ENTps are totally screwed when it comes to relationships

[Angel von Himmel]

Well, maybe not all ENTps ... could be just me ... I have pretty much come to the conclusion that I really should have much to do with most people, especially most women. And I am really tired of having to play games and push buttons in order to keep people around. When something initially goes right, things just end up going horribly horribly wrong in the end anyways ... what happened in Joy's "infatuation" thread in anything else really did not help my perception of people, either.

I suppose I should just accept my fate and the fact that I just do not have the relationship skills most mature people have and stop worrying, but I know this is going to be a lifelong problem. I can barely find ways to support myself, since I despise being around most people so much. Rarely I find someone I really really like, but it happens sometimes.

Hopefully I can get into some therapy soon, meanwhile I am through ranting about it.

[discojoe]

Just find an ISFp and watch as all your annoying personality traits are seen as "cute" and "deep."

[Joy]

Just find an ISFp and watch as all your annoying personality traits are seen as "cute" and "deep."

People of all types can be screwed up when it comes to relationships, some more so than others. It all comes down to having a healthy sense of self-worth. Without that even the relationship with the most potential will go down in flames. A relationship can only be as healthy as the least healthy person in it.

[Creepy-rocko]

Just find an ISFp and watch as all your annoying personality traits are seen as "cute" and "deep."

... it doesn't work out that way...

[diamond]

Well, maybe not all ENTps ... could be just me ... I have pretty much come to the conclusion that I really should have much to do with most people, especially most women. And I am really tired of having to play games and push buttons in order to keep people around. When something initially goes right, things just end up going horribly horribly wrong in the end anyways ... what happened in Joy's "infatuation" thread in anything else really did not help my perception of people, either.

I suppose I should just accept my fate and the fact that I just do not have the relationship skills most mature people have and stop worrying, but I know this is going to be a lifelong problem. I can barely find ways to support myself, since I despise being around most people so much. Rarely I find someone I really really like, but it happens sometimes.

Hopefully I can get into some therapy soon, meanwhile I am through ranting about it.

Now you're just beating yourself up. That's no good. Resist the urge to do that. It only makes you feel miserable and therefore less capable of identifying and making changes. Try to be like a duck.

Nobody hates you BTW. People are a lot tougher than that!

[XcaliburGirl]

Reuben, I want you to really think about what I'm going to say. I had the same problem. I had no friends and hard as I tried, couldn't get people to like me. I blamed it on them, I blamed it on poor social and relationship skills, but in reality it goes deeper.
This is sort of a plan... maybe that's not the best form for it, but it makes it easier for me to explain. I wasn't really aware of it when I was going through it, I just stumbled around until things started falling into place.
Don't be insulted by anything I say here, because it's me I'm talking about. However, I truly believe that it applies to everyone.

So here it goes...

1. STOP trying to get people to like you. I got sick of pushing buttons and playing games too. The truth is, if you have to manipulate people to like you, it's not real. Period. Either they like whatever it is you're pretending, or they're just using or pitying you. So just STOP. Be drastic if you have to.
More out of frustration than anything else, I cut off activities where I felt compelled to do that. I stopped going to church functions, I quit German lessons... hell, I even quit my job. (though there were other reasons) May not be necessary for you, but it was for me.
For emphasis: STOP TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO LIKE YOU, IT DOESN'T WORK.

2. Look at yourself, objectively and w/out excuses, until you realize what a pathetic, grasping, selfish creature you truly are. (Once again, don't get insulted.) One day I woke up, looked in the mirror, and saw Gollum (from Lord of the Rings). Pathetic, Grasping, Selfish. And I was a good Christian girl who tried to do the right thing... But in reality, all I really cared about was myself. I came to this conclusion: If the sole purpose of my life was to secure my own comfort, I literally had no reason to get out of bed in the morning.
You've got to look deep inside and realize that you are SELF-CENTERED. You've got to utterly despise yourself for it. And you've got to want to change.

*Warning!: if you haven't honestly succeeded in doing the first two steps, the following will NOT work because you will do it for the WRONG REASONS.*

3. Actively make a plan to defeat that pathetic, grasping, selfish creature. Volunteer for something. The only requirement is that it's got to help people and you have to be actually interacting with the people you're helping. This is the first time interacting w/ people comes in and you have to be very careful not to fall into the old habit of trying to get them to like you. You're probably not going to see them again, it doesn't matter whether they like you or not. But it DOES matter whether you liked THEM, even if they seem unlikable, they're human beings, they're worth something. The purpose of this is to do something for someone else w/out expecting anything back.
This includes the other volunteers that you work with. DO NOT actively try to make them like you. Try to like them. Keep reminding yourself that THEY are being unselfish, helping people... YOU don't deserve any praise or reward, because you are doing it for a selfish reason: Namely, to become a better person.

