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Thread: Correct uses of each function

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    Default Correct uses of each function

    Each function either perceives information or processes it. In a brainstorming session, can the members of this forum identify the proper uses and possibly even the stages of development of each function?

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    No. Enlighten me, but give me the reader's digest version.

    Entp
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    alright, I'll start:

    As Transigent put it

    and both examine outside structure, systems, etc.

    and both examine internal (self) value of something

    and are processes and and are present judgements of something.

    This is meant to give out hints

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    I have sort of been holding out on all of you the past few months, but I guess it's silly to do that.

    Socionics is informationally based.

    All deal with information exclusively available to the self. That is, information that is localized in the self and is only known consciously or subconsciously to the self.

    All deal with the expression of visible information expressed by the person or present in the environment.

    We all use every function, every function is present in all of us, there is no doubt about that and any other way of seeing, from what I know, is a grotesque misinterpretation.

    For example, an INTj using so that anyone is aware of it is always you can't see unless it is IN you, and that is subjective thinking. subjective thinking is only available to the individual.

    When it becomes extraverted it is objective, and is free for the taking- readily available for "consumption"

    If you want to look at it in terms of the brain you have to see each function like a little "piece" of the brain. Pretend we understand the brain and know all of the rules of it. I have said in one of my earlier posts that the conscious ring uses the vital ring for expression- that pretty much makes sense. Basically, each "function" is a part of the brain that does one specific task. a "mechanism of consciousness", so to speak. stores known potentials, and therefore seeing the world through these eyes will mean seeing the world as a continuous stream. gives off these potentials. each function relies on the other,and although they look different they have alot in common. they depend upon one another. thats why the opposite on the I/E for the program is called "personal knowledge"

    But a good way to think of it is to think of it like a kitchen. Information is energy, and in this analogy energy will be food. It is held in the fridge in cooked form. taken out, mixed together and recooked. then it is put back in the fridge and the process continues. Each function is like a device in the kitchen used for cooking food.

    But basically, information is energy, and each function seems to deal with a different state of it.

    But to really get to the point, when you see anything it is extraverted/black. when anyone says anything it is also black. anything you know was at one point black, and anything that you say is going to have to be black. But while it is in you, it is always white. Introverts are quieter, they spend more time processing the internals "conserving energy" so when they do extravert someone might say, for example, "he is using " but no, they are using but it is just more refined, more polished. the conservation of energy produced a more complete product.

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    Why don't you post here more often? I enjoy reading what you have to write... and you actually stay on socionics topics which we are so very in need of around here.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    "For example, an INTj using Introverted Thinking so that anyone is aware of it is always Extraverted Thinking you can't see Introverted Thinking unless it is IN you, and that is subjective thinking. subjective thinking is only available to the individual. "

    I thought the creative block was the one used for expression. In other words, wouldn't Ti convert to Ne in a conversation?
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    ... but you show your thoughts to the outworld using Te after you have formulated your opinon on the subject using Ti.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    ... but you show your thoughts to the outworld using Te after you have formulated your opinon on the subject using Ti.
    Really? I thought he spoke or wrote in order to convey his thoughts.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    "... but you show your thoughts to the outworld using Te after you have formulated your opinon on the subject using Ti."

    Doesn't the creative block express the information of the base block? And if one only expresses the extraverted form of the base function in speach, then why is it thatan ENTj's ideas differ so sharply at times from an INTj's? How can one express something identical if they're "different"?

    Also, does not speech contain subjective properties within them? For instinance, when one conveys one's thoughts using lyrics of some sort, does it not possess a subjective quality?
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    Also, does not speech contain subjective properties within them? For instinance, when one conveys one's thoughts using lyrics of some sort, does it not possess a subjective quality?
    Yes it does (look at sig below...), but when you try and apply it to the outter world, it is expressed through the extraverted function.

    And the creative funciton takes the information which you have processed with your base, and can manipulate/create a new idea from it...
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    "Yes it does (look at sig below...), but when you try and apply it to the outter world, it is expressed through the extraverted function. "

    What does that mean?

