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Thread: Quadra Values

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    Default Quadra Values

    Alpha
    Minimization of negative emotions. Positive sensations, comfort. Promising ideas. Global structural logic.

    Beta
    Maximization of positive emotions. Minimization of weakness. Passionate desire to avoid committing errors. Organizational logic.

    Gamma
    Distancing from negative relations. Defense and protection. Gradual advancement into the future. Business logic: risk and enterprise.

    Delta
    Good, warm relations. Minimization of discomfort and negative sensations. Alternatives, unusualness, sensationalness. Economical utilization of resources.

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    Smilingeyes's Avatar
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    No.
    First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.

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    Those are all from Gulenko's "Quadra and Socio-Psychological Features"... I think they'd be better if they were expanded on...

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    No.
    Consider this: you're looking at Delta values and you're thinking "this is not me", and thus you disagree with what Elzo has come up with.

    Well, you could be right; perhaps it is not you. Perhaps you are not an LSE.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    No.
    Consider this: you're looking at Delta values and you're thinking "this is not me", and thus you disagree with what Elzo has come up with.

    Well, you could be right; perhaps it is not you. Perhaps you are not an LSE.
    You are embarrassing yourself, Ezra. You would realize why if you did some more study.

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    No.
    Consider this: you're looking at Delta values and you're thinking "this is not me", and thus you disagree with what Elzo has come up with.

    Well, you could be right; perhaps it is not you. Perhaps you are not an LSE.
    I'm pretty sure that's not the right approach for what you're trying to do.

    He didn't say "no" because he doesn't see himself in the description; he said "no" because he sees all of the descriptions as being wrong, not compared to him necessarily but compared to the model.

    So, nice logic, but it won't take you anywhere - provided I'm reasonably correct in my interpretation.


    (And even if you adjust as I imply, I'm still not sure it will work... but that remains to be seen.)


    EDIT: And I am not agreeing with Phaedrus.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

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    I don't like it because it assumes that some quadras have +Fe and some have -Fe and all that kind of thing.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Default Re: Quadra Values

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    I don't like it because it assumes that some quadras have +Fe and some have -Fe and all that kind of thing.
    Yes.

    Individually:


    Quote Originally Posted by Elzo
    Alpha
    Minimization of negative emotions. Positive sensations, comfort. Promising ideas. Global structural logic.
    It's not too bad, except for the unnecessary and unhelpful distinction between "minimization of negative" and "maximization of positive" emotions. Alpha do both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elzo
    Beta
    Maximization of positive emotions. Minimization of weakness. Passionate desire to avoid danger. Organizational logic.
    The bolded bit is so NOT Beta.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elzo
    Gamma
    Distancing from negative relations. Defense and protection. Gradual advancement into the future. Business logic: risk and enterprise.
    It's not too wrong as far as it goes, but it's the same problem -- Gamma is not just about "distancing from negative relation".

    Quote Originally Posted by Elzo
    Delta
    Good, warm relations. Minimization of discomfort and negative sensations. Alternatives, unusualness, sensationalness. Economical utilization of resources.
    That's not too bad, except, again, for the "minimization" thing.

    If the point is to emphasize where the quadras differ from the others, ok, then the whole makes somewhat more sense. But not the "passionate desire to avoid danger" in Beta. That's rubbish.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    No.
    Consider this: you're looking at Delta values and you're thinking "this is not me", and thus you disagree with what Elzo has come up with.

    Well, you could be right; perhaps it is not you. Perhaps you are not an LSE.
    You are embarrassing yourself, Ezra. You would realize why if you did some more study.
    Study my fist you piece of shit.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    No.
    Consider this: you're looking at Delta values and you're thinking "this is not me", and thus you disagree with what Elzo has come up with.

    Well, you could be right; perhaps it is not you. Perhaps you are not an LSE.
    I'm pretty sure that's not the right approach for what you're trying to do.

    He didn't say "no" because he doesn't see himself in the description; he said "no" because he sees all of the descriptions as being wrong, not compared to him necessarily but compared to the model.

    So, nice logic, but it won't take you anywhere - provided I'm reasonably correct in my interpretation.


    (And even if you adjust as I imply, I'm still not sure it will work... but that remains to be seen.)


    EDIT: And I am not agreeing with Phaedrus.
    Don't worry. I've taken on board what you've said because it's not overlaid with patronising tones.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    I have a question about Betas, and SLEs in particular.

    Are they content with living without conflict, ever?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Beta
    Maximization of positive emotions. Minimization of weakness. Passionate desire to avoid committing errors. Organizational logic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    I don't like it because it assumes that some quadras have +Fe and some have -Fe and all that kind of thing.
    So?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Study my fist you piece of shit.
    That might be an interesting object to study, even though I am not a physiologist. You think highly of your arguing skills, and you take pride in never losing a debate, but you don't show much of that competence in this case, do you?

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Hahahaha. I wanted to see what your reaction would be.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    The Troll Slayer Hitta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quadra Values

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    I don't like it because it assumes that some quadras have +Fe and some have -Fe and all that kind of thing.
    Yes.

