Intellectual Fi types

[krieger]

Here's something that I've been wondering about: when an ego block Fi type, wether they are ExFp or IXFj, fulfills the role of an intellectual, scientist or politician, how do they behave...?

[snegledmaca]

You know I've been interested in that as well. From my experience, with my IEE best friend, he takes a role of rebellion leader inciting people into action to bring down the establishment. Initially. Ideally. That's at least how he's tries to carry himself. His Ti PoLR soon gets in the way and he is forced to stop and do Te things like actually build more systems to try to somehow combat the Ti establishment. So in a sense he behaves as a system builder. An alternate system builder. And he actively need Te help to build it. And his interests mostly lie in the filed of culture. So he fights there. Well, he doesn't so much fight as build/make alternatives happen.

[Kristiina]

I know an INFj studying biology Masters degree. She is dutiful about school tasks and she does well. I don't think she has a great future vision like I do. She just likes the biology stuff and she chooses the steps which take her closer to being a scientist. She talks good about teachers - "he knows how to explain things". She handles the subjects by teachers by memorizing things. Overall, she's not excessively stressed about school. So sometimes talks about her lab things and talks highly of the people who help her understand the procedures of the lab. She's scared of the lab equipment that she hasn't been taught to use - there is always the fear that she could break something or make something blow up. I have to admit, lab equipment is very scary when you think about what could happen if you misuse it in any way. There is also another INFj, but she is very shy and friendly, but not talkative at all. She studies well and often spends time going over her notes. She seems very responsible. She's doing fine.

I know one ENFp studying Biology Masters- she's extremely unsure of her knowledge. Very fidgety.

I know one ISFj, also in Biology Masters. She is quite unsure about her skills. She's always stressed about tasks. Very negative, putting herself down. She always thinks she's gonna fail, even if she does well.

[Kim]

Here's something that I've been wondering about: when an ego block Fi type, wether they are ExFp or IXFj, fulfills the role of an intellectual, scientist or politician, how do they behave...?

What do you mean?

[UDP]

Here's something that I've been wondering about: when an ego block Fi type, wether they are ExFp or IXFj, fulfills the role of an intellectual, scientist or politician, how do they behave...?

what do you think

[UDP]

What do you mean?

[UDP]

Here's something that I've been wondering about: when an ego block Fi type, wether they are ExFp or IXFj, fulfills the role of an intellectual, scientist or politician, how do they behave...?

what do you think

he has a reason for asking, do you think he is dumb? man, you are of much oppinion about yourself.

I have a reason for asking too.


Sometimes it is easier (ala Socrates) to ask someone what they think about a matter, and then branch off with your own ideas if you have any. It seems (for me) to go better if people actually state their thoughts about a matter first, if they have any, and then we go from there, so that way we can try to align our meanings. I have spent a lot of time pseudo disagreeing with people because we were not connected on our meanings, when in reality, we were agreeing with each other but starting at different parts of the situation.


PS: I do have an opinion about myself, yes. (I try to balance out being honest about my flaws with the "holier than thou" bit, but I'm still struggling somewhat). I don't value Fe too much- unlike you, Dee, which seems to be somewhat concerned with it, so that may trigger things.

[Mea]

I have an IEE friend who majors in IT. He's really good at programming, and manipulating the code, and making use of it.
He's basically a unix person. And got promoted twice in the past 6 months. Which IMO, is really fast, and is earning a LOT now.

He mentioned to be he would much prefer to be doing his own thing in the data centre, but is now in a managerial position, where he mostly supervises the work of others. He's very friendly to the people under him and most helpful, to the point where he does a lot of their work for them. He doesn't always have to go back to the office though, and he hates having to be in the office with the ESI boss.

What is good about him is when he finds that he is unable to solve a certain problem a certain way, he is very quick at trying another method. The bosses love him.

[tcaudilllg]

People can work at something without actually apprehending what they are working with, and still be successful.

[tcaudilllg]

People can work at something without actually apprehending what they are working with, and still be successful.

[krieger]

There are many forms of understanding... I tend to associate feeling functions' understanding with an understanding of problems, as opposed to one of solutions.

[marooned]

People can work at something without actually apprehending what they are working with, and still be successful.

And your point is?

[krieger]

Well...

An abstract external function can be read as "understanding a problem"... in the sense that it makes the person try to find out what decisive action should be taken.

But a feeling function rather studies why action should be undertaken in the first place.

[krieger]

what is an abstract external function?

A thinking or sensation function with a - sign.

[Mea]

I have an IEE friend who majors in IT. He's really good at programming, and manipulating the code, and making use of it.
He's basically a unix person. And got promoted twice in the past 6 months. Which IMO, is really fast, and is earning a LOT now.

