What type am I?

[Celeste]

I've read a little bit about Socionics, but I haven't figured out my type yet. I'll write a description of myself to start with, and I can answer questions, too.

When I was a kid my favorite thing to do was climb trees and just sit up in them and think for a long time. I was shy and quiet around other kids, but overall I've always been really talkative. I was never good at sports, but I played baseball and softball for a couple of seasons and enjoyed it. I liked to ride my bike a lot though, and I did that quite a bit. I also enjoyed cooking as a kid.

As a teenager I was still quiet at school, but around coworkers and friends I'd laugh and play around and talk a lot. For the most part I generally had one good female friend, and I'd hang out with her other friends. I'd also have a few other friends that I'd talk to at school or do stuff with once in a while. Overall though I spent most of my time either at work, in school, or with my boyfriend. I didn't like high school very much because it annoyed me to have to spend so much time there. At the time I thought that working full time would have been preferable to going to school. If I did my homework, it was usually in the last five minutes of the class I had before the class in which assignment was due, or sometimes at the beginning of that class. Homework and studying just seemed so pointless to me.

The subjects I enjoyed most in high school and college were Biology, Algebra, Child Development, Composition, English, Critical Thinking, Psychology, Entrepreneurship, Foods, Economics, Social Studies, Interpersonal Communication, and classes related to my current field. The classes I disliked most were gym class, art, sewing, and classes related to other careers that I didn't end up pursuing. Gym class was my least favorite by far, and I paid other people to do a lot of my art projects.

I can't decide whether I'm introverted or extroverted. When I'm talking to someone, I am usually extroverted, especially if someone gets me going about something I'm interested in, usually related to my philosophies about life, my goals, or a subject related to my field. Sometimes I enjoy going to parties or bars, but not as much as I did when I was younger. Most of the time I prefer to just stay at home with my husband and kids though, and if I go somewhere it's usually family oriented. Going out to parties, bars, and clubs just doesn't sound enjoyable anymore. Most of the socializing I do with adults is with my colleagues. I tend to get involved in big projects at work if it's something that I think needs to be done. I'm also very involved in a couple of trade associations. I end up in leadership roles on occasion. I don't feel like I need to be in charge of others, but if I see something that I think should be done, the easiest way for me to do it is to take on a leadership role and delegate a lot of the responsibilities to people who are willing to do stuff but don't have much initiative.

I think I'm intuitive. I'm not as connected to the physical world as most people seem to be, which sometimes causes trouble for me. Most of the people who get to know me say that I'm unusual or strange or something like that. I usually feel a little flattered when they say that, but I don't try to be weird. I just am what I am. Things that I pride myself in are my knowledge related to my field, my goal orientation, my trustworthiness, my directness, my ability to learn quickly, and my boldness. I'm not proud to admit that I've got a fiery temper, can be impatient and irritated at small things, and procrastinate on things that I don't feel like doing.

I'm not really sure what else to write about that would help in figuring out my type.

[eunice]

Who are you? Why do you know so much about me?

(yeah, I guess I just gave my answer. :wink: )

[UDP]

The classes I disliked most were gym class, art, sewing, and classes related to other careers that I didn't end up pursuing. Gym class was my least favorite by far, and I paid other people to do a lot of my art projects.

Doesn't really sound INFj.




Possibly ENTj?

[eunice]

The classes I disliked most were gym class, art, sewing, and classes related to other careers that I didn't end up pursuing. Gym class was my least favorite by far, and I paid other people to do a lot of my art projects.

Doesn't really sound INFj.

INFj is possible. I know.

I used to seek other people's help in doing my art projects as well. I might even pay them if they had requested for it as long as they get the work done.

On a side note, the classes she had disliked are *exactly* the classes I would have happily chosen to avoid if only they aren't core requirements.

[Khamelion]

i think i'm going to analyise patterns of people's real types and their forum type suggestions. pretty sure there will be intp=infj there.

what? you know all the fourm members real types?

[Mea]

This is tough. Possibly Fi>Fe and Te>Ti, but I'm not sure.
And I'm guessing Gamma>Delta.

[Smilingeyes]

IJ-Ne. I don't care whether you call yourself INTj or INFj. I suggest INFj.

Anyway...

On the right way to correspond things in the text

I've read a little bit about Socionics, but I haven't figured out my type yet. I'll write a description of myself to start with, and I can answer questions, too.

Taciturn-negative-combination. Problems are seen as factual, specific. Therefore a rational type.
The bolded text is in a form which is sort of a catch-phrase for INFjs. Note the helpfulness, yet the inconsequential nature of the help AND the eagerness by which the help is given.

When I was a kid my favorite thing to do was climb trees and just sit up in them and think for a long time. I was shy and quiet around other kids, but overall I've always been really talkative. I was never good at sports, but I played baseball and softball for a couple of seasons and enjoyed it. I liked to ride my bike a lot though, and I did that quite a bit. I also enjoyed cooking as a kid.

I think type changes so I'm not really interested in this. Anyway, I take it that you liked team sports because of the feeling of being able to do something significant for the group.

As a teenager I was still quiet at school, but around coworkers and friends I'd laugh and play around and talk a lot.

Combination of aristocracy-positivism. At this point we already know you're IJ.

For the most part I generally had one good female friend, and I'd hang out with her other friends. I'd also have a few other friends that I'd talk to at school or do stuff with once in a while. Overall though I spent most of my time either at work, in school, or with my boyfriend. I didn't like high school very much because it annoyed me to have to spend so much time there. At the time I thought that working full time would have been preferable to going to school. If I did my homework, it was usually in the last five minutes of the class I had before the class in which assignment was due, or sometimes at the beginning of that class. Homework and studying just seemed so pointless to me.

