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Thread: Type and stubbornness

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    Default Type and stubbornness

    Is there any correlation between socionic type and stubbornness, and if so, which type is the most stubborn?
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    People have accused me of being stubborn before now (even though they themselves are stubborn but don't realise it.. ironic twats). Apart from that.. I don't know really, although I've known ISFjs to be pretty stubborn about the way they think (Ne-PoLR probably).
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    Lytov relates stubbornness to , and there is probably some truth in that. Logical types are more stubborn than ethical types, and one or more of the types INTp, ISTp, ENTj, and ESTj might be the most stubborn of all.

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    In some sense it's Se vs Si thing. Alphas and deltas are often too quick to agree with others just to avoid upsetting others. They say, "Fine, lets have it your way. *BITTER SMILE*" and try not to hold a grudge.

    In another sense it's j vs p. Percievers say "Well, ok, we can try that. It doesn't change much." and they really don't care as much as judging types because their plans are more flexible.

    In yet another sense it could be yielding vs obstinacy Reinin dichotomy, but this could actually depend on Se, I'm not sure.
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    I'm only reasonably stubborn. A lot of people are unreasonably stubborn, and then it's just annoying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Lytov relates stubbornness to , and there is probably some truth in that. Logical types are more stubborn than ethical types, and one or more of the types INTp, ISTp, ENTj, and ESTj might be the most stubborn of all.
    You are probably referring to the typical test question: "do you argue until the end or do you give up to keep relations?", to which I always give the "Thinking-answer" and wonder why I would ever give the opposite answer. I could argue that Fe types are the most stubborn types, because they feel too driven to stop arguing.

    In my experience, betas are the most stubborn people. It could have something to do with being emotionally driven ( ) and then treating the argument/disagreement as a way to either win or lose ( ). I have heard my INFp sister say "oh, if I agree with him now, he'll think he won! I can't give up now!".
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    i'm pretty damned stubborn.
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    I find types stubborn if you try to move in on any territory. Try telling a some F ego type how they're feeling or how they're trying to make you feel, they'll deny it and then pull a array of tricks to convince you your wrong even though you end up being right.

    So I'm guessing people are just stubborn with their ego.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Lytov relates stubbornness to , and there is probably some truth in that. Logical types are more stubborn than ethical types, and one or more of the types INTp, ISTp, ENTj, and ESTj might be the most stubborn of all.
    You are probably referring to the typical test question: "do you argue until the end or do you give up to keep relations?", to which I always give the "Thinking-answer" and wonder why I would ever give the opposite answer. I could argue that Fe types are the most stubborn types, because they feel too driven to stop arguing.
    No, I am referring to Lytov's chart over manifestations of Informational Exchange Functions, which can be found here in the menu to the right: http://www.socioniko.net/en/1.1.types/index.html

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    I've been accused of being stubborn on more than one occasion. I'm only stubborn about certain things though.

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    I have been accused of being stubborn on several occasions. And the accusations were probably correct every time, because I am stubborn -- though not so much in practical matters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    In my experience, betas are the most stubborn people. It could have something to do with being emotionally driven ( ) and then treating the argument/disagreement as a way to either win or lose ( ). I have heard my INFp sister say "oh, if I agree with him now, he'll think he won! I can't give up now!".
    I can relate to that. I had a talk with my wife about this one day and she said that my pattern seem to be to usually argue against the other person pretty heatedly (is that same thing as emotionally?) while listening to them with one ear at the same time. Then after the argument has passed I go through the information I have gathered and integrate it into my previous understanding where it seems relevant. But I rarely seem to do the "integration" thing during the argument only afterwards. During the argument I mostly rely on what I have already integrated in my understanding in the past and become a bit fanatic about it. Perhaps that is focus on Fe during the argument and on Te (or Ti) after the argument. I don't know. Anyways it causes me to sometimes debate heatedly in favor of something but later on change my ridig stance after evaluating the new information. Then I can debate as heatedly in favor of my new stance. It is as if the increase of my knowledge happens in "jumps" not as a dynamic process. I gather information in a "bag" then sit down and go through it all and understand it as a whole. So for an outsider I sometimes don't make any progress and sometimes make a big leap of progress.

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    I nominate my own type.

    I have never thought of myself as stubborn, until people started pointing it out to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    I have been accused of being stubborn on several occasions. And the accusations were probably correct every time, because I am stubborn -- though not so much in practical matters.
    It's usually practical matters that I am stubborn in. Things that have to do with Te and Ni as it relates to Te. (And sometimes Fi, if I'm upset about something and don't know it.) That's why my boss told my sister that he sometimes wonders who the boss actually is. And why my sister said, "She has that affect on people".

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    I'm stubborn but I know some reeeeeeally stubborn ISFps also.
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    I used to be stubborn. But I think it went away.

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    ENTp
    ENFj
    ISFj



    In my experience...


    ENTp is probably the most frustrating. Unreasonable stubbornness as Rocky put it.
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    It depends...

    I'm not stubborn generally. I'm quick to agree with other people's suggestions of activity. However...

    when I'm stubborn, I do. You won't change my mind, and you'll have to do what I say, otherwise some big mess is going to happen. This only happens when I really really am sure that I'm right, so it's only once in a while; people that have known me recognize that...yes, it's better to agree in those situations.
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    I can't answer this question without first clarifying what is meant with "stubborn". The word implies a degree of unreasonableness or even irrationality (not necessarily the socionics meaning of the word). It suggests a dislike for changing one's views or decisions, merely for the sake of not changing them. And I think it makes no sense in socionics as a characteristic that can be attributed to any type as such.
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    I'm stubborn as long as I'm right.

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    I have to clarify my previous statement. I don't generally consider myself that stubborn. Occasionally I do become really stubborn though. It is still more situational or sometimes related to something which I consider important. On usual everyday matters I'm pretty flexible. More flexible than the average person I think.

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