If you do all this sincerely, believe me, something really cool happens: you start to really truly like yourself. You feel relief because you're getting rid of the self-centered part of you. And people actually start to like you for who you really are... and you don't have to do anything to cause this!

Well, that's XcaliburGirl's 3-Step Guide to Happiness. Sounds cheesy, but I'm serious.

Oh, and since you say you're a Christian, I suggest you read something by Hannah Hurnard.

[detail]

It's pretty simple, there are two groups:




You ------------------------------------- Them




Now which one can you change? I'll give you a hint: Them is made of crystal and You is made of play doh.

[Angel von Himmel]

Just find an ISFp and watch as all your annoying personality traits are seen as "cute" and "deep."

It does not work that way necessarily, dual partners are more or so intrigued by each others strengths and that is what interest them.

Plus, my mother is my dual ... I would rather find an ESFj or INTj ... I have tried identical, and am not really sure if I am impressed with it other than the coolness of having someone of the opposite sex that does almost everything the same exact way that you do. It just starts to feel more like a cute little party trick after a while, though.

[Ms. Kensington]

if your mother makes you feel comfortable and you have been in a family relationship with her for your 20+ years, you know that successful relationships of at least one kind are possible that contain you!

Don't give up, or give up hope. But I agree with Alicia that its a heck of a lot easier to be happy if you're not thinking about yourself and what you perceive to be your problems a majority of the time.

I always use this metaphor from where it came I don't know:

We're like an eye. When the eye is diseased, from a cataract, it can only see the disease (the cataract). When you're healthy, you don't see yourself, but only clearly out into the world.

[Angel von Himmel]

Well, I will try some of what has been suggested ... maybe being a little less selfish would do me some good.

An yeah, I think the fact that my mother is an ISFp would make it easy for me to form a relationship with a dual. Most people are disgusted by their duals, because they had limited contact with them while growing up. Fortunatelly, that is not my case.

[Creepy-Fry]

Well, I will try some of what has been suggested ... maybe being a little less selfish would do me some good.

An yeah, I think the fact that my mother is an ISFp would make it easy for me to form a relationship with a dual. Most people are disgusted by their duals, because they had limited contact with them while growing up. Fortunatelly, that is not my case.

i want to suggest something:
have you try to find your type's strength and weakness? and Why not try to improve yourself?

thats what i am doing. Being a intj, i have very small amount of friends, and i have never had a girlfriend. It frustrates me from time to time. But you know what hope gives me the power to discover my weakness, and i am happy that i can change my personality. YOu are a E right, that means you at least have touched a female flesh b4, see you are better off with your personality then most intj....

[Angel von Himmel]

Well, I will try some of what has been suggested ... maybe being a little less selfish would do me some good.

An yeah, I think the fact that my mother is an ISFp would make it easy for me to form a relationship with a dual. Most people are disgusted by their duals, because they had limited contact with them while growing up. Fortunatelly, that is not my case.

i want to suggest something:
have you try to find your type's strength and weakness? and Why not try to improve yourself?

thats what i am doing. Being a intj, i have very small amount of friends, and i have never had a girlfriend. It frustrates me from time to time. But you know what hope gives me the power to discover my weakness, and i am happy that i can change my personality. YOu are a E right, that means you at least have touched a female flesh b4, see you are better off with your personality then most intj....

Well, I can not really express without feeling stressed and just makes me feel inferior and undisciplined ... I tend to avoind using those functions unless I have to ...

[diamond]

Well, I will try some of what has been suggested ... maybe being a little less selfish would do me some good.

An yeah, I think the fact that my mother is an ISFp would make it easy for me to form a relationship with a dual. Most people are disgusted by their duals, because they had limited contact with them while growing up. Fortunatelly, that is not my case.

Regarding strong feelings/your issues with women who don't treat you right.

Remember that sometimes entp's pick terrible people to have relationships with because we are not great judges of how others feel about us. I've not done this with intimate relations as much as with friends, myself. Then we get pissed when they hurt us. Shame on them for hurting us; shame on us for picking them. Double shame on us when we take it out on the people that really do care. Huh.

I agree with what others are saying about thinking about yourself less, others more, and listening more. And in the process, realize that the feelings you have are real . . . but how to express them? Where are they coming from and in what intensity? Do they even make sense? To whom? When? In what situation? And above all, why? Slow way down with the feelings expression so you can get a handle on it.

This is the timing piece that entp's generally suck at when it comes to relationships (and BTW, why estp's are not as disabled by their polr as we are - they have great timing, even if they are self centered ).

