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Thread: How do you get an ENTj to like you?

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    Default How do you get an ENTj to like you?

    I'm an ISTj and really like an ENTj. Now normally I'd charm her but I can't do that with ENTjs it scares them off. How can I get a female ENTj to like me?
    ISTj.

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    Default Re: How do you get an ENTj to like you?

    Quote Originally Posted by mr_maguoo
    I'm an ISTj and really like an ENTj. Now normally I'd charm her but I can't do that with ENTjs it scares them off. How can I get a female ENTj to like me?
    Don't do anything that looks like you're trying to indirectly impress her (like bragging to your friends about something you own/did). If you talk to her, make the topic about her, and give thoughtful answers that show that you're interested and enjoy talking to her.

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    !!! That must be why my one ENTj friend likes me so much. Good call about that indirect impression bit.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Default Re: How do you get an ENTj to like you?

    Quote Originally Posted by mr_maguoo
    I'm an ISTj and really like an ENTj. Now normally I'd charm her but I can't do that with ENTjs it scares them off. How can I get a female ENTj to like me?
    Get her to talk about her plans for the distant future, and listen with interest.

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    Default Re: How do you get an ENTj to like you?

    Quote Originally Posted by mr_maguoo
    I'm an ISTj and really like an ENTj. Now normally I'd charm her but I can't do that with ENTjs it scares them off. How can I get a female ENTj to like me?
    Not to discourage you, but you can't. That's the "problem" with Fi quadra types -- they have their own "arbitrary" reasons to like or dislike people. Either you fit her "I like him" criteria or you don't, and in the latter case attempts to try to "get her to like you" will just annoy her. The best thing to do is be yourself around her, show you're interested, and see if she starts to get talkative and friendly around you. If that doesn't happen, forget it.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    definitely
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    And again, get her to talk about things she's interested in. Keep the conversation focused on her at first. LIE's (and perhaps to some extent most extroverts?) find it intoxicating to converse with someone who listens intently and seems to enjoy hearing them talk about things they're interested in.
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    That's a topic for a deeper discussion, but I think that a fair Fe "critique" of Fi is precisely this: Fi "arbitrarily" makes you like or dislike others, according to its own criteria as to whom to like or dislike. Fe is "readier to give others a chance", so to speak.
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95
    can you give a few brief examples of this criteria? (or should i wait until you're up to making a new thread or something? nothing i need to know urgently.)
    It's difficult. It can be just the "right" amount of assertiveness stopping short of aggressiveness, or of modesty stopping short of self-abasement; the "right" ethical values and morals; the "right" amount of interest in many things before getting "too" scattered; the "right" amount of ambition stopping short of greed; the "right" amount of social skills stopping short of being slick. Etc etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    That's a topic for a deeper discussion, but I think that a fair Fe "critique" of Fi is precisely this: Fi "arbitrarily" makes you like or dislike others, according to its own criteria as to whom to like or dislike. Fe is "readier to give others a chance", so to speak.
    yes, i would like you to explain why the word arbitrary is in quotes. I am not protesting it but am asking you to describe the other side of viewing it. Do you mean there are reasons that are particular to the person?

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    Yeah, there are reasons, but they're individual preferences.

    Fi: internal statics of fields
    Ti: external statics of fields

    When comparing the two, the difference is internal vs. external. External properties are things that can be observed or measured. Internal properties cannot be readily observed or measured. When comparing Ti and Fi, the reason they can't be readily observed or measured is because they're unique to a particular individual.

    Comparing similarities between Fe and Fi is more difficult because the only thing that's the same is that they're both internal. (I think a lot of what people attribute to "Fe values" is actually Ti values.) This is why it's easier to compare the differences between Fe and Fi than the similarities.

    Fe: dynamics of objects (internal)
    Fi: statics of fields (internal)

    "Statics of fields" can be read "states of relationships" or "stationary connections".
    "Dynamics of objects" can be read "activity of people/things" or "actions of people/things".

    Does contrasting these things help to show how Fi values are indeed fixed systems and not at all arbitrary? And why they can look arbitrary to someone who values fixed systems that are observable or measurable?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    That's a topic for a deeper discussion, but I think that a fair Fe "critique" of Fi is precisely this: Fi "arbitrarily" makes you like or dislike others, according to its own criteria as to whom to like or dislike. Fe is "readier to give others a chance", so to speak.
    Wow. Very, very interesting. Would love for you to elaborate upon this because you have put into words what I have seen/experienced IRL with valuing types. It really grates on my nerves, to be honest, but I am trying to understand why they do this? If you recognize that you are "arbitrarily" doing this, .. as I see it, judging others before getting to really know them, then why continue? Why not become more open-minded? Is it something you can control?


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    I am incredibly open-minded...AND I'm incredibly aware of who I like and don't like.

    If I happen to not like someone however, this does not have to mean that I won't be friends with them to some extent. You can learn and get something out of any relationship, even conflicting ones :wink:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Does contrasting these things help to show how Fi values are indeed fixed systems and not at all arbitrary? And why they can look arbitrary to someone who values fixed systems that are observable or measurable?
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    I'm sorry Joy, I have never, ever understood anything in terms of descriptions that utilize the words "internal", "external", "dynamic", or "static".

    It sounds like jargon to me...


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    Lately I've also been seeing irrational information elements as being for observation and rational information elements as being for decision making (and keep in mind that we all do both).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Lately I've also been seeing irrational information elements as being for observation and rational information elements as being for decision making (and keep in mind that we all do both).
    hm yeah i wanted to tell you, that i think smilex has discussed this before too on the forum. You had a thread earlier on where else it's written that the j functions are for decision making, and i went blank at the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Fe: dynamics of objects (internal)
    Fi: statics of fields (internal)

    "Statics of fields" can be read "states of relationships" or "stationary connections".
    "Dynamics of objects" can be read "activity of people/things" or "actions of people/things".
    This is good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    I think a lot of what people attribute to "Fe values" is actually Ti values
    Yes, this is something to discuss further.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    yes, i would like you to explain why the word arbitrary is in quotes. I am not protesting it but am asking you to describe the other side of viewing it. Do you mean there are reasons that are particular to the person?
    Yes, that's what I mean. They will look arbitrary to outside observers, but for the Fi persons themselves they are reasons, albeit personal ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    Wow. Very, very interesting. Would love for you to elaborate upon this because you have put into words what I have seen/experienced IRL with valuing types. It really grates on my nerves, to be honest, but I am trying to understand why they do this? If you recognize that you are "arbitrarily" doing this, .. as I see it, judging others before getting to really know them, then why continue? Why not become more open-minded? Is it something you can control?
    First, is always going to appear "close-minded" to , just like appears close-minded to .

    Second, it's not at all about "judging others before getting to really know them"; it's about "making a 'final' judgement once you think you have gotten to really know them". I say "final" because it can and does change, but it's difficult once it's been made.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    First, is always going to appear "close-minded" to , just like appears close-minded to .
    Excellent point.
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