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Thread: Success rate of INTj and ESFj marriages?

  1. #1
    Creepy-Justin

    Default Success rate of INTj and ESFj marriages?

    INTJ (male) + ESFJ (female) = stable ?

    Anyone has idea about what is the success rate of this marriage ?

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    I've heard that its the most satisfying of dual relations. I don't have any first hand experience, however.
    thing.

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    Yeah its supposed to be the best pairs for the INTj and the ENFj, I have a friend who's ENFj... I think it works because the ENFj is working towards goals like the INTj does... and then the rest of them complement each other so its a sort of blend.

  4. #4
    Creepy-Paul

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    I dated an ESFJ for a couple of months. She was a schoolteacher. Every day, she had this overwhelming urge to spend an hour or more talking about her day. Each day I got to look forward to the exact same hour long monologue for two to three months. She also had this uncontrollable urge to nag.

    I really can’t see how an INTJ and an ESFJ would work.

    Paul MBTI INTJ Socionics INTP

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    well my wife and I are pretty close. me ENTj (but socially introverted) and her ISFj (but socially the extrovert). It's been great. We've been together for 9 years total (met as freshmen in college) and there's been very little conflict, and what conflict we have had has always been resolved pretty much the same day.

    I only get the hour long monologues if she's had a really bad day since she's still more of an introvert probably, and yeah she does nag a bit, but you wouldn't believe how happy it makes her if you just take care of or do some of the stuff she's nagging about. It means the world to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul
    I dated an ESFJ for a couple of months. She was a schoolteacher. Every day, she had this overwhelming urge to spend an hour or more talking about her day. Each day I got to look forward to the exact same hour long monologue for two to three months. She also had this uncontrollable urge to nag.

    I really can’t see how an INTJ and an ESFJ would work.

    Paul MBTI INTJ Socionics INTP
    Isn't INTP<->ESFJ conflicting relations, while INTJ<->ESFJ is duality? (Perhaps that one letter can make a big difference?)
    INTJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by P-chan
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul
    I dated an ESFJ for a couple of months. She was a schoolteacher. Every day, she had this overwhelming urge to spend an hour or more talking about her day. Each day I got to look forward to the exact same hour long monologue for two to three months. She also had this uncontrollable urge to nag.

    I really can’t see how an INTJ and an ESFJ would work.

    Paul MBTI INTJ Socionics INTP
    Isn't INTP<->ESFJ conflicting relations, while INTJ<->ESFJ is duality? (Perhaps that one letter can make a big difference?)
    I think so. There is the largest difference between j/p than with any other differing letter, IMO.

    Like.. changing only one letter, an INTP is least like an INTJ, and most like an ENTP

    INTP--

    ENTP (most similar)
    ISTP
    INFP
    INTJ (least similar)

    And it makes sense, as it would take the most effort to move from a P to a J.. It would literally equate to trying to turn an orange inside out, without damaging it.

    Using MBTI, to go to an ENTP, you'd just change order of dominance of your first two functions. Hard, but not impossible. To go to an ISTP, you'd have to change your _secondary_ function. Not easy, but harder than just rearranging, as you'd have to reform your area of creativity. To go to an INFP, you'd have to change your dominant function. This is similar to what would be required to go to an ISTP, but this is your area of dominance--seems it would be a bit harder to give up. And then to go to an INTJ, you'd have to do all of the above--you'd have to let go of your dominant function, your secondary function, your judging preference, and your function order. There would be the least similarity between your old self, and who you'd become. And this seems to be manifested in relations, and in the INTP chameleon effect--it's easier to fake extraversion, than to fake alertness and awareness of the present, than to fake being ethically-driven, than to fake being ordered and judgemental. And it also holds when you look at the length of time you can fake being each time--extraversion the longest, judging, by far, the shortest.

    What do you think?
    thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul
    I dated an ESFJ for a couple of months. She was a schoolteacher. Every day, she had this overwhelming urge to spend an hour or more talking about her day. Each day I got to look forward to the exact same hour long monologue for two to three months.
    Yes, that was my experience too but I didn't mind. The problem was that she seemed to expect me to find it very interesting, which I didn't, even though I listened to every word.

