ESFps and being manipulative and socially exclusive

[Bardia]

I haven't really been able to find out anything good about ESFps... except that they can be friendly. Maybe I have just had bad experiences but they all just seem overly manipulative and seem to drop you for anyone slightly more interesting.

I have identified 2 or possibly 3 of them and I don't like any of them. There are 2 girls who I know (one is for sure ESFp but I am not as sure that the other is) but they seem to get together only the most fun/exciting/attractive people in a group and actively exclude anyone else who isn't inlcuding myself. It seems like all my friends who get sucked up in thier group get brainwashed and ignore everyone else or maybe just set the 2 girls needs as top priority. The guy ESFp I don't know too well but I have heard he is known to drop his friends wherever he is and go with the nearest girl.

So are all ESFps like this? What are the good traits of them? How do you break an ESFps hold on people?

[Joy]

Probably about 75% of my friends have been ESFps. They kick ass. There are immature and unhealthy people of every type though. If you haven't found any ESFps you like, you're mistyped or they are, and/or you're overlooking the healthy ones. (Those two girls you described don't sound like even unhealthy or immature ESFps though, just from your description.)

[Khamelion]

overly manipulative and seem to drop you for anyone slightly more interesting.

Crap =\

[Jarno]

and seem to drop you for anyone slightly more interesting.

So are all ESFps like this?

yes

[FDG]

Because if you're not friends with an ESFp, you're not a cool-guy, so since you're a cool-guy, you must be friends with one by definition!

[Bardia]

Probably about 75% of my friends have been ESFps. They kick ass. There are immature and unhealthy people of every type though. If you haven't found any ESFps you like, you're mistyped or they are, and/or you're overlooking the healthy ones. (Those two girls you described don't sound like even unhealthy or immature ESFps though, just from your description.)

Any guess on the two girls types? I always seem to really like ESFps at first. Then they seem to dump me to go flirt with someone. Then when they get hurt or tired of that person they come back to me like they never left. I have to much self worth to put up with something like that. I understand them doing that every once in a while but it seems to happen all the time.

Because if you're not friends with an ESFp, you're not a cool-guy, so since you're a cool-guy, you must be friends with one by definition!

While they tend to drop me for someone new all the time it is me that eventually ends the friendship and leave them wondering why. It's like they don't even notice that they do this all the time (they probably don't), but that doesn't mean I have to like the fact that they drop me. It does not feel good to be dropped so it is healthier for me to end the friendship.

[Khamelion]

Probably about 75% of my friends have been ESFps. They kick ass. There are immature and unhealthy people of every type though. If you haven't found any ESFps you like, you're mistyped or they are, and/or you're overlooking the healthy ones. (Those two girls you described don't sound like even unhealthy or immature ESFps though, just from your description.)

Any guess on the two girls types? I always seem to really like ESFps at first. Then they seem to dump me to go flirt with someone. Then when they get hurt or tired of that person they come back to me like they never left. I have to much self worth to put up with something like that. I understand them doing that every once in a while but it seems to happen all the time.

Because if you're not friends with an ESFp, you're not a cool-guy, so since you're a cool-guy, you must be friends with one by definition!

While they tend to drop me for someone new all the time it is me that eventually ends the friendship and leave them wondering why. It's like they don't even notice that they do this all the time (they probably don't), but that doesn't mean I have to like the fact that they drop me. It does not feel good to be dropped so it is healthier for me to end the friendship.

Of course I don't know these people, but maybe it is possible they don't see it as dropping you? Maybe it just feels this way because their attention gets grabbed by something else going but, and they come back to you because they you are their friend? Or is it more like a romantic thing?

[Bardia]

Of course I don't know these people, but maybe it is possible they don't see it as dropping you? Maybe it just feels this way because their attention gets grabbed by something else going but, and they come back to you because they you are their friend? Or is it more like a romantic thing?

It is a friendship thing. I guess that makes sense. I think we are just different in our friendship style. I prefer to hang out with a smaller group of same people while they seem to enjoy a large circle of friends. I guess I just have to actively tell myself they are not abandoning me but are trying to meet new people. It is hard, though, because they always seem to be fine hanging out with both me and my other friends but when they see an attractive person of the opposite sex they immediately hang around them until they tire of that person.

http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...er=asc&start=0

After reading this it seems like they have abandoment issues which might explain why they switch people around as to not get too attached. I guess I just have to change my stlye of friendship with them and not get too attached as well.

[aka-kitsune]

After reading this it seems like they have abandoment issues which might explain why they switch people around as to not get too attached. I guess I just have to change my stlye of friendship with them and not get too attached as well.

Be careful you don't read too deeply into what you might believe are "their issues". I make that mistake a lot with people, simply by nature of relying on in the absence of actual feedback. ESFs seem to have short attention spans (in general). Their response to you may be variable from day-to-day depending on what is preoccupying their mind.

