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Thread: Paul Newman

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    Default Paul Newman

    One of the greatest actors who ever lived. The music is shit though.

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvsauqv670c[/youtube]
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    ISFj, and his wife Joanne Woodward is ENTj. I already mentioned them in the Gamma forum.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    No way man. I would not have imagined that at all.

    He's a remarkably good actor if he's an ESI.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    He's a remarkably good actor if he's an ESI.
    Hmmm -- or perhaps you have the wrong image of ESIs?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
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    No, what I mean is that if you take his bests - The Hustler, Cool Hand Luke, Butch Cassidy And The Sundance Kid - he doesn't have the air of an ESI. As Luke, he's more like an SLI, in The Hustler, an SLE, and as Butch Cassidy, probably an SLI again.

    Also, do you think an ESI, when asked why he's stuck with his wife for so long, would say something like "why go out for hamburgers when you can have steak at home?" Isn't that the kind of thing an NT would say?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    No, what I mean is that if you take his bests - The Hustler, Cool Hand Luke, Butch Cassidy And The Sundance Kid - he doesn't have the air of an ESI. As Luke, he's more like an SLI, in The Hustler, an SLE, and as Butch Cassidy, probably an SLI again.
    What do you call "the air of a ESI" then?

    And I don't think Butch Cassidy was best typed as SLI. I'd guess SEE. By the way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Also, do you think an ESI, when asked why he's stuck with his wife for so long, would say something like "why go out for hamburgers when you can have steak at home?" Isn't that the kind of thing an NT would say?
    I suggest you don't base typings on this kind of quotes, which are obviously not even meant seriously.

    Question -- why did you use the term "stuck with his wife"?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    I have no idea why you would hear a quote about why someone should remain faithful in marriage and say you can't imagine an ISFj saying it, when that is a huge stereotype of them even. Because he said it with a sense of humor? Do you not think ISFjs can have a sense of humor? The message is very typical of an ISFj and the manner in which he says it shouldn't override the actual content of the message.
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    True. I had even overlooked that.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    What do you call "the air of a ESI" then?
    An American WASP women of the 1950s I see as a good example of an ESI.

    And I don't think Butch Cassidy was best typed as SLI. I'd guess SEE. By the way.
    Yeah, that was the one I thought was a bit off. I haven't seen the film in a while.

    I suggest you don't base typings on this kind of quotes, which are obviously not even meant seriously.
    Of course it was light-hearted, but it gives a hint to the way one thinks. For example, do you think an LSE would find toilet humour remotely funny? If someone used that, then laughed immensely at their own joke, would you even think twice about casting LSE off the list?

    Question -- why did you use the term "stuck with his wife"?
    Because both he and Joanne have stuck with each other for a long time. I didn't mean "he was stuck with his wife" in a mysogynistic sense if that's what you thought I was edging towards.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    I have no idea why you would hear a quote about why someone should remain faithful in marriage and say you can't imagine an ISFj saying it, when that is a huge stereotype of them even. Because he said it with a sense of humor? Do you not think ISFjs can have a sense of humor? The message is very typical of an ISFj and the manner in which he says it shouldn't override the actual content of the message.
    Shit, I didn't even think about the fidelity behind it and how closely it's related to the ESI's sense of this.

    Apologies. I retract the quote as an argument for his not being an ESI.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra

    Of course it was light-hearted, but it gives a hint to the way one thinks. For example, do you think an LSE would find toilet humour remotely funny? If someone used that, then laughed immensely at their own joke, would you even think twice about casting LSE off the list?
    I think twice about dismissing any type based on just one piece of evidence.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Because both he and Joanne have stuck with each other for a long time. I didn't mean "he was stuck with his wife" in a mysogynistic sense if that's what you thought I was edging towards.
    Ok, fair enough.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Ezra I don't really understand, that's clearly meant as a compliment IMHO. He's saying he think his wife is better than any other women around, basically.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    What do you call "the air of a ESI" then?
    An American WASP women of the 1950s I see as a good example of an ESI.
    For the "typical" 50's woman, ESE is much more fitting than ESI. What do you mean by "WASP" woman though? Are you talking about the movie?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Ezra I don't really understand, that's clearly meant as a compliment IMHO. He's saying he think his wife is better than any other women around, basically.
    I know that. What don't you understand about my position (which is exactly the same as yours)?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    For the "typical" 50's woman, ESE is much more fitting than ESI.
    True, actually.