The bolded part can be understood as creation-creation or as si-ne quadra values. Either way, both work for INFj.

The subjects I enjoyed most in high school and college were Biology, Algebra, Child Development, Composition, English, Critical Thinking, Psychology, Entrepreneurship, Foods, Economics, Social Studies, Interpersonal Communication, and classes related to my current field. The classes I disliked most were gym class, art, sewing, and classes related to other careers that I didn't end up pursuing. Gym class was my least favorite by far, and I paid other people to do a lot of my art projects.

Combination of strategy+intuition. INTjs are characteristically known for dumping menial tasks on others.

I can't decide whether I'm introverted or extroverted. When I'm talking to someone, I am usually extroverted, especially if someone gets me going about something I'm interested in, usually related to my philosophies about life, my goals, or a subject related to my field.

Ixxx

Sometimes I enjoy going to parties or bars, but not as much as I did when I was younger. Most of the time I prefer to just stay at home with my husband and kids though, and if I go somewhere it's usually family oriented. Going out to parties, bars, and clubs just doesn't sound enjoyable anymore. Most of the socializing I do with adults is with my colleagues. I tend to get involved in big projects at work if it's something that I think needs to be done. I'm also very involved in a couple of trade associations. I end up in leadership roles on occasion. I don't feel like I need to be in charge of others, but if I see something that I think should be done, the easiest way for me to do it is to take on a leadership role and delegate a lot of the responsibilities to people who are willing to do stuff but don't have much initiative.

Aristocracy for accepting of social role. Fi sort of balanced with Ti for the ability though not the desire to lead. Anyway, a sensoric hidden agenda for the delegation of jobs part.

I think I'm intuitive. I'm not as connected to the physical world as most people seem to be, which sometimes causes trouble for me. Most of the people who get to know me say that I'm unusual or strange or something like that. I usually feel a little flattered when they say that, but I don't try to be weird. I just am what I am. Things that I pride myself in are my knowledge related to my field, my goal orientation, my trustworthiness, my directness, my ability to learn quickly, and my boldness. I'm not proud to admit that I've got a fiery temper, can be impatient and irritated at small things, and procrastinate on things that I don't feel like doing.

The bolded part says 'negative'-'result'. The italicized part says 'judicious'.

I'm not really sure what else to write about that would help in figuring out my type.

You don't have to. IJ-Ne with somewhat more INFj than INTj tendencies from what's seen here.

That's what I get anyway.
...

@Courage... Wrong subtype. The difference is severe.

[eunice]

@Smilex: it's interesting that we share the same opinions about types so far.

[Smilingeyes]

@Smilex: it's interesting that we share the same opinions about types so far.

*shrug* You've just been correct twice.

[Gilly]

@Smilex: it's interesting that we share the same opinions about types so far.

*shrug* You've just been correct twice.

Wow...

[Minde]

@Smilex: it's interesting that we share the same opinions about types so far.

*shrug* You've just been correct twice.

*kicks under the table* Hey, be nice. She found it interesting. Don't discourage that.

[Smilingeyes]

@Smilex: it's interesting that we share the same opinions about types so far.

*shrug* You've just been correct twice.

*kicks under the table* Hey, be nice. She found it interesting. Don't discourage that.

Hey, I'm a one INFj man. I can't be seen dallying with other duals. Besides, she's all wrong subtype too. But ok, ok...

Eunice, I'd like to congratulate you for writing something that made me happy and allowed me to agree with you. I don't find it particularly awesome to be able to notice identicals but I found your prompt suggestion of ISFp-Si in the previous case astute. If you want to at some point compare our ideas and knowledge of some matter important to you, I might be open to that.

Minde: That ok?

[Minde]

Minde: That ok?

That's better. Thank you. It doesn't hurt to be nice to people who mean you well. In fact, quite the opposite - it's wise and beneficial.

[Ezra]

That is a very cute picture, Minde.

[Smilingeyes]

Minde: That ok?

That's better. Thank you. It doesn't hurt to be nice to people who mean you well. In fact, quite the opposite - it's wise and beneficial.

*Nod*

[Minde]

That is a very cute picture, Minde.

Thank you! She's a very cute little girl. A little on the uncaring-about-her-appearance and thoughtless-of-consequences side, but cuddly and sweet, too. Sadly, I only got to interact with her for a short while.

[Celeste]

Thank you for your responses everybody. It looks like ENTj and INFj are the two main suggestions. If someone could direct me to some good descriptions I'd appreciate it.

As a teenager I was still quiet at school, but around coworkers and friends I'd laugh and play around and talk a lot. For the most part I generally had one good female friend, and I'd hang out with her other friends. I'd also have a few other friends that I'd talk to at school or do stuff with once in a while.

Fi>Fe, possibly Gamma depending on your relations with the whole group. Can you go into that?

Usually I'm not very comfortable in groups of people in a social setting, depending on the group. When I spent time with a friend's group of friends, or even one other person, most of the time I felt like I wasn't part of the group. I'd just try to be polite, and I'd have side conversations with some of the people in the group if I got the chance. On occasion I become very extroverted in groups though. If the people in the group are quiet and seem interested in what I have to say, then I am confident, loud, and talkative. Also, if the people in the group are all people who I've had other conversations with, I may not be as quiet. When I went to parties I was usually the center of attention, telling a lot of stories and being loud and playful, but I would have been drinking at the time so I don't know if I'm like that because of my type. In sober conversations with individuals I tend to tell a lot of stories, too, and in group situations I can only be truly comfortable if everyone's listening to me instead of having conversations with me or others.

