Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 113

Thread: How do you become less serious?

  1. #1
    eunice's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    TIM
    Ne-INFj
    Posts
    2,955
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default How do you become less serious?

    I need tips on how not to take life too seriously. I think I'm getting too serious for my own good.

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    2,916
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Umm.. Don't try to do that. I think it'll make things worse.

    Ha. Seriously, I have no idea.
    INTp
    sx/sp

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    345
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'm not sure whether this will help, due to the simple fact that I don't know you in person (at least, I don't think so :wink, but ...

    1) Enjoy life and savour the simple joys (e.g. nature, spending time with family and friends, etc.)
    2) Relax, not only physically, but emotionally/spiritually as well
    3) Smile
    4) Be kind and compassionate

    Life is to be lived.

    Five/Tanzhe

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    2,916
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Wait. Don't smile if you don't want to. That'll give you unwanted stress. You don't want that.
    INTp
    sx/sp

  5. #5
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Initial reaction:

    you're going about this the wrong way Eunice

    You have to find people who want you to be serious and accept that, rather than trying to make yourself suitable to others.
    Keep in mind dualization and awakening the ego.



    Question: What exactly are you making this thread about?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  6. #6
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: How do you become less serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    I need tips on how not to take life too seriously. I think I'm getting too serious for my own good.
    You just need a good, extremely serious ESTj, who will at the same time want to tease and play with you to draw you out of seriousness from time to time.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    2,916
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I agree with UDP.
    INTp
    sx/sp

  8. #8
    meatburger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    A Quazar named Northern Territory
    Posts
    2,570
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mea
    I agree with UDP.
    Yep. Also find some ENFp's to be friends with. I tend to be very serious with my INFj friend actually. Maybe 1 out of 3 times though were in a pretty happy and silly mood. I understand what you mean though i take life too seriously aswell.
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

    "And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaļs Nin

  9. #9
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Amongst the stars
    TIM
    EII/INFj E9w1sp
    Posts
    4,078
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: How do you become less serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    I need tips on how not to take life too seriously. I think I'm getting too serious for my own good.
    What do you mean by "too serious"?
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  10. #10
    jessica129's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,122
    Mentioned
    68 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Realize that nothing really matters.....works for me at least. But then you don't get much accomplished...

  11. #11
    Creepy-bg

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129
    Realize that nothing really matters.....works for me at least. But then you don't get much accomplished...
    accomplishment is overrated

  12. #12
    meatburger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    A Quazar named Northern Territory
    Posts
    2,570
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Yeah. Just invisage yourself 6 ft underground. The protien protien strands in your head decomposing. Bacteria eating your dormant organs. Perhaps tiny creatures will feast on your cells. You will smell like cheese from the butyric acid. This will very likely happen to you in <100 years.

    So take it how you will. Fuck it nothing matters. or I dont have much time to do what i want.

    Of course most people end up somewhere in between these extremes
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

    "And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaļs Nin

  13. #13
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    As per Eunice's sig:

    Did Olivia Ong do the original "Kiss Me" song? That is a sweet song.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  14. #14
    cunnilingus epilepsy inducer
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,429
    Mentioned
    45 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    Initial reaction:

    you're going about this the wrong way Eunice

    You have to find people who want you to be serious and accept that, rather than trying to make yourself suitable to others.
    Keep in mind dualization and awakening the ego.
    Ffs. Prophecies of happiness from socionics. Believe in the theory and everything will work out on it's own?