    What do you mean by "WASP" woman though? Are you talking about the movie?
    What, this one?



    (The poster is hilarious. What a fantastic concept.) Am I fuck, I've never even heard of that to be honest until you mentioned it.

    No, WASP is an acronym for White Anglo-Saxon Protestant.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    I'd say a typical 50's women would be more SEI, maybe even IEI. Depends on whether you emphasize the servility of the role, or the chores and responsibilities.

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    No way man, those women have to be Rational, otherwise they're shit housewives.

    The way I see it, you've got the conservative LIE man going out and doing the job, then "honey, I'm home".

    "Dinner's served," replies the woman. She must be totally ready to serve his practical needs. This is why she is an ESI. She must shut the fuck up (Fi), cook dinner (Se) and be the man's plaything (Fi).
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    The way I see it, you've got the conservative LIE man going out and doing the job, then "honey, I'm home".

    "Dinner's served," replies the woman. She must be totally ready to serve his practical needs. This is why she is an ESI. She must shut the fuck up (Fi), cook dinner (Se) and be the man's plaything (Fi).



    Ezra, this is a far more realistic portrayal of m ENTj - f ISFj duality:


    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    No way man, those women have to be Rational, otherwise they're shit housewives.
    w/ preference.

    This isn't MBTI. Quit being dumb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat


    Ezra, this is a far more realistic portrayal of m ENTj - f ISFj duality:


    Of course, yes. I read that somewhere. I think it was concerning Reinin's Victim.

    This is one thing that makes me edge away from LIE. Not because I think it looks weak or pathetic (I've already said that the thrill of the chase and having the woman think she is above you is fun), but because I doubt that's how I'd be in a relationship. Anyway, I need more experience in romantic relationships (which no one has at 18) before I come to a conclusion about whether I'm an Aggressor or a Victim (or perhaps something else that I haven't even previously given thought to).

    Another thing; it's this kind of stuff that makes me doubt LIEs can be 8s. I just can't imagine an 8 doing the whole Victim thing. It doesn't make sense to me. They'd have to be a very, very healthy 8 to do that kind of thing.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Of course, yes. I read that somewhere. I think it was concerning Reinin's Victim.
    Gulenko's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    This is one thing that makes me edge away from LIE. Not because I think it looks weak or pathetic (I've already said that the thrill of the chase and having the woman think she is above you is fun), but because I doubt that's how I'd be in a relationship. Anyway, I need more experience in romantic relationships (which no one has at 18) before I come to a conclusion about whether I'm an Aggressor or a Victim (or perhaps something else that I haven't even previously given thought to).
    Gandhi got married when he was 13. You're a loser.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Another thing; it's this kind of stuff that makes me doubt LIEs can be 8s. I just can't imagine an 8 doing the whole Victim thing. It doesn't make sense to me. They'd have to be a very, very healthy 8 to do that kind of thing.
    You see, to me the question is not whether or not LIEs fit precisely your conception of what an 8 is. It's rather whether or not any other Enneatype fits them better. Who said that every socionics type had to perfectly fit into an Enneagram type?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Gandhi got married when he was 13. You're a loser.
    Yeah, well, Gandhi liked to sleep with a harem of young girls. I'd rather be a loser than a paedo.