Sometimes I became good friends with one or two of my friend's friends. At school during lunch, for example, I'd usually only talk to the people at the table that I already somewhat knew, or sometimes a really quiet person who seemed out of place. For most of the people I would wait until I had a class with them, then I'd have casual conversations with them to get to know them.

In professional settings I am comfortable in groups, especially if I have something work related to talk about.

I think it's worth mentioning that most of the people who have known me for a long time see me as being extroverted, even if I'm awkward or shy in groups of people.

The subjects I enjoyed most in high school and college were Biology, Algebra, Child Development, Composition, English, Critical Thinking, Psychology, Entrepreneurship, Foods, Economics, Social Studies, Interpersonal Communication, and classes related to my current field. The classes I disliked most were gym class, art, sewing, and classes related to other careers that I didn't end up pursuing. Gym class was my least favorite by far, and I paid other people to do a lot of my art projects.

Can you go into more detail?

I don't know what type of details you want, but I'll explain my attitudes about classes better.

I usually only liked a class if the subject matter itself interesting to me. The whole ordeal of going to classes was annoying though. I disliked classes that involved activity, except Foods classes because most of what we learned had to do with the science of cooking, such as coagulation and emulsifying ingredients. I approached cooking more like it was chemistry. I disliked labs in science classes because it seemed like a lot of meaningless activity, but Foods class was different because we got to eat our projects. I also enjoyed learning about the origins and history of different dishes.

I can't decide whether I'm introverted or extroverted. When I'm talking to someone, I am usually extroverted, especially if someone gets me going about something I'm interested in, usually related to my philosophies about life, my goals, or a subject related to my field. Sometimes I enjoy going to parties or bars, but not as much as I did when I was younger. Most of the time I prefer to just stay at home with my husband and kids though, and if I go somewhere it's usually family oriented. Going out to parties, bars, and clubs just doesn't sound enjoyable anymore. Most of the socializing I do with adults is with my colleagues. I tend to get involved in big projects at work if it's something that I think needs to be done. I'm also very involved in a couple of trade associations. I end up in leadership roles on occasion. I don't feel like I need to be in charge of others, but if I see something that I think should be done, the easiest way for me to do it is to take on a leadership role and delegate a lot of the responsibilities to people who are willing to do stuff but don't have much initiative.

This sounds Gamma to me.

Will you talk of your own volition, or do you need to be "opened up"?

It depends on the situation, but usually I'm an eager talker if someone is a willing listener. I'm usually comfortable initiating a conversation with a new person if it's just me and that person, but I don't just start conversations with every person I'm in an elevator with or something like that. It depends on whether or not I feel like talking at the time. I'll talk endlessly if I'm with someone who's quiet and seems interested in what I'm saying, but honestly, sometimes I wonder if some of those people only seem quiet to me because I talk so much.

I'm not proud to admit that I've got a fiery temper, can be impatient and irritated at small things, and procrastinate on things that I don't feel like doing.

What sort of small things?

I may get irritated and possibly even yell, or on a bad day, I may even throw or slam things if I can't find something I need, if something relatively small goes wrong with a project I'm working on, if the traffic light turns red while the person in front of me was needlessly hesitating, if my kids are nagging me while I'm trying to finish up something, if my plans for the day get changed, if a coworker is making things take too long because they want to do things a certain way for reasons that don't matter, if I take a wrong turn, if I have to sit in traffic, if my relatives ask me to do little things for them, if I spill something on my clothes when I'm trying to get ready for work, if I'm having problems with my computer, if we run out of something that I need, if I forget to mail something and miss a deadline or due date, if my husband or kids are being too loud while I'm trying to concentrate, if I can't find something to wear, or if people are walking too slowly in the grocery store and I can't walk around them. As I was saying, I'm not proud of this. Fortunately, most of the time the only people who see me like that are people who I'm close to.

[Celeste]

When I was a kid my favorite thing to do was climb trees and just sit up in them and think for a long time. I was shy and quiet around other kids, but overall I've always been really talkative. I was never good at sports, but I played baseball and softball for a couple of seasons and enjoyed it. I liked to ride my bike a lot though, and I did that quite a bit. I also enjoyed cooking as a kid.

I think type changes so I'm not really interested in this. Anyway, I take it that you liked team sports because of the feeling of being able to do something significant for the group.

Actually, I hindered my team. I wasn't very good at sports. I didn't care about the game, either. I think I liked being on those teams because it gave me a chance to spend time with other kids. Like I said, I wasn't very good at socializing with other kids most of the time. There was also a feeling of not wanting to go through my childhood without having those types of experiences. I tried taking music lessons a couple times for the same reason, but I didn't have enough patience to practice everyday, so it didn't go anywhere.

The subjects I enjoyed most in high school and college were Biology, Algebra, Child Development, Composition, English, Critical Thinking, Psychology, Entrepreneurship, Foods, Economics, Social Studies, Interpersonal Communication, and classes related to my current field. The classes I disliked most were gym class, art, sewing, and classes related to other careers that I didn't end up pursuing. Gym class was my least favorite by far, and I paid other people to do a lot of my art projects.

Combination of strategy+intuition. INTjs are characteristically known for dumping menial tasks on others.

I do that a lot. I don't see any reason to do things that I don't want to do if it's possible to delegate the task.