Also related might be their tendency to have activity ideas prefaced by "We should definitely do X..." , but have poor follow-through on said ideas.

[XoX]

I kind of have to work with an ESFp for now and I initially liked him. I still kind of like him especially when we go eat together. Fun to talk with often. I also like it that he can sort of push things forward when others don't. Other than that I'm slowly getting annoyed about him as I'm suspecting that eventually he is not going to do much real work but I have to do much of his concrete work. Also his opinions are rarely of much use to me except he can offer me pointers to resources which are helpful. He has a lot of pointers to information resources but I need to read them myself. His interpretation of their content doesn't seem that useful to me.

Then about the subject. I think they can sometimes be a riot (in a positive sense). Especially the females are quite interesting. But you always have to progress on their terms and yes they can easily dump you and seek someone more interesting if they get bored. Then again eventually they are likely to call you again when they get bored to their other friends. It is kind of chaotic. I guess that after you get to be one of their most precious loved ones they become more loyal.

[liveandletlive]

haha what an interesting discussion! Honestly, we're so we don't even view our relationships as continuous and long-going rather than how we felt then. They probably didn't mean to drop all those bitter poeple out there but probably had problems juggling so many friends. We can be extremely loyal to those that are good to us.

No offense but instead of crying about it, why don't you make yourself more interesting/cool/fun? :wink:

[Khamelion]

No offense but instead of crying about it, why don't you make yourself more interesting/cool/fun? :wink:

He should be the way he is comfortable being, and attract those who are attracted to the sort of person he really is. People value different things in others...I think it's called...ummmmmm...socionics.


ALTHOUGH, he probably CAN make himself more fun. No one can ever stop improving their fun factor. Unless they just plain don't care for fun at all....which sucks.

[Bardia]

I'll try working on my fun factor. In the mean time I think I just need to try not to get too attached to any ESFps. I think they are fun and all but we just operate differently.

[aka-kitsune]

No offense but instead of crying about it, why don't you make yourself more interesting/cool/fun? :wink:

He should be the way he is comfortable being, and attract those who are attracted to the sort of person he really is. People value different things in others...I think it's called...ummmmmm...socionics.

ALTHOUGH, he probably CAN make himself more fun. No one can ever stop improving their fun factor. Unless they just plain don't care for fun at all....which sucks.

In a way, this makes me a bit sad.

I certainly feel I could benefit from having the positive energy of an ESF-, but I also know I just can't be interesting/cool/fun ALL the time. So much pressure to avoid feeling anything less than upbeat or lose their interest. I don't think it's realistic to expect people to be positive and happy all the time. How significant can your relationships be if you always avoid friends when they're feeling down, or discouraged?

This leads me to the conclusion that I really can't ever look forward to being truly close with ESFs.

[Bardia]

No offense but instead of crying about it, why don't you make yourself more interesting/cool/fun? :wink:

He should be the way he is comfortable being, and attract those who are attracted to the sort of person he really is. People value different things in others...I think it's called...ummmmmm...socionics.

ALTHOUGH, he probably CAN make himself more fun. No one can ever stop improving their fun factor. Unless they just plain don't care for fun at all....which sucks.

In a way, this makes me a bit sad.

I certainly feel I could benefit from having the positive energy of an ESF-, but I also know I just can't be interesting/cool/fun ALL the time. So much pressure to avoid feeling anything less than upbeat or lose their interest. I don't think it's realistic to expect people to be positive and happy all the time. How significant can your relationships be if you always avoid friends when they're feeling down, or discouraged?

This leads me to the conclusion that I really can't ever look forward to being truly close with ESFs.

This pretty much sums up how I feel. Except I haven't really had this problem with ESFjs.

[Blaze]

i like hanging out with esfp's esp in a group situation. thing is they're kinda unreliable and flighty or something. hard to pin down. it could be because like somebody said they have so many friends and are so extremely social that they kinda forget about ya or something. so i just kinda leave it at a more fun and superficial level with them.

[liveandletlive]

No offense but instead of crying about it, why don't you make yourself more interesting/cool/fun? :wink:

He should be the way he is comfortable being, and attract those who are attracted to the sort of person he really is. People value different things in others...I think it's called...ummmmmm...socionics.

ALTHOUGH, he probably CAN make himself more fun. No one can ever stop improving their fun factor. Unless they just plain don't care for fun at all....which sucks.

In a way, this makes me a bit sad.

I certainly feel I could benefit from having the positive energy of an ESF-, but I also know I just can't be interesting/cool/fun ALL the time. So much pressure to avoid feeling anything less than upbeat or lose their interest. I don't think it's realistic to expect people to be positive and happy all the time. How significant can your relationships be if you always avoid friends when they're feeling down, or discouraged?

