentions to only have friends.

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    So if I understand properly, it's about outward emotional expression and manipulation?

    So a ego would feel that they absolutely, positively have to express whatever it is they're feeling in response to any big event, and if, in a group they find that someone's mood doesn't match the rest of they group they take action to modify that person's feelings, possibly even against their will?

    From that perspective I can see how that would get really annoying really quickly. In fact, it's kind of difficult to see myself as creative even though I probably am.

    So how do you deal with too much ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Knight View Post
    So if I understand properly, it's about outward emotional expression and manipulation?
    In it's most crude definition, perhaps.

    Perhaps something like "external acknowledgment/meeting of emotional states" -- at least as per the context I was talking about.

    An Fe dominant person (or even ego) will sort of "check" you to see if what they do will produce a visible or noticable 'response' or 'reaction'..... to be really crude, still.

    So a ego would feel that they absolutely, positively have to express whatever it is they're feeling in response to any big event, and if,
    No. (absolutes and positively generally isn't a goodway to define things)

    Maybe more so with dominant types or subtypes that are Fe. But creative people, or other more 'mellow' Fe egos may be more cautious or biding in their use of Fe, wanting to create a certain emotional state in response to it. Whatever the situation, they feel somewhat responsible towards shifting, supporting, or encouraging the moods of someone else.

    Other types with strong Fe will also feel this way, but, if you have strong but unvalued Fe, it probably won't be "as big a deal", or even, potentially burdensome. Even Fe valuing types can feel burdened by 'their labor' of regulating emotions or emotional states, but it's more something they feel is 'essential', whereas Fi valuing types (unvalued Fe) see it more as perhaps important but not vital - an unnecessary social niecety that only really is useful in terms of supporting their more valued Fi opinions.

    I really don't like how I wrote that, it can still be very misleading : /

    in a group they find that someone's mood doesn't match the rest of they group they take action to modify that person's feelings, possibly even against their will?
    For someone who "doesn't really like Fe", that's how it might seem. Granted I know some IEIs who feel that way, about people trying to get them all in a huff and puff about stuff they don't care about.

    But in a crude, reduced sense, sure.

    To someone who really doesn't like that sort of "Fe badgering" or "consensus-of-emotional-state seeking", it will feel very uncomfortable. Almost like you're being asked to lie about something, or be dishonest -- because your personal feelings or your beliefs in what is true would prevail.

    For example, I tend to negatively react towards anyone trying to intentionally get me to feel a certain way - even if it's actually a loved one who wants me to 'feel happy'. I don't like someone using contrived means to procure an 'emotional result' from me. When people do that it tends to blow up in their face, or they get frustrated, or more agitated.


    From that perspective I can see how that would get really annoying really quickly. In fact, it's kind of difficult to see myself as creative even though I probably am.
    I know some Fe creatives who are much more passive about it, especially irrational subtypes. They might even find themselves more desirous of getting people to really express what it is they are thinking, regardless of what 'the norm' is.

    None of this, everything I've written in this post, is particularly salient or ultimately determining of what someone's type is. It's just part of it all, a very incomplete part.

    So how do you deal with too much ?
    Avoid. Shift towards something "more productive" or "more useful". Or more entertaining to me.

    If it's coming from a specific person, I try to get them to see that certain things don't work for me, or, if they want better results, give them other ways of getting what they want, things like that.

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    The description for Fe I'm working with came from Filatova's book, which seems to be rather simplistic in general, as a "general introduction to socionics" book likely should be.