    I can't relate to the "nagging" bit.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Worst match ever. I'm an INTJ male and I've tried it. Terrible. ESFJ's are fun for about a month - then they get to be too much work and irritating. Please take my advice and don't bother.
    (i'm not saying they are irritating as people but irritating to intjs)
    INTJ (and damn good at it)

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    Duality works best in my opinion when:

    a) you're actually both in love (thus the INTj figures out later that the relation is a duality so he initially went with his feelings).

    b) one or both has already experienced duality and learnt from any mistakes previous if it didn't last.

    c) you have reached a certain level of maturity e.g. over 21 say, ready to have a long-term relationship.

    d) you have and/or accept eachother's common interests.

    e) you learn the art of being co-dependant on eachother e.g. you both can have your separate friends/lives though you always come back to eachother due to the duality phenomenon of magnetism.
    Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.

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    Seems to me,that one should also want to become a bit like it's dual. I guess that starting idealisation of your duals behaviour, life, emotsion and to become a bit like your dual is , can make it easier to understand it and atrrract one. Otherwise, you might end up fighting a lot. This is a case, where duals do the hard tasks for each other, and then fight still ahead. I haven't been in a relationship with one, but I get better along them, if I act like they are acting. One more interesting thing is that, yes, your dual understands you as well as you do your self, she still is a mistery to you and living with your dual is best, when it is typical men-woman relationship, where each one have typical roles. INTj female-ESFj male, relationship could be harder due to that.
    Man is a bit feminite and his wife is a bit masculine.
    Semiotical process

  12. #12
    Creepy-fry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul
    I dated an ESFJ for a couple of months. She was a schoolteacher. Every day, she had this overwhelming urge to spend an hour or more talking about her day. Each day I got to look forward to the exact same hour long monologue for two to three months. She also had this uncontrollable urge to nag.

    I really can’t see how an INTJ and an ESFJ would work.

    Paul MBTI INTJ Socionics INTP
    wow paul, good for you. you are my hero of the day. ENFJ is very talkative, I always think that i can't keep up a conversation with a girl because of that.

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    ""You are what you are because of the conscious and subconscious choices you have made." -- Barbara Hall"

    That's just a fancy way of saying:

    "You are a result of all you have thought"-Siddhartha Gautama
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    I don't understand why ENFj gets mentioned a lot in ESFj-related topics. I'm not sure if people are just mixing up their letters or what. It's regular enough to almost seem as if it's done on purpose
    I(N)Tj

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    I am an ESFJ married to an INTJ (guy). We are both fairly "textbook" in our type descriptions. The truth is that our relationship is as rewarding as it is challenging. The chemistry is AMAZING because we are both so drawn to the other's differences. We bring out the best, and at times, the worst, in each other for sure, but I love my husband beyond belief, and could not imagine being with someone else. Being an ESFJ, I sometimes do get my feelings hurt by my husband's direct and abrupt nature, but I know that he in not TRYING to be insensitive. We are getting better at letting the other just be themselves, which is what we were drawn to in the beginning anyway!! It is true that we are POLAR OPPOSITES in personality, but we have a remarkable amount in common too. We react and express things very differently, but we understand that in each other. The toughest challenge obviously is in communication, and getting my husband to understand that I simply can't think like him (INTJ). As an INTJ, he does have EXTREMLY high expectations, but he is getting better at realizing very very few people are quite like him. He may not be the fluffy and cutesy-wootsie type, but he makes up for that by being uncommonly strong, competent, dedicated, hardworking, and protective.

    Typical of ESFJ, I have elaborated quite a lot, but I think that the duality of ESFJ and INTJ CAN be a GREAT match. It's certainly not an EASY match, but it is very HOT (grrrr!!), satisfying and rewarding partnership

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    Quote Originally Posted by esfjgirl View Post
    I am an ESFJ married to an INTJ (guy). (...)
    Are you ESFj and INTj?

    This thread is rather old, but it sounds like half the people were talking MBTI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by esfjgirl View Post
    and at times, the worst
    Sounds perfect!
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    People new to Socionics, who come from an MBTI background, often pick up ideas like intertype relations without realizing that there's a difference between how MBTI classifies people and how Socionics classifies people. Consequently, capitalizing the last letter is often (but not always) a sign that the user has not yet become aware of this distinction. In my opinion, Aiss and VixenDogFox were not behaving unreasonably in trying to clear up this uncertainty.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    What do you think, are they? I think the first sentence can't have other meaning.