Sometimes I enjoy going to parties or bars, but not as much as I did when I was younger. Most of the time I prefer to just stay at home with my husband and kids though, and if I go somewhere it's usually family oriented. Going out to parties, bars, and clubs just doesn't sound enjoyable anymore. Most of the socializing I do with adults is with my colleagues. I tend to get involved in big projects at work if it's something that I think needs to be done. I'm also very involved in a couple of trade associations. I end up in leadership roles on occasion. I don't feel like I need to be in charge of others, but if I see something that I think should be done, the easiest way for me to do it is to take on a leadership role and delegate a lot of the responsibilities to people who are willing to do stuff but don't have much initiative.

Aristocracy for accepting of social role. Fi sort of balanced with Ti for the ability though not the desire to lead. Anyway, a sensoric hidden agenda for the delegation of jobs part.

I don't see my leadership activities as being social roles at all. Something about that idea doesn't sit right with me. I'm just doing what makes the most sense in order to accomplish things that I think should be done. If that means asking or letting someone else take on leadership responsibilities, I'm perfectly happy with that. It's less work for me, as long as that person handles things well.

[Khamelion]

I may get irritated and possibly even yell, or on a bad day, I may even throw or slam things if I can't find something I need, if something relatively small goes wrong with a project I'm working on, if the traffic light turns red while the person in front of me was needlessly hesitating, if my kids are nagging me while I'm trying to finish up something, if my plans for the day get changed, if a coworker is making things take too long because they want to do things a certain way for reasons that don't matter, if I take a wrong turn, if I have to sit in traffic, if my relatives ask me to do little things for them, if I spill something on my clothes when I'm trying to get ready for work, if I'm having problems with my computer, if we run out of something that I need, if I forget to mail something and miss a deadline or due date, if my husband or kids are being too loud while I'm trying to concentrate, if I can't find something to wear, or if people are walking too slowly in the grocery store and I can't walk around them. As I was saying, I'm not proud of this. Fortunately, most of the time the only people who see me like that are people who I'm close to.

This sounds like my ENTp fiance, the anger issue.

[eunice]

@Smilex: it's interesting that we share the same opinions about types so far.

*shrug* You've just been correct twice.

*kicks under the table* Hey, be nice. She found it interesting. Don't discourage that.

Hey, I'm a one INFj man. I can't be seen dallying with other duals. Besides, she's all wrong subtype too. But ok, ok...

Eunice, I'd like to congratulate you for writing something that made me happy and allowed me to agree with you. I don't find it particularly awesome to be able to notice identicals but I found your prompt suggestion of ISFp-Si in the previous case astute. If you want to at some point compare our ideas and knowledge of some matter important to you, I might be open to that.

Minde: That ok?

[Expat]

I see

Fi > Fe
Ni > Si

So Gamma.

More likely extravert than introvert.

[UDP]

@Courage... Wrong subtype. The difference is severe.

I agree the types are vastly different (And I agree with you that it is a lot easier of it is same-rationality subtype...) but she does seem Ni>Si, and ENTj seems possible.

[Celeste]

Usually I'm not very comfortable in groups of people in a social setting, depending on the group. When I spent time with a friend's group of friends, or even one other person, most of the time I felt like I wasn't part of the group. I'd just try to be polite, and I'd have side conversations with some of the people in the group if I got the chance. On occasion I become very extroverted in groups though. If the people in the group are quiet and seem interested in what I have to say, then I am confident, loud, and talkative. Also, if the people in the group are all people who I've had other conversations with, I may not be as quiet. When I went to parties I was usually the center of attention, telling a lot of stories and being loud and playful, but I would have been drinking at the time so I don't know if I'm like that because of my type. In sober conversations with individuals I tend to tell a lot of stories, too, and in group situations I can only be truly comfortable if everyone's listening to me instead of having conversations with me or others.

I'd say that you're Gamma from this. The bolded part in particular is a typical Gamma sort of behaviour, note this article on Wikisocion.

That page is very interesting, and most of it reflects the way I think and my behavior. The people who said that I'm Gamma are probably correct.

The fact that you "try" to be polite could suggest role (which would be ENTj if you are Gamma).

I should expand on that a little more.

When I'm in a social setting, I often feel out of place. I don't want do anything that would make me stand out, but I also don't want to seem unfriendly. I try to smile and chuckle when people are telling stories and when they make comments, but sometimes I end up laughing when I shouldn't as a result. In a situation where there's a room full of people that are socializing I either end up talking to one person for a long time or trying to figure out which groups or conversations are okay to butt in on and which ones it would be rude to invite myself into. I hate that.

Sometimes I became good friends with one or two of my friend's friends. At school during lunch, for example, I'd usually only talk to the people at the table that I already somewhat knew, or sometimes a really quiet person who seemed out of place. For most of the people I would wait until I had a class with them, then I'd have casual conversations with them to get to know them.

Again Gamma, and possibly extroversion as you seem to imply that you're the one to take initiative in getting to know them. Would that be correct?

In a way that's correct. I don't mind approaching people and starting conversations with them, but in order for a person to become an actual friend, they usually have to invite me to do something with them. I rarely ask anyone, even someone who I get along with extremely well, do something outside of work or class.

I will tentatively say that this suggests you value Ni. My interpretation of the paragraph is that you dislike activity that doesn't have some sort of result in the long-term (for example -- eating the food), and see the rest as pointless busy work. Would that be correct?