    Individually:


    Quote Originally Posted by Elzo
    Alpha
    Minimization of negative emotions. Positive sensations, comfort. Promising ideas. Global structural logic.
    It's not too bad, except for the unnecessary and unhelpful distinction between "minimization of negative" and "maximization of positive" emotions. Alpha do both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elzo
    Beta
    Maximization of positive emotions. Minimization of weakness. Passionate desire to avoid danger. Organizational logic.
    The bolded bit is so NOT Beta.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elzo
    Gamma
    Distancing from negative relations. Defense and protection. Gradual advancement into the future. Business logic: risk and enterprise.
    It's not too wrong as far as it goes, but it's the same problem -- Gamma is not just about "distancing from negative relation".

    Quote Originally Posted by Elzo
    Delta
    Good, warm relations. Minimization of discomfort and negative sensations. Alternatives, unusualness, sensationalness. Economical utilization of resources.
    That's not too bad, except, again, for the "minimization" thing.

    If the point is to emphasize where the quadras differ from the others, ok, then the whole makes somewhat more sense. But not the "passionate desire to avoid danger" in Beta. That's rubbish.
    Avoidance of danger is -Ni. That and +Si/-Se as agenda combine to give a large fear of death. ENTps and INFps tend to be afraid of dying.

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    How is "Minimization of negative emotions" and "Maximization of positive emotions" different from each other? Do they just stay on neutral emotions, with no positive emotions... ever?

    I think these are just literal translations of the - and + functions... pretty pointless.

  19. #19
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    which quadra wants to "maximize negative emotions" and "minimize positive emotions" cause that one sounds like it would be a real party!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birds
    How is "Minimization of negative emotions" and "Maximization of positive emotions" different from each other? Do they just stay on neutral emotions, with no positive emotions... ever?

    I think these are just literal translations of the - and + functions... pretty pointless.
    Just in my opinion Alphas first want to minimize negative emotions and then after negative emotions are minimized maximize positive emotions. "Is everyone doing alright?..... awesome lets have an amazing time." Betas on the other hand in my opinion want to maximize positive emotions as much as possible and then after they are happy take care of minimizing the negative emotions they may have overlooked. Might be more of a Ne/Si vs. Se/Ni thing maybe.

    Negative emotions being sadness, pain, anger. Positive emotions being happiness, joy, love.
    Suomea

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    I think it would be best if these descriptions are to be described as...: "hypthetical things that could happen if you put these 4 types in the same room".

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    Default Re: Quadra Values

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Elzo
    Alpha
    Minimization of negative emotions. Positive sensations, comfort. Promising ideas. Global structural logic.
    It's not too bad, except for the unnecessary and unhelpful distinction between "minimization of negative" and "maximization of positive" emotions. Alpha do both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elzo
    Beta
    Maximization of positive emotions. Minimization of weakness. Passionate desire to avoid danger. Organizational logic.
    The bolded bit is so NOT Beta.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elzo
    Gamma
    Distancing from negative relations. Defense and protection. Gradual advancement into the future. Business logic: risk and enterprise.
    It's not too wrong as far as it goes, but it's the same problem -- Gamma is not just about "distancing from negative relation".

    Quote Originally Posted by Elzo
    Delta
    Good, warm relations. Minimization of discomfort and negative sensations. Alternatives, unusualness, sensationalness. Economical utilization of resources.
    That's not too bad, except, again, for the "minimization" thing.

    If the point is to emphasize where the quadras differ from the others, ok, then the whole makes somewhat more sense. But not the "passionate desire to avoid danger" in Beta. That's rubbish.
    Expat pointed out the worst problems but I feel the need to add a few others.
    1. Generally, the above descriptions are so generic that while they may be particularly descriptive of individual quadra functions or individual quadra types the variation of types within quadra makes these problematic.
    2. Delta is not particularly much "alternatives" and not at all about "sensationalness".
    2. "Good, warm relations" is non-descriptive. There is no quadra that doesn't internally have good, warm relations. And some participants of this quadra are particularly known for the inability to maintain good, warm relations.
    3. Still on delta, ESTjs can't be adequately described with "minimization of discomfort and negative sensations".
    4. On beta. The replacement bit, the one about perfectionism. That's very close to being as bad as the original.
    5. ENFj is not about maximization of positive emotions. INFp and ENFj are not about organizational logic.
    6. Global structural logic doesn't describe the alpha SFs.
    A quadra value description should be something that fits all quadra members.
    First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.

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    I'd like to see Smilingeyes create Quadra Value descriptions.

  24. #24

  25. #25
    Creepy-bg

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    Quote Originally Posted by dee
    Quote Originally Posted by Elzo
    I'd like to see Smilingeyes create Quadra Value descriptions.
    I'd like him to create good and EASILY IDENTIFIABLE WITH:

    Descriptions of Reinin dichotomies
    Descriptios of clubs and
    Descriptions of temperaments
    I like to see him juggle two bowling balls and a mexican baby

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    Quote Originally Posted by dee
    Quote Originally Posted by Elzo
    I'd like to see Smilingeyes create Quadra Value descriptions.
    I'd like him to create good and EASILY IDENTIFIABLE WITH:

    Descriptions of Reinin dichotomies
    Descriptios of clubs and
    Descriptions of temperaments
    I like to see him juggle two bowling balls and a mexican baby
    Me too! Do you have it on video?
    First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.

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    http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9022

    No offense to Smiling Eyes but that link is just too much for me to read that I get put off reading it. I like things short and sweet.

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