INTJ (male) + ESFJ (female) = stable ?
Anyone has idea about what is the success rate of this marriage ?
Success rate of INTj and ESFj marriages?
INTJ (male) + ESFJ (female) = stable ?
Anyone has idea about what is the success rate of this marriage ?
I've heard that its the most satisfying of dual relations. I don't have any first hand experience, however.
thing.
Yeah its supposed to be the best pairs for the INTj and the ENFj, I have a friend who's ENFj... I think it works because the ENFj is working towards goals like the INTj does... and then the rest of them complement each other so its a sort of blend.
I dated an ESFJ for a couple of months. She was a schoolteacher. Every day, she had this overwhelming urge to spend an hour or more talking about her day. Each day I got to look forward to the exact same hour long monologue for two to three months. She also had this uncontrollable urge to nag.
I really can’t see how an INTJ and an ESFJ would work.
Paul MBTI INTJ Socionics INTP
well my wife and I are pretty close. me ENTj (but socially introverted) and her ISFj (but socially the extrovert). It's been great. We've been together for 9 years total (met as freshmen in college) and there's been very little conflict, and what conflict we have had has always been resolved pretty much the same day.
I only get the hour long monologues if she's had a really bad day since she's still more of an introvert probably, and yeah she does nag a bit, but you wouldn't believe how happy it makes her if you just take care of or do some of the stuff she's nagging about. It means the world to them.
Isn't INTP<->ESFJ conflicting relations, while INTJ<->ESFJ is duality? (Perhaps that one letter can make a big difference?)Originally Posted by Paul
INTJ
I think so. There is the largest difference between j/p than with any other differing letter, IMO.Isn't INTP<->ESFJ conflicting relations, while INTJ<->ESFJ is duality? (Perhaps that one letter can make a big difference?)
Like.. changing only one letter, an INTP is least like an INTJ, and most like an ENTP
INTP--
ENTP (most similar)
ISTP
INFP
INTJ (least similar)
And it makes sense, as it would take the most effort to move from a P to a J.. It would literally equate to trying to turn an orange inside out, without damaging it.
Using MBTI, to go to an ENTP, you'd just change order of dominance of your first two functions. Hard, but not impossible. To go to an ISTP, you'd have to change your _secondary_ function. Not easy, but harder than just rearranging, as you'd have to reform your area of creativity. To go to an INFP, you'd have to change your dominant function. This is similar to what would be required to go to an ISTP, but this is your area of dominance--seems it would be a bit harder to give up. And then to go to an INTJ, you'd have to do all of the above--you'd have to let go of your dominant function, your secondary function, your judging preference, and your function order. There would be the least similarity between your old self, and who you'd become. And this seems to be manifested in relations, and in the INTP chameleon effect--it's easier to fake extraversion, than to fake alertness and awareness of the present, than to fake being ethically-driven, than to fake being ordered and judgemental. And it also holds when you look at the length of time you can fake being each time--extraversion the longest, judging, by far, the shortest.
What do you think?
thing.
Yes, that was my experience too but I didn't mind. The problem was that she seemed to expect me to find it very interesting, which I didn't, even though I listened to every word.
I can't relate to the "nagging" bit.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Worst match ever. I'm an INTJ male and I've tried it. Terrible. ESFJ's are fun for about a month - then they get to be too much work and irritating. Please take my advice and don't bother.
(i'm not saying they are irritating as people but irritating to intjs)
INTJ (and damn good at it)
Duality works best in my opinion when:
a) you're actually both in love (thus the INTj figures out later that the relation is a duality so he initially went with his feelings).
b) one or both has already experienced duality and learnt from any mistakes previous if it didn't last.
c) you have reached a certain level of maturity e.g. over 21 say, ready to have a long-term relationship.
d) you have and/or accept eachother's common interests.
e) you learn the art of being co-dependant on eachother e.g. you both can have your separate friends/lives though you always come back to eachother due to the duality phenomenon of magnetism.
Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.
