Differences between ILE-ENTp and ILI-INTp

[Iconoclast IX]

Hello. This is my first post, as you may easily deduce. Anyways, recently I have been getting quite interested in Socionics. I have read quite a bit of Socionics material now. However, I have still been unable to decide whether I am an ENTp (ILE) or INTp (ILI). What is suggested to be the best way to figure out which type I really am? Also, what are the most notable differences between ENTps and INTps, both observable and not? Also, just for the record, I am an MBTI INTP, Enneagram 5w4, and probably and Oldham Idiosyncratic.

[Hugo]

oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=14429

ENTp
Seek a romantic relationship in which one partner provides physical comfort, material needs and daily practical help to the other partner. Rapid changes in mood, but generally relaxed mood. Can't tolerate routine and predictability. Their emotions depend on external changes, not on the inner psychological reasons. They try to get everything done at the same time. Keep switching between various activities.

INTp
Seek a romantic relationship containing an element of competition in which one partner feels a sense of awe for the other ("tougher") partner. Adapt to situations rather than change them. Highly sensitive to other people's emotions. Comes out of their shell and becomes sociable in relaxing situations. Emotionally fragile.

[aestrivex]

INTp
Highly sensitive to other people's emotions. Comes out of their shell and becomes sociable in relaxing situations. Emotionally fragile.

?????????????

[Jarno]

Also, just for the record, I am an MBTI INTP, Enneagram 5w4, and probably and Oldham Idiosyncratic.

If you are pretty sure of this, then you're probably an ILI

confirmation of your own type works best when comparing the relationships which you have with other people. Of course you need to know their type too, that's the downside...

[Hitta]

Also, just for the record, I am an MBTI INTP, Enneagram 5w4, and probably and Oldham Idiosyncratic.

If you are pretty sure of this, then you're probably an ILI

confirmation of your own type works best when comparing the relationships which you have with other people. Of course you need to know their type too, that's the downside...

If you think that those are attributes of INTps, you have no idea what an INTp is.

[astralsilky]

INTp
Highly sensitive to other people's emotions. Comes out of their shell and becomes sociable in relaxing situations. Emotionally fragile.

?????????????

Instead, how about emotionally vulnerable, meaning: uncomfortable facing the emotions of others or acknowledging any emotional aspects of a given situation, preferring to ignore them in favor of systemic logic?

That could fit all T's maybe, to some extent or another ... yet I've known some Alpha NTs who fare better in this domain than gamma NTs. (Echoing Fe > Fi)

[aestrivex]

INTp
Highly sensitive to other people's emotions. Comes out of their shell and becomes sociable in relaxing situations. Emotionally fragile.

?????????????

Instead, how about emotionally vulnerable, meaning: uncomfortable facing the emotions of others or acknowledging any emotional aspects of a given situation, preferring to ignore them in favor of systemic logic?

That could fit all T's maybe, to some extent or another ... yet I've known some Alpha NTs who fare better in this domain than gamma NTs. (Echoing Fe > Fi)

systemic logic? although i recognize there is definitely a discrepancy in semantics here, you can't possibly suggest that ILIs favor systemic logic.

you have repeatedly proven that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[discojoe]

INTp
Highly sensitive to other people's emotions. Comes out of their shell and becomes sociable in relaxing situations. Emotionally fragile.

?????????????

lol

[Kristiina]

INTp
Highly sensitive to other people's emotions. Comes out of their shell and becomes sociable in relaxing situations. Emotionally fragile.

?????????????

lol hahahaaa... Justified comment by niffweed.

[Orest Reinn]

Hello. This is my first post, as you may easily deduce. Anyways, recently I have been getting quite interested in Socionics. I have read quite a bit of Socionics material now. However, I have still been unable to decide whether I am an ENTp (ILE) or INTp (ILI). What is suggested to be the best way to figure out which type I really am? Also, what are the most notable differences between ENTps and INTps, both observable and not? Also, just for the record, I am an MBTI INTP, Enneagram 5w4, and probably and Oldham Idiosyncratic.

What? I have a clone! I have exactly the same problem as you

If you are pretty sure of this, then you're probably an ILI

Socionics and Enneagram work in very different ways...