I guess the other main thing I want to support you on is the idea that you might have to take it on the chin for awhile. So take it on the chin but applaud yourself for doing so. Don't start to feel victimized by yourself. Like I've said before, so what if people don't like you? Do you like yourself? If the answer is no, find something to like about yourself that isn't a lie every day.

Sorry if this is too long. I'm feelin it for a fellow entp! :wink:

[Megan]

deleted

[Angel von Himmel]

I like being a part of alpha quandra, so understanding and uncondemning ...

[Kim]

I like being a part of alpha quandra, so understanding and uncondemning ...

Yes, please do reflect on how good it feels. And I mean this with the best intentions and without hostility.

[diamond]

I see your point Kim. Although it's important to surround yourself with support, the ultimate goal is to be able to get along with everyone . . . even your conflict and supervisor and contrary!

[discojoe]

I like being a part of alpha quandra, so understanding and uncondemning ...

Heh, you're fine. Best advice is to not think of women for a long time. Just put them out of your mind. Make yourself not care about having a relationship. ENTps seem to constantly try and bullshit themselves. If you want a genuine relationship, you'll have to wait until it finds YOU.

Take a walk. Relax. Notice the smell of the air, the detail in the leaves. Let the complexity of the world in, and realize there is more to life than taking some bimbo out to dinner in the hopes of getting her pants off.

[Angel von Himmel]

I like being a part of alpha quandra, so understanding and uncondemning ...

Yes, please do reflect on how good it feels. And I mean this with the best intentions and without hostility.

Yeah, but I still do not think other Quandra members understand where I am coming from more than other Alpha members. No pointing the fingers when I am emotionally hurt over something a girl did to me, something I appreciate alot, actually.

[Guru]

I think a problem with us ENTPs are some of the same that an enneagrammic 4 experiences when it comes to relationships.

We usually tires of our most dear really quick, and worries about what we're missing out on. At least i see all girls as too good for me, until i actually starts to date them, then i find them boring and monotone.

This makes it hard to find a girlfriend, and even harder keeping one...

[Joy]

I don't think that's entirely an ENTp thing, I think it's a common fear of intimacy that most of not all types can experience.

[Kirana]

well, i guess everything that can be said has been said. so efficient of everyone... :wink:

[mimisor]

Well, I will try some of what has been suggested ... maybe being a little less selfish would do me some good.

An yeah, I think the fact that my mother is an ISFp would make it easy for me to form a relationship with a dual. Most people are disgusted by their duals, because they had limited contact with them while growing up. Fortunatelly, that is not my case.

Yes, Reuben, it is so cool to have an ISFp mom!!! I am INTj and my mom is ISFp, so we have an Activity relation. I like it cause she lets me rant and shout at her when I'm frustrated about whatever... poor mom, many things she had to endure from me. I guess that's their hidden agenda
-->to understand, that's why they don't get upset about this kind of behaviour

[Creepy-]

I like being a part of alpha quandra, so understanding and uncondemning ...

you say quandra way too much. what the hell is a quandra?

[Rocky]

It's just poor Te.

[implied]

[olduser]

you gotta believe

[Creepy-ENTp M]

Me too on the too good for me and then.... comment you made. I have a touch of the same but after a lot of "work" and dating some types I usually don't, like an INTJ. I'm begining to realize that it's not all me with the boredom thing. A lot of mates want predictability as if that were somehow an indication of being responsible or trustworthy. I like change, a lot, so I'm always changing something, even if it's just a little thing about me. You need to be with someone who is going to give you space to grow, pursue new things, support you in your semi-risky pursuits, and go along for the ride once in awhile. Personal space and support, then it's all good.

[Joy]

I don't believe that anyone is "too good" for anyone else!!! I feel very strongly about this. I always assume that I can have anyone I want, and if I'm wrong, eh well, at least I didn't pick the wrong person because I didn't think I could get anyone "better".

The bottom line is that most people get into bad relationships, stay in bad relationships, and turn relationships into bad relationships because they do not believe they deserve any better. It's the same as with every other aspect of life... self worth is the key. We sabotage our successes when we feel we don't deserve them.

[Artemis]

That's all true, Joy. I have felt 'less' than some people I have had realtionships with and I have felt 'better' than some. The fault is with me though and not them. And those relationships didn't last.

My father always said to marry someone of your own social standing, education, and relative background. I find this works best in most caes.

[Joy]

I am one who disregards all things that society deems important... I don't give a crap external circumstances... what I need in a partner is all internal to that person.

[FDG]

My father always said to marry someone of your own social standing, education, and relative background. I find this works best in most caes.

Yeah, just like smoking works best for causing lung cancer