  15. #15
    jessica129's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,122
    Mentioned
    68 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger
    The protien protien strands in your head decomposing. Bacteria eating your dormant organs. Perhaps tiny creatures will feast on your cells. You will smell like cheese from the butyric acid.
    There goes my breakfast

  16. #16
    Blaze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    5,725
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    to answer the thread question:

    hang out with alpha.

    suspend your Fi for Ne.

    go see a coen brothers movie.

    watch cartoons.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

  17. #17
    meatburger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    A Quazar named Northern Territory
    Posts
    2,570
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129
    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger
    The protien protien strands in your head decomposing. Bacteria eating your dormant organs. Perhaps tiny creatures will feast on your cells. You will smell like cheese from the butyric acid.
    There goes my breakfast
    You eat dead people for breakfast?
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

    "And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaļs Nin

  18. #18
    eunice's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    TIM
    Ne-INFj
    Posts
    2,955
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: How do you become less serious?

    Thanks for the comments and suggestions by everyone so far. I didn't have the opportunity to really sit down and post earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde
    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    I need tips on how not to take life too seriously. I think I'm getting too serious for my own good.
    What do you mean by "too serious"?
    I need extra effort to take things easy and enjoy myself because of my tendency to view life as a serious matter. I love reading and discussing about heavy topics, which is rather evident from the writings I have posted under "What's My Type?". My preference for such topics can lead to an obsession when I'm not discriminating enough, to the extent that *all* my conversations with others encompasses solely on heavy topics. Anyway, I wish that I'm more bubbly, fun-loving, crazy and unfettered like other girls, but it's difficult to get a raise out of me. :wink: I try hard to have relax and have fun, but I always feel that the good feeling I have at that moment is ephemeral, so it made me unmotivated to spend time to really let loose. Even when I attempted to just sit there and do nothing, my mind is always occupied, wondering what I should be doing tomorrow, my future plans, how should I resolve such and such problem or conflict for instance.

    @jessica and bionicgoat: I get what you mean. I'm trying to adopt a "live and let live" attitude. However, I guess I feel uncomfortable when I'm not in control just in case things don't turn up the way I have envisioned them to be.

    @meatburger: ENFps are awesome people. My friends have never known how much they have made my day just by listening to me and truly understanding what I am trying to convey.

    @UDP: Nope, Olivia Ong wasn't the original singer. I believe it was "Sixpence None the Richer". I agree that it's a very sweet song, an LII friend of mine loves it too. As for the comment about finding an ESTj, I'm waiting for the suitable one to come. I haven't been meeting any ESTj nowadays.

  19. #19
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,632
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    You still sound like an ISFj in need of some positivist emotioncreating there.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  20. #20
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: How do you become less serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    Anyway, I wish that I'm more bubbly, fun-loving, crazy and unfettered like other girls

    Why?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  21. #21
    jessica129's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,122
    Mentioned
    68 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: How do you become less serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    Anyway, I wish that I'm more bubbly, fun-loving, crazy and unfettered like other girls

    Why?
    Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. We definetly need LESS of that in the world.

  22. #22
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    SERIOUS > MERRY

    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  23. #23
    Elro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Not here
    Posts
    2,796
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    SERIOUS > MERRY

    Are you being serious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Holy mud-wrestling bipolar donkeys, Batman!

    Retired from posting and drawing Social Security. E-mail or PM to contact.


    I pity your souls

  24. #24
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Of course.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  25. #25
    Jarno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    5,375
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    Initial reaction:

    you're going about this the wrong way Eunice

    You have to find people who want you to be serious and accept that, rather than trying to make yourself suitable to others.
    Keep in mind dualization and awakening the ego.
    Exactly, don't change yourself, it's really unhealthy. I've tried it before...

  26. #26
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Eunice just needs to spend time around someone like me. I'm not being funny - I believe it would actually make her realize a certain amount of seriousness is natural for some people, and should not be changed.

    Maybe she is actually spending too much time around alpha's and beta's if she thinks she really ought to become "less serious".
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  27. #27
    PotatoSpirit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Bologna, Italy
    Posts
    637
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: How do you become less serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    I need tips on how not to take life too seriously. I think I'm getting too serious for my own good.
    I can usually help the serious people be less serious, if I enjoy their company. So I guess find someone you like from beta or alpha and spend time with them.
    LSI

  28. #28
    meatburger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    A Quazar named Northern Territory
    Posts
    2,570
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It depends on how you see the world really. I see a good argument of the world being a serious place, and for having a serious outloook.