[Blaze]

Hello. This is my first post, as you may easily deduce. Anyways, recently I have been getting quite interested in Socionics. I have read quite a bit of Socionics material now. However, I have still been unable to decide whether I am an ENTp (ILE) or INTp (ILI). What is suggested to be the best way to figure out which type I really am? Also, what are the most notable differences between ENTps and INTps, both observable and not? Also, just for the record, I am an MBTI INTP, Enneagram 5w4, and probably and Oldham Idiosyncratic.

look at the stuff on temperaments. if you're struggling between intp and entp then try to figure out if your are more EP or IP. it's kind of easy to tell the difference.

the other thing no one is mentioning and you're not either is intj.

[Orest Reinn]

it's kind of easy to tell the difference.

Only if your temperament is clear, while we both are sth between IP and EP.

[krieger]

What was the reason for scratching INTj off your list, exactly?

INTj's can test as myers-briggs perceivers. I test as a myers-briggs perceiver.

[tcaudilllg]

My initial impression is ENTp....

Easy way to test this: do you often imagine what conclusions people might draw in a hypothetical situation?

[krieger]

There are a LOT of differences between ENTp's and INTp's, so if you're either of those types, you should be able to tell which one it is without any trouble.

ENTp's are members of the alpha quadra. They have intensely personal worldviews and can basically accept any kind of idea and begin believing in it religiously. They look at society from a disconnected perspective; they're concerned with their own well-being and that of a very close group of associates.

INTp's are members of the gamma quadra. They have a realistic world-view that is tempered by that of the generally accepted views of society. They are known for their excessive scepticism and for being negatively critical even when this makes them impopular. They are responsible people that don't give in to illusions, but they can be difficult to motivate.

An ENTp might read a newspaper or watch the news only for fun or to talk about the spectacular bits with friends in an informal way. The INTp would be more likely to take a very serious interest in the news and to read every letter of a newspaper, possibly more than once.

INTp's have "fun" by criticizing things. ENTp's have fun by putting stange twists into situations, suggesting that something else is going on than what's immediately evident. (INTj's have fun by vocallizing their socially unacceptable oppinions, at least I and several of my friends do)

In general ENTp's are stereotypically light-hearted, wacky, and a little bit unaware of how their "fun" seeking behavior might be abrasive to others... INTp's are stereotypically serious, sluggish. The stereotype of a "nerd" is INTp.

ENTp's are extroverts... this hardly needs clarification. They're not withdrawn people and they don't have trouble connecting with others. INTp's might have some difficulties in this area.

If you identify with the alpha parts but not with the extroversion, I would not be quick to discount the INTj possibility.

[Iconoclast IX]

There are a LOT of differences between ENTp's and INTp's, so if you're either of those types, you should be able to tell which one it is without any trouble.

ENTp's are members of the alpha quadra. They have intensely personal worldviews and can basically accept any kind of idea and begin believing in it religiously. They look at society from a disconnected perspective; they're concerned with their own well-being and that of a very close group of associates.

INTp's are members of the gamma quadra. They have a realistic world-view that is tempered by that of the generally accepted views of society. They are known for their excessive scepticism and for being negatively critical even when this makes them impopular. They are responsible people that don't give in to illusions, but they can be difficult to motivate.

An ENTp might read a newspaper or watch the news only for fun or to talk about the spectacular bits with friends in an informal way. The INTp would be more likely to take a very serious interest in the news and to read every letter of a newspaper, possibly more than once.

INTp's have "fun" by criticizing things. ENTp's have fun by putting stange twists into situations, suggesting that something else is going on than what's immediately evident. (INTj's have fun by vocallizing their socially unacceptable oppinions, at least I and several of my friends do)

In general ENTp's are stereotypically light-hearted, wacky, and a little bit unaware of how their "fun" seeking behavior might be abrasive to others... INTp's are stereotypically serious, sluggish. The stereotype of a "nerd" is INTp.

ENTp's are extroverts... this hardly needs clarification. They're not withdrawn people and they don't have trouble connecting with others. INTp's might have some difficulties in this area.

If you identify with the alpha parts but not with the extroversion, I would not be quick to discount the INTj possibility.

See, it's quite a toss-up. I have a rather bizarre, disconnected view on society in general. I can often be rather attached to my own insane ideas, yet I would not accept some other guy's insane idea and follow it religiously. In other words, if it is my insane idea, I will believe very strongly in it, regardless of how insane it is. But if it is an insane idea of some other person, I will probably look at it with skepticism, unless this idea of his is backed up with data and logic. I might love this person's idea because of its unusual and original nature, yet I would not accept it as true, regardless of how much I really love it.