He mentioned to be he would much prefer to be doing his own thing in the data centre, but is now in a managerial position, where he mostly supervises the work of others. He's very friendly to the people under him and most helpful, to the point where he does a lot of their work for them. He doesn't always have to go back to the office though, and he hates having to be in the office with the ESI boss.

What is good about him is when he finds that he is unable to solve a certain problem a certain way, he is very quick at trying another method. The bosses love him.

You sure he is IEE? And not ILE? If the boss is ESI, then they would be conflictors.

No. He values Fi, not ILE. They don't really conflict. Supervision fits better.

[Kim]

Yeah, I understand the problem, then I run to the big smart INTj to solve it. He pats my dumb little ENFp head and says "hush, run off little girl. Now I will take care of it with my unbeatable logic."

I giggle hysterically during meetings. I don't pay attention because I am concerned with thinking about the many guys I have a crush on. But the ISFj secretary takes notes she lets me borrow. In exchange, I listen to her relationship stories. But I can only point out the problems. When she asks what she should do, I think a little and say: "I dunno." I walk away and forget that she exists. She can watch Dr. Phil, what the hell.

I don't get what I am teaching and do research on, but hey, I can talk people into the ground, can't I? Ha, I sound, like, totally, uhm, like, eloquent or something.
When I present my research at a conference, I smile brightly, charm everyone, and thus I am a huge success. When I am asked about the details of my research, I start wishing my INTj boss were there, but then I turn on my improvisation skills, bullshit a little, and direct the conversation away from the details and towards the starving people of Zimbabwe. Then I gleefully talk about my volunteer work at the orphanage. When he asks again, I give him the number of my INTj boss and fake a horrible migraine attack.

Then I hop home to my ISTp husband and tell him about my day. Oh, it's fun to be an intellectual ENFp!

[marooned]

[marooned]

@ Hkkmr: I think Kim was responding to Tcaudilllg's post. Where Tcaudilllg indicated that sure an IEE can work in IT, but s/he won't actually know what s/he's doing (as a way of explaining away the oh-so-unusual phenomenon of the IEE Mea mentioned in her post).

I'm guessing that Tcaudilllg might feel that in terms of intelligence, NT>ST>NF>SF, or something of the sort. So Kim may have been trying to dispell that sort of thinking.

So whether or not Kim's description matches is then beside the point.

[marooned]

@ Hkkmr: I think Kim was responding to Tcaudilllg's post. Where Tcaudilllg indicated that sure an IEE can work in IT, but s/he won't actually know what s/he's doing (as a way of explaining away the oh-so-unusual phenomenon of the IEE Mea mentioned in her post).

I'm guessing that Tcaudilllg might feel that in terms of intelligence, NT>ST>NF>SF, or something of the sort. So Kim may have been trying to dispell that sort of thinking.

So whether or not Kim's description matches is then beside the point.

I'm not sure what the IEE Mea is refering to does, because IT is a big sector, so he could be IEE but preforming in a role that is suitable to him.

I think intelligence is not a matter of type, how we approach problems is and that is more important in many cases then intelligence.

Okay, so you're saying that approaching problems in certain ways is central to certain professions, so then certain types wouldn't be likely to be in certain professions because they "can't" approach problems in the ways that would be required of them for those professions?

Please tell me you're not saying that.

[marooned]

Okay, so you're saying that approaching problems in certain ways is central to certain professions, so then certain types wouldn't be likely to be in certain professions because they "can't" approach problems in the ways that would be required of them for those professions?

Please tell me you're not saying that.

I provide theory, not conclusions.

OK.

[Kim]

I have an IEE friend who majors in IT. He's really good at programming, and manipulating the code, and making use of it.
He's basically a unix person. And got promoted twice in the past 6 months. Which IMO, is really fast, and is earning a LOT now.

He mentioned to be he would much prefer to be doing his own thing in the data centre, but is now in a managerial position, where he mostly supervises the work of others. He's very friendly to the people under him and most helpful, to the point where he does a lot of their work for them. He doesn't always have to go back to the office though, and he hates having to be in the office with the ESI boss.

What is good about him is when he finds that he is unable to solve a certain problem a certain way, he is very quick at trying another method. The bosses love him.

You sure he is IEE? And not ILE? If the boss is ESI, then they would be conflictors.

No. He values Fi, not ILE. They don't really conflict. Supervision fits better.

Here's the thing,
"he does a lot of their work for them"
"he is unable to solve a certain problem a certain way, he is very quick at trying another method." more "if he is unable to find someone to solve a problem, he is very quick at finding another person."

Doesn't sound IEE to me, he might value but he might be another type.
If you read what Kim wrote about ENFp, it doesn't really match.

My post was purely sarcastic.

