Do INTjs identify with her rationale behind subjectivity?

[eunice]

I recently introduced a (supposedly) INTj friend who is interested to find out about Socionics to a few Socionics tests before sharing with her more about the theory. Based on my personal observatons, I had deduced her as a possible INTj, but I'm not sure now. Anyway, she checked out the 16types.info test first and attempted to do it before giving up after three questions. I wonder do INTjs here associate with her rationale behind her actions because I thought the reply she gave me might be very revealing of her preferences.:

Excerpts of our conversation:

Friend: I gave up after attempting three questions. I have a hard time selecting the best option because the choices are not straightforward. I'm trying to choose the option which emcompasses everything about me. I ended up taking around three minutes to think over each question. At this rate, I will end up using 600 minutes for the whole test! Moreover, having it on a Likert scale makes my decision even more difficult. I don't like to rate something on a scale between 1 to 5. How do I know my strength of preference is a "three" since it is very subjective matter? I mean, what I consider a "three" might be what you consider a "two".

Me: Well, you don't have to treat it so seriously. You just choose the option that generally describes you and you don't have to be bothered about how others might perceive your strength of preference. Taking too much time on each question would render your response unaccurate. It is better you complete it fast because you will be recalling your natural response to that situation rather than thinking over too much and twisting your answer.

Friend: Erm.....to me, if I don't give the best answer to each option and if it applies to all the 200+ questions in the test, I would be getting inaccurate results as a whole. Can you recommend me another test which is more certain i.e. less choices? I prefer a "true/false" or "yes/no" test because it is more certain and less confusing to everyone.

Me: ok. What about Socionics Type Assistant? You will be given two lists of adjectives. On the first list, you choose the words that best describe you, and you choose the words that least describe you on the second list. Moreover, you will be given the definition behind the adjectives as well.

Friend: Sounds great to me. OK, I will try that one instead.

She hasn't done the test yet since we only had our conversation yesterday night, but something about her response tells me that she might not be my look-a-like.

[Suomea]

I recently introduced a (supposedly) INTj friend who is interested to find out about Socionics to a few Socionics tests before sharing with her more about the theory. Based on my personal observatons, I had deduced her as a possible INTj, but I'm not sure now. Anyway, she checked out the 16types.info test first and attempted to do it before giving up after three questions. I wonder do INTjs here associate with her rationale behind her actions because I thought the reply she gave me might be very revealing of her preferences.:

Excerpts of our conversation:

Friend: I gave up after attempting three questions. I have a hard time selecting the best option because the choices are not straightforward. I'm trying to choose the option which emcompasses everything about me. I ended up taking around three minutes to think over each question. At this rate, I will end up using 600 minutes for the whole test! Moreover, having it on a Likert scale makes my decision even more difficult. I don't like to rate something on a scale between 1 to 5. How do I know my strength of preference is a "three" since it is very subjective matter? I mean, what I consider a "three" might be what you consider a "two".

Me: :lol: Well, you don't have to treat it so seriously. You just choose the option that generally describes you and you don't have to be bothered about how others might perceive your strength of preference. Taking too much time on each question would render your response unaccurate. It is better you complete it fast because you will be recalling your natural response to that situation rather than thinking over too much and twisting your answer.

Friend: Erm.....to me, if I don't give the best answer to each option and if it applies to all the 200+ questions in the test, I would be getting inaccurate results as a whole. Can you recommend me another test which is more certain i.e. less choices? I prefer a "true/false" or "yes/no" test because it is more certain and less confusing to everyone.

Me: ok. What about Socionics Type Assistant? You will be given two lists of adjectives. On the first list, you choose the words that best describe you, and you choose the words that least describe you on the second list. Moreover, you will be given the definition behind the adjectives as well.

Friend: Sounds great to me. OK, I will try that one instead.

She hasn't done the test yet since we only had our conversation yesterday night, but something about her response tells me that she might not be my look-a-like.

My best friend from High School who I have typed as an INTj I tried to get to take an MBTI test around a year ago...... he was completely unable to do it and gave up after 3 questions as well. He tried it again and the same thing happened. Kept on saying "It's impossible to answer whether I'm this or I'm this because I'm both of them.... and sometimes I do this and sometimes I don't." And I'm like "it's a forced answer question.... in the end if you answer incorrectly on a couple it really won't affect the result." He got really flustered though.

[Phaedrus]

Let her start with Ganin's simple Turbo test instead. Let her choose between the four dichotomies. That is really a more reliable way to go in this and similar cases.

[strrrng]

I would expect INTj's to want straight-forward, logical questions. I have had problems like this in the past also.

[eunice]

My friend has just gotten back to me. She scored as an ESFj from Socionics Type Assistant. Apparently, she had done online MBTI tests before and she evolved from an ISFp to an ENFj to an ISFj. It was the first Socionics test she had done. At least I got the quadra right.