Seems to me,that one should also want to become a bit like it's dual. I guess that starting idealisation of your duals behaviour, life, emotsion and to become a bit like your dual is , can make it easier to understand it and atrrract one. Otherwise, you might end up fighting a lot. This is a case, where duals do the hard tasks for each other, and then fight still ahead. I haven't been in a relationship with one, but I get better along them, if I act like they are acting. One more interesting thing is that, yes, your dual understands you as well as you do your self, she still is a mistery to you and living with your dual is best, when it is typical men-woman relationship, where each one have typical roles. INTj female-ESFj male, relationship could be harder due to that.
Man is a bit feminite and his wife is a bit masculine.
Semiotical process
wow paul, good for you. you are my hero of the day. ENFJ is very talkative, I always think that i can't keep up a conversation with a girl because of that.
""You are what you are because of the conscious and subconscious choices you have made." -- Barbara Hall"
That's just a fancy way of saying:
"You are a result of all you have thought"-Siddhartha Gautama
"To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"
"Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."
I don't understand why ENFj gets mentioned a lot in ESFj-related topics. I'm not sure if people are just mixing up their letters or what. It's regular enough to almost seem as if it's done on purpose
I(N)Tj
I am an ESFJ married to an INTJ (guy). We are both fairly "textbook" in our type descriptions. The truth is that our relationship is as rewarding as it is challenging. The chemistry is AMAZING because we are both so drawn to the other's differences. We bring out the best, and at times, the worst, in each other for sure, but I love my husband beyond belief, and could not imagine being with someone else. Being an ESFJ, I sometimes do get my feelings hurt by my husband's direct and abrupt nature, but I know that he in not TRYING to be insensitive. We are getting better at letting the other just be themselves, which is what we were drawn to in the beginning anyway!! It is true that we are POLAR OPPOSITES in personality, but we have a remarkable amount in common too. We react and express things very differently, but we understand that in each other. The toughest challenge obviously is in communication, and getting my husband to understand that I simply can't think like him (INTJ). As an INTJ, he does have EXTREMLY high expectations, but he is getting better at realizing very very few people are quite like him. He may not be the fluffy and cutesy-wootsie type, but he makes up for that by being uncommonly strong, competent, dedicated, hardworking, and protective.
Typical of ESFJ, I have elaborated quite a lot, but I think that the duality of ESFJ and INTJ CAN be a GREAT match. It's certainly not an EASY match, but it is very HOT (grrrr!!), satisfying and rewarding partnership
Are you ESFj and INTj?
This thread is rather old, but it sounds like half the people were talking MBTI.
Sounds perfect!
People new to Socionics, who come from an MBTI background, often pick up ideas like intertype relations without realizing that there's a difference between how MBTI classifies people and how Socionics classifies people. Consequently, capitalizing the last letter is often (but not always) a sign that the user has not yet become aware of this distinction. In my opinion, Aiss and VixenDogFox were not behaving unreasonably in trying to clear up this uncertainty.
Quaero Veritas.
Actually it can, you even deny this point yourself in second paragraph.
What did I conclude again? Escaped my notice again. These runaway conclusions will be the death of me.
To answer your suggestions - it sometimes happens on MBTI forums that people google something like XXXx + XXXx and revive a five year old or so thread in their first post. The use of 'duality' in this context doesn't make it impossible, although perhaps less likely.
I am an ESFJ married to an INTJ (guy). We are both fairly "textbook" in our type descriptions. The truth is that our relationship is as rewarding as it is challenging. The chemistry is AMAZING because we are both so drawn to the other's differences. We bring out the best, and at times, the worst, in each other for sure, but I love my husband beyond belief, and could not imagine being with someone else. Being an ESFJ, I sometimes do get my feelings hurt by my husband's direct and abrupt nature, but I know that he in not TRYING to be insensitive. We are getting better at letting the other just be themselves, which is what we were drawn to in the beginning anyway!! It is true that we are POLAR OPPOSITES in personality, but we have a remarkable amount in common too. We react and express things very differently, but we understand that in each other. The toughest challenge obviously is in communication, and getting my husband to understand that I simply can't think like him (INTJ). As an INTJ, he does have EXTREMLY high expectations, but he is getting better at realizing very very few people are quite like him. He may not be the fluffy and cutesy-wootsie type, but he makes up for that by being uncommonly strong, competent, dedicated, hardworking, and protective.