Yes. I'm not lazy, but I do try not to waste my time or effort. There's a lot I aim to accomplish during my lifetime, so I prefer to put my time and energy into the things that have the maximum long term benefit. Direction is important. If I fussed over unnecessary things, it would take me much longer to accomplish my goals. I would probably wouldn't accomplish most of them at all. The saying "Don't work hard, work smart" summarizes my point of view very well.

It depends on the situation, but usually I'm an eager talker if someone is a willing listener. I'm usually comfortable initiating a conversation with a new person if it's just me and that person, but I don't just start conversations with every person I'm in an elevator with or something like that. It depends on whether or not I feel like talking at the time. I'll talk endlessly if I'm with someone who's quiet and seems interested in what I'm saying, but honestly, sometimes I wonder if some of those people only seem quiet to me because I talk so much.

I think you're an extrovert. :wink: You seem rather focussed on your own initiative.

What sort of things influence whether or not you feel like talking?

I don't really know. Sometimes I just don't feel like talking. I'll still talk to my family, but I don't check my email, voice mail, or make business calls. I even try to avoid going places where I may run into someone I know, but chances are good if I don't feel like talking, I also won't want to go anywhere either, even if I won't have to talk to anyone.

I've tried to explain this to some people, but when I tell them that I sometimes try to avoid leaving the house, talking to people, or doing anything, sometimes they suggest that I might have depression, bipolar, or cyclothymia. I've looked them up, and I don't have any of those conditions.

I may get irritated and possibly even yell, or on a bad day, I may even throw or slam things if I can't find something I need, if something relatively small goes wrong with a project I'm working on, if the traffic light turns red while the person in front of me was needlessly hesitating, if my kids are nagging me while I'm trying to finish up something, if my plans for the day get changed, if a coworker is making things take too long because they want to do things a certain way for reasons that don't matter, if I take a wrong turn, if I have to sit in traffic, if my relatives ask me to do little things for them, if I spill something on my clothes when I'm trying to get ready for work, if I'm having problems with my computer, if we run out of something that I need, if I forget to mail something and miss a deadline or due date, if my husband or kids are being too loud while I'm trying to concentrate, if I can't find something to wear, or if people are walking too slowly in the grocery store and I can't walk around them. As I was saying, I'm not proud of this. Fortunately, most of the time the only people who see me like that are people who I'm close to.

It could be many things, but some of those things remind me of something Expat posted a while back about losing his temper with traffic problems (I think it's in the ""Te views of reality as perceived by the types" thread). Unforseen, stupid little environmental things that get in the way.

I relate to that description as well. Te is Gamma, right?


INFj has been suggested by a few people, and ENTj has been suggested by a couple of people. How can I determine if I'm one of those types? Should I read some descriptions of those types? If so, which ones should I read. If not, what's the next step in determining my type?

[Smilingeyes]

I agree with Thunder about you being xNxJ. It is naturally possible that I'm wrong about your type but if that is the case I'd like to have clarification on a number of things.

1. First a comment: That page is very interesting, and most of it reflects the way I think and my behavior. The people who said that I'm Gamma are probably correct.
People should not type other people or themselves based on the quadra descriptions on wikisocion.

2.
When I'm in a social setting, I often feel out of place. I don't want do anything that would make me stand out, but I also don't want to seem unfriendly. I try to smile and chuckle when people are telling stories and when they make comments, but sometimes I end up laughing when I shouldn't as a result. In a situation where there's a room full of people that are socializing I either end up talking to one person for a long time or trying to figure out which groups or conversations are okay to butt in on and which ones it would be rude to invite myself into. I hate that.

ENTjs stand out. They're quite capable of pushing their opinions into whatever conversation regardless of what knowledge they have or whatever their personal relation to the issue. Their whole behaviour model is about maintaining central position regarding the group so as to be able to make sure the parts of the group work as they're supposed to. ENTjs are also known for being very inappropriate in a group setting, rowdiness and generally disregarding social norms. When they talk, they talk as if they were addressing the whole of society, not an individual. ENTjs do NOT "try to smile and chuckle when people are telling stories" Such behaviour compromises their social standing, it's not their job to please people but to guide people. So if you are ENTj, there's something strange here and I'd like to find out what.

3.
In a way that's correct. I don't mind approaching people and starting conversations with them, but in order for a person to become an actual friend, they usually have to invite me to do something with them. I rarely ask anyone, even someone who I get along with extremely well, do something outside of work or class.

ENTjs don't really have friends more than associates, people to network with. They act in generally correct ways independent of their personal relation with another. If there's a strong personal aspect to your relation with people, that's a definition of Fi. So again, here's a problem.

4. Yes. I'm not lazy, but I do try not to waste my time or effort. There's a lot I aim to accomplish during my lifetime, so I prefer to put my time and energy into the things that have the maximum long term benefit. Direction is important. If I fussed over unnecessary things, it would take me much longer to accomplish my goals. I would probably wouldn't accomplish most of them at all. The saying "Don't work hard, work smart" summarizes my point of view very well.

This defines you as xNxJ. But your choice of words "Don't work hard" is basically the Si-Ne quadra way to state this. When I used Ni, I framed it "It's just smart to take advantage of the works of others." The difference is whether you have a specific idea you plan for (Ne) or whether you maximize your capability to make use of the works of others (Ni).

5.

I don't really know. Sad Sometimes I just don't feel like talking. I'll still talk to my family, but I don't check my email, voice mail, or make business calls. I even try to avoid going places where I may run into someone I know, but chances are good if I don't feel like talking, I also won't want to go anywhere either, even if I won't have to talk to anyone.