    Theres a lot of people suffering and being exploited. Were going to die one day. Sounds like serious matters to me. To roll around in material goods and gorge yourself on fine foods and comforts is really spitting these people in the face. The lucky thing is that it is often we who are unhappy not people who live simpler lives.

    That being said, you need to enjoy yourself and to be happy. If you take things too seriously your unlikely to be as effective in the world. Its a mixture of being joyful and accepting and paying respect to how lucky we are.

    "I knew a man once who said, Death smiles at us all. All a man can do is smile back"
    - Maximus
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

    "And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaļs Nin

  29. #29
    implied's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    7,750
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    You have to find people who want you to be serious and accept that, rather than trying to make yourself suitable to others.
    Keep in mind dualization and awakening the ego.
    agree. there are plenty of people out there who actually appreciate serious people and aren't looking for someone silly. i'd appreciate someone serious, for sure. don't try to change!
    6w5 sx
    model Φ: -+0
    sloan - rcuei

  30. #30
    implied's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    7,750
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: How do you become less serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129
    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    Anyway, I wish that I'm more bubbly, fun-loving, crazy and unfettered like other girls

    Why?
    Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. We definetly need LESS of that in the world.
    the grass is always greener.

    anyhow, i basically agree w/ jessica & courage. again, there is no problem at all with being serious.
    6w5 sx
    model Φ: -+0
    sloan - rcuei

  31. #31
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: How do you become less serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    there is no problem at all with being serious.
    Absolutely.


    Your with us in Delta, Eunice!


    DELTA PRIDE
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  32. #32
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Amongst the stars
    TIM
    EII/INFj E9w1sp
    Posts
    4,078
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: How do you become less serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    I need extra effort to take things easy and enjoy myself because of my tendency to view life as a serious matter. I love reading and discussing about heavy topics, which is rather evident from the writings I have posted under "What's My Type?". My preference for such topics can lead to an obsession when I'm not discriminating enough, to the extent that *all* my conversations with others encompasses solely on heavy topics. Anyway, I wish that I'm more bubbly, fun-loving, crazy and unfettered like other girls, but it's difficult to get a raise out of me. :wink: I try hard to have relax and have fun, but I always feel that the good feeling I have at that moment is ephemeral, so it made me unmotivated to spend time to really let loose. Even when I attempted to just sit there and do nothing, my mind is always occupied, wondering what I should be doing tomorrow, my future plans, how should I resolve such and such problem or conflict for instance.
    Why do you feel you need to be bubbly and crazy? What is it you sense you are missing?
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  33. #33
    heath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    5,722
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    you just like let go man. you know, be free. but avoid stds in the process. When i try to be unrestrained it fails miserably and the girl i am trying to impress is completely unimpressed. So whatever, button it up. I'm not going to try anymore. a good friend of mine told me, "heath you are going to be alone forever." I said, "yeah probably." but then my other friend said, "yeah that's okay though, you are very productive by yourself." it's true. anyway, back to not coming here.
    asd

  34. #34
    meatburger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    A Quazar named Northern Territory
    Posts
    2,570
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    you just like let go man. you know, be free. but avoid stds in the process. When i try to be unrestrained it fails miserably and the girl i am trying to impress is completely unimpressed. So whatever, button it up. I'm not going to try anymore. a good friend of mine told me, "heath you are going to be alone forever." I said, "yeah probably." but then my other friend said, "yeah that's okay though, you are very productive by yourself." it's true. anyway, back to not coming here.
    Sorry heath. I can see peoples futures. You will have no problems in that department. Something tells me you wont read it lol

    Serious people think non serious people are like too happy, overbearing, shallow etc
    Non Serious people think serious people are stiff, booring, unoriginal etc
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