Typical of ESFJ, I have elaborated quite a lot, but I think that the duality of ESFJ and INTJ CAN be a GREAT match. It's certainly not an EASY match, but it is very HOT (grrrr!!), satisfying and rewarding partnershipwow that's just great. i'm happy for you!!
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
They're broken up by now.
ILI (FINAL ANSWER)
In seven hours?
Blaze happens to be quoting the post that necro'd this thread earlier today.
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
I find ESFjs I know in real life quite annoying and way too expressive, and they're always trying to get emotions out of others, especially wild and crazy, "neutral tinted positive" and rather meaningless talk, it's sick. They have that EJ paranoia. One turned my ISTj best friend into a trivial joke when they were dating.
Sooo... what you're saying is that ESFjs and INTps probably won't get along very well?
Quaero Veritas.
Probably not. There is also the idea that conflictors may seem like duals when you first see them, which I haven't noticed at all. Duals usually seem like duals.
No no no. What he's clearly saying is that his post in no way adds to the substance of this thread that resurrected from the lowest depths of Heck.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Whoops I confused the post's date with the rest of the 2005 thread.In seven hours?
Blaze happens to be quoting the post that necro'd this thread earlier today.
ILI (FINAL ANSWER)
I think the differences between duals is exaggerated in most cases. Yes we need complementary traits, but we also need similar traits. If there aren't enough similar traits... well...
The saddest ESFj
...
Whereas bitter people pick on others for lack of better argument.
Where do you see me making any conclusions in this thread? Or accusations for that matter? I asked whether she was using socionics. If you have a problem with it, it's your problem, not mine.
that doesn't look like a question to me(alphas tend to take observations seriously)
Last edited by electric sheep; 04-23-2010 at 05:48 AM.
The saddest ESFj
...
Oh my goodness! That is the most epic .gif I have ever seen!
Quaero Veritas.
This observation is about thread in general, not about esfjgirl and her typings, as was the first question. I rather think Pinocchio meant the latter here:that doesn't look like a question to me
Even if you assume it's a conclusion because it doesn't end with question mark, it doesn't make it any more about esfjgirl, and therefore her typing, or confusion, or implied exaggeration on my part. :sigh:Mistyping is not something uncommon, and it's not usually related to this confusion, it's exaggerated to put a wrong conclusion on that, imo.
necro'd? hahahahaIn seven hours?
Blaze happens to be quoting the post that necro'd this thread earlier today.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Works with understanding
My husband is INTJ and I'm ESFJ. We have a strong marriage but we had to learn communication. I don't nag at him because I know he doesn't respond well. I give him his space and take care of all of his needs. If I want to talk about his day he knows he doesn't have to actually listen unless I express that specific need. Sometimes I've just been alone all day and need someone to talk to. Responses aren't necessary. My husband says we are a great match because we are similar in the important areas and complement each other. It takes understanding to make this pairing work, and sacrifice for both parties. ESFJs who need to be in charge are a pain for INTJs. INTJs who refuse to meet an ESFJs need of approval hurt the ESFJ.
Yeah, I've often heard people say this about initial stage of their relations. Approval and understanding are big starting points. I think it's just easier to meet a dual who's parents are a dual to them, hence a dual to you. I think my boyfriend's mother is INFj
Um, my boyfriend and I are like two peas in a pod. It makes me wonder.
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
if you are identified correctly AND your "dual" is really your dual, then this is the best, breathtaking experience... It is not easy at first! because you are so different. but then... you live and breath in the same rhythm, you think the same thoughts... when you start talking - it goes for hours! and time flies. Among duals there is no competition, no counting who started what - information is tossed equally between them: one thought of something, the other took it only to give it back to the dual after processing it and making it refined... It's the best I've had... It's the best he's had... but we are not together... physically not...
Is he traveling for work or something?
I loved your description thank you
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
he is my best friend and I trust him everything. Nothing physical - sex complicates everything. Why spoil something great? :-)
Oh. I judged first but I realize it's not fair.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I am guilty of it too!Oh. I judged first but I realize it's not fair.
assume things on the spot! he he he
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