This leads me to the conclusion that I really can't ever look forward to being truly close with ESFs.

This pretty much sums up how I feel. Except I haven't really had this problem with ESFjs.

have any of you ever met an INTp? My dual is usually depressed as all hell and I close to have to INJECT fun into him for him to grin slightly (but then again that may be because there was schmootz on his lip haha) seriously- just be yourselves. we love everybody... now if only everybody (or somebody) would love us as much as we love them

[Khamelion]

No offense but instead of crying about it, why don't you make yourself more interesting/cool/fun? :wink:

He should be the way he is comfortable being, and attract those who are attracted to the sort of person he really is. People value different things in others...I think it's called...ummmmmm...socionics.

ALTHOUGH, he probably CAN make himself more fun. No one can ever stop improving their fun factor. Unless they just plain don't care for fun at all....which sucks.

In a way, this makes me a bit sad.

I certainly feel I could benefit from having the positive energy of an ESF-, but I also know I just can't be interesting/cool/fun ALL the time. So much pressure to avoid feeling anything less than upbeat or lose their interest. I don't think it's realistic to expect people to be positive and happy all the time. How significant can your relationships be if you always avoid friends when they're feeling down, or discouraged?

This leads me to the conclusion that I really can't ever look forward to being truly close with ESFs.

This pretty much sums up how I feel. Except I haven't really had this problem with ESFjs.

have any of you ever met an INTp? My dual is usually depressed as all hell and I close to have to INJECT fun into him for him to grin slightly (but then again that may be because there was schmootz on his lip haha) seriously- just be yourselves. we love everybody... now if only everybody (or somebody) would love us as much as we love them

Man, didn't mean to imply that you should be forcing anything out of yourself. Fun comes out in many different ways. Anytime you are enjoying doing anything, that is fun. You don't need to cater to others ideas of fun unless you think that idea seems fun and you want to try it.

So much pressure to avoid feeling anything less than upbeat or lose their interest. I don't think it's realistic to expect people to be positive and happy all the time. How significant can your relationships be if you always avoid friends when they're feeling down, or discouraged?

Just means you have find the right median. Find those people who LIKE that you take breaks from excessive "fun times", as general as that statement is....if someone has lost interest it MIGHT be your fault, but it probably isn't. It's probably their short attention span. And regarding dual-seeking, usually the Extroverted partner has a hard time recognizing his Introverted dual because they seem boring at first, for obvious reasons. (I've never related much with this for I seem to always go after dem quiet ones who arn't suspecting my approach bwhaha)

just be yourselves. we love everybody... now if only everybody (or somebody) would love us as much as we love them

forreal man, x10

[BLauritson]

have any of you ever met an INTp? My dual is usually depressed as all hell and I close to have to INJECT fun into him for him to grin slightly

I can't remember where I read this, I know it was some post on this board some time ago, but it was implied that INTps generally suffer with depression in the absence of their dual. I don't think that's *strictly* true, but I think ESFps do generally have the ability to help liven up INTps, providing they're willing. I dunno, I'm not really adding much here.. bah fuck it I'll post it anyway and see if it inspires some more informative replies.

[Jarno]

have any of you ever met an INTp? My dual is usually depressed as all hell and I close to have to INJECT fun into him for him to grin slightly

I can't remember where I read this, I know it was some post on this board some time ago, but it was implied that INTps generally suffer with depression in the absence of their dual. I don't think that's *strictly* true, but I think ESFps do generally have the ability to help liven up INTps, providing they're willing. I dunno, I'm not really adding much here.. bah fuck it I'll post it anyway and see if it inspires some more informative replies.

Yeah I read it somewhere too, in a dual description or something.

INTP's need to be cheered up that's probably true. But they aren't always depressed.

[implied]

My best friends have usually always been ESFp's. They always seem to find me somehow, and will always include me or invite me to things, and if I feel sketchy or antisocial about it they will find a way to give me an extra push... it doesn't really matter if I like it or not.

They have a loving nature, and are usually genuinely good people who have a brilliant energy about them. They light up rooms, and always seem to find a way to make me feel better on bad days. It's really hard for me to see how anybody could not like ESFp's.

this sounds like someone i'd actually like to be around.

[liveandletlive]

<3

[aka-kitsune]

have any of you ever met an INTp? My dual is usually depressed as all hell and I close to have to INJECT fun into him for him to grin slightly (but then again that may be because there was schmootz on his lip haha) seriously- just be yourselves. we love everybody... now if only everybody (or somebody) would love us as much as we love them

I could love an SEE... if only he'd notice me!

[liveandletlive]

have any of you ever met an INTp? My dual is usually depressed as all hell and I close to have to INJECT fun into him for him to grin slightly (but then again that may be because there was schmootz on his lip haha) seriously- just be yourselves. we love everybody... now if only everybody (or somebody) would love us as much as we love them

I could love an SEE... if only he'd notice me!

we notice everyone! the intp is usually that crazy quiet kid that no one can understand but us and vice-versa. if we can notice an ILI we would most definitely notice an IEI- remember we're we notice everything and everyone

[Jarno]

Yes is seeing everything.