    What makes you conclude that she's talking MBTI? Capitalized last letters are irrelevant, it doesn't even matter when one is using one system only n discussions. What about "dual", is that a MBTI notion? I don't think so, she seems to knows what she's talking about.
    Actually it can, you even deny this point yourself in second paragraph.

    What did I conclude again? Escaped my notice again. These runaway conclusions will be the death of me.



    To answer your suggestions - it sometimes happens on MBTI forums that people google something like XXXx + XXXx and revive a five year old or so thread in their first post. The use of 'duality' in this context doesn't make it impossible, although perhaps less likely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by esfjgirl View Post
    I am an ESFJ married to an INTJ (guy). We are both fairly "textbook" in our type descriptions. The truth is that our relationship is as rewarding as it is challenging. The chemistry is AMAZING because we are both so drawn to the other's differences. We bring out the best, and at times, the worst, in each other for sure, but I love my husband beyond belief, and could not imagine being with someone else. Being an ESFJ, I sometimes do get my feelings hurt by my husband's direct and abrupt nature, but I know that he in not TRYING to be insensitive. We are getting better at letting the other just be themselves, which is what we were drawn to in the beginning anyway!! It is true that we are POLAR OPPOSITES in personality, but we have a remarkable amount in common too. We react and express things very differently, but we understand that in each other. The toughest challenge obviously is in communication, and getting my husband to understand that I simply can't think like him (INTJ). As an INTJ, he does have EXTREMLY high expectations, but he is getting better at realizing very very few people are quite like him. He may not be the fluffy and cutesy-wootsie type, but he makes up for that by being uncommonly strong, competent, dedicated, hardworking, and protective.

    Typical of ESFJ, I have elaborated quite a lot, but I think that the duality of ESFJ and INTJ CAN be a GREAT match. It's certainly not an EASY match, but it is very HOT (grrrr!!), satisfying and rewarding partnership
    wow that's just great. i'm happy for you!!

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    wow that's just great. i'm happy for you!!
    They're broken up by now.
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    They're broken up by now.
    In seven hours?

    Blaze happens to be quoting the post that necro'd this thread earlier today.



    LII-Ne

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    I find ESFjs I know in real life quite annoying and way too expressive, and they're always trying to get emotions out of others, especially wild and crazy, "neutral tinted positive" and rather meaningless talk, it's sick. They have that EJ paranoia. One turned my ISTj best friend into a trivial joke when they were dating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    I find ESFjs I know in real life quite annoying and way too expressive, and they're always trying to get emotions out of others, especially wild and crazy, "neutral tinted positive" and rather meaningless talk, it's sick. They have that EJ paranoia. One turned my ISTj best friend into a trivial joke when they were dating.
    Sooo... what you're saying is that ESFjs and INTps probably won't get along very well?
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Sooo... what you're saying is that ESFjs and INTps probably won't get along very well?
    Probably not. There is also the idea that conflictors may seem like duals when you first see them, which I haven't noticed at all. Duals usually seem like duals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Sooo... what you're saying is that ESFjs and INTps probably won't get along very well?
    No no no. What he's clearly saying is that his post in no way adds to the substance of this thread that resurrected from the lowest depths of Heck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    In seven hours?

    Blaze happens to be quoting the post that necro'd this thread earlier today.
    Whoops I confused the post's date with the rest of the 2005 thread.
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    I think the differences between duals is exaggerated in most cases. Yes we need complementary traits, but we also need similar traits. If there aren't enough similar traits... well...
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinocchio View Post
    Malia was ok, nothing to say, but Aiss behaved improperly IMO. Only fools pick on such unimportant details to accuse someone of incompetence. I agree with you that maybe she confused something, but let me tell you that I myself considered the difference irrelevant few years ago, although I knew the differences between the systems.
    esfjgirl didn't even theorized on that, she just described a relationship, it's very hard to say what she knows or not, having just one post doesn't mean she is necessarily dumb to jump on her like the wolf on a weak lamb. Mistyping is not something uncommon, and it's not usually related to this confusion, it's exaggerated to put a wrong conclusion on that, imo.

    ---

    @Aiss ^ + you took things too absolutely. Just ask and figure out what's she talking about, does she make a confusion or not, don't jump to conclusions so early please.
    Whereas bitter people pick on others for lack of better argument.