    "And the creative funciton takes the information which you have processed with your base, and can manipulate/create a new idea from it..."

    It's also what you use to express your ideas.

    "Spontaneous Realisation - when you have an idea, it finds its form of expression here. "

    http://www.socionics.com/advan/lookpast.htm

    I hate appeals to authority....
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    "Yes it does (look at sig below...), but when you try and apply it to the outter world, it is expressed through the extraverted function. "

    What does that mean?
    It means that your thoughts are still subjective, but when you apply it to the outter world you have to do it with the extraverted function.

    Si, for example. Si sees things in terms of the subjective... it can create it's own rich, inner world of from the senses around it. But actually interacting with the world around you is Se... Se also has to do with kinetic energy. Physically moveming your body, etc.. has to do with the Se function, so although you take in things first through the subject Si, you can also let your energy out with Se; pressure. That is why sometimes SxI types can seem agressive or pushy even though they are not most of the time. MOST of the time, they are taking things in with their Si, but they eventually have to let it out with kinetic energy (Se).
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    "It means that your thoughts are still subjective, but when you apply it to the outter world you have to do it with the extraverted function.

    Si, for example. Si sees things in terms of the subjective... it can create it's own rich, inner world of from the senses around it. But actually interacting with the world around you is Se... Se also has to do with kinetic energy. Physically moveming your body, etc.. has to do with the Se function, so although you take in things first through the subject Si, you can also let your energy out with Se; pressure. That is why sometimes SxI types can seem agressive or pushy even though they are not most of the time. MOST of the time, they are taking things in with their Si, but they eventually have to let it out with kitetic energy (Se)."

    That side-stepped the issue of expression; how does one express Si through Se? And what would the difference be from a person expressing Se as a conversion of Si and someone whom is directly relating their Se notions to others?
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    That side-stepped the issue of expression; how does one express Si through Se? And what would the difference be from a person expressing Se as a conversion of Si and someone whom is directly relating their Se notions to others?
    ... that second one's more of a complicated question...

    As for the first one... maybe we are just mincing words here? Are you having trouble with the word "expression"? True, people do express themselves with the creative function... but your 7th function (for an Introvert) is what lets you interact with the outside world after you have developed the inner understanding. Si dominant people aren't ALWAYS observers; they participate and interact eventually... the Se sort of "comes out" unconciously after you have used your Si.

    Think of someone like Cedric (who wrote the lyrics in my sig). If you see a video of him performing, you can see him dancing and bouncing around the stage, tossing the mic around, jumping off the stage, etc... but he's Si dominant, not Se. He views the world though those intoxicating senses, mending it into sort of a fantasy world based off of reality. After you get an understanding of the world around you with Si you interact with it using Se, expending energy... am I making any sense here?
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    "Whereas, the extraverted sensation-type is determined by the intensity of the objective influence, the introverted type is orientated by the intensity of the subjective sensation-constituent released by the objective stimulus."

    ~ Carl Jung

    ... that's more what I was trying to get at...
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    With Se that is anything available to the senses. Se is beauty, smell, touch, taste. It is what is "there" what is existing, what is being experienced or can be experienced. It is also force and so forth. It is Si when you are aware of it or when you "reflect" on it. It is made conscious as Si for an introvert. An extraverted sensor is actively expressing it, that is, they are tasting, touching. They express beauty physically.

    You can say beauty is a subjective thing, but then you'd be being objective, cause it's being extraverted. weird stuff. looking at ideas as energy- vibrating molecules being released into the air. Socionics is really awesomely powerful stuff.

    This gives more credence to VI in some ways. The Freudian "body-Ego"

    is too busy ing to be self conscious of which unconsciously serves as personal knowledge but which the ego doesn't focus on. So when a type thinks about anything through inner reflection they might be able to be self aware, but it would lack insight and be more oriented toward the practical, regardless. seems this way.