The above descriptions apply to me, too. It is a matter of context. I can only speak for myself and the few other ENFps I know real life, but I can snap right into professional mode and I can be very practical and efficient. I am a good problem solver because I can always think of alternative ways of doing it and
when I can't do it, I will ask someone. I am currently working in a team and I have the tendency to take on some of other people's work when I think more stuff gets done that way or when I know they need help. My students would probably type me ENFp, but I doubt my professors would. I am only a ditz in my private life, not when things need to get done.

You honestly thought my post was serious?

[Kim]

@ Hkkmr: I think Kim was responding to Tcaudilllg's post. Where Tcaudilllg indicated that sure an IEE can work in IT, but s/he won't actually know what s/he's doing (as a way of explaining away the oh-so-unusual phenomenon of the IEE Mea mentioned in her post).

I'm guessing that Tcaudilllg might feel that in terms of intelligence, NT>ST>NF>SF, or something of the sort. So Kim may have been trying to dispell that sort of thinking.

So whether or not Kim's description matches is then beside the point.

Exactly right.

[marooned]

Maybe when someone enjoys solving problems effectively on their own you assume they must be T rather than F... where as if someone gives up or asks someone else for help consistently you assume they are F rather than T?

[marooned]

Hmm. In any case... :wink:

[Kim]

For me if there is a particularly difficult problem I will cut myself off from others and focus on a solution, where as the IEE I've seen will find someone else or just quit. .

I daresay ENFp will ask someone else when it saves time and energy that is better spent elsewhere. But I don't just drop something because it is a little difficult. Not at all. Professionality and job performance have nothing to do with type. I have said it a million times: functions are a preference. I am not particularly fond of Ti and prefer approaching thinks through a different filter. I get a little defensive when people critize me on Ti matters. But when I have to Ti my way through a problem, I will. Otherwise I would not be teaching a class on how to come up with a logical argument. I prefer teachng literature, but sometimes I don't have a choice, so I do what I must to do it well.

I will admit that I find it rather shocking that you thought I was serious with my initial post. It makes me think that Socionics is a very bad thing...

[meatburger]

I have an IEE friend who majors in IT. He's really good at programming, and manipulating the code, and making use of it.
He's basically a unix person. And got promoted twice in the past 6 months. Which IMO, is really fast, and is earning a LOT now.

He mentioned to be he would much prefer to be doing his own thing in the data centre, but is now in a managerial position, where he mostly supervises the work of others. He's very friendly to the people under him and most helpful, to the point where he does a lot of their work for them. He doesn't always have to go back to the office though, and he hates having to be in the office with the ESI boss.

What is good about him is when he finds that he is unable to solve a certain problem a certain way, he is very quick at trying another method. The bosses love him.

You sure he is IEE? And not ILE? If the boss is ESI, then they would be conflictors.

No. He values Fi, not ILE. They don't really conflict. Supervision fits better.

Yeah i must admit my first thought was hes probably an ENTp lol. Mea would know the difference between an ENTp and ENFp though. That being said, i have a diploma of networking and i did it quite comfortably. I dont mind programming, i was one of 5 people out of 30 to manage to pass a fairly hard Java test. The way i managed to work it out though was i just remembered the different code variations and kept tweaking them until it finally worked. I had an overall idea of the structure and what the language should look like. I didn't logically work it out like an ENTp would. So i agree that programming is ILE > IEE by far.

The problem solving thing is not really true though. I dont mind problem solving at all and will sometimes go nuts reading to get something to work. At my old job i definitely tended to try very hard to fix the problems myself before i referred them to a higher level.

I learn things very very fast but i never really know them deeply

[Gilly]

You will find that ILE's are not particularly good at logical arguments( > imo). We present what we believe in a "logical" fashion, but it is very intuitive and vague.

Speak for yourself...

[XoX]

Yeah, I understand the problem, then I run to the big smart INTj to solve it. He pats my dumb little ENFp head and says "hush, run off little girl. Now I will take care of it with my unbeatable logic."

I giggle hysterically during meetings. I don't pay attention because I am concerned with thinking about the many guys I have a crush on. But the ISFj secretary takes notes she lets me borrow. In exchange, I listen to her relationship stories. But I can only point out the problems. When she asks what she should do, I think a little and say: "I dunno." I walk away and forget that she exists. She can watch Dr. Phil, what the hell.

I don't get what I am teaching and do research on, but hey, I can talk people into the ground, can't I? Ha, I sound, like, totally, uhm, like, eloquent or something.
When I present my research at a conference, I smile brightly, charm everyone, and thus I am a huge success. When I am asked about the details of my research, I start wishing my INTj boss were there, but then I turn on my improvisation skills, bullshit a little, and direct the conversation away from the details and towards the starving people of Zimbabwe. Then I gleefully talk about my volunteer work at the orphanage. When he asks again, I give him the number of my INTj boss and fake a horrible migraine attack.

Then I hop home to my ISTp husband and tell him about my day. Oh, it's fun to be an intellectual ENFp!

This was rather funny.