    "And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaļs Nin

  35. #35
    PotatoSpirit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Bologna, Italy
    Posts
    637
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I feel stupid... I don't understand how you guys can think serious is good: doesn't change productivity but it makes you feel worse.
    If you are worried about the world's problems, or your own, do something about it instead of "paying respect", and if you can do it while being merry, isn't that better for you?
    LSI

  36. #36
    PotatoSpirit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Bologna, Italy
    Posts
    637
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder
    Only if you think merriness is a good thing in the first place. If one was not naturally disposed to merriness, such behaviour would possibly be an indication that something was seriously wrong.
    I guess I need to rephrase: why don't you think merry is better in the first place? What good comes out of being serious?

    I agree with you guys that forcing oneself is generally not a good idea, so I guess Eunice is screwed, even though I think good company can always cheer people up.
    Still I'd like to understand why you like that seriousness about yourselves.
    LSI

  37. #37
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit
    I guess I need to rephrase: why don't you think merry is better in the first place? What good comes out of being serious?
    If you like being merry in the sense of "having fun in a particular moment", you like it because it actually raises your spirits, despite your inner thoughts and feelings. So the "merry fun" can overrule your inner thoughts and feelings, even if for a moment, and you like that.

    If you prefer being serious, it's because it doesn't work that way. "Having fun in a particular moment" does not overrule your inner thoughts and feelings, and attempts to do it just strike you as pointless and shallow. It simply does not work.

    In some not-very-pleasant periods in my life, people kept trying to drag me to parties or the like, to make me "have fun and feel better". I always declined, because I knew that not only it would not work, but my own gloominess would annoy them and make them think that I "wasn't even trying".

    So, do not think in terms of "what good comes out of it". Try to imagine that it is simply different for others, and accept it, and that your own behavior is as odd to them as theirs is to you.

    Consider this, though -- when serious people are happy, laughing, etc, it's because they really are.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  38. #38
    meatburger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    A Quazar named Northern Territory
    Posts
    2,570
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Yeah. Ive watched an ESTp and ENFj banter and it was quite comedic. They refreshed each other by laughing and pointing out stupid things etc and bagging each other and others, smiles etc.

    In contrast, an ESTj and I tend to talk about serious matters. What hes had to endure at medschool, how everyone else is going, current news matters etc.

    Im perfectly comfortable with this, i feel refreshed in fact talking to someone like minded. Its not like we never laugh etc its just more like a quiet chuckle etc. The ESTj in fact has a ESTp brother who gets really annoyed when we go into our 1 on 1 serious talk mode. When him and his friend go off on their tangents we cant really keep up as easily. Its like i will actually think what they have said is funny but my enjoyment from their little exchanges only lasts 1/5 of the time it lasts for them.
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

    "And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaļs Nin

  39. #39
    PotatoSpirit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Bologna, Italy
    Posts
    637
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    If you prefer being serious, it's because it doesn't work that way. "Having fun in a particular moment" does not overrule your inner thoughts and feelings, and attempts to do it just strike you as pointless and shallow. It simply does not work.
    Ok, so you are saying that serious people have less ability to enjoy merriness for the sake of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger
    In contrast, an ESTj and I tend to talk about serious matters. What hes had to endure at medschool, how everyone else is going, current news matters etc.
    Im perfectly comfortable with this, i feel refreshed in fact talking to someone like minded. Its not like we never laugh etc its just more like a quiet chuckle etc.
    And you are saying they have more ability to enjoy... other weird stuff (c:

    I think combining the two I understand, and Thunder's post seems to point to the same thing.
    LSI

  40. #40
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit
    Ok, so you are saying that serious people have less ability to enjoy merriness for the sake of it.
    The word "ability" still has the bias of your own point of view all over it.

    Why not say "less need" or "less inclination" or "less desire"? With "ability", you are implying it's something desirable. For you, yes. Not necessarily to others.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •