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Thread: Possible new dichotomy

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    Default Possible new dichotomy

    I've noticed a possible new dichotomy that applies to each IM Element. I call it playful vs. constructive.

    I wonder if it's related to irrational vs. rational. Perhaps it may also be similar to what some people consider to be - vs. + (?)
    However, I suspect that it may be partially or completely independent from those things. It may also apply more to what people say about the IM elements than what they really are, but I still think it's worth considering.

    Here's how it works:

    I've noticed that some descriptions of Si emphasize the playful, hedonistic quality: doing things for pleasure, liking to eat, eating dessert, relaxing, doing stuff that maybe isn't so good for you like drinking and smoking, etc.

    And then sometimes people describe Si in terms of healthy behaviors: doing what's good for you, taking care of your body, which means not eating too much, not eating dessert, exercising a lot, and not engaging in any bad habits like drinking and smoking.

    So these things are exact the opposite.

    A similar thing can be seen with Ni. Sometimes people talk about Ni in terms of being really great with time, estimating how long things will take, focusing on what's likely to come up, being timely, doing things at the right time.

    And sometimes people talk about Ni in terms of daydreaming, ignoring what's happening, being in one's own world, dwelling in the imagination, being disconnected from worldly schedules.

    ....Again, these things are the complete opposite.

    Actually, it seems that each IM Element (at least as commonly discussed and understood) can be divided into "playful" and "constructive" behaviors which are complete opposites from each other.

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    Smilingeyes's Avatar
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    This sounds interesting. Could be done, I think. But great care would have to be taken not to trod on the existing 'abstract'/'concrete', negative/positive, result/process and 'judicious'/'resolute' dichotomies since each of them has connotations that come close to this definition.

    Good luck with the attempt.
    First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    This sounds interesting. Could be done, I think. But great care would have to be taken not to trod on the existing 'abstract'/'concrete', negative/positive, result/process and 'judicious'/'resolute' dichotomies since each of them has connotations that come close to this definition.

    Good luck with the attempt.
    Thanks for the input. And to clarify, I'm not starting from the assumption that any type is necessarily "fixed" to using its IM elements in a certain way (playful/constructive), or that these are necessarily even stable traits in people. Rather, I just notice that each of the IM Elements tends to get described in two completely opposite ways, which suggests the possibility of some sort of dichotomy....perhaps two separate ways of using each IM Element that, if habitual, might even lead to more type combinations.

    I'd be very interested in thoughts on how these Reinin dichotomies you mention might relate to or have influence over this "dichotomy" I'm thinking about.

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    I don't think there is anything to that idea.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I don't think there is anything to that idea.
    Well that's very helpful.

    As I said, the observation may have more to do with how people describe (or mis-describe) the IM elements. But how can you help from noticing that the various ways people describe Si (as healthy or as hedonistic) are quite opposed....and similarly with the other IM Elements?

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    I'm interested in more along this line of thought. But I'm awful at coming up with examples. Sorry.
    EII
    4w5, sp/sx

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new dichotomy

    This is an interesting theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    I've noticed that some descriptions of Si emphasize the playful, hedonistic quality: doing things for pleasure, liking to eat, eating dessert, relaxing, doing stuff that maybe isn't so good for you like drinking and smoking, etc.
    I find this useful often.

    And then sometimes people describe Si in terms of healthy behaviors: doing what's good for you, taking care of your body, which means not eating too much, not eating dessert, exercising a lot, and not engaging in any bad habits like drinking and smoking.
    This is also very good. A mixture of both is good. I like about 70 - 80% construction, with a 30 - 20% playful attitude so far.

    A similar thing can be seen with Ni. Sometimes people talk about Ni in terms of being really great with time, estimating how long things will take, focusing on what's likely to come up, being timely, doing things at the right time.
    This is very useful. In terms of Ni, I am definitely constructivist.

    And sometimes people talk about Ni in terms of daydreaming, ignoring what's happening, being in one's own world, dwelling in the imagination, being disconnected from worldly schedules.
    I find this entirely useless. I never (would) use Ni in this sense.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95
    "constructivism" is a reinin dichotomy shared on both sides of the +/-Ni divide and you also have to factor in accepting/producing. that's the difficulty of ellaborating on the dichotomies, is there are so many other effects to control and consider. so i'm just taking the opportunity to clarrify, that i don't necessarily support anything said here verbatim yet, just that overall it does ring some bells subjectively IME.
    So what you mean is that if one values Ni, they are both good at timing, calculations etc as well as at daydreaming. They must accept both aspects of Ni, yes?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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