    You see, to me the question is not whether or not LIEs fit precisely your conception of what an 8 is. It's rather whether or not any other Enneatype fits them better. Who said that every socionics type had to perfectly fit into an Enneagram type?
    Yes, but there are many things in the LIE that contradict what an 8 is; not just my conception of one, but what an 8 is. Like, for example, there ability to physically fight. They can, if the need calls for it. And they will, because they feel comfortable fighting. But the LIE as an NT has a problem with this; they are uncomfortable with fighting. This is a straight-out contradiction.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    LIEs fit 6 quite easily, I think. They almost always have the stereotypical "outward nervousness" of 6s, and I think Fi Dual Seeking and rationality easily account for the 6s core motivations. Fe Role and Te Dominance also work well when it comes to the 6's challenging other's beliefs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    LIEs fit 6 quite easily, I think. They almost always have the stereotypical "outward nervousness" of 6s, and I think Fi Dual Seeking and rationality easily account for the 6s core motivations. Fe Role and Te Dominance also work well when it comes to the 6's challenging other's beliefs.
    The major problem I have with 6 for LIE is when I see the progression downwards (or upwards, whatever) in the levels of health. That seems to me what happens to someone with very low .
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    I know we've had this discussion before, but I'm still not sure what to think of the Levels of Health. I've only ever heard of them through that one single Enneagram site; are they a sub-theory that is widely accepted? It's not on any of the numerous other Enneagram sites I've been to, so naturally one must wonder...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    LIEs fit 6 quite easily, I think. They almost always have the stereotypical "outward nervousness" of 6s, and I think Fi Dual Seeking and rationality easily account for the 6s core motivations. Fe Role and Te Dominance also work well when it comes to the 6's challenging other's beliefs.
    The major problem I have with 6 for LIE is when I see the progression downwards (or upwards, whatever) in the levels of health. That seems to me what happens to someone with very low .
    R&H's Levels of Health aren't all-encompassing, nor are they rigid.

    Nonetheless, how does any of this contradict Ne?:

    Quote Originally Posted by Enneagram Institute
    Level 7: Fearing that they have ruined their security, they become panicky, volatile, and self-disparaging with acute inferiority feelings. Seeing themselves as defenseless, they seek out a stronger authority or belief to resolve all problems. Highly divisive, disparaging and berating others

    Level 8: Feeling persecuted, that others are "out to get them," they lash-out and act irrationally, bringing about what they fear. Fanaticism, violence.

    Level 9: Hysterical, and seeking to escape punishment, they become self-destructive and suicidal. Alcoholism, drug overdoses, "skid row," self-abasing behavior. Generally corresponds to the Passive-Aggressive and Paranoid personality disorders.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Male ISFjs are so desirable. I hope they won't mind an INFj like me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    I know we've had this discussion before, but I'm still not sure what to think of the Levels of Health. I've only ever heard of them through that one single Enneagram site; are they a sub-theory that is widely accepted? It's not on any of the numerous other Enneagram sites I've been to, so naturally one must wonder...
    R&H may be one site, but it constitutes about 80% of the Enneagram Community. It's very much an accepted theory. But a lot of people are sceptical, even those who are fans of Riso & Hudson.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    Male ISFjs are so desirable. I hope they won't mind an INFj like me.
    hm i have noticed that INFjs can fall for male ISFjs.. in fact I think my best friend who is INFj, is marrying one. (haven't pinned down his type yet).

    I do see ISFj for Paul Newman.

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    You all people need more real life experience on how LIE-ESI relationships develop. It happens that:

    - The LIE is just enough good humored to relax the ESI. He's also sufficiently good at sex to make her orgasm so that she relaxes.
    - The LIE gets money and squanders it on buying houses, going on vacation with the ESI. Otherwise the LIE would rot alone with a lot of money, and the ESI woudl rot alone trying to make some money.
    - I'm not even sure that it plays out with queen-knight stuff nowadays. I'm happy that now everything is such on more fair terms. I think all ExTx IxFx relationships play out similarly, where the ExTx does almost all the practical-money related stuff, and the IxFx is there to support morally and practically the ExTx in his pursuits. Otherwise, the ExTx would just live and empty successful life, and the IxFx would live an empty life for others. In this exact context LIE-ESI relations have to be understood.

    Ps. I think I'm LIE, and I'm not "passive" in relationship. Being "victim" is different from being passive.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    You reckon? Cool.

    I realised I made a mistake thinking 7s couldn't be rational. But they can. Brad Pitt is an LIE and a 7w6.