    You can sort of see it as though the ID functions are ignored by the EGO, that's why contrarys make such terrible teachers. sorta.

    But about the creative function. Why does Ij program require Ep auxiliary? This is because for an "idea" to be realized requires a balance between the inner and outer, as well as the judgement and perception. The second strongest function by default has one of two options.

    For ISTj:
    =dominant =repressed

    so of the remaining options:
    is inhibited
    is both inhibited AND repressed

    so we have remaining.

    Now the person is already an introvert, so their inner world is already being occupied. to solve problems they must express this energy into the outer world. so that rules out , they are repressed we can be sure. So we have or to choose from. The most developed wins, so represses and inhibits AND represses

    that might not be the best way to word it, but basically we tend to do what's most natural to us. If we have to solve a problem we try to "integrate" our consciousness by uniting J and P and E and I. Consciousness requires all of the functions, that's what consciousness is, the sum of sensory input. we all naturally are only capable of seeing a fragment of the information. The dual provides a more consolidated integration of information. The addition of another mirror and their dual make up for the lag in the second function of the first dual pair.

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    Whew. I'm confused. How does this all work in terms of interact w/ other types?

    Take Conflicting for example. If my Ti expresses itself through Te... how does that affect an ESFp's PoLR? Am I missing something... or maybe looking at it too simplistically?
    TiNe, LII, INTj, etc.
    "I feel like I should be making a sarcastic comment right now, but you're just so cute!" - Shego, Kim Possible

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    I'll elaborate on it in this future but for now just stick with the simplest way of seeing it because that doesn't change.

    If you are interacting with a type that shares the same function in your...

    EGO, it =Understanding
    Super-Ego= inbibition
    Super-Id=Support
    ID=Correction

    of course there can be types with mixtures of your Ego+Super-ego or Id+Super-Id as well, such as lookalike, comparative, semi-dual, illusionary etc...

    Strictly from an informational sense an Introvert is quieter, they use extraversion creatively but not as their standard lifestyle. everything they do leaves traces behind though, because our behavior reflects what is going on inside. and introvert still has extraverted behavior it is just that they aren't conscious of it. An extravert still has introverted behavior, they just arent conscious of it. Corrective partners(dual strong correcting weak, contrary strong correcting strong) draw their attention to this behavior, but not to the conscious ego of the other partner. I/E is sort of like a rhythm in some ways, like J/P. But this stuff is different, it's difficult to explain without leaving more questions. Alot of information to handle.

    I think there is also a natural link with the idea that a perceiver has a strong charge of what I'll call "P" so they manipulate the "J" space, naturally causing a change in their environment, which used to be called creativity, but the reality is that it is more of an information interaction.

    imagine a wavy line on a grid. the contents of each intersection on the grid get moved around, re-organized.

    just keep in mind that when you say what's on your mind it is extraverted, what is on your mind is introverted. it can't be any other way.

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    just keep in mind that when you say what's on your mind it is extraverted, what is on your mind is introverted. it can't be any other way.
    That makes sense for the rational functions, but what about the irrational ones? They don't speak, they act.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waddlesworth
    I'll elaborate on it in this future but for now just stick with the simplest way of seeing it because that doesn't change.

    If you are interacting with a type that shares the same function in your...

    EGO, it =Understanding
    Super-Ego= inbibition
    Super-Id=Support
    ID=Correction
    [...]
    Okay, I read up on this thread (which I've been periodically looking at. Now I think I'm finally at the point where I can at least follow it): oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=517

    So basically, inhibition(w/ conflicts) occurs because their strong doesn't allow my weak to do what it wants, namely get an "equal and opposite reaction" from ? So it's stuck pushing against nothing and therefore going nowhere? But this is very abstract... where's that "located" if it's internal? This kind of messes up my current understanding. If information can only get passed along in an extraverted form, I'm still having trouble understanding how the functions "meet" during an interaction with another person or even with some other source of information. If every thing(whether physical or metaphysical) is "extraverted", i.e. an object (hence objective), how can an extraverted funtion be accepting? In other words, it can't really take anything in, can it?