I've tried to explain this to some people, but when I tell them that I sometimes try to avoid leaving the house, talking to people, or doing anything, sometimes they suggest that I might have depression, bipolar, or cyclothymia. I've looked them up, and I don't have any of those conditions.

This again to me makes more sense if you're IJ than if you're EJ but under specific circumstances I could see an EJ do this as well. Just... EJs tend to withdraw due to a specific insurmountable reason. IJs tend to withdraw for the accumulation of a wide variety of reasons.

6. The description of Te in the Te views thread is pretty damn generic. You suggesting you like it is of course evidence towards the idea of you being ENTj, but very very weak.

7. "most of the people who get to know me say that I'm unusual or strange or something like that. "
People who are in gamma do a lot of work to seem normal and acceptable in the general population. To be 'unusual' or 'strange' would be a significant drawback except when the words are used in an expressly positive context as in extraordinary. Deltas and Alphas tend to deviate from normalcy. So if you are strange and you're gamma, and more to the point if you can accept yourself as strange, there's something... odd ... in the situation.

Of all the talk you've given of your group behaviour I get the idea that you are loud, "extrovert" and social with people with whom you have been able to form a personal connection and otherwise, with stranger, not loud at all, but quiet. If you feel this is accurate, you are more likely to be INFj.

If on the other hand you are generally social with whomever you meet and try to draw attention on yourself and withdraw when either everything is going along as you want it to or there's a specific problem you have to fix, you're more likely to be ENTj.

Okay... so if you find out at some point that you're ENTj I'd really appreciate it if you could clarify these points to me on how and why you said such things, because I'd like to understand it. Otherwise... Good luck and don't believe everything people say to you. Though I doubt you do.

[Joy]

People should not type other people or themselves based on the quadra descriptions on wikisocion.

But people should type themselves based on the Reinin dichotomies? LMFAO



I've only skimmed this thread, but ENTj seems most likely at this point.

Celeste, in understanding a type, it's absolutely essential to understand it's relationship with it's dual. Check out this thread: http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13635

[Smilingeyes]

People should not type other people or themselves based on the quadra descriptions on wikisocion.

But people should type themselves based on the Reinin dichotomies? LMFAO

As a general rule, at this point, no. Using Reinin dichotomies requires a measure of understanding and skill that is somewhat lacking in the general population of the forum.
As for myself I am as yet, unsure. So far I know that classical socionics does NOT work. I am so far unsure of whether Reinin typing works. I'm currently testing it and my ability to type people purely based on dichotomies. So far my results have been good, certainly not worse than anyone else on the forum has shown with any other typing method. But it is a work in progress and my ability as of yet to note the dichotomies in action is limited. So I'm quite willing to accept the possibility that I'm incorrect if the evidence so shows. Now as far as I've seen ENTjs OTOH will continue to claim that a person is a certain given type no matter how much evidence to the contrary there is. Since your suggestions are non-falsifiable I see no reason why any sane person would debate with you and your vague impressions of people. The silly thing is that given the typing methods you use most of the people I call ENTjs here are INFps in your system with Te PoLR because you can't or are unwilling to handle facts. So there's your classical socionics for you. ...

So as for now, I'm going to continue testing whether typing by dichotomies works and you're going to continue playing as if you already knew everything. Good day to ye.

[Joy]

So far I know that classical socionics does NOT work.

Wow...

I'll just say this: Classical Socionics works, but ONLY if you're typed correctly.

The silly thing is that given the typing methods you use most of the people I call ENTjs here are INFps in your system with Te PoLR because you can't or are unwilling to handle facts.

Facts? That's the issue here... what you consider to be "facts" are subjective logical judgments ("subjective" is a Socionics term in this sentence). What you believe to be Te is Ti + Se. That is why you think the Te types here do not accept "Te". It's because you're not presenting Ti, you're forcefully attempting to enforce (Se) your own structured understanding of a system that you've created (Ti).

(btw, the fact that you structured your system using information provided by Socionists does not make it Te simply because that information came from an "outside source". Almost all information comes from outside sources. Ti types don't just make stuff up. Instead, they take outside information and use it to create a structured understanding of the subject. That is EXACTLY what you've done.)

and you're going to continue playing as if you already knew everything

Know? I don't KNOW anything, and I'm more than willing to reconsider my understanding of anything, if new information is provided. What you provide isn't new information, it's your own Ti.

[Joy]

Celeste, sorry to have hijacked your type thread. If this debate continues, I'll request that a moderator split the debate from the rest of the topic.

[Smilingeyes]

So far I know that classical socionics does NOT work.

Wow...

I'll just say this: Classical Socionics works, but ONLY if you're typed correctly.

The silly thing is that given the typing methods you use most of the people I call ENTjs here are INFps in your system with Te PoLR because you can't or are unwilling to handle facts.

Facts? That's the issue here... what you consider to be "facts" are subjective logical judgments ("subjective" is a Socionics term in this sentence). What you believe to be Te is Ti + Se. That is why you think the Te types here do not accept "Te". It's because you're not presenting Ti, you're forcefully attempting to enforce (Se) your own structured understanding of a system that you've created (Ti).

(btw, the fact that you structured your system using information provided by Socionists does not make it Te simply because that information came from an "outside source". Almost all information comes from outside sources. Ti types don't just make stuff up. Instead, they take outside information and use it to create a structured understanding of the subject. That is EXACTLY what you've done.)

and you're going to continue playing as if you already knew everything

Know? I don't KNOW anything, and I'm more than willing to reconsider my understanding of anything, if new information is provided. What you provide isn't new information, it's your own Ti.