They look around constantly.

I remember once, having an SEE in our group. We were in a bar and everytime I looked at her, didn't matter how far away, she had already noticed it and was looking back at me. Scary...

[liveandletlive]

Yes is seeing everything.

They look around constantly.

I remember once, having an SEE in our group. We were in a bar and everytime I looked at her, didn't matter how far away, she had already noticed it and was looking back at me. Scary...

haha thats the best- especially when i wear sunglasses on.... wow that kinda sounds sketchy lol

[aka-kitsune]

have any of you ever met an INTp? My dual is usually depressed as all hell and I close to have to INJECT fun into him for him to grin slightly (but then again that may be because there was schmootz on his lip haha) seriously- just be yourselves. we love everybody... now if only everybody (or somebody) would love us as much as we love them

I could love an SEE... if only he'd notice me!

we notice everyone! the intp is usually that crazy quiet kid that no one can understand but us and vice-versa. if we can notice an ILI we would most definitely notice an IEI- remember we're we notice everything and everyone

Perhaps then the problem is more one of keeping attention? SEEs are often distracted easily, yes? Short attention-spans? IEIs want to somehow stand apart from the crowd of admirers (we're discouraged by too much competition). We want to be distinctive and make a lasting impression.

[liveandletlive]

have any of you ever met an INTp? My dual is usually depressed as all hell and I close to have to INJECT fun into him for him to grin slightly (but then again that may be because there was schmootz on his lip haha) seriously- just be yourselves. we love everybody... now if only everybody (or somebody) would love us as much as we love them

I could love an SEE... if only he'd notice me!

we notice everyone! the intp is usually that crazy quiet kid that no one can understand but us and vice-versa. if we can notice an ILI we would most definitely notice an IEI- remember we're we notice everything and everyone

Perhaps then the problem is more one of keeping attention? SEEs are often distracted easily, yes? Short attention-spans? IEIs want to somehow stand apart from the crowd of admirers (we're discouraged by too much competition). We want to be distinctive and make a lasting impression.

Yeah we often do get dis- whoa squirrel!!!- anyway, what was i saying? yeah we need constant interaction with the world around us. u do that naturally... just be yourself- you're our semi- after all

[Ms. Kensington]

yeah my sister (ESFp) was dating an INFp for a bit but she got frustrated with his communication style. (i think he was an INFp.. but if not he was some Ni type. They stopped talking for a bit but as soon as he sent some nice texts they started talking again, as friends. I think that ESFps can really live by the rule that if someone is nice to them then they will be nice back. But, it might be hard for a J type to understand that being nice once doesn't guarantee loyalty.

[crazedrat]

I haven't really been able to find out anything good about ESFps... except that they can be friendly. Maybe I have just had bad experiences but they all just seem overly manipulative and seem to drop you for anyone slightly more interesting.

I have identified 2 or possibly 3 of them and I don't like any of them. There are 2 girls who I know (one is for sure ESFp but I am not as sure that the other is) but they seem to get together only the most fun/exciting/attractive people in a group and actively exclude anyone else who isn't inlcuding myself. It seems like all my friends who get sucked up in thier group get brainwashed and ignore everyone else or maybe just set the 2 girls needs as top priority. The guy ESFp I don't know too well but I have heard he is known to drop his friends wherever he is and go with the nearest girl.

So are all ESFps like this? What are the good traits of them? How do you break an ESFps hold on people?

Yes... I have the same beef with them. Basically, they are far too invested in the superficial.
But, that is most characteristic of the ESFp who has a universalizing Se function and strong justifying Te function. basically.. the underdeveloped ESFp

[Blaze]

I think that ESFps can really live by the rule that if someone is nice to them then they will be nice back. But, it might be hard for a J type to understand that being nice once doesn't guarantee loyalty.

i agree with this.

[Creepy-bg]

I think that ESFps can really live by the rule that if someone is nice to them then they will be nice back. But, it might be hard for a J type to understand that being nice once doesn't guarantee loyalty.

i agree with this.

you mean there's people who don't live by that rule? obvious answer... but sheesh... I've always been like that, it's just baffling that others wouldn't too.

[implied]

I think that ESFps can really live by the rule that if someone is nice to them then they will be nice back. But, it might be hard for a J type to understand that being nice once doesn't guarantee loyalty.

i agree with this.

you mean there's people who don't live by that rule? obvious answer... but sheesh... I've always been like that, it's just baffling that others wouldn't too.

yeah i honestly admit i thought this was pretty much common sense.

"love those who love you," "do unto others..." etc.