[Expat]

I think it's more likely that she has Ti in super-id than in the ego.

[Tov]

I feel the same way about that test, but my explaination is a little different. What that test is trying to do is take an objective subject matter and analyze it in subjective terms. In the end the answers only have meaning to the person who answered the questions since their idea of a 3 out of 5 might be the same as a 1 out of 5 to me. This same thing has been discussed plenty of time when it comes to talking about the functions and theory and yet no one seems to notice it about this test. It's a big waste of time to take the test and I can't justify spending all the time I would have to spend to do all 200 some questions.

Also expat I would like to know why you think Ti would be in her super-id block?

[implied]

Friend: I gave up after attempting three questions. I have a hard time selecting the best option because the choices are not straightforward. I'm trying to choose the option which emcompasses everything about me. I ended up taking around three minutes to think over each question. At this rate, I will end up using 600 minutes for the whole test! Moreover, having it on a Likert scale makes my decision even more difficult. I don't like to rate something on a scale between 1 to 5. How do I know my strength of preference is a "three" since it is very subjective matter? I mean, what I consider a "three" might be what you consider a "two".

i don't know but i want to strangle people who reason like this. i've been dealing with a woman who does this lately and i am ready to kill her!

[Logos]

Friend: I gave up after attempting three questions. I have a hard time selecting the best option because the choices are not straightforward. I'm trying to choose the option which emcompasses everything about me. I ended up taking around three minutes to think over each question. At this rate, I will end up using 600 minutes for the whole test! Moreover, having it on a Likert scale makes my decision even more difficult. I don't like to rate something on a scale between 1 to 5. How do I know my strength of preference is a "three" since it is very subjective matter? I mean, what I consider a "three" might be what you consider a "two".

i don't know but i want to strangle people who reason like this. i've been dealing with a woman who does this lately and i am ready to kill her!

Why? It is a fairly common criticism about the Likert Scale, and one of the cautions often mentioned in terms of political opinion polling.

[implied]

Friend: I gave up after attempting three questions. I have a hard time selecting the best option because the choices are not straightforward. I'm trying to choose the option which emcompasses everything about me. I ended up taking around three minutes to think over each question. At this rate, I will end up using 600 minutes for the whole test! Moreover, having it on a Likert scale makes my decision even more difficult. I don't like to rate something on a scale between 1 to 5. How do I know my strength of preference is a "three" since it is very subjective matter? I mean, what I consider a "three" might be what you consider a "two".

i don't know but i want to strangle people who reason like this. i've been dealing with a woman who does this lately and i am ready to kill her!

Why? It is a fairly common criticism about the Likert Scale, and one of the cautions often mentioned in terms of political opinion polling.

not necessarily the criticism of the likert scale, just the sort of reasoning i was bugged by. it has nothing to do with any criticisms of the likert scale. it seems like a sort of "everyone has their own way" thing.

[Joy]

The adjective test is absolutely horrible. So is an 4 dichotomy test.

Anyways, she doesn't sound ESFj to me... Beta NF seems more likely than ESFj. ENFj perhaps.

It would be far more useful if you describe this person, eunice. Tests are counter productive to learning one's type.

[Logos]

Friend: I gave up after attempting three questions. I have a hard time selecting the best option because the choices are not straightforward. I'm trying to choose the option which emcompasses everything about me. I ended up taking around three minutes to think over each question. At this rate, I will end up using 600 minutes for the whole test! Moreover, having it on a Likert scale makes my decision even more difficult. I don't like to rate something on a scale between 1 to 5. How do I know my strength of preference is a "three" since it is very subjective matter? I mean, what I consider a "three" might be what you consider a "two".

i don't know but i want to strangle people who reason like this. i've been dealing with a woman who does this lately and i am ready to kill her!

Why? It is a fairly common criticism about the Likert Scale, and one of the cautions often mentioned in terms of political opinion polling.

not necessarily the criticism of the likert scale, just the sort of reasoning i was bugged by. it has nothing to do with any criticisms of the likert scale. it seems like a sort of "everyone has their own way" thing.

By which parts of the reasoning then were you bugged?

The adjective test is absolutely horrible. So is an 4 dichotomy test.

Anyways, she doesn't sound ESFj to me... Beta NF seems more likely than ESFj. ENFj perhaps.

It would be far more useful if you describe this person, eunice. Tests are counter productive to learning one's type.

I was going to say, just going off of anecdotal evidence here, but my ENFj mother has a similar problem (as well as this being a similar and frequent criticism I hear of hers regarding "personality tests").

[Joy]

problem?

[marooned]

Re: eunice

I wonder if she's not much for ... ? Being able to look at a dichotomy and rate yourself on it on a scale to 1-5 seems to be rather oriented... you need to have a feel for the length of the interval, for how to see it between each end, and then "know" where on it you fall. But it's possible that's just more what I do and there are other ways. ???