@Joy: Was there any point to your post? Your post is purely ideological babble. Total disconnection from reality. For future reference: I don't even have a system. I have a set of axioms that I'm trying to connect into a system of Si. There's a difference. I hope you'll see it at some point.

[eunice]

@Celeste: I can *really* identify with your inner motivations and rationale behind your thoughts and behaviour, especially after you have posted your replies to the thread. For a moment, I thought I was reading my own lifestory. I guess I have finally read about someone who reminded me too much of myself. INFj-Ne, fwiw.

[Not A Communist Shill]

@Celeste: I can *really* identify with your inner motivations and rationale behind your thoughts and behaviour, especially after you have posted your replies to the thread. For a moment, I thought I was reading my own lifestory. I guess I have finally read about someone who reminded me too much of myself. INFj-Ne, fwiw.

From your first response in this thread, I thought you were implying that you and Celeste were the same person, and that you were trying to be typed without past judgements getting in the way . D'oh...

[Expat]

Two points:

1) Celeste as per her description is most likely ENTj imo.

2) I agree 100% with Joy's comments on Smilexian and classical socionics.

[Joy]

So far I know that classical socionics does NOT work.

Wow...

I'll just say this: Classical Socionics works, but ONLY if you're typed correctly.

The silly thing is that given the typing methods you use most of the people I call ENTjs here are INFps in your system with Te PoLR because you can't or are unwilling to handle facts.

Facts? That's the issue here... what you consider to be "facts" are subjective logical judgments ("subjective" is a Socionics term in this sentence). What you believe to be Te is Ti + Se. That is why you think the Te types here do not accept "Te". It's because you're not presenting Ti, you're forcefully attempting to enforce (Se) your own structured understanding of a system that you've created (Ti).

(btw, the fact that you structured your system using information provided by Socionists does not make it Te simply because that information came from an "outside source". Almost all information comes from outside sources. Ti types don't just make stuff up. Instead, they take outside information and use it to create a structured understanding of the subject. That is EXACTLY what you've done.)

and you're going to continue playing as if you already knew everything

Know? I don't KNOW anything, and I'm more than willing to reconsider my understanding of anything, if new information is provided. What you provide isn't new information, it's your own Ti.

@Joy: Was there any point to your post? Your post is purely ideological babble. Total disconnection from reality. For future reference: I don't even have a system. I have a set of axioms that I'm trying to connect into a system of Si. There's a difference. I hope you'll see it at some point.

I cannot even begin to understand how any version of Socionics (or any other theory) could be a Si system.

Si:

tangible connections between processes happening in one place and time: reflections of events on one's inner state; sensations, what one experiences physically

Also, if an axiom is always true, it is by definition Ti > Te (though of course every type has to use them).

[Smilingeyes]

I cannot even begin to understand how any version of Socionics (or any other theory) could be a Si system.

Si:

tangible connections between processes happening in one place and time: reflections of events on one's inner state; sensations, what one experiences physically

Also, if an axiom is always true, it is by definition Ti > Te (though of course every type has to use them).

Do you know anything of anything at all? Is there no limit to how bad you are at this? An axiom can by definition never be Ti, it's extrovert by definition. You mock Reinin dichotomies and you still pick as your definition of the difference between Te and Ti a perverted version of the subjective-objective dichotomy? And since you don't know absolutely anything at all about Si there's not really anything you should be saying about it is there?

At this point I'd normally just remove myself from the thread since the collective ineptitude of the ENTjs in this thread has reached what I feel are irredeemable levels but since though none of you ENTjs care about it, this thread is supposed to be about Celeste, I won't. There's questions that remain unanswered.

[Joy]

I cannot even begin to understand how any version of Socionics (or any other theory) could be a Si system.

Si:

tangible connections between processes happening in one place and time: reflections of events on one's inner state; sensations, what one experiences physically

Also, if an axiom is always true, it is by definition Ti > Te (though of course every type has to use them).

Do you know anything of anything at all? Is there no limit to how bad you are at this? An axiom can by definition never be Ti, it's extrovert by definition. You mock Reinin dichotomies and you still pick as your definition of the difference between Te and Ti a perverted version of the subjective-objective dichotomy? And since you don't know absolutely anything at all about Si there's not really anything you should be saying about it is there?

At this point I'd normally just remove myself from the thread since the collective ineptitude of the ENTjs in this thread has reached what I feel are irredeemable levels but since though none of you ENTjs care about it, this thread is supposed to be about Celeste, I won't. There's questions that remain unanswered.

I hope you don't think this post is Te.

[Celeste]

In a way that's correct. I don't mind approaching people and starting conversations with them, but in order for a person to become an actual friend, they usually have to invite me to do something with them. I rarely ask anyone, even someone who I get along with extremely well, do something outside of work or class.

Why?

I haven't fully figured that out myself. I logically know that there's no reason not to and they're more likely to say yes than not, but when I think about doing it I decide not to because I don't know if they think that I'm just someone they get along with, or if they'd actually be interested in spending their personal time and putting forth effort just to see me. Maybe I'm totally wrong and they would see my invitation as crossing a line. And even if they do say yes, I'm not sure how well we'd actually get along if we did stuff and spent time together outside of work or school.

[Celeste]

I agree with Thunder about you being xNxJ. It is naturally possible that I'm wrong about your type but if that is the case I'd like to have clarification on a number of things.