    You do place a fair bit of emphasis on Si for an LIE, though (e.g. in relation to your fitness and exercise).
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    He thinks it's a manifestation of his Se role

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    You all people need more real life experience on how LIE-ESI relationships develop. It happens that:

    - The LIE is just enough good humored to relax the ESI. He's also sufficiently good at sex to make her orgasm so that she relaxes.
    - The LIE gets money and squanders it on buying houses, going on vacation with the ESI. Otherwise the LIE would rot alone with a lot of money, and the ESI woudl rot alone trying to make some money.
    - I'm not even sure that it plays out with queen-knight stuff nowadays. I'm happy that now everything is such on more fair terms. I think all ExTx IxFx relationships play out similarly, where the ExTx does almost all the practical-money related stuff, and the IxFx is there to support morally and practically the ExTx in his pursuits. Otherwise, the ExTx would just live and empty successful life, and the IxFx would live an empty life for others. In this exact context LIE-ESI relations have to be understood.

    Ps. I think I'm LIE, and I'm not "passive" in relationship. Being "victim" is different from being passive.
    LOL IF YOU ARE ENTJ AND I AM ISFJ AND WE WERE BOTH GAY AND I LIVED IN ITALY OR YOU LIVED IN AMERICA WE COULD HAVE A HOMOSEXUAL DUAL RELATIONSHIP

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    You all people need more real life experience on how LIE-ESI relationships develop. It happens that:

    - The LIE is just enough good humored to relax the ESI. He's also sufficiently good at sex to make her orgasm so that she relaxes.
    - The LIE gets money and squanders it on buying houses, going on vacation with the ESI. Otherwise the LIE would rot alone with a lot of money, and the ESI woudl rot alone trying to make some money.
    - I'm not even sure that it plays out with queen-knight stuff nowadays. I'm happy that now everything is such on more fair terms. I think all ExTx IxFx relationships play out similarly, where the ExTx does almost all the practical-money related stuff, and the IxFx is there to support morally and practically the ExTx in his pursuits. Otherwise, the ExTx would just live and empty successful life, and the IxFx would live an empty life for others. In this exact context LIE-ESI relations have to be understood.

    Ps. I think I'm LIE, and I'm not "passive" in relationship. Being "victim" is different from being passive.
    LOL IF YOU ARE ENTJ AND I AM ISFJ AND WE WERE BOTH GAY AND I LIVED IN ITALY OR YOU LIVED IN AMERICA WE COULD HAVE A HOMOSEXUAL DUAL RELATIONSHIP
    omfg
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  35. #35
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Another thing; if you're LIE, FDG, how is it that you get on so shitly with Joy, who is LIE (nonetheless, this could be open to questioning, since you get on quite weel with Expat)?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  36. #36
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    You all people need more real life experience on how LIE-ESI relationships develop. It happens that:

    - The LIE is just enough good humored to relax the ESI. He's also sufficiently good at sex to make her orgasm so that she relaxes.
    - The LIE gets money and squanders it on buying houses, going on vacation with the ESI. Otherwise the LIE would rot alone with a lot of money, and the ESI woudl rot alone trying to make some money.
    - I'm not even sure that it plays out with queen-knight stuff nowadays. I'm happy that now everything is such on more fair terms. I think all ExTx IxFx relationships play out similarly, where the ExTx does almost all the practical-money related stuff, and the IxFx is there to support morally and practically the ExTx in his pursuits. Otherwise, the ExTx would just live and empty successful life, and the IxFx would live an empty life for others. In this exact context LIE-ESI relations have to be understood.

    Ps. I think I'm LIE, and I'm not "passive" in relationship. Being "victim" is different from being passive.
    LOL IF YOU ARE ENTJ AND I AM ISFJ AND WE WERE BOTH GAY AND I LIVED IN ITALY OR YOU LIVED IN AMERICA WE COULD HAVE A HOMOSEXUAL DUAL RELATIONSHIP
    ARE YOU ACTIVE OR PASSIVE?? THIS IS A REAL DEAL BREAKER IN HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONS

    Another thing; if you're LIE, FDG, how is it that you get on so shitly with Joy, who is LIE (nonetheless, this could be open to questioning, since you get on quite weel with Expat)?
    No clue.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  37. #37
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    ARE YOU ACTIVE OR PASSIVE?? THIS IS A REAL DEAL BREAKER IN HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONS
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  38. #38
    Haikus
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    ESI-Se, not SEE

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