    Still, thank you for taking the time to spell that out.
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    Yes, constantly. My biggest issues with Fe has been

    *Fe valuers presuming motivations that don't exist on my part ("this is what you really meant [to say]" etc)
    *Assuming feelings that do or don't exist ("you didn't like this [gift] did you? You don't look pleased", "are you depressed?/What's wrong with you?/What's your problem?" all because I'm not emotionally reacting)
    *Some Fe/Ti's tuning me out because I'm dampening the emotional atmosphere (i.e. not smiling and acting positively, possibly pointing out fallacious information stated as factual or pointing out offensiveness, thus means I'm a cold b!tch to them)

    I could probably write a longer list but I'm a bit tired atm. I remember when Akra posted here about a trip to Disney World (or land, don't remember) and becoming drained by all the Fe there, which was my exact issue when going there with my own family. All the attempts from staff and such to get me to smile and act "happy happy happy" weighed down on me to such an extent that I was overjoyed to leave; I felt like being me there was ruining something for others (as weird as that may sound) which is one of the reasons I try to avoid gatherings (clubs, parties, etc) where people don't know me and thus might judge me on my lack of reactivity

    This is something I can really relate with Fe PoLR's on, that being me not wanting to have to fuel the Fe but at the same time not necessarily wanting to ruin it for others and thus be judged negativity for it.
    I'd rather external positivity not be a requirement but a byproduct of how I may, or may not, express those feelings

    For example, I tend to negatively react towards anyone trying to intentionally get me to feel a certain way - even if it's actually a loved one who wants me to 'feel happy'. I don't like someone using contrived means to procure an 'emotional result' from me. When people do that it tends to blow up in their face, or they get frustrated, or more agitated.
    yeah I could see Te dominants being more openly defiant to having this pushed on them.
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    ya, marie, that list. /empathy

    especially the second one. as bizarre as it might sound, opening gifts can be a stressful experience, heh. it sucks when people think you dislike them or dont appreciate things theyve said/done bc of the lack of immediate outward "evidence" of that form. i think the worst part of dealing with Fe is when it messes up Fi. (which is maybe obvious, hence why its in the id, but i hadnt thought of this before.)

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    ya, it can be annoying. But I fake it pretty well. I just do the minimum required to convincingly Fe fake it.

    My mom is ISFp and my sister is an ENFj so I grew up w/ some good examples of how to pretend to like/hate things.

    Oh NOOO...oh that is AWFUL (sad face)
    SO GOOD to see YOU! yay! (excited face)

    Ok, actually, maybe I suck at Fe. But I do the minimum though...
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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    I know Fe isn't my style, but I don't think it's PoLR now. If I'm not geniunely into something, I still know what's expected. I'll make a choice, rather than accidentally step on toes. If someone expects me to be really affirming, I'm the person who sort of has an indifferent smile at least. I may not be excited about the same thing myself, but I'll acknowledge their mood. It's just a wild guess, but it seems this might be more typical of INj or ISj.

    edit: Well, I was only partly right.

    The ESI is aware of the need to keep a "polite façade" in certain social and professional situations, even in the presence of people he personally dislikes, or during periods of negative inner emotions, but he refuses to actively attempt to integrate in, or promote, a positive external emotional atmosphere in such occasions: to the ESI, that would mean crossing the line from politeness into hypocrisy. The ESI's disinclination for doing so increases along with his feelings of closeness with the individuals present.

    EIIs can become expressive and very lively in groups for brief periods of time, but they always gravitate to deep, focused communication between two people or a small, close-knit group. They tend to shun wildness and prefer serious, more sensitive communication.
    EIIs are usually very straightforward about their feelings in front of others; what you see from them is what you get. Even at a party where everyone is supposed to be happy, they still find it hard to conceal their true feelings when they are in a bad mood. This can create distaste among the rest who feel that the EII is not cooperating by contributing to the positive and boisterous mood. This tends to lead others who don't know the EII well to have a misconception that he/she is a grouchy person by nature.

    Being a naturally private person, the LII finds it difficult to believe that others would be interested in what he is thinking or feeling at any given moment. He feels like something is not quite right if his interaction with the people around him is too aloof. However he only rarely makes an effort to venture into more open spheres, because he usually avoids making small talk, preferring to talk about his real interests and say only what he truly believes.
    Last edited by stray; 12-19-2010 at 11:14 AM.

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