1. First a comment: That page is very interesting, and most of it reflects the way I think and my behavior. The people who said that I'm Gamma are probably correct.
People should not type other people or themselves based on the quadra descriptions on wikisocion.

2.
When I'm in a social setting, I often feel out of place. I don't want do anything that would make me stand out, but I also don't want to seem unfriendly. I try to smile and chuckle when people are telling stories and when they make comments, but sometimes I end up laughing when I shouldn't as a result. In a situation where there's a room full of people that are socializing I either end up talking to one person for a long time or trying to figure out which groups or conversations are okay to butt in on and which ones it would be rude to invite myself into. I hate that.

ENTjs stand out. They're quite capable of pushing their opinions into whatever conversation regardless of what knowledge they have or whatever their personal relation to the issue. Their whole behaviour model is about maintaining central position regarding the group so as to be able to make sure the parts of the group work as they're supposed to. ENTjs are also known for being very inappropriate in a group setting, rowdiness and generally disregarding social norms. When they talk, they talk as if they were addressing the whole of society, not an individual. ENTjs do NOT "try to smile and chuckle when people are telling stories" Such behaviour compromises their social standing, it's not their job to please people but to guide people. So if you are ENTj, there's something strange here and I'd like to find out what.

3.
In a way that's correct. I don't mind approaching people and starting conversations with them, but in order for a person to become an actual friend, they usually have to invite me to do something with them. I rarely ask anyone, even someone who I get along with extremely well, do something outside of work or class.

ENTjs don't really have friends more than associates, people to network with. They act in generally correct ways independent of their personal relation with another. If there's a strong personal aspect to your relation with people, that's a definition of Fi. So again, here's a problem.

4. Yes. I'm not lazy, but I do try not to waste my time or effort. There's a lot I aim to accomplish during my lifetime, so I prefer to put my time and energy into the things that have the maximum long term benefit. Direction is important. If I fussed over unnecessary things, it would take me much longer to accomplish my goals. I would probably wouldn't accomplish most of them at all. The saying "Don't work hard, work smart" summarizes my point of view very well.

This defines you as xNxJ. But your choice of words "Don't work hard" is basically the Si-Ne quadra way to state this. When I used Ni, I framed it "It's just smart to take advantage of the works of others." The difference is whether you have a specific idea you plan for (Ne) or whether you maximize your capability to make use of the works of others (Ni).

5.

I don't really know. Sad Sometimes I just don't feel like talking. I'll still talk to my family, but I don't check my email, voice mail, or make business calls. I even try to avoid going places where I may run into someone I know, but chances are good if I don't feel like talking, I also won't want to go anywhere either, even if I won't have to talk to anyone.

I've tried to explain this to some people, but when I tell them that I sometimes try to avoid leaving the house, talking to people, or doing anything, sometimes they suggest that I might have depression, bipolar, or cyclothymia. I've looked them up, and I don't have any of those conditions.

This again to me makes more sense if you're IJ than if you're EJ but under specific circumstances I could see an EJ do this as well. Just... EJs tend to withdraw due to a specific insurmountable reason. IJs tend to withdraw for the accumulation of a wide variety of reasons.

6. The description of Te in the Te views thread is pretty damn generic. You suggesting you like it is of course evidence towards the idea of you being ENTj, but very very weak.

7. "most of the people who get to know me say that I'm unusual or strange or something like that. "
People who are in gamma do a lot of work to seem normal and acceptable in the general population. To be 'unusual' or 'strange' would be a significant drawback except when the words are used in an expressly positive context as in extraordinary. Deltas and Alphas tend to deviate from normalcy. So if you are strange and you're gamma, and more to the point if you can accept yourself as strange, there's something... odd ... in the situation.

Of all the talk you've given of your group behaviour I get the idea that you are loud, "extrovert" and social with people with whom you have been able to form a personal connection and otherwise, with stranger, not loud at all, but quiet. If you feel this is accurate, you are more likely to be INFj.

If on the other hand you are generally social with whomever you meet and try to draw attention on yourself and withdraw when either everything is going along as you want it to or there's a specific problem you have to fix, you're more likely to be ENTj.

Okay... so if you find out at some point that you're ENTj I'd really appreciate it if you could clarify these points to me on how and why you said such things, because I'd like to understand it. Otherwise... Good luck and don't believe everything people say to you. Though I doubt you do.

Based on some of this, I'd say that ENTj isn't as likely as the type you suggested, INFj, but it seems like you're misunderstanding some of what I'm saying. I fear I've made myself sound more introverted than I actually am. People who have known me for a long time would describe me as an extrovert, and I think I am overall, but there are certain situations or certain periods when I feel introverted. I used to be a lot more extroverted, especially when I was in college. People would joke about how loud, bold, and direct I was. I've tried to tone it down since then because when I act like that there are always people who get mad at me or have a strong dislike for me. Usually I wouldn't care about that minority of people, but since almost all of my interactions with others are now directly related to my profession and financial future, I have to avoid coming off so strong.

[Celeste]

@Celeste: I can *really* identify with your inner motivations and rationale behind your thoughts and behaviour, especially after you have posted your replies to the thread. For a moment, I thought I was reading my own lifestory. I guess I have finally read about someone who reminded me too much of myself. INFj-Ne, fwiw.

[Celeste]

Two points:

1) Celeste as per her description is most likely ENTj imo.

2) I agree 100% with Joy's comments on Smilexian and classical socionics.

Does this mean that I could be ENTj in classical Socionics and INFj in Smilingeye's version of Socionics?

[discojoe]

Smilingeyes, I just want to point out the extremely strong Se you give off.