[Logos]

problem?

Yes, problem.

[marooned]

I was thinking about this more...

I gave up after attempting three questions. I have a hard time selecting the best option because the choices are not straightforward. I'm trying to choose the option which emcompasses everything about me.

This still seems like low ... "the questions aren't straight forward enough" to rate herself on a scale of 1-5. As for the expectation of looking for what encompasses everything about her... maybe that's over-analyzing... inadequately balanced by .

I ended up taking around three minutes to think over each question. At this rate, I will end up using 600 minutes for the whole test!

way over-analyzing. way too much without balance.

Moreover, having it on a Likert scale makes my decision even more difficult. I don't like to rate something on a scale between 1 to 5. How do I know my strength of preference is a "three" since it is very subjective matter? I mean, what I consider a "three" might be what you consider a "two".

I don't know what this is... again I think it's a emphasis... I think I do this sometimes, but I resolve it by looking at how the test is framed. Like if it says "rate yourself" then all I really need to concern myself with is "rating myself." Yeah, the test may be a load of crap and when I'm done rating myself I may find that the results sound nothing like me. But I could always take it again then (except in this case where it's just too long for that ). I think the point is that she's emphasizing complete accuracy. She wants the answers to be the most accurate of her personality that they can be. So she devotes about 3 minutes to answering a question so she can be "certain." This part confuses me in terms of . I mean the problem with thinking about how you perceive yourself vs. how others perceive you, or how your answers may be dependent on how you're feeling at the time... so on... could pertain to . "Rate yourself" then has so many possible meanings that it might seem "overwhelming." Meh. Maybe she belongs to an valuing quadra, but doesn't have in the ego block. Because doesn't seem to be balanced with then perhaps she's an F type.

It could also be that I have no idea what I'm talking about.

[Joy]

problem?

Yes, problem.

What problem?

[Mea]

I think Friend has Ti preference?
Ti dual seeking?

[eunice]

I'm very surprised that my friend came out as an ESFj and it has defied all stereotypes I have about the type.

More info about my friend and examples of our interaction:

*She mentioned before that I'm someone who is very urgent and doesn't allow her time to think through. For instance, when I explained about Socionics through online messaging, she claimed that I was moving too fast and basically giving her info after info without giving her time to digest. To me, I just wanted to write down everything which was on my mind so that she could slowly read them later. However, she preferred to digest them section by section rather than in a flow. As such, she claimed that she might be a slow learner since she couldn't adjust to my line of thoughts. I don't like to be interrupted, but she thinks that it's necessary for me to pause at certain junctures so that she can ask questions. She constantly tells me to relax because she felt that I'm kind of uptight and rushing, even though I don't feel that way at all.

*To her, she feels that I don't change much. She regards her personality as constantly changing and this extends to her interest and hobbies as well. She is easily excited by new things and she doesn't pursue a particular hobby very often after she had switched her attention to something else.

*She is knowledgeable about IT stuff. I would usually seek advice from her about hardwares and softwares, and other technical issues. She used to be in the Computer Club in junior college as well. Nevertheless, she is currently majoring in Building and she is very good in hands-on activities such as Design & Technology. I'm kind of confused by her interest because she once mentioned to me that she has always wanted to pursue a career in Human Resources, but she hasn't done anything related to it. It appears to me that it seems exciting for her because she doesn't know much about it.

*She is not a very loud or dramatic person. However, I will consider her friendly, sociable, outgoing and someone who has a lot of friends. Appearance-wise, she seems bookish, but she is confident about her appearance. In school, she is someone who studies and plays hard. She would study all the time and participate actively in her guitar activities. Outside school, she would go out with her friends and dress in clothes which complimented her figure (i.e. more revealing clothes), go partying, swimming, having meals, watching movies etc. Ppl who don't know her well are surprised by her transformation.

*Hobbies: computer games, reading (particularly detective and sci-fic novels), guitar, taekwondo, swimming

*A couple of years back, there was once I confided in her a problem which I had faced in my new school. She kept quiet when I shared my experience, but she brought up the matter after I had graduated. She felt that my worries were ridiculous and I should be looking out for an alternative rather than facing the problem head-on and trying hard to solve it. When I asked her why she didn't tell me how she had felt at that point of time, she was like, "oh, I didn't want to hurt your feelings, and I thought you will eventually figure it out yourself."

I guess I shall stop here for now.

[eunice]

I'm pretty sure that she values > . However, if she is *really* an ESFj, I had better review the typings of my friends in general.

[Logos]

problem?

Yes, problem.

What problem?

The problem that the "friend" had with the test. For an -dominant, you do seem to have a problem with reading in context.

[eunice]

Come to think of it, she's most likely ENFj>ESFj. I realized that she's the umpteenth ENFj I have brought up under the "what's my type?" thread. Aren't Contrary relations supposed to be negative?