    Where do you see me making any conclusions in this thread? Or accusations for that matter? I asked whether she was using socionics. If you have a problem with it, it's your problem, not mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    Where do you see me making any conclusions in this thread? Or accusations for that matter? I asked whether she was using socionics. If you have a problem with it, it's your problem, not mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    This thread is rather old, but it sounds like half the people were talking MBTI.
    that doesn't look like a question to me (alphas tend to take observations seriously)
    Last edited by electric sheep; 04-23-2010 at 06:48 AM.
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by electric sheep View Post
    Oh my goodness! That is the most epic .gif I have ever seen!
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by electric sheep View Post
    that doesn't look like a question to me (alphas tend to take observations seriously)
    This observation is about thread in general, not about esfjgirl and her typings, as was the first question. I rather think Pinocchio meant the latter here:

    Mistyping is not something uncommon, and it's not usually related to this confusion, it's exaggerated to put a wrong conclusion on that, imo.
    Even if you assume it's a conclusion because it doesn't end with question mark, it doesn't make it any more about esfjgirl, and therefore her typing, or confusion, or implied exaggeration on my part. :sigh:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    In seven hours?

    Blaze happens to be quoting the post that necro'd this thread earlier today.
    necro'd? hahahaha

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Default Works with understanding

    My husband is INTJ and I'm ESFJ. We have a strong marriage but we had to learn communication. I don't nag at him because I know he doesn't respond well. I give him his space and take care of all of his needs. If I want to talk about his day he knows he doesn't have to actually listen unless I express that specific need. Sometimes I've just been alone all day and need someone to talk to. Responses aren't necessary. My husband says we are a great match because we are similar in the important areas and complement each other. It takes understanding to make this pairing work, and sacrifice for both parties. ESFJs who need to be in charge are a pain for INTJs. INTJs who refuse to meet an ESFJs need of approval hurt the ESFJ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ard4 View Post
    My husband is INTJ and I'm ESFJ. We have a strong marriage but we had to learn communication. I don't nag at him because I know he doesn't respond well. I give him his space and take care of all of his needs. If I want to talk about his day he knows he doesn't have to actually listen unless I express that specific need. Sometimes I've just been alone all day and need someone to talk to. Responses aren't necessary. My husband says we are a great match because we are similar in the important areas and complement each other. It takes understanding to make this pairing work, and sacrifice for both parties. ESFJs who need to be in charge are a pain for INTJs. INTJs who refuse to meet an ESFJs need of approval hurt the ESFJ.
    Yeah, I've often heard people say this about initial stage of their relations. Approval and understanding are big starting points. I think it's just easier to meet a dual who's parents are a dual to them, hence a dual to you. I think my boyfriend's mother is INFj I think I will cry if this happens. It's kinda important to me to feel completely engulfed in love.

    Um, my boyfriend and I are like two peas in a pod. It makes me wonder.

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    if you are identified correctly AND your "dual" is really your dual, then this is the best, breathtaking experience... It is not easy at first! because you are so different. but then... you live and breath in the same rhythm, you think the same thoughts... when you start talking - it goes for hours! and time flies. Among duals there is no competition, no counting who started what - information is tossed equally between them: one thought of something, the other took it only to give it back to the dual after processing it and making it refined... It's the best I've had... It's the best he's had... but we are not together... physically not...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fetornado View Post
    if you are identified correctly AND your "dual" is really your dual, then this is the best, breathtaking experience... It is not easy at first! because you are so different. but then... you live and breath in the same rhythm, you think the same thoughts... when you start talking - it goes for hours! and time flies. Among duals there is no competition, no counting who started what - information is tossed equally between them: one thought of something, the other took it only to give it back to the dual after processing it and making it refined... It's the best I've had... It's the best he's had... but we are not together... physically not...
    Is he traveling for work or something?

    I loved your description thank you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Is he traveling for work or something?

    I loved your description thank you
    he is my best friend and I trust him everything. Nothing physical - sex complicates everything. Why spoil something great? :-)

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fetornado View Post
    he is my best friend and I trust him everything. Nothing physical - sex complicates everything. Why spoil something great? :-)
    Oh. I judged first but I realize it's not fair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Oh. I judged first but I realize it's not fair.
    I am guilty of it too! assume things on the spot! he he he

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