Your example of an ENTp reading a newspaper is quite accurate in describing how I read a newspaper, yet this seems to be an over-generalization, if you ask for my opinion.

I have fun doing all those things which you listed (suggesting things other than the immediately evident, vocalizing socially unacceptable viewpoints, and criticizing). Technically speaking though, I don't really have "fun" when criticizing something, yet I still often like doing it.

In general, your ENTp description sounds slightly more accurate than the INTp. But...there is one problem. Contrary to the ENTp description, I am socially withdrawn, and I often do not connect well with people. With close friends, I appear quite light-hearted and wacky, yet to most other people, I come across as more serious and aloof.

EDIT: I recently read something about people of the Gamma quadra wanting to be normal and accepted by society. Is this true? If so then I am definitely not an INTp.

[Iconoclast IX]

What was the reason for scratching INTj off your list, exactly?

INTj's can test as myers-briggs perceivers. I test as a myers-briggs perceiver.

INTj is # 3 on my list. Based off the descriptions, INTjs seem to organized, rigid, and linear to fit me. I am very messy and holistic. I thrive off chaos.

[krieger]

INTj is # 3 on my list. Based off the descriptions, INTjs seem to organized, rigid, and linear to fit me.

Hmm... that is one of the stereotypes of INTj-ness doing the rounds... a false one if you ask me, altough there are people that attach significance to it...

IMO, being messy is not incompatible with being an INTj, even if it is not ordinarily considered a telling sign. Keep in mind INTj's are intuitives, alphas, reasonables (= naturally relaxed), result types (= prefer not to focus on one activity for long), among other things that increase their messiness-rating. The Judging trait counteracts all of those slightly, but there is undoubtedly some unorganizedness left to be found in any INTj's behavior.

In general, your ENTp description sounds slightly more accurate than the INTp. But...there is one problem. Contrary to the ENTp description, I am socially withdrawn, and I often do not connect well with people. With close friends, I appear quite light-hearted and wacky, yet to most other people, I come across as more serious and aloof.

This would be a slight problem with the ENTp possibility. ENTp's are positivist extroverts, meaning they feel energized when they can do origninal things that other people notice. They can be socially awkward, but aren't generally quiet people at all.

EDIT: I recently read something about people of the Gamma quadra wanting to be normal and accepted by society. Is this true? If so then I am definitely not an INTp.

More or less true... They value concrete, demonstrable results. I have found these descriptions of the quadras to be a good reflection of how they appear in the real world:

Quadra: Alpha
Makes its own morals as it wills. Does what is possible, needed and allowed in its personal life and is not always happy to change its habits for the public, though is quite capable to do so. Great capability of adaptation. Possesses only very personal needs and thus has resources to spend. 'Hippie or Nobility ethics.' Unexpected and original talents and skills. Succeeding in 'impossible' things. Distorted sense of normality. Alternate point of view. Carnivale.

Quadra: Gamma
States aloud morals as they see them in the envirionment. Does what seems appropriate, normal and promising. Alert and responsive. 'Officer or merchant ethics'. Capably uses the opportunities that appear in the environment. The natural way of doing things. Scavengers. Repairing what is broken. Making do. Accepting the inevitable. Concentrating on the public instead of the personal.

[astralsilky]

INTp
Highly sensitive to other people's emotions. Comes out of their shell and becomes sociable in relaxing situations. Emotionally fragile.

?????????????

Instead, how about emotionally vulnerable, meaning: uncomfortable facing the emotions of others or acknowledging any emotional aspects of a given situation, preferring to ignore them in favor of systemic logic?

That could fit all T's maybe, to some extent or another ... yet I've known some Alpha NTs who fare better in this domain than gamma NTs. (Echoing Fe > Fi)

systemic logic? although i recognize there is definitely a discrepancy in semantics here, you can't possibly suggest that ILIs favor systemic logic.

you have repeatedly proven that you have no idea what you are talking about.

You mean over Te? I didn't even mention Te.

You repeatedly misunderstand me; has nothing to do with what I know or don't know.

There's no point in me even talking to you.