    Sorry. I'm having trouble expressing myself because my understanding is rather vague still. Am I way off here? And, sorry that this is kind of off your general flow of thought, but I need to get the basic concepts right before I can understand the rest.
    Got any suggestions where I can read stuff to get in deeper?
    TiNe, LII, INTj, etc.
    "I feel like I should be making a sarcastic comment right now, but you're just so cute!" - Shego, Kim Possible

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    Yeah, ignore those older posts, too intuitive. unless you really feel you're getting something out of it, of course. I wouldn't say it's wrong, but it isn't structural enough for my taste anymore.) That also deals more with intertype relations and stuff. Also, some of that might be misleading. I guess I should refine my words a bit more just so it doesn't sound completely incoherent, because it isn't. Maybe at some point this might seem the same way, but I think it's a bit clearer. Remember, I'm trying to figure this stuff out as much as anyone else. I'm not an authority.

    So I'll lay it out as it appears to be:

    -Conscious does not mean "only one being used" to have one you must have the other.

    Try and think of information as separate from functions. The functions use information in different ways, but information is basically just energy. There is internal energy, and there is external energy. Anything introverted is subjective, anything extroverted is objective.

    Basically, Socionics lets us break everything down to its most basic state, that is energy. Then this energy is processed by our senses and mind in different ways. You can pigeonhole the information into different categories- the basic units of intelligence, the functions.

    Now as for functions fitting like puzzle pieces/baby blocks- well, that is true. for example: hearing and seeing are two different things, you can't unite them in terms of what they are, but the information they take in can be integrated and form an idea. but if you put two people together, one with really good hearing but bad vision, the other just the opposite, they will make up for one another. Then it gets more complicated with I/E, i won't go there.

    @rocky
    well there is no real way to say one function is exclusively there all the time. everything we do involves every function, but there is a stronger presence of some information in different people. So everything is using a rational function all of the time, but also every function is using perceiving functions as well. that's what makes this stuff so weird- the resonation is hard to imagine. that's why functions work like puzzle pieces, it makes it easier to distinguish.

    But if I describe a sunset, what functions am I using? The truth is I am using all of them, but depending upon who I am the description will be different. The listener may experience different side effects from listening to me talk about the sunset as well. An intuitive speaker may overwhelm a sensory type, or be too unrefined for a judging type. Its really all how you look at it.

    Thats why functions are really more about strength and weakness. You have a strongest, and then you have a weakest. Since we are naturally trying to find balance between the external and internal and the j and p the functions will develop in Ep-Ij, Ij-Ep bonds or Ip-Ej, Ej-Ip bonds. but that doesn't mean the other functions aren't working or anything- they receive stimulation when enough information is present, and they are working all of the time. If J is stronger, there must be P there as a second function to generate a perception out of the judgement.

    So basically, nomatter what I do I am always using every function. You can gain a or impression out of what someone says, but that is subjective. What you see now, this text, is extraverted... but only because your introverted functions can recognize and give it all meaning. It is existing in space and time, and consists of a state of material energy. Its all just energy though, existing in space-time. Wild, but really quite elementary.

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    Does anyone else think that the 7th function is very important?

    It seems like a person can find strength and "pupose" through their 7th funtion... like they are almost hanicapped if they don't find a way to express it.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    This is all really simple if you look at it from a certain perspective.

    I'll add more latter on

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    Not exactly what I had in mind; however what WW has posted here is quite valuable. Since I cannot look into and translate Russian sites, I am left with thinking about all of this with just what I am aware of. That means that I try to fit pieces of the “puzzle” with my knowledge outside this subject.

    But what I was getting at here was that there is (I think) a correct way to use each aspect of thought, to me it makes sense because of the kind of material that I expose myself to. However, I was not totally sure of the conclusion I reached, so I wanted this to be a brainstorming session.

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